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'Operation Free Sinjar' Underway in Iraq; Family Sues Police after Fatal Stun Gun Incident; GOP Candidates Spar Over Immigration. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 12, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kurdish Peshmerga forces aim to recapture the Iraqi town of Sinjar from ISIS.

[05:58:34] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS has had over a year now to build that city into a basic death trap. Taking Sinjar will really be an important step.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This started out with the police going to help a man.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: An hour later, he's dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Force was adequate at that time. Once they got his leg shackled, it should have stopped. It was intentional.

JOE MESSA, MANAGING PARTNER, MESS & ASSOCIATES: There's no accident here.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People want borders. We don't have a border, we don't have a country.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are parts of the border, you can't build a wall. I don't care what Donald Trump says.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): After ten years on the work permit, I personally am open.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm in favor of securing our borders, and this is not a difficult thing to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, November 12, 6 a.m. in the East. And we do have news breaking overnight.

U.S. involved in major fighting in Iraq. This is called a major offensive at a cross roads on the war on ISIS. Thousands of Peshmerga fighters supported by U.S. air power are doing battle for a key town. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, coalition warplanes will be

overhead, providing cover. The objective is to cut off major jihadist supply lines from Syria and drive the terrorists out.

Let's get the latest from CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh. He's outside of Sinjar this morning.

Good morning, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nine o'clock local time last night, that's when we understand the offensive began. And we could see it from the top of Mt. Sinjar. The night sky lit up by a series of explosions, part of days of efforts by coalition aircraft to soften up the town of Sinjar's ISIS defenders.

Now, it's symbolically vital because of what happened there last year to the Yazidis that live there, forced into the mountains, forced into slavery, captivity. But it's strategically vital, as well.

And what's clear today, as the fighting continues, is it's about the highway that runs a distance behind me here, Highway 47. It goes from Raqqah in Syria, the caliphate self-declared capital of ISIS, to Mosul in Iraq. The Pentagon think if they can cut that, they can perhaps cut off ISIS's ability to sell black-market oil around the region.

What we're hearing in the past few moments is intense explosions behind us. It clearly shows a coalition aircraft coming to the support of what may have been an ISIS counterattack to move back down the highway.

The Kurds are clear. They need to cut that road off. They say they've done it in certain parts. But that is going to be, in the hours ahead, where the greatest fighting and certainty is. It is both symbolically and strategically vital, Sinjar, and I think, presents a momentum that Pentagon officials want to have. But their efforts here are going to lead to something in the fight against ISIS.

Back to you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR; All right, Nick. We'll be watching that with you.

We have more breaking news for you. The FAA probing a series of laser attacks in two major cities overnight. Several TV news choppers were targeted in New York City. You can see it right there. The green beam of light shining right into the camera. That's for Chopper 4, a local NBC affiliate here in New York City.

You can actually listen to the chopper's pilot as the lights were coming into his line of sight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the rear of the building, I see the people involved right now. They're walking in and out of the building. Hitting us right now. Don't look, George. Oh, yes, you think is this a joke, huh?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: The TV crew was able to get in touch with the nearby police helicopter, which located the source of that laser. The NYPD says two people are now under arrest, and charges are pending.

Now, also last night, three separate commercial planes hit by lasers while landing outside of Dallas. Those planes were at altitudes of between 3,000 and 4,000 feet. Police are still investigating those cases. All of this coming as pilots grapple with more dangers in the sky, with drones and bomb scares seemingly more rampant.

CAMEROTA: Well, disturbing newly-released video raising questions about the death of a Virginia man in police custody back in 2013. The footage shows officers repeatedly Tasing him while he's handcuffed. The video surfacing as part of a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the man's family. The hearing is scheduled in that case today.

And CNN's justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, is live with the very latest.

What do we know, Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Alisyn.

This video we received through the attorney involved with the lawsuit shows the man dying while in police custody after he was taken away from the hospital and Tased, raising questions about whether police should have done more to get him medical treatment sooner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): This police video shows three officers in South Boston, Virginia, Tasing a man right outside a hospital emergency room. Shortly after, that man, 46-year-old Linwood Lambert, died in police custody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not locking you up.

BROWN: The video begins with officers picking Lambert up at a motel early one morning in May of 2013 after several 911 calls were made about noise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you. I got you.

BROWN: In court records, police say because of the way Lambert was acting, they decided to take him to the hospital for a mental health evaluation. They say he made comments about murdering two people and hiding their bodies in the ceiling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to take you to the emergency room. We're going to get you looked at and make sure you're good to go.

BROWN: Inside the patrol car, police say he kicked out the window. Then the video shows Lambert running straight into the hospital doors while handcuffed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on your belly!

BROWN: He falls to the ground, and the officers repeatedly ask him to roll over onto his stomach while threatening to Tase him. Lambert then admits he was on drugs.

LINWOOD LAMBERT, DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY: I just did cocaine, man.

BROWN: But instead of taking him inside the emergency room, the officers take him to the police station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're under arrest. Stand up.

BROWN: The officers Tase Lambert multiple times. He's bleeding, apparently from breaking the squad car window. By the time they reached the police station, Lambert appears unconscious in the back seat. He was later pronounced dead at the hospital after going into cardiac arrest, according to the medical examiner's report.

The report ruled the cause of death as acute cocaine intoxication, but the family blames the police. And they filed a $25 million wrongful death lawsuit, alleging, quote, "The officers' callous disregard for Linwood Lambert in Tasering him multiple times and depriving him of the medical care he needed violated his constitutional right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment."

Police have denied the allegations, saying Lambert's erratic actions required the use of force.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And the South Boston Police Department released a statement saying, "We are vigorously defending this case. Our position is affirmed by the reports of two independent, well-qualified experts in the field."

[06:05:09] CNN attempted to reach both the South Boston Police, as well as Virginia State Police, who picked up this investigation of Lambert's death. And we have not heard back.

Important to note the medical examiner's report said, while cocaine was the cause of death, there were three puncture wounds that looked like they were from a Taser. CNN, however, was not able to independently verify how many times Lambert was Tasered -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Pamela.

Let's bring in CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Mr. Danny Cavallas; and Matthew Horace, former ATF executive and senior vice president for FJC Security Services. Huge fact also that needs to be entered into this analysis. This

does not just happen. This happened in May -- on May 4, 2013. There's been no actions in terms of charges or anything like that prosecutorial since then. With that as the context, when and how are you allowed to Tase?

MATTHEW HORACE, SVP, FJC SECURITY SERVICES: Tasers are an intermediate use of force. And we use it most often to incapacitate suspects so that we don't have to escalate up to lethal force. And in this case, they used it when they felt they had the right to do so, once, twice, perhaps, ten to 18, 20 times.

CUOMO: How -- when do you stop Tasing? When is too much Tasing? What is the line?

HORACE: You're supposed to incapacitate the suspect enough to get them handcuffed and get them restrained. Because once they're in your custody, you own them.

CUOMO: All right. So they started off wanting to do the right thing here in quotes, right, Danny? They wanted to take this guy to get help. They didn't want to arrest him. He seemed to obviously -- in some kind of delirium. Then things changed. What's the case?

DANNY CAVALLAS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the case here is one of the things the officer is going to have to explain is that they made a command decision to take him to the emergency room, so at some point, they felt that he needed medical attention. But then after they Tase him, they apparently decided that he no longer needs medical attention. So that's going to be an issue we're going to see later.

Look, Taser guidelines suggest a number of things that were not followed here. You shouldn't use multiple Tasers at the same time. You shouldn't expose people to more than a certain number of Tases or a number of seconds under the -- under that electrical charge. And it looks like, in all these -- here, all of those guidelines were exceeded.

I will say this, however: federal courts that have addressed this issue when applying the Graham and the standards to decide whether or not this was an excessive use of force, had determined that where the suspect is trying to flee, even where they may be restrained, that using Tasers is justified. They have excused officers' conduct in those cases.

CUOMO: Nobody is saying whether or not you can use Tasers. It's when, right? You have the three-part test in the Graham practice: severity of the underlying crime, which means how much concern we have about you in the first place; whether there's a threat to the officers, OK, which really doesn't apply here.

CAVALLAS: But the third is the big one.

CUOMO: Whether resisting arrest. The guy's certainly resisting arrest. But the question is why is he resisting arrest? They'd already made a decision early on that, even though he wasn't comporting himself the way you'd want with a perp, when they went to him in the hotel, where they started, they took him to the hospital. But why didn't they just take him into the hospital after they Tased him?

HORACE: That's probably what should have happened here. They identified that they were dealing with a chemical dependency issue or a medical health issue. But remember, police officers are also trained that when you come across people like this, you may be in danger. They knew that coming in.

CUOMO: Well, we have video here.

HORACE: You have video.

CUOMO: You've got three burly -- to put it nicely -- officers standing around this person.

HORACE: Right.

CUOMO: They've got leg shackles on him.

HORACE: Yes, yes. The only thing that could have happened is he could have run into the hospital, knocked someone over. Eventually, he was more of a danger to himself than he was to the officers.

CUOMO: But he didn't love run into the hospital. That's the use of the videotape. He didn't run into the hospital. He didn't come at the officers.

HORACE: Right.

CUOMO: He was on the ground. He was even trying to say the right types of things, Danny, right? "I'm responding. I'm responding. I'm on drugs; I'm on drugs." Right?

CAVALLAS: It's a common problem. It's the difference between resisting arrest in the form of putting up their dukes or trying to flee. And you really don't use the Tennessee v. Garner lethal force on a fleeing felon rule here, because -- especially because Tasers have been marketed as a less lethal alternative. They're not nonlethal. They're less lethal.

And the guidelines don't -- they give us a lot of information, but they also don't give us a lot of information in that, because these are less lethal alternatives, maybe the general idea has become, well, we can pump someone full of these -- full of these charges. And we can do so, because we know that the statistics show they're not likely to die or be long-term seriously injured. And maybe that's a problematic -- an inherent problem when you're using less lethal alternatives.

CUOMO: Here's what the family's attorney had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MESSA: It's intentional. There's no accident here. It wasn't accidental that they Tased Mr. Lambert the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time. Or the fourth time. We know now from the discovery that -- Taser logs, that he -- that the Tasers were discharged 20 or more times. And that is contrary to the policies of the South Boston Police Department. It's contrary to the recommendations of the Justice Department. It's contrary to the warnings and recommendations of the manufacturer of the Taser. The conduct is unconscionable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:10:22] CUOMO: How surprised are you that there were no charges in this case? Because remember, this happened two years ago.

CAVALLAS: Here's the fascinating thing about these cases, is that if you look at the case law, the vast majority of these cases deal with people suing law enforcement agencies. They don't deal with the decision of a prosecutor to charge or really not charge an officer...

CUOMO: You can't sue them civilly for not having charged. It's whether or not there should be civil action against them.

CAVALLAS: Exactly.

CUOMO: The guy's dead. That's the problem here, right, Matthew? I mean, the guy's dead. It's not you shouldn't have used the Taser. It's you killed him.

I know the M.E. says it was cocaine. But any good lawyer is going to insinuate that you filling them up, you know, like an electrical box for minutes is going to have a factor, too. What's your take?

HORACE: Well, the cause of death was cocaine intoxication.

CUOMO: Right.

HORACE: That doesn't have to do with what happened prior to with what happened prior to it. And there's also that issue of excited delirium, which we see is all too often. People's heart rates are up. They're sweating. They're excited. Even and we get them shackled or handcuffed, it creates a problem for the suspect and for the police.

CUOMO: And obviously, the irony here, they wanted to take him to the hospital. This happened in front of the hospital. And the man still winds up dead. We'll stay on this case. Danny, Matthew, thank you very much -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. A second student in Missouri has been taken into custody overnight for allegedly making threats on social media. It comes hours after 19-year-old Hunter Park was arrested for allegedly posting racially charged death threats against University of Missouri students.

Racial tensions boiling over at schools across the country now. Students at Ithaca College in New York staging a walkout, demanding their president resign over his handling of racial issues on their campus.

CAMEROTA: All right. Turning now to politics. The Republican candidates getting back on the stump after Tuesday's presidential debate. The battle over immigration is now front and center on the trail. CNN's Athena Jones is following developments for us from Iowa.

Good morning, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

It was Donald Trump's hardline stance on illegal immigration that helped rocket him to the top of the polls. Even as Republicans and Democrats on and off the campaign trail have warned that his approach could hurt the party's chances in 2016.

So it's clear the divide in the party over immigration isn't going away.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump!

JONES (voice-over): GOP 2016 hopefuls, back on the campaign trail, fanning across the country.

TRUMP: We started off with 17. And one by one by one, they're disappearing.

JONES: Trump in New Hampshire. Chief rival Ben Carson heading down the coast of Virginia, highlighting his religious bona fides with evangelicals.

CARSON: In Romans Chapter 8, it says, "If God's before you, who can be against you?" You don't have to worry.

JONES: Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie hitting Iowa.

BUSH: Got some more coffee heading your way.

JONES: Amidst a deep divide over illegal immigration.

TRUMP: We would do it in a very humane way.

JONES: Trump not backing down from his build-a-wall-and-deport- 11-million-people immigration strategy.

BUSH: I don't care what Donald Trump says.

JONES: Jeb Bush continuing to attack his plan as unworkable.

BUSH: A half a million people basically, I think, would double the number of people processed through our judicial system. It's not possible.

JONES: And instead, proposing a path to citizenship and a guest worker program. BUSH: Having an ability for people to legally come back and

forth to allow them to work.

JONES: Rubio open to the idea.

RUBIO (via phone): After ten years on the work permit, I personally am open.

JONES: Carson also weighing in.

CARSON: I propose that we give them a six-month period in which to register.

CRUZ: There is nothing compassionate about a bunch of politicians saying, "I'm so compassionate, I'm going to give away your job."

JONES: Cuban-American Ted Cruz quick to charge that his GOP rivals are supporting what he believes would be amnesty.

CRUZ: If we just believe with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on amnesty, Republicans will lose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: I asked Governor Bush last night if he thought the Republican primary voters agreed with him on immigration. He said, yes, and pointed to the applause he got on debate night when he challenged Trump's immigration plan -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you very much, Athena.

So in other news this morning, a tornado just ripped its way across Iowa yesterday, destroying much in its path. Homes, property throughout Knoxville, torn apart by winds that overturned a Wal-Mart semi and ripped away parts of the roof.

We're continuing to watch the storm as it moves now through the Great Lakes into Canada. Expect heavy rains and airport delays throughout the Northeast.

PEREIRA: A Utah judge just removed a baby girl from her lesbian foster parents, apparently because they are lesbians. Judge Scott Johansen ruling it's best for the child's well-being to be placed with a heterosexual foster couple within the next week, even though the lesbian couple is legally married. They are approved by Child and Family Services to adopt.

[06:15:12] Officials from the Department of Children and Family Services is trying to determine whether they can now legally challenge that judge's order.

CAMEROTA: Let's get that judge on our show.

PEREIRA: We need to talk about this. Absolutely. We need to further explore it. CUOMO: What would you ask? What's the key question? Why?

PEREIRA: Why?

CAMEROTA: Why did you do it? Why did you take the baby away...

PEREIRA: If they've been approved.

CAMEROTA: ... from loving parents. Right.

CUOMO: Well, he has it with -- he or she, the judge, has it within their own purview to make the judgment of whether or not it's in the best interest of the child. The question is what is the motivation for not thinking it's in their best interests?

CAMEROTA: But isn't it what's the legal precedent?

PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: They were approved for it. It was following all the right channels. Why couldn't you do that?

PEREIRA: They were even married.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: We're going to see if we can stay on this story.

CAMEROTA: All right. So as you just heard from Athena, it's the most controversial issue on the campaign trail right now, immigration. It's front and center in Tuesday night's debate. Could it be the defining issue for the race for the Republican nomination? We're going to take a closer look at where they all stand when NEW DAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:09] CUOMO: Will immigration be the big dividing line in the race for 2016? It was huge at this week's GOP debate. And with the candidates back on the trail, it's now becoming more important and divisive, because it's about the positions; what do they each believe?

Here this morning, CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York One, Errol Louis; and conservative commentator and senior contributor to "The Daily Caller," Matt Lewis.

Let's start off with the supposition, Errol, how big a deal can immigration be? Is it a metaphor moment within this election?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a huge deal. It's a huge deal. It's huge, in part because it ends up being, especially for Latino voters, something that the Republicans have tried to figure out.

You had a Latino vote for President Bush in 2004, 40 percent, the high-water mark for the Republican Party. That drops to 31 percent for John McCain, who loses. It drops to

22, 23 percent for Mitt Romney, who also loses.

And they've written about this. The Republican Party knows that they have to try and turn this around. They know that this is one of the key issues that really has separated them from Latino voters. And yet, still, you hear the rhetoric.

A key point, I thought, in the debate the other night was when someone -- I think it was Kasich -- said, like, "They're high-fiving each other in Clinton headquarters when we talk like this." Because you can't win these voters, and you can't win the next election by talking this way -- this loose, this rough -- about immigration.

CAMEROTA: Matt, it seems as though this issue is diciest for Rubio.

MATT LEWIS, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And they're beginning to go after him, because he was part of the Gang of Eight, which was this bipartisan group for Republicans, for Democrats that were going to work on immigration reform. He has since backed away from that.

But listen to Ted Cruz, who is still holding him to account for that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: It is not complicated that, on the seminal fight over amnesty in Congress, the Gang of Eight here that was the brainchild of Chuck Schumer and Barack Obama, that would have granted amnesty to 12 million people here illegally. That I stood with the American people and led the fight to defeat it in the United States Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Which American people, of course?

CAMEROTA: He dropped the Chuck Schumer bomb there. That's got to hurt Marco Rubio. So, Matt, what does Rubio do?

LEWIS: Well, look, first of all, I think you're right. This has got to come to Marco Rubio, because Rubio is doing really well. I mean, Rubio is on the rise. And eventually, Ted Cruz or somebody else is going to try to take him down. The way you take him down is to talk about the, quote/unquote, "amnesty issue."

I think Rubio has to get out in front of this. I think he might want to consider, rather than responding in a debate, where you don't really get to frame the issue, having a Jack Kennedy speech moment, like John F. Kennedy about the Catholic issue, or even Barack Obama about Reverend Wright. Because I think he needs to talk about it.

No. 1, the Senate bill was not amnesty. I mean, amnesty is just forgiveness. The Senate bill said, "You can't be a criminal. You have to pay a fine. You have to pay back taxes. Then you have to wait a dozen years, and then you might become eligible to possibly be a citizen." So I think Rubio has to define what it is he's supported.

Then I think he has to explain why he has a different position today. And I think the answer is pretty simple: We found out that you cannot pass comprehensive immigration reform. You have to secure the border first. And plus, Barack Obama, I think,, poisoned the well with these executive orders.

So I think Rubio actually has to lay this out. He has a very defensible position, but he has to explain it properly.

CUOMO: Matt, there seems to be almost a schizophrenic back and forth in terms of the reasoning that you're laying out here. Not that you are, but the reality is that it's that way.

Cruz says amnesty, makes it a bad word.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: OK, that works for the part of your base. Although Cruz has no alternative plan that he's coming out. He just keeps waving amnesty as a bad thing. No other way to deal with the law-breaking that he's pointing out.

LEWIS: Right.

CUOMO: Rubio says, "OK, I wanted to do that. We can't do it. We need to do something else."

The big question for you guys is, do you pick someone who warms your heart or who can beat Hillary? It seems like all of this talk should make you run to Rubio, no?

LEWIS: Well, I think it should. But you've got to remember, there's a Republican primary happening right now. And there's a segment of the Republican base that the immigration issue is a hot- button, passionate issue. They are very worried that we're going to have a situation where eventually, it's impossible for Republicans to win elections, because the assumption is that Hispanics are going to just vote disproportionately for Democrats.

What they should do is actually look to Texas. You know, Senator Cruz's colleague, John Cornyn, the other Texas senator, actually won the Hispanic vote as recently as last year. It's possible to win over Hispanics...

CUOMO: Sure.

LEWIS: ... as long as you don't go around saying that they're all rapists, as -- you know, Donald Trump says.

CUOMO: And you need a plan. You need a plan.

[06:25:00] CAMEROTA: Good segue, Matt. Because let's talk about Donald Trump's plan. He has now talked about using a deportation force to do the kind, friendly version of what Eisenhower did when he deported more than a million people. That was called the Wetback Plan. That is not one that people think of with great nostalgia.

LOUIS: Well, no, that's exactly right. First of all, it didn't work. So it didn't even achieve its objective. So that's the first thing to sort of put right up front, is that this -- they've tried it. It didn't work. If you want to try it again, sure, you can deport a lot of people, you can break up a lot of families, you can cause a lot of disruption and spend a lot of government money.

CUOMO: And those were all agricultural workers. There wasn't even a family dynamic issue like you have now.

LOUIS: Right. And they had the cooperation of the Mexican government, which sort of agreed to receive them and put them into areas where they needed agricultural workers in central Mexico. You don't have any of that going on now. And so it's not guaranteed to succeed by any means.

On the other hand, Trump is not talking crazy to this extent. Barack Obama was called the deporter in chief.

CUOMO: Yes.

LOUIS: Toward the end of his first term, they were deporting 1,000 people a day. Three hundred and sixty-five thousand, four hundred thousand a year.

CUOMO: He doesn't get credit for that, though. The Republicans on the extreme say they just started calculating it differently.

LOUIS: Well, if Trump were to do that and boost that number 10 percent, 20 percent, it would be just as disruptive as what he's talking about. It would certainly put the fear of God in lots of immigrants, which appears to be part of what he's calling for.

You know, the wall plan, of course, makes no sense at all, because this is about -- mostly about visa overstays...

CUOMO: Right.

LOUIS: ... rather than people creeping over the border.

So he's using it as an issue because people like it. They like to hear him talk tough. They like to hear him talk rough. They like to hear him say that there is a solution, even though every expert, left, right and center, that you really talk to seriously says that's not going to be the solution. You're not going to find 11 million people and have this remain the democracy that we know it to be now.

CAMEROTA: You want to hear Carson's plan?

CUOMO: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Do we have time?

CUOMO: Sure. I say we have time.

CAMEROTA: They say no. So that's a tease.

CUOMO: Here comes a day of social media.

CAMEROTA: We'll have to talk -- we'll have to talk about it later. Matt Lewis, Errol -- I mean, Errol -- wait a minute, you guys have the same last name.

LOUIS: Different spelling.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

CUOMO: So you're not related?

LOUIS: No.

CAMEROTA: Really? You're not related? Interesting. All right, guys.

CUOMO: Gate (ph) says you're related.

LOUIS: Well, check the TMX (ph), right.

CAMEROTA: The Louis brothers. Thank you guys.

CUOMO: What about the Jeb -- the Jeb chest bump, do we have time for that? Do we have to save that for later also?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: All right, good. Whew! No policy, but we do have time for a moment. Jeb Bush, could this be a metaphor for the resurgence?

CAMEROTA: What!

LEWIS: Wow.

CUOMO: That was a chest bump with a new supporter. Can we run that again, any chance? All right. What do you say?

CAMEROTA: In slo mo. Let's slo-mo it.

Ah, he's supporting Jeb's immigration plan.

CUOMO: Right. So he's a new supporter. So he gave him a chest bump.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: And that was it.

CAMEROTA: That's why it was relevant there. That was for immigration.

CUOMO: I think that really what we're looking at is the nature and quality of the actual chest bump. Do you believe that that worked for Jeb Bush?

CAMEROTA: Yes, that was a great chest bump.

OK. All right. Meanwhile, immigration is sure to come up tonight when Donald Trump is on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT." That's at 7 p.m. Eastern only on CNN. Stay tuned for that.

PEREIRA: The problem is, though, if you give him validation on that, he's going to try and do that here. We have to remain with the fist bumps on the set. Just know that. You can't play.

CUOMO: You two have both asked for chest bumps.

PEREIRA: You can't play.

CUOMO: I've denied it in the name of decency.

PEREIRA: All right.

We're going to move on. We've got a lot of news to get to, including this. Some startling images to see: inner tubes, life jackets, piling up along the shores of the Greek island. Thousands of migrants risking their lives to escape Turkey. Europe's refugee crisis is worsening by the hour. We have a live report for you ahead here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)