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Putin to Cooperate with U.S.-Led War Against ISIS; Chicago Protesters Plan Black Friday March; Shoppers Out in Droves for Black Friday Sales; Pope Wraps Up Historic Trip to Kenya. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired November 27, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: But this sudden spirit of cooperation, it could be fragile.

[06:59:59] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Russian leader furious with Turkey for shooting down one of its warplanes, calling it an act of betrayal. We are learning more this morning about the dramatic rescue of the Russian co-pilot who ejected from that burning plane.

Let's get the latest on these breaking developments from Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Well, Vladimir Putin may be talking about cooperation, maybe even the concept of joining the coalition, but don't count on it just yet, according to U.S. officials. There are the political statements coming from leaders in various capitals.

But on the ground, there is a very difficult military reality. U.S. officials now watching around the clock as the Russians begin to unload components of the S-400 anti-air missile system that they say they are putting into Syria.

This could be the real game changer on the ground. This is a missile system that can reach out and shoot down aircraft, deep inside Turkish air space and in Syrian air space. That is what causes the problems for the U.S.

The U.S. officials, military officials tell me they are going to have to have some sort of understanding. If this missile system gets turned on, if it goes fully operational by the Russians inside Syria, they need to determine what it is going to mean for U.S. warplanes flying in the coalition, leading the coalition, in airstrikes in that region.

So there is really a long way to go before there is going to be cooperation, a coalition with the Russians inside the coalition, not just yet, perhaps -- John.

BERMAN: And Barbara, there's a really interesting twist this morning about the Russian co-pilot who did survive the shoot-down. STARR: Absolutely. Now both Russian and Iranian media are --

state media are reporting that the Iranians -- a very interesting Iranian general commanded, essentially, the rescue mission, the head of the Iranian re Revolutionary Guard Corps, General Qassem Soleimani, someone the U.S. watches very carefully, a very powerful military figure in Iran.

The state media are reporting that he commanded, essentially, the rescue mission in that area of Turkey. And also reports now that essentially the Russians on the ground since the rescue mission have been able to basically control this area in northern Syria, that they have essentially dealt, in their way, perhaps killing what they say are the Turkmen rebels that they believe were responsible in the first place for shooting the Russian aircraft down -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us. Thanks so much, Barbara.

Want to bring in retired Major General James "Spider" Marks, a CNN military analyst and now the executive dean at the University of Phoenix, and counterterrorism expert and senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, Daveed Gartenstein-Ross.

General, let me start with you. Color me skeptical here. Vladimir Putin, we're making a big deal of it, that, sure, he's open to cooperating with the United States. Does he really mean it?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I would take that at a significant arm's length. But it is an opening. This is the first time we've really heard this.

And what I think he's really saying is, "Look, I want to be a part of this, and if not a part of it, I'll do what I want to do," which he's already demonstrated that that's a behavior that they're willing to take on.

But the key thing is, if it were to be a cooperative type of an engagement, I mean, there are a lot of details that have to take place when you're trying to de-conflict air space. We're trying to exchange target packages. We're not going to exchange intelligence. We might exchange targetable intelligence, actionable intelligence, but that's what we call tear line. We can't give them the raw stuff.

But what that takes, is that would take some United Nations or some other body that Russia would be able to sign up to, in order to be the lead on that. Well, the problem with that is in the interim, until that gets established, what is Russia going to do relative to what the coalition is already doing? And we've already seen the challenges of that. We've got Turkey shooting down a Russian aircraft.

BERMAN: "If you do it the way I want, the way I say, then I will let you cooperate with me the way I tell you to," Daveed. Is that essentially what Vladimir Putin is saying?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Yes, I think that's essentially what he's saying. I mean, Putin is very clear in most everything that he does that it's going to be done on his terms. He's very much known for brinksmanship. So is Erdogan, essentially, which is one reason I think that the shoot-down of the Russian plane ended up happening.

But Putin has made very clear that he -- he wants things to be done his way. You see that in the Ukraine. He's doing that again in Syria. And you know, it's not necessarily rational. It doesn't necessarily make him evil, but that is the kind of cooperation that he offers, cooperation on his terms.

BERMAN: Now, the future of Assad, Daveed, has come up. I mean, Putin says it's going to be up to the people of Syria. The United States says, well, at the end of this, Assad has got to go.

Now we have the French foreign minister. You have the French sort of speaking in language that's getting a little bit confusing. Because they say there needs to be a ground force here. Whenever Russia talks about that, they mean a Syrian ground force. And now France seems to have opened the door, at least a little bit, to that.

[07:05:19] GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Right, the question of what to be done with Assad is one of the questions that has bedeviled the coalition. That's also one of the contributing factors to this, a very complex conflict. The fact that Russia and Turkey, even though they're both anti-ISIL, are also on different sides of the war with respect to Assad.

The thinking with respect to Assad going is that Assad is the root cause of the conflict. And so you can't actually solve the problem of Syria, the problem of ISIL's rise, without solving for Assad. But it gets very complex when you get to the question of, what happens after Assad falls?

A lot of people fear that the best-case scenario would be like the fall of Kabul after the communist regime collapsed there. That it would descend into an anarchy, and that the religious minorities, the coastal areas that have been protected by Assad, would then be victimized. If so, then while Assad is, I think, everyone can agree, a brutal dictator, it doesn't mean that toppling him will actually solve the conflict or even make things better.

BERMAN: Spider, Daveed brought up an interesting comparison there when he talked about Russia and Turkey right now, talking about Erdogan and Putin. Basically, Daveed is suggesting what you have here is two schoolyard bullies, used to getting their way, engaged in, now, a fight with each other, each unwilling to say they're sorry. How dangerous does it make it for the rest of us while that's going on?

MARKS: Well, it does. It's a considerable challenge, primarily because when Erdogan does what he has done, he brings in the rest of all the NATO powers. So this is a fight that involves all of NATO. Clearly, the United States is a lead position in this.

So it's a -- it's a much larger concern that we have. Putin, by the way, he's not an international pariah, but we do understand his behavior. He is not irrational, as Daveed indicated. This is a very rational -- you know, this is a power politics type of a leader.

And Russia, historically, going back centuries, Russia benefits when there's turmoil on its near abroad. When it's on its borders and people are upside-down and naked and having a big time, he benefits from this. So, he has created this concern along his border, and it works exactly to his benefit.

So he now -- he now sits back and says, "I want to be a part of this game. I want to contribute," and we listen to this. We dialogue with him. This works exactly to his benefit.

BERMAN: And Daveed, you know, Putin and Erdogan, they're not de- escalating the way you're supposed to in a conflict like this. They're not letting the tensions ease the way normally countries do in a situation like this. To a certain extent, they're making it worse.

How do they get out of this? I mean, is some kind of a face-to- face meeting during these climate talks, is that even possible?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: That's a good question. I mean, look, at the end of the day, right now, they're not in danger of coming to much more in the way of military blows.

I mean, Russia has been talking about imposing its own set of sanctions on Turkey and not doing business with them. I'm not sure that they are going to back down. I'm not sure that either of them needs to back down.

Because, look, the situation in Syria overall, has been one of escalation. One of escalation on the anti-Assad side, one of escalation on the pro-Assad side. And the Russia-Turkey conflict is part and parcel of that trend towards escalation rather than de- escalation. So look, I don't know the answer, but if I'm placing my money, it's on that they don't de-escalate.

BERMAN: Spider, one question off this a little bit. One of the possibilities with these attackers in Paris right now, maybe they fled to Belgium. Maybe they're headed back to Syria.

Spider, if any of these guys -- Saleh Abdeslam, for instance, -- does go back to Syria, does that make him harder to spot there, or is that the type of place where the United States and France and the coalition could carry out some successful operations?

MARKS: John, he's already hard to spot. I mean, he's the most wanted man in Europe, but he could be in Damascus right now. He could be in Raqqah right now. You know, you can drive from Syria all the way to Calais. This is not difficult. I doubt he's there. It would be very hard to find, to find him in Syria.

All that indicates is the much broader challenge we have. And you have this incredibly conventional ISIS-led power that has increased its ability to expand its influence.

And at the same time, it has a really precise special ops capability, if you will, enabled to do operations like we saw in Paris. That's the concern that we have moving forward, is being able to get our arms around all of that.

So what is -- what is the best path forward? I would suggest at this point, the opportunity, the open door to work and try to cooperate with Russia is a good deal. And we should try to take that, not naively, from a position of strength, but we need to be able to move in that direction.

BERMAN: All right. General Spider Marks, Daveed Gartenstein- Ross, thanks so much for being with us. Guys, appreciate it.

MARKS: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Michaela.

[07:10:08] PEREIRA: All right. A big development in Mali. Special forces there arresting two men as alleged accomplices in the hotel terror attack in the country's capital. The suspects, both from Mali, were found thanks to a cell phone left behind at the scene.

Two attackers were killed during the siege last Friday at the Radisson Blu hotel that killed 20, including an American. One hundred seventy hostages were freed after a standoff that lasted more than seven hours. Three Islamic militant groups have claimed responsibility.

BERMAN: More breaking news, ISIS now claiming responsibility for a deadly attack on a Shiite mosque in northern Bangladesh. At least one person was killed, three people hurt when several gunman opened fire. At least 20 worshippers were in the mosque for prayers when the incident unfolded. This is the second attack in a month on the country's small Shia population.

PEREIRA: Back here at home, breaking news out of Chicago. Police have made an arrest in connection with the murder of that 9- year-old in an alley.

Also in Chicago, protesters today plan a march on this Black Friday to a popular shopping district, looking to bring attention to the video that was released this week showing a white officer gunning down a black teenager.

Ryan Young is live in Chicago with all of the developments for us, a very rainy Chicago morning.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, major developments here, Michaela. Good morning to you.

I can tell, look, they've made an arrest in the Tyshawn Lee case. This is a case that rocked Chicago. When you think about it, a 9- year-old lured into an alley and shot several times, execution-style. That young man killed. We, of course, attended his funeral and covered it for days.

Chicago police have been working the streets to find out whoever did this. We learned about the arrest the last hour. It's news that a lot of people in Chicago wanted to hear, because this, of course, is a violent gang war going on in Chicago. And this young man is one of the casualties.

A lot of people are saying, enough is enough with this violence, especially when you look at a 9-year-old who was killed in an alley.

Moving right to the next part, we know this is Black Friday. A lot of people talking about shopping. But we do know religious leaders plan to march up Michigan Avenue and stop some of the Black Friday sales. In fact, they talked about what they planned to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And sit down in the street and block the street on Michigan Avenue, with civil disobedience, peacefully, and say, "You know what? Business as usual can't go on while our children are dying."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: We know there's a lot of passion here in Chicago right now after the video was released of Laquan McDonald being shot 16 times, a lot of those shots happening while he was on the ground. People in Chicago want to know why it took so long for them to see this video.

Preparation for this day has been going on for quite some time. We know the marchers have been out for several days. Last night was quiet, but we know people were planning for Black Friday. That will happen. People will be looking to see what happens today during this protest that will happen here on Michigan Avenue -- guys.

BERMAN: Right. Ryan Young for us in Chicago, that protest planned for 11 a.m. in Chicago. Thanks, Ryan.

As Ryan was saying, today is Black Friday shopping. People are doing it, out already. Many people started last night, in fact, going bargain hunting at stores that would not close for any reason.

CNN's Cristina Alesci is live inside Macy's in New York's Herald Square.

Good morning, Cristina.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

That's right. The store did not shut down. Particularly, Macy's opened its doors at 6 p.m. last night and has remained open. And you can see the crowds behind me. People are shopping.

We talked to some people outside, in line, at stores like H&M since 2 a.m. Now they're coming in. They're filing into stores. And this is not going to stop. We're going to see this all day long.

I know that you guys were talking about the death of brick-and- mortar spending, but it looks like people are keeping up the tradition in Herald Square, at least, in New York City. So far, though, there's a lot of private security guards making

sure that things remain fairly orderly. Not so much the case in some other parts of the country. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESCI (voice-over): Overnight, an all-out battle at stores across the nation. Just hours into the brutal chase for bargains.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got my fist up to somebody tries to steal something from me.

ALESCI: In Louisville, Kentucky, Black Friday madness. Two men punching and tearing at each other's T-shirt inside a major city mall.

Tempers flared at this Wal-Mart in El Paso. Holiday shoppers appeared to fight over flat-screen TVs, even taking on store security.

The yearly stampede spilling into front doors, a welcome sight for retailers hoping to cash in on the holiday frenzy. Sales expected to reach $80 billion in the U.S...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We made it!

[07:15:05] ALESCI: ... the average American spending close to $400 throughout the holiday weekend, with some brick-and-mortar stores now handing out a select number of tickets to people in line for the hottest items.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're able to ticket numbers one through whatever we have. That way it stops a lot of the chaos from happening.

ALESCI: Some shoppers camping out for days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've been here since Tuesday night at 9:30.

ALESCI: All in an effort to nab great deals, like this 50-inch flat-screen TV at Best Buy, marked down nearly 75 percent off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's exciting. If it's something that you want and it's worth it, why not go and get it?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALESCI: You know, there's a lot of craziness in retailers across the country, but just fto put some context on this, this is a pretty important day for the American economy. Consumer spending, of course, accounts for 70 percent of the gross domestic product in this country, and a critical day for retailers that haven't seen the kind of consumer spending they'd like to see. So these next couple of weeks could make or break their years -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Critical and important to these retailers, maybe not worth getting into fisticuffs about for a flat-screen TV. All right, Cristina. We'll check back in with you a little later on this Black Friday.

Overseas, Pope Francis is wrapping up an historic three-day trip to Kenya. He is on his way to Uganda. In fact, I think we have a live camera of his departure ceremony.

During his visit, he addressed a number of issues, from animal poaching and climate change to poverty and the lack of basic services, like clean drinking water.

Robyn Kriel has been covering the pope's African trip, and she joins us live from Nairobi this morning, or today, I guess it is now.

Hi, Robyn.

ROBYN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there.

Yes, it's this afternoon here in Nairobi, Kenya, as you said. The pope is taking off shortly. He's at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport in his Popemobile.

He has spent the last few days driving around in a four-door Hyundai, an incredibly humble vehicle. Has lots of Kenyans talking about the fact that he doesn't drive fancy armored limousines or Range Rovers like some of the politicians in Africa and the rest of the world.

And that was his message today: austerity and a message of -- at least at the Kasarani Stadium, a message against corruption. He says corruption is sweet like sugar, but if you have too much, then your country can become diabetic.

But he did go on, Michaela, to say that there is also corruption within the Vatican. And that is what he is trying to root out.

He's heading to Kampala, Uganda, today, where he will spend one night, and then -- sorry, two nights -- and then on Monday, he is headed to the Central African Republic. That will be the most dangerous portion of his trip. It look like that trip might be canceled for a while, but it does look like it's still back on at the moment.

United Nations have sent extra forces from the United Nations base in the Ivory Coast to help keep the pope safe.

But it was an incredible visit. He visited a slum very early this morning, talking to a number of people there. And he said it was a very fulfilling time, indeed. Lots of good messages coming from this pontiff -- Michaela.

BERMAN: Right. I'll take it, Robyn. Robyn Kriel for us in Nairobi, thanks so much.

We have some developing blimp news this morning. A blimp flying over traffic for the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade ran into some trouble, apparently. The pilot hit strong winds, and low fuel forced to it make an emergency landing in a school baseball field on Long Island. People on the ground apparently helped out, which is what you do when a blimp lands on your baseball field.

PEREIRA: Sure.

BERMAN: You help out. It is the American thing to do.

PEREIRA: Oh, yes, when you see the blimp kind of deflate like that, that is very...

BERMAN: and they helped out. That's what you do. No one was hurt.

PEREIRA: Moving right along, obviously, we're watching the situation in Chicago. Racial tensions still simmering there, with demands for a federal investigation of the Laquan McDonald shooting. Does the officer charged with murder have a defense? We'll ask our legal experts, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:22:56] PEREIRA: Chicago demonstrators planning a major black protest -- Black Friday protest this morning over the shooting death of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald. A white officer fired 16 rounds at McDonald -- into him, essentially. He was brandishing a knife, acting erratically, according to police reports. The officer's attorney says he believes he can successfully defend his client. The question is how.

For that, we turn to a couple of legal experts we happen to have on set. I've got legal analyst for HLN, Joey Jackson; and alongside him is CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos. Two defense attorneys. You guys are the guys to ask about this. This is quite a situation.

Just to set the stage, I want to play the sound from the officer's attorney, Dan Herbert, of what he says his strategy is going to be. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN HERBERT, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER JASON VAN DYKE: Everyone is looking for something on the video that would show Mr. McDonald charging at my client or raising his knife and moving in his direction; and it doesn't not [SIC] necessarily show that. But that does not mean that my client's actions were criminal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: He goes on to say that he's going to use science to prove that it's not uncommon to -- for victims to be shot in the back, in a situation like this. I don't know how that's defensible. Sixteen times into somebody that has already fallen to the ground, 14 more times after they have fallen to the ground.

So let's talk about this. How -- how do you, as a defense attorney, justify this shooting?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I've been thinking about this, and this is the way I would defend this case. A couple of different attacks. No. 1, training. Show that these officers are trained, that virtually anything can be a threat. There are even studies out there that you can find that suggest that even a prone suspect, someone lying on their stomach, could be concealing a weapon.

And that's really -- that goes to the heart of this issue, that with police officers, we train them, at any moment in time, someone is potentially a threat. No matter where they're laying, standing, moving. Even a furtive moment. You know that line. I see that line in police reports all the time, a furtive movement towards the waistband. Any of those articulated facts can give rise to reasonable suspicion, all the way up to probable cause.

[07:25:05] PEREIRA: Even if the other five officers on scene didn't feel it appropriate?

CEVALLOS; Well, Michaela, I said I would come up with a defense. I didn't say it would be an airtight one. I'm just taking us down the path I suspect they will go.

When he says he will use science, they will likely cite those studies and other studies that suggest that a suspect can play -- play compliant, fake compliance, and then rush him. Other studies will show will show that, even after being shot a couple times, a suspect can still get up.

Now, listen, this is -- all I'm saying is this is what I think they will put out as a defense.

PEREIRA: This is a way.

CEVALLOS: I don't know that it will be successful.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: If the judge permits them to do that, because remember, facts and cases are about that those particular facts. And we can cite studies until all day, all year...

PEREIRA: OK.

JACKSON: ... but what we have to do is make it relevant to this.

Now, you know, look, the problem that he has here, we know what the problems are. Do you believe, Michaela, your lying eyes? The fact is, is that the jury is going to have to see and evaluate that.

So you, as a defense attorney, are going to have to place something in your client's mind, such that he would be such in imminent fear for his life. Now that becomes very problematic. OK?

PEREIRA: So let me ask you about this point.

JACKSON: Yes.

PEREIRA: And I know I asked it of you, but this -- it seems incontrovertible, the fact that there were other officers on scene. He also arrived quickly... JACKSON: Yes.

PEREIRA: ... jumped out of his car and started firing quickly. There were other officers on scene who didn't feel the need...

JACKSON: To fire their...

PEREIRA: ... to open fire.

CEVALLOS: Problem (ph).

PEREIRA: That is problematic.

JACKSON: It is, but here's how the will defense will address that. And I think his lawyer is addressing it now. And again, I don't know that it will be successful, but he's saying, "Look at the perspective of my client. Everybody on that scene has a vantage point of their own. Everyone on that scene has a certain and different level of threat."

PEREIRA: Yes.

JACKSON: Now, in the event that you're closer to the person, which his attorney is arguing, his threat assessment is going...

PEREIRA: To be different.

JACKSON: ... to be different than someone who's away. So you can have eight, nine, ten officers. Were they, in your perspective, were they, in your point of view, acting unreasonably, because they didn't fire? That will be a defense.

PEREIRA: OK. Let's talk about this officer for a second. He joined Chicago P.D. in 2001, 14-year career. In that time, at least 18 citizen complaints against him ranging from excessive force to the use of racial slurs. Never been disciplined, we know that. Can that be presented in court, and can that be problematic?

CEVALLOS: Well, I think what this shows is that there are all kinds of -- when it comes to police officers, they get complaints lodged against them fairly often. And the critical fact to me there is that, if none of them were founded, then as a defense attorney, I would strongly argue...

PEREIRA: He wasn't disciplined. Right.

CEVALLOS: ... for the inadmissibility of those. I would argue to exclude that evidence if I can, keep it out. Because especially in the case where it's unfounded, police officers are open to criticism by the public, and they frequently are.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CEVALLOS: Does that mean there is potentially something there?

PEREIRA: Where there's smoke, there's fire. CEVALLOS: Yes, but we have all kinds of evidence that may be

probative of effect that ultimately is inadmissible at trial for fundamental fairness.

PEREIRA: Can training be -- can training be brought into this?

CEVALLOS: Absolutely.

JACKSON: There will be a lot said with training. The issue will be -- experts will differ over whether was this in his training or did he act outside the training?

Now, briefly, on the issue of past complaints, these are prior bad acts. And I count at least ten of them that go to the issue of use of force. And so what's going to happen is, from a prosecutor's perspective, you want them in, not to show propensity, that he has a propensity for violence. It would be inadmissible. But to show motive, intent, common plan and scheme, and so you want them in.

The issue becomes, are they overly prejudicial? Because again, cases have to be about what you did now, not what you did yesterday...

PEREIRA: Yes.

JACKSON: ... the day before, the day before that.

PEREIRA: Well, we certainly know the defense attorney has his challenges set out for him.

JACKSON: Thank you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Thanks so much for slicing through with us. We appreciate it, Joey and Danny -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Michaela, thanks so much.

A dangerous competition, ISIS versus al Qaeda. Why this might be one of the most concerning things being discussed in the White House situation room as we move forward. Stay with us.

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