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GOP Candidates Square Off in Debate; Jeb Bush's Campaign Manager Discusses Performance; Kasich Sounds Off on Trump's Immigration Policy. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired November 11, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: If Republicans join Democrats as the party of amnesty, we will lose.

[07:00:03] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Foreign policy also a flash point between candidates, including a Rand Paul citing.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that Rand is a committed isolationalist. I'm not.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How is it conservative to add a trillion-dollar expenditure for the federal government, which you don't pay for?

BERMAN: The Kentucky senator, not a big factor in previous debates, had a no love lost exchange with Marco Rubio.

RUBIO: I know that the world is a safer and better place when America is the strongest military power in the world. I do not think we are any safer from bankruptcy court.

BERMAN: Jeb Bush had admitted he had to show up big, and he was certainly a bigger presence than before.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Donald, for allowing me to speak at the debate. That's really nice of you. I really appreciate that.

BERMAN: He butted heads with Donald Trump on ISIS.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it 100 percent.

BUSH: Donald is wrong on this. He is absolutely wrong on this. We're not going to be the world's policeman, but we sure as heck better be the world's leader.

BERMAN: Ben Carson, out front in some polls, continued to seem content to sit back on the debate stage, though he did reference recent media questions in the claims he has made about his past.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you for not asking me what I said in the tenth grade. I appreciate that.

I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about and then putting that out there as truth.

BERMAN: Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz continued to show their debate stage polish with notable one-liners.

CRUZ: There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the Bible. And not a one of them is as good.

RUBIO: For the life of me, I don't know why we have stigmatized vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.

BERMAN: And Carly Fiorina and Donald Trump with new proof they will not be friends.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He quit talking when it was time to quit talking.

PAUL: Can I finish with my time? Can I finish with my time?

TRUMP: Why does she keep interrupting everybody? Boy, terrible.

BERMAN: There were sparks, too, in the undercard debate. Just- demoted Chris Christie tried to turn the focus to Hillary Clinton a lot.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton, and Secretary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton.

Wait till you see what Hillary Clinton will do to this country and how she will drown us in debt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting with Chris Christie, because a lot of people said he really did shine at that undercard debate. He took the most advantage of the time he had, much more time than he's had before. But is it enough to break through when so many people are on the bigger stage making their points? It will be interesting to see what happens over the next four weeks before the next big debate, our debate, the CNN Republican debate in Las Vegas.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: I like that. You're already teasing it. Very good.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The definitive debate they're calling it.

BERMAN: I think so. This was really just, you know, an undercard to the big debate.

CAMEROTA: An appetizer.

BERMAN: You bet.

CUOMO: All right. So you're going to hear a lot about Jeb Bush today. Why? Because there's a lot of expectations hanging over the former governor. That's why.

And you are hearing people saying he did better last night than in previous debates. But was he better enough? Let's discuss with someone who better make that case, campaign manager Danny Diaz for Mr. Bush.

Hello, Mr. Campaign Manager. How are you feeling this morning? Why are you in a better situation than you were yesterday?

DANNY DIAZ, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR JEB BUSH: Well, thanks, Chris.

I mean, look, last night Governor Bush talked about and showed why he's the most prepared person to be president of the United States. He litigated the case against Hillary Clinton, showed unparalleled depth and mastery, control of the issues, both domestic and foreign. And you know, Governor Bush talked about how his policies relate to real people. So, you know, we appreciated the opportunity, and we move into Iowa today to do the same thing in front of voters.

CUOMO: You can say this is a cursory indicator. But still, going into the debate last night, the main Google search for your candidate was, is he still running? And it didn't really move throughout the course of it. What is your message to people who are questioning his relevance?

DIAZ: We're going to be picking a president in the coming months, and Governor Bush is the most prepared person to be president. He has the strongest conservative record of accomplishment. He has the most profound and significant ideas from a policy perspective on how to move this country forward. And he's somebody that will be able to lead this country in a way that achieves high sustained economic growth, that takes the fight to ISIS and that mends a broken Washington.

CUOMO: He has been saying that for a long time. It has not connected yet. What is the fix for you in terms of having him connect? Should he be coming on a show like NEW DAY? You know, the invitation stands outright to have you even greater to have him. What do you do to help that resonate?

DIAZ: We know from all our work that the more that people learn about Governor Bush's record, the more that they're going to support it. so we need to continue to work. You know, half of New Hampshire voters, frankly, are going to decide in the last week of the election.

So you know, there are 80 plus days before the caucuses. And we need to continue to work to get in front of voters. And once it becomes time to pick a president, we're very, very confident that the person that voters will side with is Governor Bush.

[07:05:05] CUOMO: You know, we had a poll out a couple days ago that we were talking about that showed, actually, the opposite statistically, that the more people hear about Jeb Bush, the less they are clinging to his campaign. Is that about the man, or the message or both? DIAZ: You know, you can cite that poll. I can cite another poll.

But the reality is this is a very consequential time. Voters are looking for someone who has a track record of having done the job. We have anemic economic growth. As governor of Florida, Florida was able to achieve over 4 percent growth with Governor Bush. He has a plan for high sustained economic growth that can get this country moving (ph) again, that can help middle class families.

Just as importantly, he can go to Washington and up-end the status quo that really isn't working for anyone. He has a track record of having that in Florida. So you know, first and foremost, taking on the debt, taking on the outrageous spending.

So once we get to that portion of the debate, we feel very, very confident. We thought last night was a good investment in the conversation. We were able to highlight points such as those in front of millions of Americans, and we continue to do it.

CUOMO: Ignored Rubio just about all night last night. Stark departure from what seemed to be the strategy in the last debate. Why?

DIAZ: You know, once again, this was a serious debate about serious issues. It was substantive; it was policy oriented. I think it worked for everybody, and including the audience, particularly.

So we look forward to that opportunity. We look forward to your debate, obviously, in the coming weeks as you opened with. And we think that this is an important, serious conversation and it should be reflected on the stage. And we thought that was true last night.

CUOMO: Were you surprised at the perception of how it hurt the governor to go after the senator?

DIAZ: Look, I think this is a presidential contest. Everybody's record is going to be examined. There are certainly differences between the candidates, and that's going to be part of the conversation. It's a reality in presidential politics. People are measured by what they've done. It's a way to grade the integrity of their promises going forward.

And once again, we enter this debate as the most accomplished conservative reformer on the stage with the most significant ideas on how to up-end Washington, stop the outrageous spending, to get the economy moving again, to beat the terrorists, to exude American leadership abroad. And we feel when it comes time to pick a president, Jeb Bush is going to be the man to stand head and shoulders above the rest.

CUOMO: So when is the governor going to come on and talk issues with us, Danny, so we can give the American people...?

DIAZ: Very soon.

CUOMO: ... a good look. The invitation is always open. You can come, too. You can sit right next to him if you want to. We just want to get this conversation going.

Danny Diaz, thanks for joining us this morning. Good luck going forward.

DIAZ: Thanks, man.

CUOMO: All right. We'll continue to discuss the debate throughout the morning. You heard what the Jeb Bush perspective is. We're going to get the GOP candidate Chris Christie perspective from his own mouth, live, coming up, Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Let's give you a look at some other headlines right now.

President Obama is taking the fight over immigration reform to the Supreme Court. The highest court in the land will now be asked to decide whether the president can use his executive authority to grant work permits and protection from deportation to nearly 5 million undocumented immigrants. On Monday, a federal appeals court in New Orleans ruled the president had overstepped his authority.

One hundred six people now indicted in connection with that spring shootout between rival biker gangs in Waco, Texas. Those defendants all accused of engaging in organized criminal activity. Nine people were killed in that shootout. Police recovered some 480 weapons after it was all over. The incident actually involved 177 bikers. There are 71 cases that are still yet to be presented to the grand jury.

DraftKings, FanDuel, both ordered to stop accepting bets in New York state. The state's attorney general, Eric Schneiderman, deciding the daily fantasy sites are illegal gambling operations. He is now ordering them to cease and desist in the state of New York. A spokesman for DraftKings calls the ruling disappointing and says that the company is reviewing its options. An estimated 56 million Americans play fantasy sports.

The big question is, of course, if it happens here in New York, is it going to have sort of a ripple effect in other states across the country?

CUOMO: You know, look, they made hay of it in the debate. But I've got a news flash for you. This is a real issue that's going on with that. The state doesn't just tell you to stop doing business there if there's not an issue. Is it as big as ISIS? Maybe not. But that doesn't mean anything.

CAMEROTA: No, that's the question. Harmless fun or illegal gambling? So that's the line.

CUOMO: Right. The New York attorney general will give you an opinion.

PEREIRA: Well, John Kasich looking to gain traction in the Republican race, engaging in a bitter exchange with Donald Trump over immigration. The question is, will it help? We spoke to the Ohio governor after he left the stage last night. You'll hear it, next. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For the 11 million people...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:13:23] PEREIRA: The Republican debate last night in Milwaukee certainly had its share of fiery exchanges. One unforgettable moment: John Kasich and Donald Trump sparring over immigration.

Chief political correspondent Dana Bash caught up with the Ohio governor fresh off the stage right after the debate. What did he have to say, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is one of the most fascinating divides, not just on the stage but, of course, in the Republican Party. The issue of immigration.

And you know, for several years, Republicans who had wanted to get the party's nomination, they were basically scared to say anything along the lines of what John Kasich said last night. Which is, to defy those in the party who say send them all back, those who have Donald Trump's position.

And so I asked John Kasich about the fact that he engaged with Trump last night. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: I just want to start by asking you about your moment with Donald Trump. You were clearly itching to get in and talk about the fact that you believe that his idea of deporting the undocumented immigrants is pie in the sky.

KASICH: Well, we're not going to go and round people up, 11 million people and drag them out of their homes and ship them across the border. It's an absurd thought. And it's those kinds of things, really, that frankly would give Hillary a great chance to be able to win.

I think we're going to start to see them backing off. In the last debate I challenged one of the candidates about saying he wanted to abolish Medicare, and then he backed off of that.

And so I'm just going to make as much a contribution by also talking about what I'm for, Dana. And at the same time, we've got to be clear that we have a very solid program, because Hillary Clinton won't be easy; but we'll beat her with a solid program.

[17:15:08] BASH: I don't -- you don't really think that Donald Trump is going to back off of his much-talked-about plan to try to get rid of the undocumented immigrants? KASICH: Well, I would hope so, because it is not -- it's not possible

to do what he's talking about. And you know, maybe for a while he'll stay with it but, you know, this is not a tenable position for anybody.

I mean, look, if somebody broke the law, they've got to go to jail or be deported. But to be in a position where we're going to go grab people out of their homes, and leave children there and frighten them, that's not America.

Now, we do have to protect the border. And if anybody comes across, we've got to send them back. But at this point, going -- if they're law-abiding, they'll pay a penalty. They'll have to assimilate. But they can live in this country not as citizens but with a legal status.

CAMEROTA: You are trying very hard to get in throughout the debate, really aggressively trying to sort of have a voice. Do you feel that you were successful with that?

KASICH: Well, yes, I got to go around the world in foreign policy. I got to talk about my budget plans. I got to talk about economic programs and to warn the Republicans that we have to be realistic about what our package is in the fall, next fall, so we can win.

So I thought it was a good debate. I thought the moderators did a good job. But none of us ever feel we get enough time. And hopefully, as I move closer and closer to the center, I'll get more time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, it wasn't just John Kasich and Donald Trump that got into it on the issue of immigration. Jeb Bush jumped in and basically echoed what John Kasich was saying, that if Republicans continued to have that kind of rhetoric and policy on immigration, that you're basically handing the election to Democrats, because Hispanics will continue to vote largely on the Democratic side.

And then you saw Ted Cruz say, "No, no, no, the way to do this is to stick to principle, is to make sure that there is not, in his words, amnesty in this country." So it really was a fascinating discussion, again, that showed the real divide on that stage on this issue.

CAMEROTA: And so interesting...

BASH: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: ... to get your post-debate impressions from the candidates. Dana, thanks so much for sharing that.

All right. We want to bring in now Matt Lewis. He's our conservative commentator and senior contributor for "The Daily Caller," as well as Ryan Lizza, CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker." Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. We want to get your impressions of the highs and the lows. And Matt, I want to start with you, because you think that the best

moment of the night was this testy exchange between Marco Rubio and Rand Paul on military spending. So let's play that, and then we'll talk to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: How is it conservative to add a trillion dollars in military expenditures? You cannot be a conservative if you're going to keep promoting new programs that you're not going to pay for.

RUBIO: If I may respond. We can't even have an economy if we're not safe. There are radical jihadists in the Middle East beheading people and crucifying Christians. A radical Shia cleric in Iran trying to get a nuclear weapon. The Chinese taking over the South China Sea.

Yes, I believe the world is a safer -- no, no, I don't believe, I know that the world is a safer and better place when America is the strongest military power in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Matt, who got the best out of that argument?

MATT LEWIS, CNN COMMENTATOR: I think both candidates got the best out of it. I think that it really highlighted the lanes that they're in, Rand Paul had a very good night. For the first time, he really owned his brand of being an anti-interventionist libertarian. And I think he really did quite well.

And there's a segment of the Republican base that wants to hear we're weary and wants to hear that message. But I think Rubio also did very well. And I think it was just a very substantive discussion that really represented the kind of disparate wings within the conservative movement of the Republican Party.

CUOMO: Ryan, we had the campaign manager and Eric Cantor on, both obviously supporters for Jeb Bush. They say he showed his mettle. He showed that he is the man last night. Can you put any meat on those bones? What did you see?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think he had a better debate than he's had previously, but, you know, boy, there were high expectations for him to get in there and shake things up.

And frankly, I don't think he -- he didn't have a whole lot of time. He had a couple of good moments, but I think it's pretty much status quo coming out of that debate for Jeb Bush. I don't think he hurt himself, necessarily, but he probably did not have the sort of moments he needed to sort of shake things up and move much in the polls.

I agree completely with Matt on that exchange. I think it was one of three exchanges where you really had a good substantive debate about the differences among these candidates on a big issue.

Probably from my view, the best debate for Rand Paul so far, he really has not been a big player in the previous debates. And he finally had a chance to sort of stand there and make sort of his substantive case on foreign policy which, as Matt points out, is very different than most of the other Republicans.

[07:20:09] CAMEROTA: Matt, we've talked quite a bit in the past few days about Ben Carson, and there was some question about whether or not the moderators would ask him about the discrepancies in his personal narrative. And in fact, the moderator, Neil Cavuto, did ask him about that, whether or not the questions were affecting sort of the impression of Carson as trustworthy. So here is Ben Carson's response to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: The fact of the matter is, you know, what we -- we should vet all candidates. I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about, and then putting that out there as truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Matt, what did you think? Is he confusing being vetted with being lied about? Because who is lying about Ben Carson?

LEWIS: Well, look, I think you make a really good point. CNN's reporting, for example, did not say that he did not stab somebody. It said we've not been able to corroborate or find anybody that witnessed this or can verify it. So I think he is sort of conflating it there to his benefit.

I actually think that he had a -- generally, a pretty good answer to it. I'll take a sort of contrarian viewpoint, though. I think Carson might have benefited from staying part of the story. We had a few days where he was sort of dominating news cycles. He was going up against the mainstream media, liberal media bias. I think it actually was helping him.

And last night, because FOX Business was really trying to be substantive and not ask the gotcha questions, Carson just had that one question. And I think in a way, he was not the center of the discussion. I think it probably hurt him.

CUOMO: Let's play what was supposedly a big night for Ted Cruz. He had a moment last night talking about immigration, where he tried to, like, have a combo effect. It wasn't just about amnesty anymore. He wanted to move to the economics and he also wanted to play to the politics of perception here, which meant coming at the media. He really wrapped it up all in one. Let's put it out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: The Democrats are laughing. Because if Republicans join Democrats as the party of amnesty, we will lose. And you know, I understand that, when the mainstream media covers immigration, it doesn't often see it as an economic issue. I will say the politics of it would be very, very different if a bunch of lawyers or bankers were crossing the Rio Grande.

Or if a bunch of people with journalism degrees were coming over and driving down the wages in the press. Then we would see stories about the economic calamity that is befalling our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, this may be unfair, but it seems to me, Ryan, that that is a suggestion that the immigrant population's lower wages, that is demonstrably false. So what is your take away from that kind of point? How does it help him? What's the plus/minus?

LIZZA: Well, as you point out, it's not accurate. Right? So the jobs that most undocumented immigrants are taking are jobs that most Americans don't want.

And so, we can look at all the economic data on this. It's not something that is harming that population.

I do think he's right, absolutely, if white-collar jobs were threatened by illegal immigrants, you'd probably see a lot more conversation about it among white-collar reporters and all the rest. It's a good line.

You know, Cruz on immigration, he -- he's treading a careful line here, right? He's not going -- he's against amnesty. He's using sort of what's popular in the Republican primaries.

I notice that he did not embrace Donald Trump's plan of mass deportation. Donald Trump really out there on the edge on this issue, talking about rounding up millions of people, pushed back very hard. John Kasich and Jeb Bush pushed back very hard against that.

Cruz was careful not to get in the middle of that. He switched over to the line you just showed. And I think at some point he's going to have to be pressed on that and asked whether he embraces a really quite radical plan that Trump is talking about, you know, shipping the 11 million people out of the country.

CAMEROTA: So, Matt, did anything change the playing field last night, including Chris Christie's performance, which many said was very strong in the undercard debate?

LEWIS: Christie did well. I think Rand Paul did well. I think it was mostly a status quo debate. It was a good debate; it was substantive. I don't see any huge shifts.

The one thing that I would keep an eye on, though, that I'm starting to sense, is the emergence of a looming Ted Cruz versus Marco Rubio battle. A lot of us believe that eventually when -- if and/or when Donald Trump and Ben Carson sort of fade away, you're going to have the big sort of clash be Cruz versus Marco Rubio. And Cruz is starting to lay the groundwork for attacking Rubio on amnesty and sugar subsidies. We saw that last night.

[07:25:12] CAMEROTA: All right. There you go. CUOMO: All right, fellows. We'll see how it shakes out. There will be plenty of measurement of what resonated and what didn't. We'll move from there. Please come back again.

And let's start that resonance response. What do you think? Tweet us using the hashtag #NewDayCNN or post your comment on Facebook.com/NewDay. I remind you, as always, it's Alisyn with a "Y."

CAMEROTA: I will be happy to read your comments.

CUOMO: You can default to me when you can't get her, you get frustrated, and you double down on the nasty.

CAMEROTA: Now accepting compliments. Go ahead.

PEREIRA: The placement of the "Y" is key, though, too.

CUOMO: It is. It's also very tricky.

PEREIRA: All right. Up next, we'll have on the GOP debate. And also, news of an alleged plot to set off a race war foiled by the FBI. We're going to tell you who was behind this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Egyptian officials are confirming that the NTSB will join the investigation of Metrojet Flight 9268. This will give the U.S. a direct look at the evidence for the first time. This as U.S. officials familiar with the latest intelligence tell CNN it's possible the terrorists planted a bomb with a timer on that plane.