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Sources: Male Shooter Apparently Radicalized; Shooter's Family Attorney Speaks Out; First Responder: Shooting Scene was 'Surreal'; Employees Speak Out about Mass Shooting. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 04, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: ... other attacks and more carnage planned.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Victor Blackwell. He is live in Redlands, California, outside that home -- Victor.

[07:00:10] VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning. We've learned from law enforcement forces that the FBI is now interviewing relatives of these two, and they are cooperating.

We're also learning indications of the lengths to which these two went to cover their tracks, apparently.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): More clues unearthed, but still no clear motive. Among the latest discoveries, two smashed cell phones, thought to have belonged to shooter Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik. The phones hidden behind a trash bin near one of the crime scenes.

Also found, a computer with a missing hard drive. Investigators believe it may have been removed or destroyed, potentially to cover their tracks. Investigators now issuing subpoenas to major service providers to try to retrieve information.

DAVID BOWDICH, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI LOS ANGELES OFFICE: If you look at the amount of obvious preplanning that went in, there was obviously a mission here. We know that. We do not know why. It would be irresponsible and premature of me to call this terrorism.

BLACKWELL: Law enforcement sources say Rizwan Farook appears to have been radicalized and had sporadic contact with international terror subjects. The FBI and White House cautious not to rule out any possible motives.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is possible that this was terrorist-related. But we don't know. And it's also possible that this was workplace-related.

BLACKWELL: A raid on the couple's Redlands home uncovering a veritable bomb lab in the garage: 12 pipe bombs, hundreds of tools that could be used to make more bombs and thousands of rounds of ammunition. These images, obtained by CBS News, purport to show explosive devises found at Rizwan Farook's home.

JARROD BURGUAN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE CHIEF: Clearly, they were equipped and could have continued to do another attack. We intercepted them before that happened, obviously.

BLACKWELL: Overnight, one of the first police officers on the scene of the shooting describing it as an unprecedented tragedy in his career.

LT. MIKE MADDEN, SAN BERNARDINO POLICE: It was unspeakable, the carnage that we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and, unfortunately, already dead. And the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe.

BLACKWELL: Hundreds gathering late Thursday inside San Manuel Stadium in San Bernardino to mourn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): God Bless America...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): God Bless America...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): God Bless America...

BLACK: As the names of each of the 14 victims were read aloud.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): ... land that I love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): ... land that I love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): ... land that I love.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: We have breaking news also in this situation. Last night, late, we spoke with attorneys for the shooters' family. They say the family is very sorry, that they are shocked by what happened, that they knew nothing. But also these attorneys share concerns about whether or not this is terrorism. And in fact, they have questions about the facts surrounding the massacre itself. Here is that back and forth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Where do you go with this in terms of how they explain how he went from someone they knew and loved to somebody who could do something so monstrous?

DAVID S. CHELSEY, FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: There's a lot of disconnects and there's a lot of unknowns; and there's a lot of things that, quite frankly, don't add up or seem implausible.

I don't -- she was never involved in shooting. She's probably about 90 pounds. So it's unlikely she could even carry a weapon or wear some type of a vest or do any of this.

Where the couple was found, from what I understand, is that they were handcuffed, lying face down in this truck, shot up. There's a lot of things that just don't make sense.

You know, no one has ever seen Syed with any of the things that they -- I mean, with some of the things they found on the scene. They haven't seen him with them.

CUOMO: Like what?

CHELSEY: The pipe bombs, for example. He -- no one has ever seen him use or have anything like that. And it just doesn't make sense for -- for these two to be able to act like some kind of Bonnie and Clyde or something. It's just ridiculous. It doesn't add up.

CUOMO: Doesn't add up?

CHELSEY: They don't have the military skills to carry out something like this, really, frankly.

CUOMO: Well, authorities go back and forth on whether or not this shows sophistication or lack of sophistication in terms of how it was carried out. But are you saying that you're not sure that they did this?

CHELSEY: I'm just -- I'm just telling you straight out that it doesn't -- it doesn't make sense. It looks like -- if somebody had military training or something, yes, but there was none of that. And this person was not aggressive.

We sat with the FBI for three hours, and they tried to identify some characteristics or some affiliations that he might have had that could have led him to act in this way. And they couldn't find anything. They were totally stumped, totally frustrated. You know, in the media, some have said that it may be work-related, like he was disgruntled in some way. But really, everyone is clueless, because there's nothing that would characterize him to act in this manner.

[07:05:09] CUOMO: But to be clear, does the family have any doubts as to whether or not this was him and his wife who did it? Because the authorities have none, as you know.

MOHAMMAD ABUERSHAD, FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: I think the family has come to terms with the situation as the facts have been coming out. And they've been very accepting of it. They send their apologies and their wishes and their prayers to everybody who lost their lives. And they've let that -- they've let that be known already.

So I think the family has been accepting of everything that has come out through the media, through the police reports. And they're very remorseful, and they're very sad. They lost two family members of their own, as well.

CUOMO: I just want to make sure that I'm hearing the same thing from you, Counselor.

CHELSEY: Sure, sure.

CUOMO: It seems like you're saying, it doesn't make sense, she might not have done this.

CHELSEY: I'm just telling as an attorney. I don't speak for the family and their views. And they're not -- they're not deniers in any way. They're not -- they're not actually affiliated with this in any way.

They were really surprised to hear about these events. They were shocked. When they started to hear about them, they were worried for the safety of Syed. They thought that he might have been getting attacked. They were -- they were completely shocked when they found out about it.

So they're not denying anything. I'm just telling you, from an attorney's perspective in the cases I've had, it -- the facts don't make sense. That's all I would say.

CUOMO: That's the part I don't get. I know that you're not here to plead the case for the people who did the killing, I hope.

CHELSEY: Yes. I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated, but...

ABUERSHAD: I think what David is trying to say...

CUOMO: No. The officers say they took fire from this SUV; the people in the SUV were him and her. That's kind of the end of the analysis of possibility.

ABUERSHAD: Chris, as you know, as an attorney yourself, you do also understand that we have to wait for everything to come in, not just bits and parts of the factual basis.

CUOMO: What could come in? Give me a possibility. What could come in?

ABUERSHAD: I don't know what could come in. But there's more information that we just haven't received yet. You guys haven't received everything yet. Nobody has.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: And there's no question, investigators are very open to the possibility that more may have been involved in this attack but not less. This man, this woman, investigators say, are the murderers.

So there is more in this interview about what was known and not known by the family. And we're going to show that to you.

But right now, we want to keep a balanced focus here, not just on the villains but on the heroes, as well, and the victims overall. So the officer who was first to respond to this shooting is now describing the carnage that he encountered. Police Lieutenant Mike Madden, he was on his way to lunch when dispatch sent out the alert, and then he rushed to the scene, assembled a team, and entered the building. What he saw inside the conference center, he says, was something he could have never prepared for. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADDEN: The situation was surreal. It was something that I don't think, again, we prepare for. And they try to -- an active shooter, we talk about sensory overload. They just try to throw everything at you to prepare you for dealing with that. What you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're smelling. And it was all of that and more.

It was unspeakable. The carnage that we were seeing, the number of people who were injured and, unfortunately, already dead. And the pure panic on the face of those individuals that were still in need and needing to be safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Just because they're in uniform does not mean that they're not human and doesn't -- they don't feel what everybody else does. And remember, 21 people still injured, many of them still fighting for life in local hospitals. Fourteen people gone. Their families can never replace what was lost. And that's what drives the urgency here beyond the curiosities of the investigation.

Let's bring in James Ramos. He's the chairman of the San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors.

It's good to have you here. Of course not under these circumstances.

Now, when we look at this situation, the police work was key to this situation. They were there so quickly that now investigators believe that may have facilitated an early exit by the murderers. And of course, we saw what happened with the shootout. We saw what happened on the cell phone video, with an officer telling frightened people, "Don't worry, I will take a bullet before you ever will." What's your reaction?

JAMES RAMOS, CHAIRMAN, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: I think the reaction is that the law enforcement community here in this area throughout our region came together in unity. And that's one thing that San Bernardino County and the law enforcement agencies that we're highlighting and, really, making sure that everybody was working together.

But when you see this coming together with all the agencies involved, working so well together, I think starts to see how the law enforcement community is adapting to these types of situations.

CUOMO: You know, the people watching the shootout on television, all the cars looked the same. But the reporting is seven different agencies were involved -- you know, local, state, federal -- and some 20 something officers were pursuing that SUV, all of them in that way of fire that was very heavy, very deadly.

What does that mean in terms of reassuring this community right now, which is reasonably afraid for safety, of the ability to keep them safe? RAMOS: I think it shows a strong ability of the whole region

coming together, the unity of first responders coming together, to be able to respond to a situation like this. And to be able to support our first responders that come into these situations.

[07:10:06] But also, we want to make sure that we do continue to support the victims and the families that have gone through some of these atrocities that we're going through now.

CUOMO: You see this as terrorism?

RAMOS: Those are questions that you would have to ask the law enforcement. I'm here more to make sure that the resources of San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors are available, to make sure that the law enforcement has the resources and the tools they need to make sure that they can investigate, make sure there's a regional approach, make sure the unity and the community continues to come together till resolve (ph) is done.

CUOMO: You're a popular guy. People are going to come up to you. They're going to say, what's up with this not calling it terrorism? Who are you protecting? What's going on here? It's so obvious.

Yes, there's a legal definition. I'm well-versed in it. And it's not an easy case to make. But you know what? There is no case to make here, because at least with these two perps, they're dead.

So how do you balance this frustration with people thinking you're not calling it what it is, with the way of doing it the right way?

RAMOS: I think with law enforcement, we have to give time for law enforcement to be able to do their investigation. Certainly, in the first couple -- here in this case, the first couple days people want answers right away. But we have to be patient. We have to make sure we're doing a thorough investigation, supporting law enforcement in their efforts.

Our role as county board of supervisors is to make sure, and especially here in San Bernardino County, where the majority of those employees that were shot were our employees. Our message is to our employees to let them know that we care, that we're there for them, and to make sure that they know that the San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors, the community, all agencies support them in their endeavors to see them resolve through these things. So our support is with the families.

One thing we can't forget is to make sure that they know that the community is standing with them equally, just as the law enforcement community is standing together, that we're all in this together.

CUOMO: Now, that is such an important concept, going through crisis and even really just every day. And to know that San Bernardino has been tested this way in terms of the immigrant situation. That's something that's hit home here. I was hearing a lot about that from people here and last night

and their distinctions with what they're feeling right now. And there is a question of, well, who are "we"? And of course, some of that is directed to the identification of Muslims being involved with this massacre. What do you tell people?

RAMOS: Last night there was a vigil at the San Bernardino Stadium. And you see all faiths -- faiths come together through a prayer vigil. They would start to pray and make sure the community is coming together.

When these types of things happen, it's no longer us versus them. It's us together so make sure that we are coming together as a community, and as a people, and all walks of life, to make sure that we are standing together and being strong, not only for the community but for the families that are affected.

CUOMO: To test the idea of who is "us" and who is "them."

RAMOS: Exactly.

CUOMO: And what do you say?

RAMOS: We said "us" are those that are caring people. "Us" is those that will continue to care about those that are not done yet going through these types of things. We have families that are going through things. Names are being read. Names are being released. That's where our focus should be at this time. Until all that is done, we have to make sure that we, as the people, we as the county, we as the community continues to keep those families, those victims at center stage and to make sure that all faiths of the community continue to pray and uplift them throughout this time.

CUOMO: And they're praying and they're also acting. People kept coming up last night, saying what can we do? What can we do for those who are injured? What can we do for the families who have lost loved ones? There's no question the hashtag #SanBernardinoStrong will certainly wind up applying to the efforts here.

Mr. Ramos, thank you very much.

RAMOS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Good luck to you going forward. This is never easy, but having a community together, though this is never easy, certainly helps.

RAMOS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Take care, sir.

In our next hour, we're going to talk with someone else who is deeply affected by this tragedy. This is a heart-wrenching image we'll show you right now that captured the moment that Ryan Reyes found out that his partner of three years was among the 14 people murdered in this massacre. We'll share his story when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:18:12] CUOMO: Imagine being one of the people inside these buildings. You start hearing strange noises. You're working. You think maybe it's construction. Then, you hear an alert. There's a shooting under way. Maybe it's a drill. But then you learn it's all too real, and maybe the shooters were coming your way. What would you do?

We spoke with people who were in exactly that situation, just a normal day at the office that evolved into complete chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: What was going on before all this happened?

AILEEN TORRES, WITNESS TO SHOOTING: It was just a normal day at work. I mean, obviously, there was something going on, because we -- we -- at the -- in front of the library there was a lot of cars. So we knew an event was going on. We knew it didn't belong to us. So, you know, we just go into our offices and do work as usual.

VERONICA NAVARRO, WITNESS TO SHOOTING: At about 10:30, 11, when I was upstairs just typing away, I heard this loud, loud, loud noise. I got up to look, and I couldn't see anything. So it looked normal. And so then I hear my co-workers running: "There's a shooter. There's a mass shooter in the next-door building." And so then I just got up, and then I made my way with my co-worker and others into this conference room.

CUOMO: Did you know -- how did you know what to do?

TORRES: We didn't. It was just chaos. You know, there was just rumors that -- that it was the active shooter training. So every -- it was just chaotic. We really didn't know what to do.

NAVARRO: Everybody was crying. People were crying. And then I just felt like I couldn't sit there, because I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I needed to know if the shooter was still in the building. I needed to know for myself.

So I broke away with the crowd with two other gentlemen. And we ran to a farther office. And that's when we were able to see SWAT getting there. And then we could see -- the bodies being pulled. And we counted 12.

[07:20:15] TORRES: It was very scary. You know, we were in the conference room barricaded and just not knowing, not knowing is he in the building, is he -- is he even here? Where is he? And that was scary. I mean, we didn't know -- we still didn't know by the time we were escorted out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try to relax, everyone. Try to relax. I'll take a bullet before you do. That's for damn sure. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You were there in the moment when somebody was shooting it. How did that happen that this officer wound up coming in? Take me through that.

TORRES: We were in the conference room. And then we -- people tried to open the doors. And some people were telling us -- telling others, don't open the door. Or who is it? And then a voice came over the loud speaker. Then we heard that -- for everybody to come out.

Next thing you know, the SWAT team came in and told us, "Everybody put your hands up. Get in a single file line."

And what you don't see on the video is the officer saying, talking to his colleague asking, "Show me your face. If you don't show me your face I'm not going to clear my hostages." And at that point we realized that -- you know, I realized I was a hostage. And that scared us, because we didn't -- my thought was he's in the building. He's not even -- he's not gone. Otherwise, we would have just ran outside. But he's escorting us out. And that was scary.

CUOMO: And that officer, to make you feel comfortable to come outside, he wound up saying on that videotape, "I'll take a bullet before you do."

TORRES: Yes.

CUOMO: What did that mean to hear that then and to think about it now?

TORRES: You don't realize how much you rely on -- on law enforcement until you're in that situation.

NAVARRO: They acted very quickly. I mean, it was very fast. And they were moving the bodies. They were trying to figure out what was going on. They didn't know if the shooters were still there. I'm sure they heard that there was a car driving off or an SUV.

But at that moment they still were very apprehensive, and they moved quickly and were getting the bodies out that needed the help, or you know, just kind of making it to get into the area.

CUOMO: How do you make sense of what happened at work?

TORRES: I still can't. It's still kind of scary. You know, we're not eager to go back to work. You know, to know that some of our friends are gone and to know that that massacre happened in the next building, it's just -- it's not -- you don't feel safe.

CUOMO: What do you think about why it happened?

NAVARRO: Why it happened? Oh, I don't know about that. You know, there's so many different, you know...

CUOMO: Do you care?

NAVARRO: Do I care? I care about the consequences of it all. And how it's affected me personally and my family at work. And I care that, you know, that people are no longer with their loved ones, and I care for the survivors. I care for the family members. I care for my co-workers.

And I care extra more for my family today. Because I realize how lucky I am.

I think it's important that the world knows that, you know, the little city in San Bernardino will keep going strong. And we have a good company, and we'll all pull together, because we are a good working family.

TORRES: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: To imagine what they lived through, that officer knowing that gunfire was a reality for him, their uncertainty, and yet they are the lucky ones. Fourteen people lost their lives. Twenty-one others injured, many still in the hospital.

Let's bring in CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta with more on what we understand about the families and what endures now, Doc. Thanks for being with us. What do we know?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you, listening to Veronica and Aileen over there, I think it was the confusion and the chaos in the immediate aftermath.

Now, imagine you're a family member. You get a call from inside. This is an active scene still. You get a call from one of your family members saying, "I'm inside the room here, and I think I've possibly been shot." They're not even sure. That's how confusing it is. Talked to four family members. They all sort of know each other. As you said, pretty tight-knit community. Take a listen to how they sort of framed it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHY MOTETZ, SISTER OF SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTING VICTIM: That hour of not knowing what's going on, is she OK, where was she shot? The not knowing was the worst, because the worst thoughts go through your head. Until we found out that she actually was getting tended to about by emergency response and that she was transported here. Then a very big sigh of relief, you know, to just hear her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The agony of the unknown.

GUPTA: Again, she got a call from inside and, you know, you don't know what exactly is going to happen. Is she going to live or is she going to die? I'll tell you what else happened, though, at the same time,

Chris, was that all of these emergency personnel, there are people who are going in very early, active scene; doctors, nurses going in at risk to themselves. And also at the hospitals, there's an extraordinary preparation. We got a look inside. I want you to take a look at this picture here.

CUOMO: Wow.

[07:25:07] GUPTA: This was just a real show of force. You had four or five doctors at every trauma bay bed, waiting for these patients to come in. So people who were not even on schedule to work that day showed up. This is oftentimes what it takes.

They see a lot of mass casualties here, usually from things like bus accidents. They've never seen anything quite like this. But you know, patients are doing well after these significant, significant injuries, and it's because of pictures like that.

CUOMO: You said a couple have been released. And that's the good news, and we'll look for more of that. Sanjay, thank you for covering this aspect of it. It -- you know, it arguably -- really matters the most. Those who are still injured, these families that will never get back what they lost.

GUPTA: Yes. As you say, still struggling but looking good for them.

CUOMO: Alisyn, you know, the names are now coming out of the 14 who were lost. We're showing them throughout the show. Because that's what fuels the urgency of understanding what happened here and how to try to not make it happen again.

CAMEROTA: It's too much to bear, actually, Chris. It's just unbelievable how many in just those seconds were lost. But Chris, we'll be back with you. Obviously, we'll have much more from San Bernardino throughout the show.

We are also following some new developments for you in the race for the White House. There are brand-new CNN poll numbers showing Donald Trump hitting a new high. John King will be here with analysis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)