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Protests & Security Mark Climate Summit in Paris; Planned Parenthood Massacre Suspect Due in Court; Chicago Officer Charged in Teen's Death Due in Court. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 30, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Protests breaking out as world leaders convene in Paris.

[05:58:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Historic negotiations over how to fight climate change.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Republicans have threatened to starve the president of the money he needs to execute the U.S. part of this deal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You could see all of the gunshots. And oh, my God, it terrified me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a classic case of domestic terrorism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is somebody who certainly had anti- abortion and anti-government views.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have any information from the investigation yet as to what the precise motive was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole damn system is guilty as hell!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole damn system is guilty as hell!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole damn system is guilty as hell!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Chicago police officer charged in the fatal shooting of a black teenager will face a judge today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole damn system is guilty as hell! This officer went overboard.

DAN HERBERT, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER JASON VAN DYKE: This is not a murder case. We feel that we're going to be very successful in defending this case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo... CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

It is Monday, November 30, 6 a.m. in the East. Alisyn and Mick are in New York, and we are in Paris.

The authorities here are very much on edge. There's a frenzy of police activity continuing in the hopes of getting a handle of this spider web of radical jihadists that are in and around Paris.

Nevertheless, 147 heads of state arrived for today's commencement of the 21st conference of the parties on climate change, the Cop 21. As some say holding the U.N. event is a show of strength. Others see it as a real risk.

Now, to be sure, there is unprecedented security in the wake of the terror attacks here. The French have never had more force in effect than they do this morning.

That being said, things are not completely locked down. Thousands demonstrating at the Plaza de la Republique despite a ban on protests, led to violent -- you saw violent conflicts there right on your screen right now. That's what happened between police and these protestors, despite all the security and prohibitions. Hundreds were arrested right at the memorial for the attack victims.

Now right now, leaders from major countries, including France and the U.S., are going to be presenting their visions for cutting carbon emissions, but security is on everyone's mind.

We have CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta beginning our coverage at the Paris climate change conference.

Jim, it's good to have you. The U.S. and China seen as leading the way here. News comes of a meeting between the leaders as we get ready to hear from the president in a few minutes here. What do you know?

ACOSTA: That's right, Chris.

Those two leaders, President Obama and President Xi of China, they're trying to set the tone of this climate summit, trying to show that the two biggest economies in the world, the two biggest carbon emitters in the world can commit to controls on carbon emissions, then so can everyone else.

But as you mentioned, Chris, it was a somber start to this climate summit as every world leader gathered here, observed a moment of silence this morning in honor of the victims of the Paris attacks. As soon as President Obama landed in France overnight, he was whisked over to the Bataclan theater just down the street from the Plaza de la Republique, where he laid a single white rose in memory of the people murdered by ISIS in this city.

The French capital is very much on edge in the aftermath of the attacks on November 13. Protesters clashed with French authorities Sunday over new rules that were set to clamp down on large-scale demonstrations in this city. There is intense security in place throughout Paris. I saw it

myself when President Obama visited the Bataclan last night. That security in place to protect the more than 100 world leaders at these climate talks.

President Obama and President Xi, as we mentioned, they've already met this morning. They discussed this climate summit, as well as the war on ISIS. The president paying his respects to the Chinese national who was murdered by ISIS, a hostage that was murdered by ISIS.

These leaders are in pursuit of a climate agreement here, Chris, that will commit nearly every country on earth to big reductions in carbon emissions over the coming decades. Climate scientists aren't so sure it will be enough to avert the most serious effects of global warming.

But the battle against ISIS is also a very big topic on the agenda for President Obama, Chris. He'll meet with French President Francois Hollande once again later this evening to get an update on the French president's meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow last week. They still have to focus on ISIS, even with this big climate summit under way here in Paris -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Jim, thank you very much for that.

Let's bring in CNN chief international correspondent and host of "AMANPOUR," Christiane Amanpour.

Now, you've been talking to a lot of the big minds, both French and abroad, about what they want to achieve here. What is the main agenda?

AMANPOUR: The main agenda, as everybody said, I talked to David Attenborough, who you know spoke with President Obama a few months ago. And he's the world's eminent, you know, expert on naturalism. Like everybody, he's saying this is the last-ditch attempt to stop the temperatures rising beyond 2 degrees. That's their...

CUOMO: The wind doesn't seem to be a problem.

AMANPOUR: The wind doesn't -- we can blame this on climate change. But in any event, we're in a wind tunnel right now.

But anyway, so there -- the bottom line is how do you stop the emission of carbons in a way that is not too painfully expensive, especially on poor countries? You know, India, for instance, they say, "Hey, you've had your economy. Now we need to burn coal." China is saying the same thing. So that is one of the big, big issues that needs to be done.

David Attenborough says that, look, America put an astronaut on the moon ten years after President Kennedy said that's going to happen. We can do this. We just need the political will.

As for the security around here, I talked to the French defense minister. He has said that they've got something like 10,000 military deployed all over and that he's absolutely confident about the security for this summit. And he also commented, like all the French have, on those demonstrations last night. These were the anti- capitalists who always come out of these globalization summits.

CUOMO: They weren't -- this wasn't Muslim protesters. This was nothing like that.

AMANPOUR: No, no, no. These were anti-capitalists who didn't want to do it. And because they took it to the memorial...

CUOMO: Right.

AMANPOUR: ... where these people have been killed and are now being memorialized. He said it's undignified, it's a shame, and all the French press is saying the same thing. Yes, people should be able to demonstrate, but to take it that far and to take it to that place at this time was a disgrace.

CUOMO: Now, let me poach a little bit of the other reporting that you have here. There's planning about the environment going on, no question. But there's also going to be more planning going on with all these heads of state here.

AMANPOUR: Yes.

CUOMO: Question know they're planning meetings, ancillary meetings let's say. One of the reckonings is going to be what do you do in Syria, vis-a-vis Assad. There's now a division in the United States about how much emphasis to put on the battle against Assad versus ISIS. What is the word that you're hearing in terms of whether Assad's troops will be part of coalition resistance of ISIS?

AMANPOUR: Well, I think there's been a huge confusion about that. So I specifically asked the defense minister about it. He said, look, the position of France is very clear. But Assad's forces will not be part of this fight. They are not part of this fight. They will not be part of this fight as long as they are under Assad's command. If there's a transition, and Assad goes and they -- you know, they can be dragooned into this fight, OK. But not under Assad's leadership. So that's that. That's the base (ph) of that.

[06:05:01] CUOMO: What does that do for Russian participation?

AMANPOUR: Well, I don't know what Russia's saying about Assad's forces. Another thing that's going to be very interesting to see is the relationship between Russia and Turkey. Obviously, Erdogan, after having shot down that plane, is now seeking a meeting with Putin. We're not sure whether that's going to happen.

CUOMO: Putin is putting some restrictions in place.

AMANPOUR: Well, yes -- they've been applying sanctions.

CUOMO: Sanctions. AMANPOUR: So that's one issue. Another issue is the multi-

headed sort of hydra of coalitions against ISIS. And the French defense minister said it has to be a joined coalition. So they're trying to get Russia on board.

And they say that they've noticed, certainly in the last few days, perhaps weeks, that Russia seems to be hitting more ISIS targets than it did before. So we're waiting to see if that happens. But they're very concerned also about ISIS popping up in Libya.

CUOMO: Yes.

AMANPOUR: That's the latest reporting. "The New York Times" has a big article about it. But we've been reporting about how it's been popping up its head up everywhere. They're very concerned about that. But right now, no plans to take on ISIS by the coalition in Libya at the moment.

CUOMO: Now, we have to report on this aspect. Because they're going to be talking about that. You have 147 heads of state here. To believe they won't be discussing the war against ISIS and what happened here in Paris two weeks ago would be naive.

But there is business at hand. And when you get to this idea of you laid out very eloquently India says, "You had your industrial revolution, now we're having it. We want the same advantage as you have with fossil fuels." Where is the space of movement there?

AMANPOUR: Well, there are a couple of issues. One, the developed countries, the rich countries, including China, have pledged 100 -- and this didn't happen here. It happened before. A 100 billion dollars, I believe, a year to help poorer countries, and they include India in that, to actually, you know, develop and try to get a hold on their carbon emissions.

India saying, "It's not enough. We can't do it." But they have to be able to figure that out.

The other thing is -- and we're going to be talking to Bill Gates later on. How do you invest huge amounts of money and convince governments and others in R&D that billions of dollars of investment into alternative fuel, and most importantly into being able to capture and store the alternative renewables that they have right now, that that is actually a wise investment?

And in the end it will be net positive to our GDPs, rather than a net negative. And so it's -- a lot is the economic argument. How do you persuade countries that the economic argument in the future will actually serve them?

CUOMO: Well, great setup to what the agenda is here, both specifically with climate and the larger environmental issue of terror that they're dealing with.

And good bump tease. Bill Gates, a big part of the solution here is going to be public/private partnerships. Bill Gates is going to announce a huge initiative with President Obama involving other private investors. He wanted to talk to Christiane Amanpour. She was generous enough to do it on NEW DAY. So as we get back to Alisyn and Michaela, we'll have Bill Gates expressing what the mandate for change is. Christiane and I will do that interview for you in a little while.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That is great. We'll look forward to that, and as Michaela just said, maybe you could harness some wind energy.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Maybe you could throw that out.

PEREIRA: As a suggestion.

CUOMO: Christiane is a real pro. I would have gotten up and left in that wind.

CAMEROTA: We know that. All right. Thanks so much, guys. We'll be back to you shortly.

Breaking overnight, U.S. embassy officials in Kabul issuing a serious warning: credible threats of an imminent attack in Afghanistan capital within the next 48 hours, they say. No word, though, on a specific target. Officials warning Americans in the area to take extreme caution.

PEREIRA: Also breaking this morning, two Israelis convicted in a Jerusalem court for the revenge killing of a Palestinian teenager last year. However, the court delayed a verdict for a third suspect, due to a last-minute insanity plea. Prosecutors say the trio abducted 16- year-old Mohammed Abu Khdeir as he waited to enter a mosque. They beat him and burned him to death. His murder sparked massive riots in the run-up to last year's 50-day Gaza war.

CAMEROTA: Here in the U.S., a man suspect of killing three people at that Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood clinic is expected in court today, as even more disturbing details emerge about the suspect.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is love in Colorado Springs with the very latest. What have you learned, Stephanie?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Now, today, this morning, we have learned that it is a devoted mother, an Iraq war veteran and a beloved police officer from this community that lost their lives in the shooting here on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM (voice-over): This morning, the two civilians killed in the brazen shooting at a Planned Parenthood in Colorado are now identified. Authorities say 29-year-old Iraq War veteran Ke'Arre Marcell Stewart and 36-year-old mother of two, Jennifer Markovsky, were shot and killed Friday, along with university officer Garrett Swayze, by 57-year-old Robert Dear.

Investigators are now trying to zero in on Dear's motive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots! I'm under fire, shots!

ELAM: After a bloody six-hour stand-off, leaving the three dead and nine more injured, Dear made remarks about, quote, "baby parts" after surrendering, according to a law enforcement official. The official also says the suspect expressed anti-abortion and anti- government views to officers. Neighbors say Dear once gave them anti- Obama flyers.

[06:10:12] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Handed us some Obama flyers and this is like, "If you have time to look at this later."

ELAM: It's still unclear whether these opinions may have motivated the deadly assault.

JOHN SUTHERS, MAYOR OF COLORADO SPRINGS: You can certainly infer what it may have been in terms of where it took place and the manner in which it took place.

ELAM: This shooting comes just a few months after a series of videos produced by anti-abortion activists were released.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I used to babysit her when she was small.

ELAM: Meanwhile, family members of victim Jennifer Markovsky remembered a devoted stay-at-home mother.

JOEY BAUTISTA, MARKOVSKY FAMILY FRIEND: You asked her for help, she helped.

NANCY KERRIGAN, OLYMPIC MEDALIST: David Swayze picked me up at school every day in high school and drove me to the ice rink.

ELAM: Former Olympian and figure skating legend Nancy Kerrigan grieves over the loss of Officer Swayze. The two skated together as children and were family friends.

KERRIGAN: You can't explain it. It's horrific and sad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And later today, Robert Dear is expected to be arraigned from here, the El Paso County Criminal Justice Center. But we understand it will be by video conference so no one will be in the room with him when this happens -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We've seen that happen for security reasons. Stephanie, thank you for that update. Coming up in our next hour, we'll be joined by Planned Parenthood's executive vice president, Dawn Laguens, on what Planned Parenthood will do next.

PEREIRA: Also breaking overnight, the University of Chicago forced to shut down its Hyde Park campus today after counterterrorism officials uncovered an anonymous online threat of a gun attack. CNN correspondent Ryan Young live in Chicago with the breaking details.

What do we know, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, we're told that the FBI alerted the university here about the threat. And we're actually standing on the quad. The quad is the area that was talked about in this threat, that at 10 a.m., someone was going to come here and use a gun and maybe shoot people in this quad.

The campus has shut down the university. There will be no classes today. I'll read the statement from the campus. They said, "Based on the FBI's assessment of this threat and the recent tragic events at other campuses across the country, we have decided in consultation with federal and local law enforcement officials to exercise caution by canceling all classes."

Now think about this. This is the last week of classes. Finals are getting ready to start. There are kids who live in the dorms here. But we're told they've been advised to stay inside. We drove around the campus this morning and we did notice an increased presence of police officers here. But you understand the FBI alerted this campus about this, and now they're taking that threat very seriously -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Sure sounds like it. OK, Ryan. Thank you for that.

Well, in just a few hours, a Chicago police officer, that one charged in the fatal shooting of the black teenager, will appear in court. That graphic dash cam video that appears to show the officer firing 16 times on Laquan McDonald has sparked outrage and allegations of a police cover-up.

CNN's Rosa Flores is live in Chicago.

Good morning, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, Jason Van Dyke was arrested and charged with first-degree murder in the killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald. That's the teen here from Chicago.

Now, the arrest and the charge happened last week. And at that point in time, a judge set bond at no bond, pending a bench review of that video. Now I should warn you, that video is very graphic. It shows Laquan McDonald walking through the street with a knife in his right hand. Several cruisers responding to the scene, including Van Dyke. Now, according to court records, he started shooting six second after he arrived on scene, discharging his weapon 16 times. And according to the autopsy report, hitting Laquan McDonald 16 times.

Now, that triggered protests here in town. At the height of these protests, about 200 to 300 protesters walked up and down the Magnificent Mile here in Chicago. For the most part, those protests were peaceful. Now, we should add that Jason Van Dyke's attorney says that this

police officer acted in self-defense. But, again, a judge expected to review that graphic video today and decide if his decision of no bond still stands -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: We'll check back with you to see the progress on that today.

Meanwhile, in Baltimore, the first of six police officers charged in the April death of Freddie Gray goes to court. Jury selection will begin later this morning for William Porter. Freddie Gray died from a spinal injury that he suffered in a police van. Prosecutors say Officer Porter should have given him medical help.

The case sparked rioting in Baltimore. Porter, for his part, has pleaded not guilty to manslaughter and other charges. His case could have a major impact on the five trials of the other officers that follow.

CAMEROTA: And it's the end of an era for the Los Angeles Lakers.

PEREIRA: You have to give it more drama.

CAMEROTA: It is the end of an era for the Los Angeles Lakers. Kobe Bryant retiring at the end of this season, Michaela.

[06:15:01] PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Bryant made the announcement Sunday in the form of a poem...

PEREIRA: I'll read it to you.

CAMEROTA: ... on the player's Tribune website. Could you right now? We do have a full-screen quote of it, if you'd like to read this one.

PEREIRA: "Dear basketball..."

CAMEROTA: "My mind can handle the grind, but my body knows it's time to say good-bye."

PEREIRA: I know. It's really beautiful.

CAMEROTA: Bryant has won five NBA championships over a 20-year career.

And go.

PEREIRA: Here is what I think is the best thing ever said, Kobe Bryant written about by Bill Plaschke, "The L.A. Times" sports writer, writes, "Kobe Bryant finally surrenders to his basketball mortality. It was a hard decision, I know, for him. His body gave up before his brain and his spirit did, but it's been a long time." A Laker legacy coming to an end.

CAMEROTA: Well said and poetic.

PEREIRA: Thank you very much.

We are learning more this morning about the suspect in that deadly Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting and perhaps a possible motive. What could have driven him to kill? Take a closer look, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:00] CAMEROTA: Investigators say it could take more than a week to process the crime scene from Friday's shooting rampage at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic. But chatter captured over the police scanner is offering a glimpse into how the event unfolded and came to its chilling conclusion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bear we have eyes on him. He is coming towards the front of the business from the south side.

We got to take him out if he has any IED of suspicion on him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have our suspect right now. He's saying that he is alone and he's by himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, good job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Good job, indeed. Joining us now is Matthew Horace. He's a former ATF executive and senior vice president of FJC Security Services. That's a private security firm.

Matthew, great to have you here with us, because you know all this about area. You were with the ATF in Denver. Colorado Springs was part of your region.

MATTHEW HORACE, FORMER ATF EXECUTIVE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: How prepared is a place like that for an active shooter scenario like this?

HORACE: Well, two things come to mind here. No. 1, Colorado Springs has, as you know, several military bases. They're very used to training. I've worked with that police department. They do a phenomenal job.

Also, the mayor, John Suthers, former attorney general, U.S. attorney, a couple key positions in government, he knows exactly how we're supposed to respond.

CAMEROTA: But it is hard to imagine a scenario with more variables than this for law enforcement. They had an active shooter. He had an AK-47. He was prowling the premises. There were innocent people trapped inside, hiding behind doors. He was shooting through walls, just indiscriminately, through doors. A police officer was shot, as you know.

Where do they begin with that?

HORACE: Well, there are so many variables, as you say. But remember, law enforcement trains for situations just like this, the known and the unknown.

CAMEROTA: Look, part of the very complicating factor, I would imagine -- correct me if I'm wrong -- is that, while all of this is happening, the information, the tactical communications were being broadcast on police scanners. That's how all the cops were communicating with each other, as they will.

In this day and age of the Internet, 63,000 people around the country were listening in to those tactical conversations. Let me just play you a portion of what people could hear about them trying to figure out what to do. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are three people hiding in the bathroom at Planned Parenthood where they hear -- they think they hear the suspect. They say somebody's knocking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is anybody in the safe room?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are in contact with one party, one of the three hiding in Planned Parenthood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going to hide in the back closet until this is over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have people hunkered down in the northwest corner of the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we confirm to we have people still inside Planned Parenthood?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to find the victim at the back. We're kind of exposed. We're seeing how many doors there are. We've got to check here. We haven't found him yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Matthew, they know that people are hunkered down in the Northwest corner. They know people are hiding in the back room. What if the gunman had been listening in on one of these sites?

HORACE: Well, that is a very real possibility. In that part of the country, though, it's not uncommon for local law enforcement, all different organizations, to be communicating on several different channels. It's necessary.

If you see, we were able to galvanize responses very quickly in this case between Colorado Springs, the officer who was killed during the incident, the ATF, the FBI and others. So it might seem like a lot of chatter, but from an incident command standpoint, we were able to understand what was happening both from people who were hunkered down, hunkered in place, the investigators, the tactical operators; and we know what was happening.

CAMEROTA: I'm just worried about people being able to listen in. I mean, it's almost as though, like, law enforcement should shut down those Internet sites that allow people to listen in.

HORACE: Yes. I mean, obviously, the best-case scenario, best practices would be to shut all coms down so that other people can't hear it. In this case, it didn't work that way; and people were killed and injured.

CAMEROTA: It's just amazing. It's just amazing that they got this guy and that they were able to take him alive.

Let's talk about this suspect. He's described as, like, a Ted Kaczynski type, a loner, living in this rural setting. He had anti- government literature that he handed out. He had been arrested for a peeping Tom incident. He had -- the police had been called for a domestic violence incident. But yet, they couldn't know what was in his mind of planning to do.

HORACE: Who knows what goes into the minds of a madman? He lived on acreage in a trailer. He had anti-government sentiments, anti-abortion sentiments. And then when he gets arrested, he utters something about body parts. Who knows whether that was the motivation? Investigators will find that out over the next couple days.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Apparently, he was ranting about a lot of things.

HORACE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Matthew Horace, thanks so much for the expertise. Great to talk to you.

HORACE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. Is Russia seeking economic revenge against Turkey for the downing of a jet? New sanctions by Moscow could be a serious blow to the Turkish economy. We're going to take you live to Moscow for details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:28:23] CUOMO: All right. We're here at the COP21. That's the Conference of Participants, the 21st meeting about the climate. This is what the U.N. has organized here in Paris. Some 150 heads of state are on hand to do this.

But the real story -- yes, the climate is important. Yes, there has to be change. But this is about security. We're just a couple weeks out of the horrible attacks that happened here in Paris, and France is now using its unprecedented emergency powers to crack down on demonstrations and pro-testifies ahead of the summit that begins this morning.

Now, the summit leaders are hoping to make history themselves and do something about the environment. There's no reason to mitigate the importance of what they're doing here, especially because people believe it may soon be too late to make the kinds of changes that are necessary.

So let's get a sense of the context of what COP21 is about within the security environment here in France with CNN senior European correspondent Jim Bittermann. Always a pleasure to see you, sir.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CUOMO: The story within the story, the main story, COP21, people have been looking forward to this. You don't get 147 heads of state together easily. What is the main agenda and the realistic outcome?

BITTERMANN: Well, I think they're looking forward to the idea of limiting greenhouse gas emissions. That's their general framework. They actually have a better chance at it now than ever before.

CUOMO: Why?

BITTERMANN: They have more than 180 commitments by the 195 countries that are here. The 180 of them -- those 180 represent 95 percent of all the greenhouse gas production in the world. And so they have commitments to limit their greenhouse gas. So it's actually a much more politic time than anything in the past in terms of whether they do anything.

CUOMO: Now you know the immediate skepticism is, OK, you get the commitment, but what is the enforcement mechanism, especially when you get into the big shots, China, India, India especially saying we're having our...