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New Day

GOP Candidates Face Off in Fourth Debate; Real Voters React to Fourth GOP Debate. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 11, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Nine people on board that plane died. No one on the ground was injured.

PEREIRA: Egyptian officials confirming that the NTSB will join the investigation of Metrojet Flight 9268 as U.S. officials with the latest intelligence tell CNN jihadists likely planted a bomb with a timer on that doomed plane.

President Obama will lay a wreath later this morning at Arlington National Cemetery. On this Veterans Day he'll call on Congress to pass sweeping new laws to benefit our fighting men and women, past and present.

And, of course, you can get more on the five things to know by visiting newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Mic.

So right now Donald Trump is following up on last night's debate by having his own politics and (INAUDIBLE) event in Manchester, New Hampshire. Let's see what he's talking about.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can we call the election for tomorrow? You know, in some countries, the prime ministers, you know, if he's popular at the time, he says, we are calling for our election on Tuesday. I love that. Maybe we can change the laws so we can do that. But we have about 90 days and that's not a lot.

You know, when we started this quest, it was a year and a half. And then I said, all right, will I do it? Will I do it? You know it takes a lot of courage to do it. It really does. It's hard. It's a hard thing do, especially, you know, all my life I've heard if you're a successful person, if you're a very successful person, you can't run for the office of president. The scrutiny, the difficulty, the horror show, your family gets so exposed and, you know, they've never done this before and I've never been a politician before. I've dealt with politicians all my life. I love dealing with politicians, but I've never done this before. And who would have thought this was going to happen, in all fairness?

But people see what's going on. And, you know, my family has been so good. In fact, I brought my two sons. Where are they? Oh, come here. Come on up here. I should - I have to show off my sons. I have to show them off. I'm proud of them. This is Don Junior and Eric and - come on, say a couple of things. Hey, you know I flew in. I had about an hour and a half of sleep. So do you know what I say to my boys? Say a few words.

DON TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: Well, it's great to be here. Thank you so much -

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: There you go. You're listening now to Donald Trump's sons talk about him in an impromptu calling to the podium. I'm sure they really appreciated that - that moment that he called them up. Trump, of course, is in New Hampshire this morning at this breakfast event. And he just talked about how little sleep he got last night.

So was he the winner? What did he do last night in the debate? Our political panel will be here, including Ana Navarro on Jeb Bush's performance. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:23] CAMEROTA: Last night, the eight leading Republicans went head-to-head on the mainly stage. So who won? And did Jeb Bush accomplish what he had to? Let's bring in our stellar panel of CNN political commentators, S.E. Cupp, Van Jones and Ana Navarro. Ana is a Jeb Bush supporter and a good friend of Marco Rubio.

So let's start there, Ana. I think it's fair to say after the other debates in the past weeks you were sort of glum the following morning. How are you feeling this morning?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sleepy but not glum. Listen, I think Jeb did what he had to do last night. I think he stopped the bleeding. He is off life support. It was a - you know, it was a nerve wracking night for those of us who support him because had he gone on that stage then and sucked wind again like he did in the last one, it really would have been rough and they would have been ugly. He didn't. He, I think, had - was forceful. He answered the questions. He was good on policy. He had a very good debate. The best he's had out of the four debates so far, when he really needed it. So I was very happy with his performance.

CUOMO: All right. So then we get to the big issue of the night, which was arguably immigration, S.E. And you saw Donald Trump representing one side, Cruz representing that same side but with more of a legal, political bent, and then you have Rubio and others being more what they would call reasonable about it in their own words. Let's play what Donald Trump did last night. He gave his best defense of why his plan is the best.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president. People liked him. I like Ike, right, the expression, I like Ike. Moved a million and a half illegal immigrants out of this country. Moved them just beyond the border. They came back. Moved them again beyond the border. They came back. Didn't like it. Moved them way south. They never came back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Do you want that to be the analogy for the GOP in terms of why you should take immigrants and put them back the way Eisenhower did?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. Look, anyone, you know, who wants to go back in history and research what was called as operation wetback will - will see that it was incredibly inhumane. It might have been effective momentarily, but it certainly should not be the model. And I think what Jeb Bush did really well last night was outline how impossible it is to return 11 million people humanely. If we don't care about them at all, I'm sure we could dump them somewhere like Eisenhower did. But it's really impractical and it's not the way to win the nomination either. That's why his reference to Hillary Clinton and the Democrats sort of high-fiving, I think, was right on.

So, Donald Trump, actually, I thought, didn't land that punch last night as he's usually capable of doing. He had Jeb Bush and Kasich sort of piling on, on his immigration point. And I just don't think he was able to effectively land that punch last night.

CAMEROTA: So let's listen to Jeb Bush's retort and how he said Donald Trump's plan is so untenable. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Twelve million illegal immigrants, to send them back, 500,000 a month, is just not possible. And it's not embracing American values. And it would tear communities apart. And it would send a signal that we're not the kind of country that I know America is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Also instructive. You know, he stole that point from Kasich. Kasich had started going after Trump last night -

CAMEROTA: Right.

CUOMO: And then -

CAMEROTA: And then he jumped in.

CUOMO: And Jeb came in, which is exactly what people wanted to see more of.

[08:40:01] CAMEROTA: So, Van, I mean -

CUPP: And Pataki - let me add - let me just add, and Pataki. You know, George Pataki was not on - on either stage last night, but George Pataki had been drumming that line since he got in the race as well.

CUOMO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK, so, Van, on that - on that - NAVARRO: I'm - I'm so glad somebody noticed what George Pataki was drumming, S.E.

CUPP: I've been paying attention.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's talk -

NAVARRO: But - you know, I, actually, on the immigration thing yesterday, I saw something that I found really interesting, and it was, Ted Cruz trying to parse the words and make a distinction between himself and Donald Trump. It tells me that Ted Cruz thinks he might actually get this, have a chance at this and he knows he's got a real big problem with Hispanics, despite the fact that his name is Rafael and that he is the son of a Cuban immigrant.

CAMEROTA: Van, you've been very patient.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So what jumped out at you?

CUOMO: It's all gravy for you.

JONES: Well, I - well, first of all, I love the fact that the Republicans are spending this much time trying to figure how much they don't like the immigrant community. How - exactly how to get rid of them? Should they get rid of them? Like, this is great for Democrats because you - we're just sitting back - look, Mitt Romney said self- deportation and flushed himself down the toilet. You've got Donald Trump bragging on the wetback policy? The wetback policy? That is the most offensive moment in American history for millions of Americans.

So the fact that you have to have Kasich open the door for Bush to get in and I thought, you know, valiantly but, quite frankly, quite weakly, say, geez, can we not help Hillary Clinton? Could we try to be humane to people? This is where the Republican is. So I thought it was very good.

The other thing I thought was, attack the media. The - this was the payoff for two weeks of whining and complaining by Republicans attacking the - so now you have the moderators, they didn't ask basic follow-up questions on economic points. You've got Ted Cruz talking about the gold standard and there's no follow-up question? The media cowed by this whine offensive last night.

CUOMO: Maybe I'm jaded because I know and worked with Cavuto and Bartiromo but the - it seemed to me like the goal last night, S.E., was what you're supposed to do, which is, you know, don't look to me to negotiate your problems with each other.

CUPP: Yes.

CUOMO: Talk about it to each other. I'm going to give you the topic. How'd you see it?

CUPP: And - yes, and actually the best moments of the debate, maybe unintended, maybe begrudging for the moderators, but the best moments of last night's debate where when the candidates actually engaged each other and debated. We've - we've sort of forgotten that a debate involves a conversation between two people. These debates have become more like soliloquies. Those moments when Rand Paul and Marco Rubio and Trump and Fiorina were talking about ISIS and foreign policy to each other really laid out the best contrast on that issue. And then later Kasich and - Kasich and Cruz on Dodd-Frank and later Carly Fiorina came in for like sort of the punctuation, as she does so well. Those were great moments. I wish we could find more opportunities in these so called debates to let the candidates actually debate each other without making it a cage match, without saying Trump go after Cruz. I mean I don't think you need to do that to let those great moments happen.

CAMEROTA: Van -

NAVARRO: I totally -

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

NAVARRO: I totally agree with S.E. and I - you know, I thought last night the moderators did a good job in not provoking exchanges, in not promoting fights, but in allowing good exchanges between the candidates.

CAMEROTA: Right. So, Van -

NAVARRO: And I do think it was a result of what we saw from - from CNBC. I think they really put an effort into themselves not being protagonists on that stage and letting the protagonists be the eight people who were there debating, which is the way it should be.

CAMEROTA: Right. So, as a Democrat, who scared you the most last night?

JONES: You know, look, I'm always most concerned about Rubio. He can sometimes come across a little bit too slick, a little bit too polished, and sometimes maybe a little bit nervous. But fundamentally, he shows a level of strength. He shows a level - listen, if you put a Rubio and a Kasich together on the ticket, whoever's on top or bottom, you get Florida, you get Ohio right off the bat. That is devastating for Democrats. I just hope the Republican base is just too, you know, off on this sort of, you know, crazy (INAUDIBLE) mad at everything thing to do something that smart.

Rubio is still everybody's second choice. And you watch him. He's actually improving. You saw that exchange between him and Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is one of the smartest people in American politics. This guy went in front of the Supreme Court a gazillion times. He went toe to toe with Rubio. Rubio won. That is very, very scary if you're a - if you're a Democrat saying, this guy against Hillary Clinton? I don't know.

CUOMO: Aren't you supposed to want the best person, not just the person in your party?

JONES: No. I want - I want to win.

CAMEROTA: We like the candor this morning. S.E., Ana, Van, thanks so much. Great to get all of your perspective.

CUPP: Sure.

[08:44:47] CUOMO: All right, you know, look, why we do these stories and why we follow it all so closely is because, at the end of the day, what really matters most in the election is you, the voter. So we're going to take some actual voters, put them in front of us so you can watch and let's see what their reactions were and why just as importantly. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Head dizzy from the spin, are you? Don't worry about it. Guess who we have now? Real people. No more pundits, campaign staffers. We've done enough of that. All about you at the end of the day.

So let's bring in Mary Brauner, Marco Rubio supporter, Joseph Pinion, a Jeb Bush supporter - you can tell me how I got your name wrong in a second, Joseph - and Brandon Washington, a Ben Carson supporter. Everybody has said they're a little bit open. What is the pronunciation of your last night name?

JOSEPH PINION, JEB BUSH SUPPORTER: Pinion.

CUOMO: Oh, I was right.

PINION: Opinion without the O.

CUOMO: I thought you were going to give me a (INAUDINLE). OK. So let's get a couple of big moments from last night and then get your reactions. Let's play the first one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower -- good president, great president. People liked him. "I like Ike," right? The expression. "I like Ike." Moved a million and a half illegal immigrants out of this country. Moved them just beyond the border, they came back. Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. Moved them way south. They never came back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:50:09] CUOMO: All right. Now what did that mean to you when you heard it? You are leaning a little towards Rubio. Immigration is a huge issue. He, Rubio, is more on the practical, well we can't just get rid of everybody side. That is Trump's side. That's what's made the issue for him. What did you think?

MARY BRAUNER, MARCO RUBIO SUPPORTER: Trump's parents were immigrants. How would he have felt if his parents were taken out?

CUOMO: He'd say they are here legally, not illegally, and that is the whole difference.

BRAUNER: I don't think it is fair. I don't think it's fair for him to point fingers at immigrants. We have many good immigrants and what we need is to offer them a way to get from illegal to legal status. Not offering them voters rights. Offer them the opportunity that America has.

CUOMO: So not a free pass, but something that takes us in that direction. Joseph.

PINION: You know, actually it is funny, I was talking to my goddaughter and she's telling me about how, you know, every time apparently a fairy or a child laughs, you know, a fairy is born. And I think every time Donald Trump opens his mouth and starts talking about deporting 12 million undocumented immigrants, a new liberal is born and Hillary Clinton raises more money.

CUOMO: Jeb Bush had a different take last night. He says it's not the humane way do it and it is not practical. Do you accept that?

PINION: I believe that No. 1 it's not practical. No. 2, I mean, I think there might be some constitutional concerns there as well. More importantly, I think that we need to be talking about not being hard on immigrants but being smart on immigration and I think that is something that Governor Bush has really done a good job of trying to espouse throughout his campaign. And I think, again, when you start talking with that type of rhetoric, that type of divisive language that Donald Trump has used - you know, to his gain, I think --

CUOMO: Look at the polls.

PINION: We as a party start to have (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: The only one close to him -- is not your guys -- it is your guy, Dr. Carson. You had a little bit more of a challenge than the other two last night because Dr. Carson doesn't exactly dominate during a debate. What did you hear on that issue last night that made sense to you?

BRANDON WASHINGTON, BEN CARSON SUPPORTER: As far as immigration is concerned, obviously it is a big issue. I think we do have to address it in a humane way, but at the same time we do have to uphold the laws of the U.S.

CUOMO: How do you do both? If you are not here, if you are undocumented, that means you are breaking the law. The law says you got to go. So if you want to respect the law, what else do you do?

WASHINGTON: Right. Well, I mean, it's just like a sickness. If I have a cold, I can't just come to the doctor and say hey, you know, I need medicine. I need to actually address the actual cause of what's causing my cold. So it is the same thing with immigration. You can't just attack, you know, immigrants. You can't just attack Latin Americans. You have to attack the immigration system itself. It has to be fixed. CUOMO: Here is the next piece of sound that goes to that. Ted Cruz,

very strong also on immigration but with nuance compared to Trump. He talks more about the law and what you have to do as a party, the GOP, to stay competitive in this ways on this issue. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If a bunch of people with journalism degrees were coming over and driving down the wages in the press...

(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE AND CHEERING)

CRUZ: ...then we would see stories about the economic calamity that is befalling our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. That was my mother applauding. Nobody likes the press. But the point is this, that he's suggesting that immigrants take jobs lower, the number of jobs lower, the wages here. Do you believe that?

BRAUNER: No. I don't believe that because many immigrants come here with education, with degrees, with professions from other countries.

CUOMO: Most come, overstay visas, and therefore become undocumented. They don't run across the border. Most people don't know that. Good point for you. Joseph, when you hear that, it is scary. They are coming here, they're taking our jobs.

PINION: I mean, again, obviously it appeals to our, you know, our lesser angels (ph) but I think the important thing for us as Americans to remember is that - It's one thing, yes. First of all, we are a nation of laws, but you can't stand on principle with sullied hands and a complicit spirit. You know, the we are part of the problem because we have not addressed the border issues, we have not dealt with some of the issues as it pertains to actually getting the economy going and we know, statistically speaking, that mass deportation would lead to a tremendous adverse impact on GDP.

CUOMO: Did just say you can't stand on principle with sullied hands and a complicit spirit?

PINION: That's (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: That's what I'm talking about -- Line of the day. Alisyn didn't even say anything that good today. All right. Brandon, so final thought. With what you heard last night, are you going move at all on this issue? Because it is not what Dr. Carson owns, but is it shaping your opinion at all?

WASHINGTON: Right. No, not at all. When it comes to immigration I'm very conservative. I do believe that we have to maintain and uphold the law. As far as jobs are concerned, listen, you have millions of Americans who were born here who can't even find a job. It is Veterans Day. You have millions of Americans who actually fought overseas. They are having a hard time going to school. So I think we need to prioritize our people first before we start taking other people into consideration.

CUOMO: But there's a middle ground and all of you are open to it and we moved a little bit last night. Let's see where the rest of the campaign takes us.

[08:55:03] Lady, gentlemen, thank you very much.

WASHINGTON: Thank you so much for having us.

CUOMO: All right. Coming up next, "The Good Stuff."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. The real "Good Stuff" today. It is Veterans Day. Once again, thank you, our fighting men and women and your families, thank you for your service and sacrifice.

Last night was the 240th birthday of the Marines, by the way. I was at the Stand Up for Heroes event. It's the annual gala put on by the Bob Woodruff Foundation. You know him. My buddy, big ABC News anchor, overcame an amazing injury that he go in Iraq. He, his wife, Lee, his family, they've all come together and now they try to help other veterans who are dealing with TBI and so much more. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB WOODRUFF, ABC NEWS: And now we're working more long-term issues that we need to deal with. And we are now raising the money, the attention, and then getting it to the best organizations that are trying to fix that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Hey, the (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Yes, he comes every year. He plays like four songs and he tells bad jokes and huge comedians come.