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Interview with Josh Earnest; 2 Dead, 7 Arrested in Major Police Raid. Aired 6-7a ET

Aired November 18, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And was this believed by the White House to be a second wave of attacks that was just thwarted?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, Alisyn, I can tell you that the president as he has gone about his day here in Manila has been briefed and updated on the law enforcement operation that has been under way in Paris for much of the night there in Paris.

This is obviously a French operation. This is a French law enforcement operation. And they're carrying it out.

The United States has pledged our support, both in terms of expertise and intelligence that we can share with them. So the results of this operation, we'll let the French discuss. This is certainly something the president is keeping close tabs on.

CAMEROTA: Josh, it feels like something changed on Friday. It feels as though with the attacks in Paris on Friday, that the strategy against ISIS or at least the actions against ISIS have been ramped up with Russia getting involved, with the French getting involved. Is the U.S. getting more aggressive now against ISIS?

EARNEST: Well, Alisyn, the first thing that's important for people to understand is that the United States has been involved in carrying out military strikes inside of Syria for more than a year now. It is only because of the significant investments this president made and ordered in terms of collecting intelligence, carrying out military airstrikes inside of Syria, that is what allows France to now ramp up their contribution to our effort and to carry out strikes themselves.

So, we certainly appreciate the greater contribution from our French allies but none of this would be possible without the logistical support, the air refueling and the intelligence that's been collected by the United States. So, this is -- the reason I raise that, Alisyn, it's important for people to understand, this is something the president has been focused on. The president is aware of the threat been posed by ISIL.

And the fact of the matter is way back in September of 2014 when the president announced he ordered these actions, the primary purpose of carrying out military operations inside of Syria was to start to take action, to apply pressure to ISIL, to deny them a safe haven so they could not use a safe haven inside of the chaos of Syria to carry out attacks in West. CAMEROTA: Yes.

EARNEST: And the fact is, we have made progress. About 20 percent to 25 percent of the populated area that ISIL previously operated in in Iraq and Syria is no longer an area they can safely operate. So, we've made progress but there's more important work to be done.

CAMEROTA: Well, Josh, I mean, we may have made progress in terms of territory but the very fact they were able to carry out this coordinated, deadly attack in Paris, didn't that the mean we have not, obviously, done enough to stop ISIS?

EARNEST: Alisyn, of course there's more important work to be done. The president made clear back in September of 2014 when he discussed this issue, when he ordered this military action, made clear that this was going to be a long-term proposition. That ISIL had made significant gains in Syria inside of -- and in Iraq. And ISIL has capitalized on the political chaos inside of Syria to establish a safe haven there and to pose a threat in the region and around the world.

This is a threat that the president is very mindful of and that's why he's ordered the significant action that he's ordered. It's why he has built and led a coalition of more than 65 other nations to degrade an ultimately destroy this organization. The president never promised it would happen overnight.

We've been mindful of this risk going forward. There's no denying the important progress that's being made.

You'll recall just last week the United States took a strike outside of Raqqa where we were able to take off the battlefield, in all likelihood, one of the most infamous members of ISIL, this Mohamed Emwazi character, otherwise known as Jihadi John, featured in many of the execution videos ISIL put out. That, again, is also evidence of the progress we have made against ISIL inside of Iraq and in Syria that certainly doesn't downplay the ongoing threat that they pose. And that's why the president has been working closely with allies to continue the effort to degrade and ultimately destroy that organization.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Josh, it's Chris Cuomo in Paris. Thank you for joining us.

There's no question that we are at a moment of reset right now. It is difficult to see where we are as a function of success, not only the vulnerabilities that were exposed here in Paris, but there's no question that ISIS still has not just one but several safe havens of operation regardless of what's going on in certain parts of the ground between Syria and Iraq. And it raises the question of how are you going to do more?

Because it's obviously needed. There are big gaps in intel. We're hearing from the U.S. side that they knew about the man who's now seen as a planner here. They knew about other people involved in this attack. That wasn't translated. We saw with the Egyptian plane that they can do it in the air. We saw

here they can do it on the ground. This is not about the success up to this point, it's about the lack of success. So, what needs to change?

EARNEST: Well, Chris, again, I think the president has been fight clear about the fact, first of all, that we're quite aware of the extremist threat that existed inside the Sinai Peninsula for fight some time.

[06:35:06] Again, for years, the FAA has had certain flight restrictions in place in the Sinai, the State Department over the course of the last year has given repeated travel warnings, warning people of the risk of traveling in the Sinai Peninsula. That is an indication that we have taken precautions against the extremist threat that exists inside Sinai Peninsula.

When it comes to this extremist threat in other parts of the world, just last week, the United States carried out an operation against an ISIL leader inside of Libya. We're still assessing the results of that operation. But we're able to take the targeted strike against the leader of ISIL inside of Libya, because of the intensive, intelligence operation that's been under way inside of Libya, because of efforts to coordinate with local officials on the grounded to develop that information.

And so, this is an indication that this is something that the president has been focused on for fight some time and we've made important progress. That is not in any way to deny the significance of how serious this threat is. In fact, it actually confirms that the president takes this seriously.

We've built a coalition of 65 nations who are assisting us in this effort in Iraq and in Syria. It's not just a military strategy. The other thing we need to do is ultimately resolve the political chaos inside of Syria. And that's why Secretary Kerry has been leading these international discussions that have included in the same room the Russians, the Saudis and the Iranians --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

EARNEST: -- to ensure that everybody with a stake in the outcome in Syria is around the table. They recently announced just over the weekend they made progress in that political transition.

There is no -- ultimately no military solution to this problem. We can apply significant pressure using our military and we're going to do that. But, ultimately, if we're going to solve this problem, we need to address the political situation inside of Syria. And Secretary Kerry is making progress doing exactly that.

CAMEROTA: Josh, if the coalition, the Russians and the French said we've determined that we need boots on the ground, air strikes aren't going to cut it. Air strikes are only going to -- we're going to see more of the Paris-style attacks, would the U.S. participate? EARNEST: Well, Alisyn, the president a few weeks ago did make an

announcement of a small deployment of fewer than 50 special operations forces that are on the ground inside of Syria. They're not there in a combat role but are there to offer advice and assistance to local forces on the ground with whom we have had success in cooperating, and who are taking the fight to ISIL on the ground inside their own country.

Alisyn, the president does not believe that a significant deployment of U.S. ground troops in a combat operation is going to solve the problem. In fact, I think what we saw back in 2003 when President Bush ordered a similar operation inside of Iraq, it actually made the problem worse. And there is plenty of evidence to indicate that that failed foreign policy decision has actually contributed to the kind of situation that we're facing right now.

CUOMO: Josh, what you're setting up, though, right now is not a unilateral proposition, even if the president does by argument an extension of current law have the ability to decide these things. It really is a focus of debate. It does take sharp focus to the issue of the authorization of use of military force. This is a decision that needs to be made by consensus with Congress. Not just under the Constitution but within the political practicalities.

Is the president going to go back to Congress and say, it is time for us to have the debate about what military action needs to mean in this war?

EARNEST: Yes. Chris, the president made this precise point at the news conference that he conducted in Manila earlier today. We've seen a lot of debate in Congress about things that they may do that have much more to do with politics than national security, particularly when it comes to our refugee program. But the fact of the matter is, Congress has fallen down on the job. When it comes to their responsibility to passing authorization to use military force.

We certainly have our men and women in uniform in Iraq and Syria who are putting themselves in harm's way to do their job. It's time for members of Congress to do their job. The administration put forward specific language that could be included in an authorization to use military force this past February.

And for nine months, it's made no progress to the Congress despite the fact that the president sent senior members of his national security team, including his secretary of defense, his secretary of state and some of military leaders to Congress to testify about the importance of this specific piece of legislation. They did that in public and under oath.

Congress has done nothing. It's time for them to do their job and actually pass an authorization to use military force that would send a clear signal to the American people that were united in this effort, send a clear signal to our allies that we're united in this effort. And it's time to send a clear signal to our enemies that we're united in this effort as well. CUOMO: Obviously, it's going to take leadership to get to the

dysfunction, and obviously, that would be paramount in importance for the president.

Josh Earnest, thank you for joining us in this very important moment. We'll stay in touch with you as things develop here, because the concern is this may be Paris but it could just as easily be Portland in the United States. And that's why there's such a demand for action.

[06:40:00] We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we expect to hear from the French President Francois Hollande about what happened here today and what it means going forward.

Stay with CNN's continuing coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: If you're just joining us, there has been a flurry of activity outside Paris this morning, explosions, gunfire, a major operation by French authorities on a certain street in a community outside Paris called Saint-Denis. Why were they there?

They had reason to believe that the planner of Friday's attacks may be not in Syria as speculated but here, outside Paris in an apartment on a street in Saint-Denis. They went to one apartment, then a second. They wound up encountering a team that at this point we know to have been at least equal in number, firepower and explosive capabilities to the one that launched the attacks on Friday.

A female inside, identified as a terrorist by authorities, detonated what they believe was certainly an explosive, maybe an additional explosion vest. At least she and one other terrorist were killed. Others were detained. Very important for the understanding of this investigation.

[06:45:00] It culminated in a bizarre scene with French police outside the door of a church, bashing a hole in it to find something inside. There's been no more fruit of that discovery to us. That's how we arrived at where we are today after hours of a flurry of activity.

So, now, with that as the backdrop, we have to figure out what's going on and why this is happening.

We have with us Fabrice Magnier. You're a former navy SEAL here in France. You also are now the chairman of a security company here in France.

You're saying that the metaphor is that this is like bamboo, that these raids are revealing a slowly growing root network that is now popping up chutes that could be the Friday attacks, what they say they just stopped in the nick of time and maybe more?

FABRICE MAGNIER, COUNTER TERRORISM EXPERT: Yes, it's exactly -- the idea we have (INAUDIBLE) for the last years, the sleeping cell spread out around Paris and big cities in France. (INAUDIBLE) And our government knew this will (INAUDIBLE). They knew this massive attack (INAUDIBLE). But --

CUOMO: If they knew, why only now are we seeing the activity?

MAGNIER: Because, you know, it's not so easy politically for the French government to increase very quickly the level of our security in France because we have 10 percent of Muslim. And we have to be very careful because that community can be offended because if they feel the target Muslim (INAUDIBLE), we will have a big problem in France. We have to balance this. And also, we have also some social problem as work issues in France.

So, it's not so easy to French people. We are going to be at war very soon. So we'll increase our security level right now. But we have been working around on this. But because it's the terrorism accelerating the action on our ground, because I think it looks like they are fight ready, they are speaking everywhere, not only in France, logistic networks outside France, networks to get from Syria to Europe. We have now big boundary issues in Europe. It's very difficult to control because we are discovering this massive immigration of people now in Europe.

CUOMO: They are -- sources close to the investigations are telling us that they are now getting so much new information because they're allowed to do things they couldn't do before.

MAGNIER: Yes.

CUOMO: So, they're playing catch up as we say in the United States. They're trying to catch up to this. There may be a third team. There may be a fourth team.

Do you think there's a reason to believe that?

MAGNIER: Yes, of course. Those last few days, that demonstrates clearly there are different teams. It looks like they are very coordinated all together. So, we don't know what's planned by those guys this morning, you know? Maybe they were trying to strike bigger place, west Paris where we have all the big buildings, multinational headquarters.

CUOMO: That's the commercial center, headquarters of businesses.

MAGNIER: It's a symbol in Paris.

For sure, we have sleeping cell ready to strike. So, our police forces now are very accelerating now, because now we have an emergency order in France. They have the right to strike in every house they want, to strike the place where we feel some radicals are living there. So, we did 300 raids in the last two days. We got many, many information.

I think we will continue this type of operation very quickly to get massive information and to stop what's going on and to take appropriate decision to stop them.

CUOMO: All right. So, that takes to us where we are right now. Then we had this conversation, Christiane and Jim Sciutto -- Christiane Amanpour and Jim Sciutto with us here as they have been for hours. We talked to Josh Earnest. The word from the White House is, set within the context of success, that we are having success, this has shown that ISIS can't operate in as many places.

How does that make sense given that we just saw what happen in Paris, we just saw what happened in Egypt? It seems that they have more capabilities than ever, not fewer.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, they're making some progress some places, but then like a pop-up mall sort of situation, it's popping up elsewhere. We've seen it here. We've seen it in Beirut, Turkey, all over the place. The Russian passenger plane.

So, the thing is, yes, there have been successes because they keep telling us, you know, a few months ago we never would have had the coalition we do. We would never have the peace track that we do. We would never been able to put special forces on the ground.

So, of course, the question is, well, if you can do it now, why didn't you do it earlier, before this metastasize into this vile army?

CUOMO: Great word.

AMANPOUR: Now, here's the real serious thing -- Josh Earnest said there's no military solution to this. True. In the long term, it has to be a political, you know, economic, cultural solution to this issue and a de-radicalization and destroying the ideology.

[06:50:04] However, most military analysts who I speak to, including former NATO officials, including CNN analysts, military analysts say, right now, there needs to be a military solution. You have to eradicate ISIS and that's not going to happen with some nice de- radicalization programs or some slow, you know, play the long game, try to push them back.

CUOMO: It's going to be might makes right for two main reasons, Jim.

AMANPOUR: So, military first and then the long game.

CUOMO: Absolutely. Everybody has always understood that combination. You're right, it's in short supply right now in terms of balance.

But, Jim, why do you need to take them out where they are?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The reason there's a military rule is you have to deny them their safe haven, as an operating base which has both propaganda, philosophical value. They established an Islamic State. They are now a magnet for every Islamist in the world.

Two, it allows them operationally to carry out attacks. We're seeing that here. The argument, the statistic that Josh Earnest use is one, it's weeks old. I've heard it from the administration going back months, that they've denied them 25 percent their territory in populated areas in Iraq and Syria. I looked at the map. It's hard to figure out to me what they're talking about there.

I mean, at the minimum, they can say that they stopped the territorial advance of ISIS in Iraq and Syria. The far more difficult argument to make, which he made, they're denying them a safe haven there. I mean, listen, if you've plotted an attack on the streets of Paris and in the span of a week brought down a Russian plane and killed 60 some odd people on the streets of Beirut with suicide bombers, you have enough of a safe haven to project terror power beyond those borders.

Meanwhile, greater territory being gained in the Sinai, in Libya and elsewhere, it's just a very difficult argument to make that you have made military progress against this group.

CUOMO: And we're going to get a different --

AMANPOUR: The acceleration needs to happen.

CUOMO: Yes.

AMANPOUR: It needs to accelerate all of this, more power projection to do this. French President Francois Hollande has said -- and we're going to hear him soon -- that Syria is, quote, "The biggest terrorist factory in the world right now."

CUOMO: The threat is real. They know what they have to do. The question is, when it will be done and how.

We're waiting on French President Francois Hollande to explain what happen here over the last few hours and what he believes needs to happen.

We'll take a quick break. Stay with CNN's continuing coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:56:03] CAMEROTA: We are following a lot breaking news at this hour.

A new terror plot in Paris foiled and we're told just in the nick of time. A major police raid in nearby Saint-Denis taking out two terror suspects. CNN being told they were moments away from executing a new operation.

This was launched after intelligence suggested that the mastermind of Friday's attacks could be at this location, but his fate at this hour is unclear. Seven people, though, are under arrest in connection with this new raid.

So, joining me to talk about all of this is our CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem.

Juliette, thanks so much for being here to give us some context.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: So, authorities believe they stopped a second wave that was cued up and ready to go. What is to stop us from thinking there's a third wave now cued up somewhere in Paris ready to go?

KAYYEM: Well, I -- the French are basing everything they're doing in the next couple days on that assumption, because you're just simply not going to get an all-clear from these terrorists. And so, whatever they found today will then lead to a potential investigation of anything that might have happened in the future.

I just want to point out how unique this is in terms of the density of the streets for police tactics, this is a very challenging, I don't know if any civilians were hurt yet. But this is -- this is different. This is not the caves of Afghanistan. And we've been talking a lot about Syria and other places. Look, the

French have a French problem. Almost everyone they've picked up is a French citizen and they're hiding in plain sight. That just makes it very different in terms of a counterterrorism effort for the French right now.

CAMEROTA: As you know, ISIS has put out a threat saying that the U.S. will be next. How much stock do you put in that?

KAYYEM: I would take it seriously at this stage. You know, we just don't know if it's tough talk. Obviously, we are separated from Europe by an ocean that protects us. We have strong, not perfect strong controls on immigration. It's hard for a group of people to get here and simultaneously form and plan an attack.

I never say that it will never happen. We always also have the lone wolf problem. Anyone could have been radicalized or copycat based on Friday.

I think one of the interesting things in the last couple minutes, though, is the presence of Al Abaaoud, whether he's there or not.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: The mastermind. French police said they were trying to target him but why are you skeptical?

KAYYEM: I'm not skeptical. It doesn't make sense from their perspective why you would put the operational mastermind in the same city where you're planning these attacks. It's a new tactic if true, because you keep the mastermind safe because presumably he's planning waves two and three.

So, we'll find out who they have. But it's -- I don't want to say I'm skeptical, but it would be very unique to have the mastermind in the city where they're planning this.

CAMEROTA: And just very quickly, Juliette, you are surprised this is happening in an area of residential density, because normally people then might be alerted to what was going on. Your neighbors might hear something, but somehow they're able to fly under the radar.

KAYYEM: Right, I mean, they're probably sleeping in small -- you know, with only three or four per apartment. They may be meeting in public places so they don't look suspicious. They said they're hiding in plain sight.

It's a different way of thinking about it than we had in the last ten years. We're talking about these guys in caves, right? This is just no longer true. This is urban -- this is urban counterterrorism efforts and police are adapting to it, because you have to protect civilians. You do.

I mean, we don't know if civilians were hurt. You see the streets. It's dense.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it sure is. It's been incredible to watch this unfold over the past few hours.

Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much. Always great to get your expertise.

KAYYEM: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of breaking news this morning, so let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.