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Trump's 9/11 Celebration Claims Under Fire; Second Day of Jury Selection in Freddie Gray Trial. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 01, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: The same targets that al Qaeda hit in London and Madrid ten years ago. Those would have been reinforcing security services concerns worldwide that ISIS was trying to reach the level that al Qaeda reached when it tried to shut down transportation with attacks against aircraft and metros back in the heyday of ISIS.

The other thing I'd say, Chris, that we haven't talked about, we're focused on the soda straw of the events in Paris. When you get a cell in Syria, a cell within ISIS that's dedicated against foreign targets, that's cell what we call external operation cells in the intelligence world is not going to stop as long as it's got senior operational planners who have staged what they already view as a major success.

They are going to go say, especially if they have Abdul Salaam back in the organization, what's the next target and how do we make that target bigger than what we did in Paris a few weeks ago? Until the leaders of that cell are destroyed, they'll go on to plot again.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Cruickshank and Mudd, thank you very much.

MUDD: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Appreciate the analysis as always. Alisyn, back to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris.

Is Donald Trump now retreating from his claims that he saw thousands of extremists in New Jersey celebrating on 9/11? We will talk with radio host Hugh Hewitt about it all. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:35:00] CAMEROTA: Well, after days of repeatedly defending his claim that he saw thousands of Muslims cheering on 9/11 in New Jersey, Donald Trump avoided that topic at his rally last night. What's that about?

Let's discuss it with our own Chris Cuomo who joins us from Paris. And radio host Hugh Hewitt. Hewitt will be a panellist in CNN's Republican debate, that is December 15th.

Guys, great to see you.

Hugh, I don't know if you just caught the interview that I just did with Rudy Giuliani, but we talked a lot about Trump. We talked a lot about Trump's relationship with the truth and Rudy Giuliani's take on it was that basically Trump plays by different rules.

Let me just play you a little clip because I asked Rudy Giuliani what would happen to you when you Rudy Giuliani were running for president. If you had made some of the claims that Donald Trump had?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: I would have been thrown out of the race. He is judged by a different standard. Maybe it's because of his background on "The Apprentice" and an entertainer and the fact that he's been a big personality. He almost like speaks in headlines, gets your attention and then -- and then a lot of the points he makes are very substantive, but the headline turns out to be exaggerated.

CAMEROTA: So Hugh, what do you think about that theory? That he's just judged by a different standard, maybe it's because he's an entertainer?

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST: I watched your interview with Rudy. It was a terrific interview, Alisyn. And when the mayor said that there were pockets of demonstrators on 9/11 that were celebrating, I thought Donald Trump has another data point that he's going to combine with the Fred Siegel column in "The New York Post" that made that point and with "The Washington Post" contemporaneous report. And Donald Trump will love that interview.

And I sat there thinking to myself, he is continuing to put together a Harvard Business School case study in building brand. Donald Trump is simply above this. And I wouldn't be surprised by anything that he does. I wouldn't be surprised if on, you know, the day after Christmas he exit the race, throws the bottle to Ted Cruz and has built the value of Trump Tower and every Trump property around the world ten-fold by simply using the platform that media has given him. He is something of a marketing genius.

CAMEROTA: Chris, you, of course, covered Donald Trump for years as well as all politicians.

What do you think about Rudy Giuliani's notion that Trump is just in a category of his own. He's held to a completely different standard?

CUOMO: I think Rudy's right. And he's entitled to his opinion. And certainly when people say things that are wrong, you don't get to choose your own facts. And that's the bottom line in this situation.

I think it's frustrating from a media perspective. I don't know why it continues to get attention. He's wrong. There weren't thousands of people celebrating. Were people celebrating after 9/11? Yes. Is it wrong? Yes. Should you say thousands were? No. Why? Because it's inaccurate and it feeds a perception of Muslim-Americans that is dangerous. So he's just wrong. And he can say that he's not wrong all he wants. And many of his supporters will believe him because he has an unusual connection to his support which I think does come from part of his popularity and also part of it is what he is selling them, which is their own anger and reasons for solution of that anger.

But in terms of how you cover him, look, Hugh does a great job of it when he has people on. So do you. You have to test him. So it's harder with Donald Trump. He is a better advocate for himself than most politicians are, but he's still wrong about this. And at the end of the day, wrong is wrong.

CAMEROTA: Hugh, you can hear Chris's frustration there that, you know, this has had legs and it has gotten so much play in the media.

Are we wrong in the media to play it again when he says a falsehood and when he says something that's demonstratively untrue? Do we let it go? Or do we highlight it?

HEWITT: I think you continue to do what you just did with Rudy Giuliani. And, again, I think that may have been the best interview I've seen on the subject with the most authoritative voice on the controversy. And the mayor said there were not hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands.

And Chris is right. There is no evidence to show that. There are anecdotal pieces of evidence of some demonstrations and celebration. That's where I would leave it.

On December the 15th, we have this debate in Las Vegas, and it's going to be an enormous audience again because Donald Trump generates enormous audience. Something else Rudy told you. All the Republicans should be thanking him for building this enormous audience, whether it's Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Chris Christie or Jeb Bush or any of the other top-tier candidates, even second-tier candidates should all send Donald Trump chocolates for Christmas because he's created for them millions of eye balls.

[07:40:17] And during that debate, if they point out that yesterday, for example, new e-mails showed up that make it abundantly clear that Mrs. Clinton lied during her testimony before the Benghazi committee about not receiving e-mails on her private server the night of Benghazi, then they will have used the platform that Donald built for them.

So I don't think anyone is upset with Donald. I don't think the media has done anything wrong. It is its own unique situation that will play itself out on Donald Trump's terms until voters start to vote.

CAMEROTA: Chris, what about that? The rising Trump tide lifts all Republican votes.

CUOMO: Well, that was an unusually clever weaving of a talking point by Hugh Hewitt into his answer there. He's very clever, especially for a Browns fan.

HEWITT: Oh!

CUOMO: But I have to say that he is right. Donald Trump -- Donald Trump is certainly a gift to the attention that factor for this election. There's no question about it. He is good for the race. A lot of people won't like that.

But, you know what, people believe in what he's saying. He has a big basis of support. And to say he somehow doesn't belong is wrong. He's brought attention to the race. People resonate with what he says. It is their right to do that. They make the choices, not the media. And how long he lasts I think is definitely a concern for the G.O.P. They're going to have to figure out what they do when it comes to convention because Donald Trump is going to be there.

CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, we could talk about this all day, but we have other news to get to.

Hugh Hewitt, Chris, we'll see you in a minute. Thanks so much.

A programming note, the CNN Republican debate is December 15th. It's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. It is moderated by our own Wolf Blitzer.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: One of those stories that we need to get to. President Obama expected to speak at the climate summit in Paris soon. We're going to bring that to you, of course, live.

But, first, potential jurors in the trial of an officer charged in Freddie Gray's death telling a judge they know about Gray's arrest and a financial settlement with the family. Today, a second pool gets set for questioning. The question becomes can an impartial jury be seated? We'll discuss it, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: So day two of jury selection continues in Baltimore this morning as the first of six officers heads to trial for the death of Freddie Gray. A big question facing the court is whether an impartial jury can be selected in Baltimore.

We want to discuss this with Danny Cevallos. He's our CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney.

Joining me here in studio is Reverend Jamal Bryant. A familiar face. He's from the Empowerment Temple in Baltimore.

We know that Reverend Bryant you delivered the eulogy at Freddie Gray's funeral. You're very close to this story. Very close to this community.

Gentleman, first of all, I have to let you know, the president is expected to speak shortly. We're going to try and have our conversation before those comments come from Paris.

Danny, we are hearing reports from inside that Baltimore Courthouse that reporters could hear the chanting of protesters outside. We've also learned that all of the 75 potential jurors that were in the pool yesterday said, oh, yes, I'm very familiar with the Freddie Gray case. I know about the settlement with the family. The big question is, can they seat an impartial jury here in Baltimore?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you have to look at the underlying test. The Sixth Amendment guarantees a defendant a right to an impartial jury. But what exactly does that mean?

That means not -- if the test is not whether you can empanel a jury that's never heard anything about this case. That's kind of an unreasonable test. Instead, jurors who have heard about the case, and if you live in Baltimore, it's virtually impossible to have not heard something or been involved in something during all the unrest.

But if given their knowledge, they can put aside what they know and render a verdict based just on the facts, then they can be impartial jurors.

PEREIRA: OK.

CEVALLOS: That rule recognizes the fact that it's unreasonable to ever empanel a jury in a high profile case that has heard nothing at all about the underlying case.

PEREIRA: Especially in today's world where we have cell phones and we have social media, et cetera.

So Reverend Bryant, to Danny's point, we've also heard that some 26, I believe the number is, 26 of those potential jurors said they already have strong feelings about the case.

Do you feel the case needs to be moved? I know the lawyer had already asked for a change of venue. The judge said no, that's not happening. Do you think it can happen in Baltimore?

REV. JAMAL BRYANT, EMPOWERMENT TEMPLE: I think it can happen in Baltimore. We have every bit of confidence that it needs to stay there. That we need to witness it from the beginning to the end. Dealing with the impartiality that's been part of the weight of being black in America, a presumed of guilt.

Whether you know the point of the case or not. What people are looking for from all over the country is will the impartiality go to the benefit of the victim? So many times it's always been swayed towards the police. And over and over again we've seen it from Cleveland to Ferguson to Sanford, Florida and Baltimore we're gasping for breath, hoping there will be a tide.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: And do you think this actually might -- this might actually provide some healing for almost like a full circle nature for the trial to stay there in Baltimore?

BRYANT: We are really putting the criminal justice system back on trial to say can African-Americans really have a fair trial to find justice on our life as opposed to on the other side. Every time a young black person is killed because of aggressive policing, it's always been found to be justified. Or some reason behind it. In this case, we're hoping that there's the full measure of the law is in fact poured out and Baltimore is waiting on that.

PEREIRA: So, Reverend, we know the officer, this first officer that's on trial right now, Porter, is African-American. The judge also happens to be African-American.

Does that change the dynamic in a case that many perceived as racially motivated?

BRYANT: Well, in Baltimore, it's not a black and white issue as much as it's a black and blue issue. Baltimore is a 73 percent black city. The black mayor, black comptroller, black state's attorney. And so we're really looking for what color will justice be? It's that the reality is that the imagery of the metaphor of Lady Liberty is to be blindfolded. It doesn't matter what color you are, can the truth come out? And that's what we're hoping this trial will reveal.

[07:50:06] PEREIRA: Danny, so we know that this officer -- he's facing charges of involuntary manslaughter, reckless endangerment and second-degree assault. Give us an idea, prosecutors facing an uphill battle in this case?

CEVALLOS: Well, you could say the prosecutors always face an uphill battle because of their burden of proof. They have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. But a lot of people have come and I have to agree that because all of these defendants are severed, the prosecution is left proving together individual pieces of a larger pie.

So in other words, they're going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this officer's actions isolated with one defendant sitting there at the table. That officer's actions amounted to the very high level of proof required to sustain a conviction for involuntary manslaughter.

And we have a depraved heart murder case coming up, too, as well. That's an even higher burden. So in a way, this severance may ultimately be a Boone to these defendants.

PEREIRA: All right. Reverend Jamal Bryant, always a pleasure to have you here.

BRYANT: It's my pleasure. Thank you.

PEREIRA: Danny Cevallos, thank you so much. We'll continue to talk about this as this case and the trial continues.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela.

President Obama is expected to speak at the climate summit in Paris any minute. So we will bring that to you live. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:55:28] CAMEROTA: We are waiting for President Obama to speak live from Paris in just a few moments. But, first, another heart breaker for Cleveland sports fans as the Browns snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

PEREIRA: Strong tie today, though, Coy.

CAMEROTA: Oh, look, he's matches us.

PEREIRA: He matches us.

CAMEROTA: Right.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Kind of color coordinated. We planned that, everybody.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we did.

Good morning to you, Alisyn and Michaela. On taper, that Monday night game looked like a Monday and match up that didn't mean much, the 2-8 Browns versus the 3-7 Ravens. Well, lucky for us, they don't play the game on paper because this one went down to the last play.

All game, the rivals went blow for blow. Tie score which is three seconds to go. Cleveland Travis Kuhn lines up for the 51-yard field goal attempt. If it's a 10, he wins, if he missed it, overtime, right? Wrong?

Blocked by Brent Irvin, Will Hill scoops up the pill and then feet don't fail me now. Will takes it to the house, somehow, some way. The Ravens find a way to take the game, 33-27. It's OK, Cleveland fans. It's basketball season now and you still have Lebron James.

Speaking of basketball, there still seems to be no stopping the undefeated Golden State Warriors. They haven't lost in a lifetime. Well, if you're an 8-month-old baby, that is. 23 straight wins back to last March. But the Jazz took Steph Curry in to the wire last night. Tied at 101, 51 seconds to go, to whom do you give the ball? Bingo, Steph Curry with the 3, giving Golden State the lead. That's his 76th three-pointer for the month.

A new NBA record, does win 106-103 moving to 19-0 for the season. And those 23 straight wins dating back to last March put the Warriors just 10 wins away from tying the NBA's all-time win streak at 33. That win would have to come on Christmas Day against Lebron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Guys?

PEREIRA: I still have to get used to having a basketball game on Christmas Day when I'm trying to, you know, do all of that Christmas stuff.

CAMEROTA: Multitasking. You're good at it.

PEREIRA: We can do it, Coy. We're devoted. WIRE: I love it. I love it.

PEREIRA: All right, thanks.

Donald Trump getting roasted by late-night comics from his red hat to his hair and his hidden talent? Question mark, here's what you missed in case you were asleep.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST: Donald Trump had a little bit of an embarrassing revelation. Hard to believe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, really?

O'BRIEN: Yes. Donald Trump's popular "Make America Great Again" hats are actually made it turns out at a California factory that employs Mexican immigrants.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Yes, yes. Even more embarrassing for Trump, his hair is made by Syrian refugees.

True story.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last week I was away so I couldn't sit around and watch my favorite TV show. I miss all of it, Trump-ire. For those who don't know, it's a thrilling drama about a ruthless tycoon who will stop at nothing in his quest for power. To be honest, I just watch it for the music.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That is never going to get old.

CAMEROTA: No, that was one of the best songs.

PEREIRA: We are following a whole lot of news and of course we're waiting for President Obama to speak live. Let's get to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, December 1st, 8:00 in the east now. Alisyn and Mick in New York, we are in Paris.