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New Day

Possible Bomb on Russian Plane; Impact Your World: Basketball Star Lends Hand to Mentally Ill; Mental Health Crisis Act Pushes for Reform. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 05, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:33:38] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: It's a matter of public record that ISIL Sinai have claimed that they brought the aircraft down. As I said earlier, looking at the totality of the information we have, we judge that there is a significant possibility that this could have been an explosive device.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, well that was British foreign secretary and he suggested a bomb may have downed the Russian plane. If true, the takedown of that jetliner would be the most significant terror attack, experts say, since 9/11 on western interests. So let's turn to Robert Pape. He's the director of the Chicago Project on Terrorism at the University of Chicago.

Professor, it's great to have you here. I know you've been following this threads very closely. What theory do you most believe brought down this plane?

ROBERT PAPE, DIRECTOR, CHICAGO PROJECT ON TERRORISM: I think it was most likely a bomb. And I think it was most likely a bomb by ISIS. It's important to understand that planes are so fragile that even a very small bomb, something the size of a grenade, something the size of a cell phone is more than enough to bring down an airliner. A small hole, a small explosion, when a plane is traveling so fast at such high altitude can rip a hole in the fuselage and then the wind pressure can do the rest to essentially disintegrate the plane.

[08:35:00] CAMEROTA: Now, until this moment -

PAPE: And pretty much from the -

CAMEROTA: I'm so - sorry to interrupt. But until this moment, intelligence experts had been saying that they didn't think that ISIS had the capability to do something like plant a bomb on a plane. So why now are we - are we so certain that this -- they could be doing it?

PAPE: Well, I'm not sure how we got the idea that there was a shoulder fired missile involved. ISIS never claimed, from the beginning on Saturday, that it used a shoulder fired missile. As far as I can tell, that was a theory floated by the Russians. ISIS claimed from the beginning, from its first statements, and continues to claim that they brought the plane down and they maintain they're not going to tell us how. If you read their statements closely, you'll see that they don't say they used a shoulder fired missile. They give the impression that they bombed the plane. And every bit of evidence that we have from U.S. satellites, from the flight recorder that we have appears to confirm that in fact that's what happened.

CAMEROTA: You study terrorism and terror tactics. You have for a long time. So is this a game changer? If ISIS, which we, you know, just a year ago saw as this rag tag small band of terrorists that couldn't do something international, if they were able to get a bomb on a plane, is this a game changer in terms of their strategy and how we see them?

PAPE: This is a major game changer because for over a year many people in the United States, politicians on the right and the left, have been calling for pouring more military forces or doing more military against ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Well the Russians finally did that. And what we have seen is that the more military intervention occurs, the more ISIS makes it a priority to kill civilians from those states. And we've already seen attacks against the French in Paris. We've already seen attacks against the Canadians in Ottawa. And what we now see is that ISIS appears to have found a way to slip a bomb on a plane. And this should be a very important wakeup call for people that have been complaining that we're not doing enough military.

Obama's strategy has been the right strategy, which is to contain and slowly roll back ISIS. It is actually working. And it's a strategy that doesn't provoke the group to kill hundreds of Americans in retaliation.

CAMEROTA: But, professor, hold on a second. I mean, if they're bringing down commercial airlines with 224 passengers on board, they hardly seem contained. You can't say that just because ISIS has said that they're going to retaliate for military intervention, that you shouldn't do any more military intervention.

PAPE: The key issue is what provokes the group into bringing down civilian airliners. And what we can see over the pattern of the group's attacks is that it's not just simply a matter of whether the groups have the capability. Groups really do decide whether they want to invest the extra resources to attack certain targets. And they make that decision on the basis of, who is their most important enemy. Up until now, ISIS' most important enemy has been the Baghdad government or it's been the government in Syria. Once Russia intervened to prop up Assad, suddenly Russia became enemy number one. And within weeks, what you see are the deaths of over 200 Russian civilians. So my point is not that they are incapable of bringing them down. My point is that they almost always have some serious capability to kill westerners and to kill Americans. What changes the outcome is whether they're truly motivated to do it.

CAMEROTA: Robert Pape, thanks for sharing your years of expertise with us. We appreciate you being on NEW DAY.

Let's get over to Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a situation that we see consistently here in the U.S. and around the world is what we should do about mental health. Well, the first real federal legislation on this level since the sixties is getting some traction but also is kind of not getting traction. We're going to speak with a lawmaker behind the bill. He will make the case. He is Representative Tim Murphy, and we will test it ahead.

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[08:43:15] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, it's the Thursday edition of the five things to know for your new day.

At number one, U.S. and British intelligence suggesting an ISIS bomb brought down a Metrojet flight from Egypt to Russia last week, but the Russians and Egyptians pushing back. Egypt's president meeting with British Prime Minister David Cameron right now.

Marco Rubio denying allegations that he used a Republican Party American Express card to pay for personal expenses during his days as Florida's house speaker. He's promised to release those credit card statements soon.

Harsh words in a new biography from former President George H.W. Bush about two key figures from his son's administration, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. The elder Bush told biographer - his biographer that Cheney, as vice president, quote, "built his own empire" inside the White House.

Investigators are trying to determine what prompted a stabbing spree at a California campus. Four people attacked at U.C. Merced, just outside of San Francisco. The suspect was gunned down by police.

NBC now apologizing after accidentally releasing an "SNL" promo clip of Donald Trump calling Ben Carson, quote, "a complete loser." Carson, for his part, equated the attack to grade school antics.

And remember you can always get more on the five things by visiting newdaycnn.com.

Well, dealing with a mental illness certainly is tough. One former WNBA star who knows that all too well is using her love for basketball to help others in despair. It's all part of today's "Impact Your World."

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PEREIRA (voice-over): Once dubbed the female Michael Jordan, Chamique Holdsclaw dominated women's basketball. On the court she had the focus of a champion, but off Holdsclaw spent decades in what she calls a "mental prison."

[08:45:02] CHAMIQUE HOLDSCLAW, FORMER WNBA PLAYER: I was feeling like these extreme like highs and lows. And when you're a star of a team, you tend to sweep things under the rug. PEREIRA: The National Alliance on Mental Illnesses says one in five

Americans live with a mental disorder but most don't seek treatment.

HOLDSCLAW: Ultimately sweeping things under the rug, you explode.

911 CALLER: The lady's name is Chamique Holdsclaw.

PEREIRA: Holdsclaw made headlines when she took a baseball bat to her ex-girlfriend's SUV and shot out one of the windows.

After a decade of being misdiagnosed, Holdsclaw found out then she was bipolar. Holdsclaw is now an advocate for mental health.

HOLDSCLAW: I realize once I opened my mouth and said that I struggle with this, I realize a lot of people are going through same thing.

I had the same size feet. As a 12-year-old, my feet haven't grown. So imagine these feet.

PEREIRA: She started a foundation and a program called Mentally Driven.

HOLDSCLAW: What I try to do is I use basketball as a decoy. I bring them in, I get them talking about their emotions and feelings. We champion for cancer. We champion for heart disease. We need to champion for mental health awareness because it's affecting a lot of people and taking a lot of lives.

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CUOMO: 11 hours of debate last night on this Helping Families in Mental Health Crisis Act. But it managed to pass in a House subcommittee. The bill is to make for major reforms to mental health care that many say the system itself is flawed and needs to be changed.

[08:50:06] But why 11 hours of debate? Why hasn't this happened already? Critics of the bill say they are going take away rights from patients suffering from mental illness, they will chill treatment even more by eliminating privacy protection that's supposed to be granted to all patients in the form of the HIPAA laws.

Here now is the bill's sponsor, Pennsylvania Congressman Tim Murphy - he's got a lot of cosponsors also - and he is co-chair of the Congressional Mental Health Caucus.

Congressman, you know, open disclosure. We've been dialoguing about this bill for a long time. It seems like an objective good. It has its naysayers. They do focus on the issue of privacy, that if you are to erode any of the protections, people will seek care even less, that mentally ill shouldn't just because they're mentally ill have their information free to their families or anyone else. It is a slippery slope. Make the case. REP. TIM MURPHY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Well it is absurd. Look, the issue

is when a parent is trying to find out why their son our daughter just tried to commit suicide or why they are having other problems, and doctors cannot even engage in any compassionate communication to tell family members what happened, why someone with schizophrenia is getting worse, that they may have diabetes, they may have heart disease.

We have closed the door so much under this perverted guise that somehow the best a person can ever be is what they are and that a family cannot help. It's gone too far. All we're asking for is the ability to have compassionate communication between a doctor and a caregiver when, when that person with serious mental illness is in this downward spiral of decay and oftentimes living in their own filth and squalor. Can't we find some way of engaging the family back in?

And when it comes to rights I go back to this point of Adam Lanza ,who did the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School. We talk about his rights to be sick. Shouldn't we talk about the rights of those children to make it beyond kindergarten and go to first grade? Or the people to feel safe in theater in Aurora, Colorado, or in a campus in California? We need to be talking about a person's right to get well and not just their right to be sick.

CUOMO: How would this bill stop someone like a Lanza?

MURPHY: It would stop them because it invests a lot of action, a lot of money and programs in identifying someone early on, particularly in the phases of life when they are most at-risk for serious mental illness. At age 14, 50 percent of cases by 24, 75 percent of cases. Invest dollars in real mental health intervention. The federal government has been spending billions over the years in silly programs that have nothing to do with serious mental illness. So it would do that.

It would also allow two doctors to see someone in that same day. It is even absurd that we have to argue that point. More hospital beds for those who are seriously mentally ill. More research in the area of serious mental illness.

But note what I'm saying. We have funding in there to handle the whole spectrum of issues, but get out of areas of behavioral wellness and more into helping those who are ill. And this issue of being able to have some communication with the family member is very important, particularly given this idea. When you are dealing with someone with mental illness, such as schizophrenia or bipolar, their way of viewing, their way of thinking is very different. It is not the same as talking to someone who is of sound mind.

CUOMO: Well, look -- There are going to be people who are surprised to hear this bill is being held up. If anything, it seems like politicians are blaming the mental health community too much for violence in this country. You know very well, and you should know at home, Representative Tim Murphy is not just a politician. He was a clinician. He understands this area. He treats people. So of course the mentally ill are less likely to be perpetrators of crime than the rest of the population. More likely to be victims. We know all those things. But it seems like the political will is there to make a difference. We hear it every time there is a mass shooting but then this bill you keep calling me and saying I can't get my bill done. Where's the disconnect?

MURPHY: Well the disconnect is I think people still want to block these issues. 83 percent of the American public say in order to stop some of these shootings, we need to be addressing this mental health issue and not just be talking about guns. Let's talk about what's in their heads and not just what's in their hands. We recognize a person who is seriously mentally ill is 15 times less likely to be involved in act of violence if they are in treatment. That's what we have to do.

CUOMO: That's the 'if'. If they are in treatment.

MURPHY: If they are in treatment. And that means more treatment opportunities. And sometimes, Chris, it really is a matter of providing those services. But in some cases you have to compel that person to be in treatment. That means sometimes inpatient and sometimes outpatient treatment. And that is another area too where people say well we shouldn't ever be coercing people into treatment. The Navy Yard shootings would never have happened if the people at the hospitals and the police who were involved with that perpetrator would have said this guy needs to get help. States like yours in New York has an excellent program for that.

[08:55:08] CUOMO: Congressman, we've said it before, we'll say it again. Some people say it is playing politics when you get involved with these bills, but this seems like an objective need. It seems to come up again and again. We will stay on the story. Please, sir, let us know how the fight goes.

MURPHY: Thank you. We'll keep working at it.

CUOMO: So we're going from what we need to do to change to, oh what a dose of "The Good Stuff" for you. Stay with us.

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CUOMO: If only you knew what happens the moments before the light goes on.

PEREIRA: Nothing happens here.

CUOMO: "Good Stuff." Meet Collin Clarke. 22 years old. He has Down syndrome but this is so cool. He has had a lifelong dream of competitive body building. He works. You got to check him out online. So how did he get there? Coaching. Collin was working at the gym behind the desk, he would sneak away to imitate trainer Gary Ubelhorse (ph). He would watch his routines. He didn't think Gary was watching, but Gary was. So he fired him. No. Gary agreed to train Collin completely gratis.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh! Look at the before and after!

CUOMO: That was a year and 60 pounds ago.

CAMEROTA: Oh, that's great.