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Trump Stands by Muslim Ban Despite Backlash; France Identifies Third Concert Hall Bomber; Officials: Farook May Have Planned Attack in 2012. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 09, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: What tears at America's fabric more than rejecting an entire faith?

[05:58:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): Until we figure this out, we should have a ban. It's very simple.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Not what this party stands for.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Disqualifies him from serving as president.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A shameless and a dangerous idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think about Donald Trump's latest comments?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immigration is not a right. It's a privilege.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is pretty much trying to protect the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bank loan for more than $28,000 just days before the massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The two conspired back in 2012, plotting an earlier attack in California.

It does appear that she was radicalized before she entered the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is another tape the city of Chicago does not want you to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is running as fast as he possibly can away from police when he was shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We felt like it was an unjustified shooting.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and

Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, December 9, 6 a.m. in the East. So what happens next?

Donald Trump pushing even harder to ban all Muslims from entering the U.S. Intense scrutiny of that notion as GOP officials and politicians from both parties rejecting the idea openly. But word that America might even consider closing her doors to an entire faith is reverberating across the world.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So the Republican Party wrestling with how to handle Trump as he hints, again, that he could announce an independent run if they try to squeeze him out. And if you think this firestorm is harming Trump, you're wrong. A new poll in New Hampshire shows he is gaining ground.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN political reporter Sara Murray. She is live in Washington. What's the latest, Sara?

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. You're absolutely right. The latest polls still show Donald Trump on top. Of course, we haven't had polling since all of the furor over all his latest proposal.

And that is drawing condemnation from people who have not weighed in on 2016 so far, everyone from the leader of the -- the Republican leader of the Senate to the Republican leader of the House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): Even in the face of fierce condemnation from his party elders...

RYAN: This is not conservatism.

MURRAY: ... GOP presidential hopeful Donald Trump refusing to back down on his proposal banning Muslims from entering the U.S.

RYAN: What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for and, more importantly, it's not what this country stands for.

MURRAY: The chairman of the Republican National Committee joining the chorus, telling "The Washington Examiner," "I don't agree. We need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism, but not at the expense of our American values."

One GOP lawmaker issuing a call from the House floor for the billionaire to drop out.

REP. DAVID JOLLY (R), FLORIDA: It's time for Donald Trump to withdraw from the race.

MURRAY: Trump unfazed by comparisons to Hitler on the front page of the "Philadelphia Daily News." TRUMP: I'm talking about a temporary situation until our

country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The implication of what he said is that, if we were enforcing our immigration laws appropriately at this point in time, we might have a better handle on this.

TRUMP: On Tuesday, widespread rejection from his GOP rivals.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a race- baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. He doesn't represent my party. He doesn't represent the values that the men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for. You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not about the blowhards out there just saying stuff. That's not a program; that's not a plan. This is serious business.

MURRAY: Trump's proposal so widely panned that even Hillary Clinton and Dick Cheney are united in opposition.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is both a shameless and a dangerous idea.

DICK CHENEY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This whole notion that somehow we can say no more Muslims, just ban a whole religion, goes against everything we stand for and believe in.

MURRAY: And the White House also issuing sharp criticism.

EARNEST: The fact is what Donald Trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serving as president. The question now is about the rest of the Republican Party. And whether or not they're going to be dragged into the dustbin of history with him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, more and more Republicans are telling me that they look at Donald Trump as Hillary Clinton's best possible chance of winning the general election, if he's nominated as the Republican nominee.

But you can see how far the party has to go to knock him down. Our CNN/WMUR poll shows Trump with a very wide lead in New Hampshire. He has 32 percent support. His closest rival is Marco Rubio at 14 percent support.

Back to you, Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: All right, Sara. Appreciate it. We have two big dynamics going on here. We have what this means for the party. Then we have what this means for the country. This is a fundamental question of how we're going to deal with terrorists.

So let's turn to senior contributor to "The Daily Caller" and conservative commentator, Mr. Matt Lewis; and Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst and editorial director for "The National Journal."

Ron, I start with you. I see this two ways, right? The GOP has to figure out what they're going to do with Trump. He's the guy at the top of the list. They think he's hurting the party. Do they have the power or the leverage, especially with the third party looming? Let's start there.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, look, I mean I think, you know, that threat of the third party is something that Mr. Trump has dangled at times and I think will be dangling all the way through every day that he is in the Republican primary. And if he's not the nominee, we're going to be hearing about it until next summer.

He has an identifiable constituency. It is not an implausible idea that he could run as a third-party candidate and draw a substantial vote, a la Ross Perot in 1992. So it is a legitimate threat.

And I think it is something that a lot of party leaders have in the back of their head as they struggle to deal with a Trump phenomenon that, in the long run, puts them at odds with the fundamental diversity and demographic change that we are living through that most Republicans recognize.

After the 2012 election, when Mitt Romney won a higher share of the white vote than Ronald Reagan did in 1980 and lost by 5 million votes, most Republicans believe they have to reach out to the changing America. Most Republican strategists.

What Trump is showing, however, is that a big portion of the Republican base is simply unwilling to go in that direction and will recoil very sharply from it. So they are on the horns of a dilemma, Chris.

CAMEROTA: Matt, what a crazy time we are living through and witnessing. The frontrunner, the Republican frontrunner by a vast margin is being criticized by people, leaders in his party. I mean, what happens now?

MATT LEWIS, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Yes. It's crazy. Look, if Hillary Clinton paid somebody to try to destroy the Republican brand, they would do exactly what Donald Trump has done. So that tells you how bad things are, how potentially bad they are.

But Republicans, I think, are walking this fine line. On one hand they have to make clear that Donald Trump does not represent their view, does not speak for the party.

On the other hand, they want to keep him inside the tent, keep him from launching that third-party campaign, which could throw the election to Hillary Clinton. So it's a really, really difficult situation. I would say, though, don't hit the panic button just yet. I

think it's entirely plausible that you end up with a nominee like a Marco Rubio, for example, and that the party can go the direction that will be more inclusive and take conservatism into the 21st Century.

[06:05:14] CUOMO: Well, look, this is an opportunity. You know, you have all these guys and Fiorina on the GOP side have been saying we need a moment. You give Trump so much attention. If I could only get in there, this is their moment to step up and say how they are different on this particular issue. Because it's metaphorical.

So that then takes us to this bigger thing. Sure, Ron, you could say, look, the Republicans are reaping what they've sewn. You know, they went heavy on opposition, heavy on negativity. Nothing works. And now you have somebody who really embodies that in Donald Trump, and people are resonating.

Then you have this bigger, overarching issue of who we are as a country and how we are going to face the fear and the threat. How big is this moment in your estimation?

BROWNSTEIN: I think this is enormous. You know, I've written I think that, you know, we -- what we are living through is the transformation of America into a true world nation or kaleidoscope society without any single dominant group.

A majority of our public school students are now nonwhite. A majority of our under 5 population is now nonwhite. As I wrote the other day, white Christians who have always been the dominant group in American society are now less than half of the population.

So we are diversifying. We are becoming, as I say, a kaleidoscope country. And we saw even before San Bernardino all of the economic and cultural strains of trying to adapt to this change, how difficult an issue this is, how explosive an issue it is.

When you add to that the economic and the cultural issues, the threat of security and terrorism, you are truly producing a combustible mix and a moment where you need leaders to kind of talk about what the country has in common. Instead, I think what Trump is doing is giving voice and validating those who are most unnerved by these changes and making this a difficult situation not only for the party, but ultimately, for the country.

CAMEROTA: Let's remind our viewers about the interview Chris did yesterday with Donald Trump where he said some of these very provocative things, including how long a ban he would see on Muslims from coming into the U.S. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm talking about a temporary situation, until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on, Chris. Is it temporary?

Yes, it's until the country's representatives can figure out what is going on. Fact is, until our people can do something about these horrible people that want to do damage to our country, real damage to our country, then I think it should stay in place. But it's temporary until we can figure that out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Matt, he was vague, obviously...

LEWIS: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... about the timing, as he often is, about specifics.

But you know, yesterday I sat down with a panel of Trump supporters, and they -- this is music to their ears. They agree with this.

LEWIS: Correct.

CAMEROTA: They say that -- they feel scared right now in the country. This is not anything that makes them take a second look. They feel even more strongly than ever about him. And in fact, the fact that the Republican Party establishment is trying to reject him, that doesn't bother them at all. That makes them -- him stronger in their minds.

LEWIS: Absolutely. Look, we have the culmination of so many cultural, societal, technological changes happening right now. And part of the reason Republicans have to be delicate with the way that they distance themselves from Trump. And it's not just Donald Trump. It's a lot of Americans who like Donald Trump and support him. And some of whom are quite good, you know, patriotic Americans who are very afraid. Economically they're afraid. They're afraid for this country in terms of terrorism. They feel like the country that they love is changing. They think that there's liberal overreach, political correctness run amuck. They have very legitimate fears and concerns.

And the question is, I think Trump is exploiting that in a very negative and cynical way. But how do -- how do conservatives respond and how do we try to win them over?

So, look, I think that when Trump says, "Hey, what I'm talking about is common sense," in a sense he's right. Because fear, responding to fear is a very base instinct. Now, telling people to consider things like religious liberty or unintended consequences, that's a much more sophisticated thing to do. And it's harder to sell in a sound bite.

CUOMO: Well, look, when people are scared, and they're scared, they want control. And what he's giving them, Donald Trump, is control. Ban the Muslims. There's TtoTherehere's your control. This is a moment for leaders to step up. Hillary Clinton put out a tweet. Not enough. You have to come out. You have to be full-throated, and you have to tell the American people what you are on this. Because I think it's going to be the extension of the issue that decides the election. CAMEROTA: Ron, Matt, thank you, guys, for your perspective.

Great to talk to you.

Stick around, everyone. Because coming up on NEW DAY, we have quite a show. We will discuss Trump's controversial Muslim ban with Senator Angus King, former New Jersey governor Christine Todd Whitman; Senator Tom Cotton; and Congressman Andre Carson all have unique perspectives.

CUOMO: And the timing couldn't be more pivotal for a moment in this election. We're less than a week away from the big CNN Republican debate, the last one of 2015. And really, probably the most at stake in terms of how big this issue is going forward.

[06:10:14] It starts, of course, Tuesday, 6 p.m. Eastern. That's when the coverage starts. Then you have the undercard debate and then the main event is at 8:30 Eastern only on CNN.

PEREIRA: Interesting timing, huh?

CUOMO: Uh-huh. He planned it perfectly.

PEREIRA: Yes, exactly. All that happening just before the next debate.

All right. Other news, in fact, breaking news on the Paris terror attacks investigation, the third attacker who blew himself up at the Bataclan concert hall has now been identified.

CNN senior European correspondent Jim Bittermann live in Paris with all the breaking details for us -- Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Michaela.

In fact, he has been identified by the prime minister himself as Fouad Mohamed-Aggad, a 23-year-old from Strasbourg in the east of France, one of a group of about eight or nine people who went to Syria as a group back in 2013. In the group, two of them were killed almost immediately, in a few days in a combat in Syria.

However, the others returned to France. They were arrested by police and put under provisionary detention, all of them except for Fouad Mohamed-Aggad, who in fact, stayed in Syria and vowed to get -- to take revenge on France and, in fact, has now. He's not been identified. That makes all three of the attackers at the Bataclan theater, the performance hall, who killed 90 French young people. All three of them were French-born and had French passports -- Michaela, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you very much. We appreciate it, Jim.

So we had Paris driving fear of terror striking here, and then it did. San Bernardino, and the more we learn, the scarier it is. Federal officials now telling CNN the male terrorist was planning an attack three years ago. They also believe now that he joined his wife in pledging allegiance to ISIS on Facebook as the recent attack was unfolding.

CNN's Dan Simon is live in San Bernardino with more.

Dan, what do we know?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hey, Chris. A couple of new developments to talk about. First, we are told that Syed Farook may have been planning an earlier attack somewhere in California in 2012 with somebody else, other than his wife.

We are told that a specific target may have been considered. We are told, at this point, that they apparently abandoned this sort of plot because that the -- we're told that, in effect, that they may have gotten spooked.

The second thing, we're told that Farook may have taken out a bank loan in -- a couple -- in November for $28,500. What that money was used for, we're told, half of it was given to Farook's mother. The other half apparently has been accounted for. What they were planning to do with that money, we're not quite sure. Perhaps they were trying to stockpile some weapons. But apparently, that has not been confirmed.

And finally, we've learned that Farook's neighbor, 24-year-old Enrique Marquez, the guy who converted to Islam two years ago, he apparently purchased the two assault weapons that were used in the attack. That was transferred to Farook. Apparently, that may have been against the law, and authorities are continuing to investigate that connection.

Alisyn, we'll send it back to you.

CAMEROTA: Dan, still just as more information comes in, the mystery just increases. Thanks so much, Dan.

Well, Donald Trump's rivals say he's fueling hate by calling for a ban on Muslims. But his hard-core supporters completely disagree. Hear what they believe, next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:17:38] CAMEROTA: What do Donald Trump's supporters think of his proposal to keep Muslims out of the U.S.? I sat down with some of them at the historic Palace Theater in Stamford, Connecticut, and their responses are fascinating.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: What do you think about Donald Trump's latest comments that Muslims should be banned from coming to the U.S.?

Michael, let me start with you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Well, I think that he is pretty much trying to protect the American people. Muslims should not be considered the only -- the only people to be concentrated on. It should be anyone that is -- needs a background check. I think he's correct by saying we need to screen people. We need to make sure our borders are secure.

CAMEROTA: The reason it's controversial is that he singled out Muslims. He didn't say terror suspects. He said Muslims. What do you think of that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think that's unreasonable to do. Because we need to make sure that the people here are safe. And until we can figure out who is allowed into the country and coming in, and if we don't know who they are, then we need some sort of protection.

CAMEROTA: Billy, what his critics say is that one of the founding principles of this country is religious freedom. We don't have a religious test at the borders. So what do you think?

WILLIAM BAER, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: If we want it as a nation, we could keep everybody out of the country, theoretically, legally, morally. There's no reason we couldn't do that. It's not like due process or constitutional rights apply to people outside of the country coming into the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Immigration is not a right. It's a privilege. And you have to meet certain criteria in order to be able to immigrate to the United States. And it just seems that the majority of terror activities have taken place over the past couple of decades, and more specifically, since 9/11, have been perpetrated by people of the Islamic faith.

And so I would say that when you see the propensity of terrorist attacks being committed by Christians of Buddhists, and we start blocking them, as well.

CAMEROTA: Are you -- the rest of you comfortable that there would be a religion test, that he's painting with a broad brush against Muslims?

GERRY DELEMUS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: When Jews come to America or Christians come to America, they're not trying to re-invent America, because they know then we're a Judeo-Christian nation.

Islam, if you read the Koran or the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), they are in conflict with our Constitution. What he's trying to do is put the burden on Congress to step up to the plate or our president, who doesn't seem willing to, to stand up and say, "Look, we need a process in place that's going to protect American citizens."

[06:20:07] That's the first job of our government is to protect American people, not to protect -- protect someone from the Middle East or from Germany or wherever it is. It's America. And our -- and our politicians have been placating Islam, not calling it what it is when there are acts of terrorism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's about time that we stop being politically correct in this country and we start talking about the real issues and the real issues is they're coming to get us. It is terrorists that are coming to get us in America. They're not going to be happy until they take over this country. And we have to be under Sharia law. And I'm not going to bow down to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was going to say, I was brought up Lebanese-American Christian. My parents came -- were born here. My grandparents immigrated from what was then Syria, now Lebanon.

And I've got to tell you that, my personal opinion, this broad brush that's been painted of all Muslims, if I was going to say there was a flaw, I would just say that that could be the problem.

I think there's a definite group of -- of the terrorist groups, and there's definite groups that we know who they are. But to paint the broad brush and to just -- and to include all Muslims, I've got to tell you that most Muslims I know are loving, fine, outstanding. Some of our best doctors, some of our smartest engineers, some of our most highly educated educators and people in this country.

CAMEROTA: So the broad brushstroke is -- makes you uncomfortable?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It always does, of course. Like I would with any other race or religion or any other particular group, I never would want to paint a broad brush.

CAMEROTA: Does anyone have Muslim friends?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do. I go to Southern New Hampshire University. And it's a very diverse campus. I do have Muslim friends who have come to me, and they're like, "I am really, really -- like I really enjoy being in the United States." And I see that there are good Muslims. There's always going to be good and bad. And it's what we're trying to figure out and I believe Donald Trump will figure out, is how we can defeat this evil and make sure it doesn't get into our country.

CAMEROTA: Toni Ann (ph), what's your experience with Muslims?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they were my co-workers. I used to work at CVS. And I worked there for six years. There was a pharmacist, Mohammed (ph), that started working. And I usually always have a cross around my neck. He always used to, like, look at it, and he would -- you know, he would ask me questions about my faith and then, in the beginning, he was very cold to me.

And then through conversation and working together, we actually became friends. And he showed me all his pictures when he got engaged, and it was a real change.

CAMEROTA: And there you go. I mean, your story and your story and your story, doesn't that say that we can integrate? We are a melting pot, that Muslims should be able to have the American dream? I mean, why doesn't that tell you that Donald Trump has gone too far? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not making the statement that they're

never going to be allowed in America. What he's trying to do is get Congress and/or our president to come up with a plan to be able to vet them so that, in fact, process where we can make sure that we're not bringing in Islamist terrorists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: OK. So let's talk about this and get some analysis. We want to bring back Matt Lewis and Ron Brownstein.

Ron, that -- that was fascinating to me. Because on an individual level, everybody has positive personal experiences and exchanges with co-workers, with fellow students, with neighbors. But on a broad level, they're scared of people coming in.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Right. And I think you see how powerful the sense of siege is among Donald Trump supporters. And I think if you were talking about undocumented immigrants, you might have had a very similar conversation.

That tells me two things: one, it is a fantasy for Republicans to think that his support is simply going to melt away. These voters see him saying things that no one else would say. And the more outrageous he gets, the more he convinces them he's serious.

And second, I think there's a lot of turbulence ahead for the Republican Party, even if one of the more center right candidates ultimately beats him next spring, you're going to have a lot of disaffected and disappointed core voters who may be very uneasy with that outcome.

CAMEROTA: Yes, yes, yes, Ron. I'm so glad Ron is touching on that. Because that's what they told me. They said, "We're not going anywhere. They can try to get rid of Donald Trump. They can try -- the party establishment can try to shunt him aside. We're not going anywhere."

I mean, that was a fascinating thing to hear. They're not just going to fade away. They believe in -- they say we're a movement.

CUOMO: Well, what do you do, Matt? I mean, you know, you created it, not Donald Trump. I mean, you know, people can point fingers a hundred different ways. I think you just give credit to Trump for capturing the zeitgeist out there.

But you know, you preached a lot of fear about Islam, you've preached a lot of fear about how unprepared the U.S. government was. You've preached a lot of fear about how inept government is. So now you have people really afraid that there's a huge monster out there. You've told them it's coming, and you've told them no one can stop it. So what do you do?

LEWIS: Well, first, I think there are multiple factors that created the Trump phenomenon, including President Obama's failure, I think, to take ISIS and terrorism as seriously as he might. [06:25:04] But having said that, look, when I -- when I see this

panel that you've collected, these are very intelligent and eloquent people. These are not rubes out there.

And they also don't agree with Donald Trump on a lot. I mean, they were more diverse than you might expect. And they have questions about Trump, but they still support him. And some of them were concerned that he painted with too broad of a brush. But that wasn't a deal breaker.

CUOMO: One of them.

LEWIS: They still -- they still supported him. And I think the lesson that we learned there is, aside from the fact that it's not going away anytime soon, it's -- this is why Republicans have to be very careful of a potential third-party candidacy.

CAMEROTA: Matt, Ron, thank you, again, for the analysis. Always great to talk to you.

CUOMO: It's also just interesting how, yes, they're coming from a good place, these people. I believe that.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: They're really wrong about a lot of aspects of what Islam is, what it is not. They pretend that you get in here for free, like there's no vetting; there's no screening right now.

CAMEROTA: They think it's not good enough. They think the vetting is not good enough.

CUOMO: They don't think there's any.

CAMEROTA: Look, they think that, based upon the fiance visa that we just saw from the terror suspect, that it's not good enough. I mean, what more example do you need?

CUOMO: The least attacks in the country, in the world, the most stopped, the best vetting, the best security.

CAMEROTA: They can hold up a bunch of attacks to show you what's happened since 9/11. They can tell you that that's too many.

CUOMO: It's certainly too many.

CAMEROTA: I mean...

CUOMO: To say that there's no vetting is naive at best.

CAMEROTA: Look, they -- they have their research. They have what they base their belief system on. You know, this is...

CUOMO: Syrian -- Syrian refugees being kept out of the country.

PEREIRA: Speaking of the Canadian refugees, I was heavily vetted when I immigrated here.

CAMEROTA: So how could...

PEREIRA: And this was 17 years ago. That's the big question. Right?

CAMEROTA: All right.

CUOMO: It's just easy to do.

CAMEROTA: We have a lot to talk about.

CUOMO: That's all they say is there's not enough vetting. There's not enough vetting. You'll believe it.

PEREIRA: All right. Still ahead, we turn to Chicago, another potentially explosive video of a police shooting there in that city could be released soon. It's from 2013. Folks that have seen it say it is incredibly disturbing. We'll have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)