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Firestorm Over Trump's Call to Ban Muslim Immigrants; FBI: San Bernardino Terrorists Radicalized for 'Some Time'. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 08, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald J. Trump.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): This is the kind of thing that people say when they have no experience.

TRUMP: ... is calling for a total and complete shutdown.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A dangerous overreaction.

TRUMP: ... of Muslims entering the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want them here. Who knows what they're going to bring into the country?

NIHAD AWAD, CAIR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Donald Trump sounds more like the leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both subjects were radicalized and have been for quite some time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nineteen pipe bombs could have been used in a larger attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The couple practiced their shooting skills at a firing range just days before that massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No criminal charges will be filed against Officer Hernandez.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want that case re-opened, and I want him charged with murder.

LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will examine the issues to the Chicago Police Department's use of force.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira. CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

It is Tuesday, December 8, 6 a.m. in the east. All Muslims should be banned from entering the country. Donald Trump says that should be America's answer. And with that, he has succeeded in being a uniter in the GOP, galvanizing candidates and party leaders in near-universal rejection of that idea.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: But Donald Trump is still far ahead of the rest of the GOP field in all of the latest polls. So will these latest comments hurt or help his lead in the race? We will speak live with Donald Trump coming up in our next hour. Stick around for that.

But we begin our comprehensive coverage with CNN political reporter Sara Murray. She's live in Washington. Give us all the latest, Sara.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, it's a good question about whether this will impact his support. Right now, we're seeing across the board negative, almost universally negative reaction from leaders of the Republican Party. And in a rare move, the Republican chairman in all three early voting states -- Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina -- all condemning Donald Trump's remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We're out of control. We have no idea who's coming into our country.

[06:00:04] MURRAY (voice-over): It may be the most controversial proposal yet, Donald Trump calling for the U.S. to block all Muslims from entering the United States.

TRUMP: We have no idea if they love us, or if they hate us. We have no idea if they want to bomb us.

MURRAY: As a GOP rival slams the plan as outrageous, divisive and offensive, Trump touted it to a cheering crowd last night.

TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

MURRAY: Trump warning without such measures, which even include blocking tourists, more terror attacks would occur.

TRUMP: We can't live like this. It's going to get worse and worse. You're going to have more World Trade Centers.

MURRAY: Trump's proposal, panned by nearly everyone in the GOP field: Senator Lindsey Graham calling it downright dangerous; Jeb Bush tweeting, "Donald Trump is unhinged"; Carly Fiorina, deeming it an overreaction to the tragic attack in California.

FIORINA: Donald Trump always plays on everyone's worst instincts and fears; and saying we're not going to let a single Muslim into this country is a dangerous overreaction.

MURRAY: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie dismissing the idea as naive.

CHRISTIE (via phone): This is the kind of thing that people say when they have no experience and don't know what they're talking about.

MURRAY: Joining the chorus of condemnation: the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

AWAD: It is reckless and simply un-American. Donald Trump sounds more like a leader of a lynch mob than a great nation like ours.

MURRAY: But offering a more muted reaction: Texas Senator Ted Cruz, as he battles Trump for conservative voters in Iowa.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, that is not my policy. We need a commander in chief who is focused on keeping this nation safe. And the way to do so is focusing, in particular, on radical Islamic terrorism, which is exactly what I intend to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, this proposal plays to the fear, to the mistrust and even to the hate that Trump supporters are feeling right now. And it's the kind of thing that could actually move his numbers higher among conservatives in Iowa.

But it's difficult to see how you carry rhetoric like this into a broader electorate and specific into the general election -- Chris, Alisyn.

CUOMO: Sara, I think it's fair to say it's hard to see how you carry this rhetoric anywhere. I think we're having a moment here in this election. Let's see what it could be. Please stay with us, my friend.

And let's bring in senior contributor to "The Daily Caller" and conservative commentator, Mr. Matt Lewis, as well as Geoffrey Lord, CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House political director and F.O.T., friend of Trump.

Geoffrey Lord, we start with you. Is there any way to make this OK? It seems to be a rejection of everything is that is America.

GEOFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Chris, I am utterly astounded here. Franklin Roosevelt passed or signed presidential proclamations 2525, 2526 and 2527. And successively, they called -- I'm quoting directly -- alien Germans, alien Italians, alien Japanese.

And I am not talking about the business of rounding up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans and putting them in internment camps. I am talking about declaring every alien resident of the United States who was born somewhere else, who was either of those -- any of those three nationalities above the age of 14, they had to register in this country. They were stripped of their naturalization proceedings. They had to register. They had to -- they could -- they were not allowed to move beyond five miles of where they lived.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LORD: They were not allowed to have cameras, short-wave radios, flashlights...

CAMEROTA: OK, but Geoffrey...

LORD: In other words, we have been...

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey, I think your point is...

LORD: We have been here before.

CAMEROTA: Yes. During World War II.

LORD: If we're going to rewrite history, that's fine.

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey.

LORD: But we need to focus on the fact that Franklin Roosevelt was Donald Trump on steroids. And everyone thinks FDR is a great president.

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey, during World War II these measures were taken, but we're not at war with Muslims. We were at war with...

LORD: Yes, we are at war, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: No, we're not, Geoffrey. We're not at war with Muslims. We're not. That's the wrong message.

LORD: Radical Islam. We have 14 people dead in a conference room for attending a Christmas party.

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey, do you make no distinction, no distinction...

LORD: We have people dead. We are at war.

CAMEROTA: ... between the billions of Muslims and radical Islam? Do you make no distinction?

LORD: We are at war with radical Islam.

CAMEROTA: Right. So why ban all Muslims from entering the U.S.?

LORD: OK. All right. All right. We're at war. We are at war.

CUOMO: Matt Lewis, how do you take this? Do you see it the way Geoffrey Lord does, that there's a functional equivalency between being against radical Islam or Islamism, and all Muslims, and that makes this OK?

[06:05:14] MATT LEWIS, "THE DAILY CALLER": Well, let me first recommend to Geoffrey, there's a great book by Jonah Goldberg called "Liberal Fascism." And guess what? Guess what? FDR was not a good president. And guess what? FDR did a lot of horrible things, including the internment of Japanese. And as a conservative, I don't know why we would raise him up on high as some sort of a model.

FDR was a horrible president. We should be looking to Reagan or maybe Lincoln or something, first of all.

But no, what Donald Trump is suggesting -- what Donald Trump is suggesting here is un-American. It's unworkable. It's unconstitutional. It's unconscionable. I can't believe that a conservative would actually recommend doing such a thing.

CAMEROTA: Sara?

LORD: I am...

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Sara. Go ahead, Geffrey. You may respond. Hold on, Sara.

CUOMO: Geoffrey, what's your response?

LORD: My response is, well, then let's shut down the FDR memorial in Washington.

LEWIS: OK.

LORD: Let's -- you guys that -- you guys that live in New York, let's rename FDR Drive. The fact of the matter is that the consensus -- I mean, I certainly agree with some of what Matt has said here about Franklin Roosevelt. But we're in the minority here.

CAMEROTA: OK.

CUOMO: All right. So Sara, let's bring you in.

LORD: The consensus is that Franklin Roosevelt was one of the greatest presidents.

CUOMO: Let's bring you -- let's bring you into this. There's a reach going on here. Right? Geoffrey is an intelligent guy. He's a politically savvy guy. He's trying to tie measures against foreign sovereigns that the United States was at war with to Islam and Muslims itself. What's going to happen with this politically?

LORD: Radical.

CUOMO: What are you seeing? Where does it go?

MURRAY: Yes, I think the reality is...

CUOMO: You're making the functional equation, Geoffrey, so you've got to own it. Go ahead, Sara. MURRAY: I think the reality is this is a blatant proposal for

Donald Trump to try to win over core conservatives in Iowa. He's not looking at this proposal as something that's being recommended to him by security experts; not even as something that's particularly workable.

Experts, constitutional scholars say that you would not be able to do this. And security experts say that this wouldn't even be beneficial. It would further alienate us further from Muslim -- leaders of the Muslim-American community that can help in investigations like this. It can help identify people who are radicalized. This puts a further separation.

And like you said, Chris and Alisyn, it does not differentiate between radical Islamist -- radical Islamic terrorists and Muslims at large. But, you know, it's pretty clear Donald looks -- Donald Trump looks at this as a shrewd play to try to win over conservative voters, which is particularly potent at a time when, yes, our CNN/ORC poll shows Trump leading in Iowa. But another Monmouth poll shows Trump losing in Iowa.

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey, you know, some of this was based on a poll that Donald Trump cited that experts say this is a wildly flawed poll. You must consider the source, of course, any time you cite a poll. And this is from the Center for Security Policy by someone who has been classified as an Islamophobe.

Here's one of the questions on the poll. "Do you believe that jihad is an obligation of your practice of Islam?" It doesn't define jihad. As we know, it has many, many different -- different definitions. Forty-one percent say yes; 41 percent say no; 13 percent don't know what the question is; 6 percent couldn't answer it.

By the way, that adds up to more than 100, but either way, the point is, he's cherry picking. He's decided that he has this feeling about Muslims, and he's cherry picking. And he's not -- he's doing this thing where he sort of equates jihad and Sharia with terrorism. I mean, he's just using the most broad brush strokes. Is this helpful, Geoffrey?

LORD: You know, I mean, I just disagree with the premise, Alisyn. I mean, we're at war with radical Islam. It's not -- it's, you know, a bunch of Congregationalists who walked in there in San Bernardino or who were on the streets of Boston.

CUOMO: So then you target the extremists.

LORD: It's not Congregationalists who are fighting...

CUOMO: You don't target all of them, Geoffrey. You know that.

LORD: Look, we're not anti-Muslim. I mean, that's just a...

CUOMO: This is inherently anti-Muslim. You can't look at it another way. You can't say that a blanket ban of an entire people is anything other than rabidly exclusionary. That's what it is. LORD: In other words, Franklin Roosevelt was a fascist.

CUOMO: I don't care about the FDR analogy. I think it's a clever distraction, but it's not helpful.

LORD: You have to learn from it.

CUOMO: No. And that's the point, Geoffrey. Matt -- Geoffrey, let me cut you off for a second.

Matt Lewis, he just made the proper point. We should learn from it. Even if FDR did those things, why would we want to repeat, in the country of inclusion, an exclusionary practice that ties to no kind of constraint, other than making the problem worse?

LEWIS: I think FDR made a huge mistake. And I think, you know, he did some things right, but he did a lot of things wrong. And we should learn a lesson and not repeat it. We should learn from history.

But look, I think that this is -- Ted Cruz is winning in Iowa, according to some polls. And this is a very cynical move.

CUOMO: You think Cruz came out against this?

LEWIS: Certainly not. Ted Cruz has a different proposal. He's not as forceful as I think he ought to be in condemning this. But Ted Cruz does not support this. Ted Cruz is winning in Iowa. Donald Trump desperately wants to get himself back in the news cycle.

[06:10:01] And let me say, aside from the potential international implications that this could have, this also really messes up things if you're a Republican, right? I was on this show yesterday, talking about Barack Obama's horrible speech at the Oval Office. That's what I want to be talking about. That's what Republicans want to be talking about.

CUOMO: Not today.

LEWIS: But guess what? Instead now we're talking about Donald Trump, which is what he wants us to be talking about.

MURRAY: And I do think that's the point other Republicans have been making to me, as well, is that, look, Congress is in session right now, and this is a question that everyone is being asked in the hallway, if you are a senator in a tough re-election site, you are being asked to respond to Donald Trump wanting to block all Muslims from traveling to the U.S. And that's not a politically helpful question to be answering if you're a senator in a tough...

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Geoffrey. Last thoughts, Geoffrey.

LORD: I mean, he's saying just pause. Rand Paul is saying some version of this with people from the Middle East. For heaven's sakes, let's just know who's coming in the country. That's not -- that's not some sort of crazy thing. CUOMO: It's true. You're right.

LORD: We have, again, 14 people dead here.

CUOMO: You're right, Geoffrey.

LORD: Let's just make sure we know.

CUOMO: You're right, Geoffrey. You just don't want to compound their death, their loss with something that makes us worse. That is not honoring the legacy of the lost. You know that.

LORD: I'll strip that FDR Memorial and get it off the mall.

CUOMO: Geoffrey, you go any direction you want with it, but I'll tell you this. I appreciate you coming on the show. It's an important day, and it's always good to have you, Matt Lewis, Sara Murray, as well. Appreciate it.

LORD: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Of course, the man that we're discussing needs to defend this proposition. And guess what? He will, as well. Donald Trump will be here. He will make the case for closing the doors to America for Muslims. And he will be tested, next hour -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. On to news now. New details emerging about the husband and wife that carried out last week's attack in San Bernardino. Federal investigators say Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik were both radicalized long before the massacre. We're also learning that Farook was at a Los Angeles area practicing within days of the attack.

Dan Simon, live in San Bernardino with all of these latest, substantial developments, Dan.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michaela. Investigators say no question, both of these shooters were radicalized. In the days before the shooting, they went to a shooting range. The implication is that they were practicing their aim.

In addition, we've learned that authorities recovered 19 pipes used to make bombs. We can see what those look like, a picture from CBS News. Originally, the number that was given was 12.

This has become a massive investigation: 320 pieces of evidence collected; 400 interviews have taken place. This is how the FBI is characterizing the shooters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BOWDICH, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE: As the investigation has progressed, we have learned and believe that both subjects were radicalized and have been for quite some time. Now, how did that happen? The question we're trying to get at is how did that happen and by whom and where did that happen? And I will tell you right now, we don't know those answers at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Well, the FBI says that it is working with foreign counterparts to build out profiles. One question that has emerged is whether this couple received any financing.

And in a chilling twist, we know that Farook's colleagues a year ago received some active shooter training in the very same room where the shooting took place. It's not clear if Farook participated, but another chilling twist.

CAMEROTA: So many questions, including that financing as you speak of, Dan. Thanks so much for that report.

Meanwhile, two terror leaders confirmed killed in separate U.S. airstrikes in Somalia and Libya. The Pentagon says a strike last week in Somalia took out a senior leader of al Shabaab and two associates. U.S. officials also say a strike last month in Libya killed a top ISIS figure. This was the first U.S. operation targeting an ISIS leader in Libya.

CUOMO: An Air France flight overnight bound to Paris from San Francisco was diverted to Montreal following an anonymous threat. The plane, all 246 on board all OK. The plane landed safely.

Officials are not commenting on the exact nature of the threat. But just last month, two Air France flights from the U.S. to Paris had to be diverted because of bomb threats.

PEREIRA: Calls (ph) -- prosecutors opting not to file criminal charges against a Chicago police officer who shot and killed a man last year. Twenty-five-year-old Ronald Johnson's case is getting renewed attention after video showed questionable tactics in the shooting of another black teen.

But a Chicago police review board says newly released dash cam video justifies the officer's action in the new case, because it appears to show Johnson holding a gun as he is shot in the back while running from police.

CAMEROTA: Well, as you heard, outrage from both sides of the aisle after Donald Trump calls on the U.S. to ban all Muslims from entering the country. Now, Muslim-Americans are speaking out. How do they feel today? We'll get their reaction, next.

And Donald Trump is going to join us live in the next hour to speak about his controversial proposal. Stick around.

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[06:19:11] CAMEROTA: Donald Trump's proposal to ban all Muslims from entering the U.S. stoking unprecedented bipartisan outrage in the 2016 race. Of course, American Muslims are watching this issue very closely and greeting Trump's comments with plenty of concern and pushback. So let's bring them in. Haroon Moghul is a fellow at the

Institute for Social Policy and Understanding and a senior correspondent at ReligionDispatches.org. And Sadyia Khalique is the director of operations at the Council on American-Islamic Relations in New York. Great to have both of you with us on this important morning.

Sadyia, what did you think when you heard Trump put out his statement, saying he's calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S. "until our country's representatives can figure out what's going on," end quote?

SADYIA KHALIQUE, DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, CAIR NEW YORK: First of all, thank you for having me here. It's unconstitutional, it's un- American and it's not what you would expect a president to say, a future president to say. Because he's attacking the Bill of Rights, which opposed the freedom of religion. And it's also dangerous.

[06:20:13] CAMEROTA: How?

KHALIQUE: Dangerous because, you see, we forget the correlation between statements like this, you know, anti-Muslim statements which lead to an increase in hate crimes. So you're seeing Muslims being attacked as a result of these, where young people, or average Americans, are coming out and utilizing "I support Trump" or "I support the fact that Muslims need to be deported," and they'll come and attack Muslims.

CAMEROTA: Have you seen that more?

KHALIQUE: Yes, we have. Since Paris, we've seen a lot of attacks on young Muslim women. Just recently this weekend, we saw a young man being attacked and also a store owner being attacked, assaulted and called by the attacker, "I'll kill Muslims."

CAMEROTA: Haroon, what is it like to be a Muslim in America today?

HAROON MOGHUL, INSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL POLICY AND UNDERSTANDING: It's under siege. I think that's the feeling, is that terrorists are attacking us, all of us. One of the victims in the San Bernardino shooting was a Muslim.

And at the same time, after the attacks happened, then we faced backlash, because it's assumed that we're somehow complicit in it.

And Donald Trump's rhetoric goes in that direction when he says things like you should kill the families of terrorists or ban all Muslims from entering the country. It's, in effect, saying that all of you are responsible for this. And at the same time, as if that's not bad enough, groups like ISIS are at war with the world's Muslims, because we reject their ideology, refuse their caliphate.

CAMEROTA: You know, Trump is using words that are confusing and sometimes scary to Americans who are not Muslim. He's saying "jihad." He's saying "sharia." He uses them almost as synonymous with extremism. So what don't Americans understand when they hear "sharia" and "jihad"? What should Americans know about how American Muslims practice these things?

KHALIQUE: I think it's important to know that American Muslims are your average Americans. To -- to identify them or discriminate them by words such as "terrorism" or "jihad" or even call us the other, is, if anything, a way to scapegoat us. So you have to remember that Americans are your average, you know, firefighters, or your police officers, or your teachers. We're in your schools and your colleges, and we're just like any American standing up against any type of terrorist attack.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump supporters tend to agree with him when he says provocative things. His poll numbers tend to go up. Here's just a sampling of how people, his supporters, responded after he made these comments yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a very prudent idea, and I think that he's done due diligence when he makes that statement.

We have to protect our American citizens first. And the vetting process in the whole program lacks integrity.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's just saying no Muslim should be allowed to enter the country right now. You agree? Yes or no. It's that simple.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Haroon, how do you break through his messaging to get to average people and say just what Sadyia just said?

MOGHUL: I think the way to break through is by appealing to people who don't listen to him and look at how security basically becomes a cover for an idea, something like racial purity. Right?

So when it came to Mexicans, which was only a few months ago, he said they're rapists, they're murderers. Some of them, he coyly suggested, might be good people. And then he proposes a wall.

Then he talks about deporting huge numbers of Americans and their families.

A Black Lives Matter protestor shows up at one of his rallies. He's beaten up. Trump suggests that maybe he deserved it.

On all these different issues, Muslims are just the latest in this wave where he's going everywhere from anti-Semitic to anti-black to anti-Latino, where he uses security to justify policies that basically mean what he wants to do is privilege one kind of American, and anyone else who doesn't fit that category, basically is here on a probationary basis, not just Muslims. CAMEROTA: Many -- many of his GOP rivals have come out and

condemned what he said. Let me read to you what Marco Rubio has said. "I disagree with Donald Trump's latest proposal. His habit of making offensive and outlandish statements will not bring Americans together. The next president better be somebody who can unite our country to face the great challenges of the 21st Century."

Sadyia, does that go far enough? Are you heartened to hear of the other Republican rivals coming out against it?

KHALIQUE: I think the key word is "unity." We have to understand that, in order to combat any form of terrorism or any act of violence, we have to stand united. And that's, again, the American principles.

American Muslims stand with all faiths and all, you know, politicians who are supportive of Muslims and their rights and advocating for Muslim-Americans. We have to stand united and remember tolerance in the time, in the time of crisis we are facing right now.

CAMEROTA: And standing united, Haroon, does this mean does there need to be a march on Washington? Does there need to be some sort of visible symbol of combating this, in your mind?

MOGHUL: From the Muslim community?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MOGHUL: Look, this is a debate that's really happening right now, where a lot of people are asking what more can we do?

Unfortunately, one of the realities is that we feel like being out in public might make us targets. And there is this frustration that you've got these extremists who are hiding, even from their own families, who are able to do this kind of damage. And we wonder what can we really do about this?

And the sad fact is that, even as we fight this kind of rhetoric, it's a very slow battle. And it's going to take time to produce results. And in the meantime, we feel honestly a little bit like we're torn between people who assume we can't be American and then people who assume we can't be Muslim.

[06:25:13] CAMEROTA: I understand. And we really appreciate you being so candid and having this conversation with us this morning. We're hoping that it helps. Haroon, Sadyia, thank you so much for being here.

KHALIQUE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. New details about the couple that carried out the San Bernardino attacks. Investigators say they practiced at a local gun range between the massacre. Did they have help in carrying out that attack? Also, ahead in our next hour, Donald Trump will join us live.

He'll be pressed about his controversial plan to ban all Muslims from entering the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: New information coming out of the investigation of the San Bernardino massacre. The terrorists had a much longer history of extremism than previously thought. And they were frequent visitors to a local gun range. So what does this mean about our knowledge of radicalization?

We have Phil Mudd, CNN's counterterrorism analyst and a former CIA counterterrorism official. Information here, but I would be remiss on not to hit on the day's big headline with you. Do you see any justification for a complete Muslim ban...