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Global Condemnation of Trump's Muslim Ban; Interview with Sen. Angus King; Officials: Farook May Have Planned Attack in 2012; Carter to Address ISIS Strategy at Senate Hearing. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 09, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And he said to me, "This isn't just a problem of Islam or this isn't just a problem of the Middle East. The problem is ours. This is part of our society."

[07:00:09] And I think there's a real sense in Europe, a growing understanding that this is, as well as being an issue of radicalism, it's a social issue. It's an historical issue.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's also political reactions, because we look at the elections over the weekend in Paris. The National Party has done exceptionally well.

WARD: The right-wing party.

ROBERTSON: And that really does feel as if it's come off the back of...

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And it mirrors some of what's happening here.

Nic, Nick, Clarissa, you guys are the best. Thank you for sharing your excellent reporting with us. Great to have you here in New York.

WARD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): A temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is not conservatism.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The blowhards out there just saying stuff. This is serious business.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that there's a chance that he would choose a third-party run?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. Because he knows he has the people behind him.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The male terrorist was planning an attack three years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A specific target was even considered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family's lawyer insists no one in the family knew about how Farook and Malik became radicalized.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Defense Secretary Ash Carter testifying on Capitol Hill this morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: ISIS's global reach is growing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our threshold for collateral damage increases with the value of the target we're going after.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

Donald Trump hitting back at his critics who fiercely oppose his proposed ban on Muslims coming to the U.S. The White House says Trump should be disqualified from the presidency. And that's some of the lighter criticism, which is coming from both parties today, even leaders overseas.

CUOMO: Trump is standing by his words, insisting to critics that he's not a bigot. He is just responding to an obvious threat. And repeating, again, that if the GOP is not fair to him, he could run as an independent.

All this just six days ahead of the last Republican debate of the year. Right here on CNN.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN political reporter Sara Murray, live in Washington.

Sara, what have you got?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

That's right. Amid outrage on both sides of the aisle from Donald Trump's proposal and his threats to run as an independent, we're also getting another data point that shows you just how far you would have to knock Trump down. That's our CNN/WMUR poll out of New Hampshire. It shows Trump with 32 percent support. His closest rival there is Marco Rubio at 14 percent support. Despite his wide lead, that is not stopping Republican leaders who

have stayed out of the 2016 race so far from criticizing Trump over the last couple days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): Even in the face of fierce condemnation from his party elders...

RYAN: This is not conservatism.

MURRAY: ... GOP presidential hopeful Donald Trump refusing to back down on his proposal banning Muslims from entering the U.S.

RYAN: What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for and, more importantly, it's not what this country stands for.

MURRAY: The chairman of the Republican National Committee joining the chorus, telling "The Washington Examiner," "I don't agree. We need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism, but not at the expense of our American values."

One GOP lawmaker issuing a call from the House floor for the billionaire to drop out.

REP. DAVID JOLLY (R), FLORIDA: It's time for Donald Trump to withdraw from the race.

MURRAY: Trump, unfazed by comparisons to Hitler, on the front page of the "Philadelphia Daily News."

TRUMP: I'm talking about a temporary situation until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The implication of what he said is that, if we were enforcing our immigration laws appropriately at this point in time, we might have a better handle on this.

TRUMP: On Tuesday, widespread rejection from his GOP rivals.

GRAHAM: He's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. He doesn't represent my party. He doesn't represent the values that the men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for. You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.

BUSH: It's not about the blowhards out there just saying stuff. That's not a program; that's not a plan. This is serious business.

MURRAY: Trump's proposal so widely panned that even Hillary Clinton and Dick Cheney are united in opposition.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is both a shameless and a dangerous idea.

DICK CHENEY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This whole notion that somehow we can just say no more Muslims, just ban a whole religion, goes against everything we stand for and believe in.

MURRAY: And the White House also issuing sharp criticism.

EARNEST: And the fact is that what Donald Trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serving as president. The question now is about the rest of the Republican Party. And whether or not they're going to be dragged into the dustbin of history with him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[07:05:03] MURRAY: Now, one person who continues to refuse to criticize Donald Trump is Texas Senator Ted Cruz. He just did an interview with NPR where he said he disagrees with Donald Trump, but he won't criticize him. He says, of course, he wants to win over Donald Trump supporters, as well as Ben Carson's, Marco Rubio's and everyone else's.

So gives you an idea of just how fierce the fight is for that core conservative support as we get closer to Iowa.

Back to you, Chris.

CUOMO: And the part, of course, Sara, that is the most real is the fear and what will be done to address it to make the Americans comfortable going forward.

Let's bring in independent Senator Angus King from Maine. He's on both the Intelligence and the Armed Services Committees.

Senator, let's do this as the dialogue that's going in -- going on around the country right now. OK? The American people are afraid. They are afraid with good reason. They just had an attack in San Bernardino, it seems like there could be more. It seems like you missed these guys in San Bernardino. You should have been able to pick up on them. Why should they feel that they are safe and that the way we vet people works?

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Well, I think you start with the right place, Chris. To try to say that people aren't uneasy, afraid, concerned is just not true. And I think you have to respond to that.

And certainly, what happened in San Bernardino, terrible thing. Was it preventable? I think that's a stretch, because it's really a question of how much are we willing to give up of what makes us Americans to have 100 percent total security?

The FBI over the past summer arrested something like 60 people involved in these kinds of plots. They've got 900 investigations going on around the country in every state. They're working literally around the clock. I met with a high-ranking security official yesterday.

But you know, this is the problem that you can be 99 percent effective, and there still could be something like what happened in San Bernardino. So I think -- and I guess we're going to get to talking about Donald

Trump's proposal, because everybody is talking about American values. And I think they're absolutely right. But there's a real national security problem with what he's saying, and I think that's really where the focus ought to be.

CUOMO: Well, the intel community says, by the way, "You can't keep everybody out. People will always be able to get in. And if you make me spend my time on a ban and keeping people out, I'll actually be able to do less vetting about the risks that exists in the country. But that gets down to the practicalities."

And I really think the ban goes to something deeper than that, something bigger than that, about who we are. And right now at our core, we are afraid. And it makes sense for people to say, Senator, "I'll tell you how to reduce the threat to my safety. Get rid of the people who are trying to kill me, and those are the Muslims."

Do you believe you've done a good enough job of explaining to people what the threat really is and who it is?

KING: Well, I think there has been a lack of a clear explanation. I think the president took an important step the other night. I wish he had done it somewhat earlier.

But in any case, here's the -- here's the national security problem, Chris, and with what Donald Trump proposed. It's an explicit, stated strategy of ISIS to drive a wedge between the West and the vast majority of Muslims who are moderate and who are pro-Western and pro- American.

They want to have people like Donald Trump say what he did. It's -- I said the other night, he was a gift to ISIS, because that's exactly what they want to do. They want us to ostracize our Muslim population and push them toward radicalism. And that's -- and we're playing into their hands. It's the same reason we shouldn't be sending troops to Syria.

What they really want, and you read their ideology and their theology, they're trying to provoke. They're trying to poke us in the eye and provoke us to declare war on them. And then they're going to say, "Look, the west hates us. America hates us. Look, you've got these American troops on Arab soil, on Muslim soil." And that's -- that's what they want.

That, to me, is, aside from the question of our values, which is really critical -- what Donald Trump said is contrary to our national security. He's playing right into their hands. We can't do that.

CUOMO: Right. But there is something -- there is something that is offensive to common sense when you say, "You know, what the answer is? Is let them in. Yes, that's what they want. They want you to keep them out, so let's let them in." When they feel -- people feel that you're letting in the wrong people, and you don't know who you're letting in. KING: Well, no. That's where -- nobody is saying, you know, open the

borders, let anybody in at any time, any place. For example, to get in as a refugee, it takes 18 months to two years, a series of background checks, biometric data.

CUOMO: Comey says the FBI can't use the database on the Syrian refugees. And that's all people needed to hear. If the FBI says they can't vet them, they shouldn't come in.

KING: Well, I agree with that. I think an increased level of vetting based upon real databases is absolutely essential. Syrian refugees or refugees from these war-torn countries, in any case.

But let's -- let's focus on the real issue. The bigger issue of people getting in is the so-called visa waiver program. We're talking about 2 or 3,000 -- 2 or 3,000 Syrian refugees. Last year there were 20 million entrants into the United States under the visa waiver program from 38 different countries.

[07:10:16] That's why I think that's the right target in terms of our -- what we should be doing and, in fact, believe it or not, Congress did something yesterday. On a bipartisan basis, the House passed a bill tightening up the visa waiver program for people that have been to these countries. That's the -- that's -- we need to separate what makes us feel good from what makes us actually safer.

CUOMO: Well, and then are politicians having it both ways? You're yelling at Trump, saying, "Don't say a ban. We're better than that." but doesn't the visa waiver amendment that's coming through right now, the bill say exactly that? That we will ban Muslims from certain parts of the world?

KING: No. It just -- it simply says if you've been to those countries, you have to go -- you have to get a visa. It doesn't say you can't get in. It says you have to go through a much more rigorous process.

The visa waiver program is just what it says it is. It's a waiver. You don't have to get a visa. You don't have to go through any interviews, background checks. You just get on an airplane and come.

We're talking about raising the bar. Not -- it's not a ban. But it is raising the bar. And I think that's just prudent.

And, again, I don't think that plays into the hands of ISIS the way this talk of, you know, we're not going to let in any Muslims. And earlier, he talked about, you know, bugging or monitoring mosques and making a registry of Muslims. That's the kind of thing that is going to drive these people away from us and toward the radicals.

We're talking about a small slice of Islam, Chris. I don't know whether it's 100,000, a million, but it's a relatively small slice of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Do we really want to push them away from us and into the camp of these brutal characters in Syria and Iraq? No, we don't want to do that. CUOMO: It's a good -- it's a good question, but it's hard to look at

it that way when you're afraid. When you're afraid, you want control; and when you want control you want limitations. And that's what people are asking for.

KING: I fully understand that. And I understand that -- that belief and feeling. But that's where leadership comes in and where people have to say, "OK, we're going to calm down here, and we're going to focus on the real problem, not throw gasoline on the fire of fear."

CUOMO: Understood. We look forward to seeing what changes will be made that can help assuage the fears of the American people. Senator King, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY, as always.

KING: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Now coming up, we're going to have more about Trump's Muslim ban proposal with former New Jersey governor, Christine Todd Whitman, and also Congressman Andre Carson and Senator Tom Cotton. Different points of view on one problem: how do we stay safe? -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

Other news to tell you about now. There are new details emerging about the San Bernardino shooters. Officials tell CNN that Syed Farook may have been planning an attack in California three years ago. And he apparently downed his wife in pledging allegiance to ISIS.

CNN's Dan Simon is live for us in San Bernardino. What have you learned, Dan?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Alisyn.

We are told that Farook may have been planning an attack three years ago, 2012, somewhere in California a law enforcement source tells CNN. We're told that a specific target may have been considered.

There were some terror-related arrests in the area, apparently during that time, and he may have gotten spooked.

Second, in addition, we're learning that Farook took out a bank loan for $28,500 in November. What that money was used for, turns out half of it was given to Farook's mother. The other half apparently used for some household expenses. Investigators do not believe it was given to them by an outside source to fund the plot. The loan is not considered significant value in this investigation. But it may suggest the pair was short on money, because they were purchasing a stockpile of weapons.

And finally, we've learned that Farook's neighbor, a guy named -- 24- year-old Enrique Marquez, who converted to Islam, purchased the two assault weapons that were used during the attack, and then he gave those to Farook. Now, that may be illegal in California, just transferring those weapons. Authorities continue to investigate that connection.

We should point out that Marquez checked himself into a mental facility following the attack.

Michaela, we'll send it back to you.

PEREIRA: All right, Dan. Thank you so much for all those new details.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter is set to testify on Capitol Hill later this morning. He will address the U.S. strategy against ISIS in Iraq and Syria amid growing questions about whether the strategy is working.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is live in Washington with more for us.

Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

This will be Ash Carter's first appearance, of course, since the San Bernardino attacks, since Donald Trump's statements calling for a ban on people of the Islamic faith entering this country.

The Pentagon very much trying to stay out of the political fray. All that officials are saying here is anything regarding Trump, anything that would play into the hands of the ISIS narrative would be counterproductive to national security.

But around the Pentagon hallways, it is no secret this morning that Ash Carter really isn't very anxious to go to this hearing. He feels he has said what he has to say about the U.S. strategy, and he knows he's walking into a buzz saw.

[07:15:15] The chairman, Republican John McCain of Arizona, very much a critic of the ISIS strategy of the administration. Carter will be called upon to defend it.

He is going to talk -- Carter's going to talk about Special Forces, about the step up of airstrikes, about taking territory back from ISIS on the ground in Iraq and Syria.

But the bottom line, there's a new intelligence assessment we've reported on here at NEW DAY that ISIS's power is growing around the world, that they are inspiring people globally to join their apocalyptic vision. That is something that airstrikes may not be able to deal with -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. OK, Barbara, thanks so much for that assessment.

Well, Donald Trump supporters like his plan to ban Muslims from coming to the U.S. What they don't like is what the GOP is doing to Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For them to come out and to go, to back-stab him like this, you know what? I'm done with the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: My sit-down with Trump supporters, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:07] CAMEROTA: Donald Trump creating an uproar in the Republican Party, prompting the RNC chairman, Reince Priebus, to rebuke him for his comments about Muslims.

So what do Trump's supporters think of the GOP backlash? I sat down with some of them at the historic Palace Theater in Stamford, Connecticut, to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Reince Priebus has just come forward and condemned Donald Trump for his Muslim remarks. Reince Priebus, the head of the RNC, as you all know...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... says I don't agree. We need to aggressively take on radical Islamic terrorism but not at the expense of our American values.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time to get rid of him.

CAMEROTA: Time to get rid of Reince Priebus?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. Time to get rid of him.

CAMEROTA: Given that the Republican rivals have come out against what he said about the ban on Muslims, Reince Priebus, the head of the party, has come out, do you think that there's a chance, Toni Ann, that he would choose a third-party run?

TONI ANN DIBARTOLO, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I do. Because he knows he has the people behind him. They feel very threatened by Trump.

He doesn't fall into their game or they can't put Trump in a box. And that's what we love about him. All the Trump supporters, we love that he's unvarnished, and he's just for the people.

GERRY DELEMUS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The Republican establishment hates Trump, because they're not going to be able to call the White House when Donald Trump is president and push their way in, because they gave money or they set up a meeting or set him up with donors. They're going to lose all of that influence. So there's huge money riding against him on this.

Donald uses the threat of going third party, because he's trying to slap them into line and keep them from going after him too aggressively.

JOSH YOUSSET, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump is a master at leverage. He'll do whatever advances the ball for himself the most expediently. And whether that means an independent run or maintaining a steady position in the GOP, he's going to do it.

But the people are sick and tired of being underrepresented or not represented at all.

CAMEROTA: John, you were next.

JOHN HIKEL, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I don't think he's going to leave the Republican Party. And I'll tell you, because he's doing so well in it right now, and frankly, when the national chair and all the other state chairs and all the other candidates, they know this is the primary. And they know that there's an awful lot at stake there. There's an awful lot the money. There's an awful lot of power. There's an awful lot of influence that they are at stake at losing. I think this is unprecedented, where had they've had a candidate that's been No. 1 from the beginning, that the establishment, that the leaders of the party don't want to actually represent the party.

WILLIAM BAER, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump signed an agreement to not run as a third party. Obviously implicit in that agreement is that the Republican Party wouldn't fight against him. By attacking somebody within a Republican primary, being Donald Trump, he's gotten no obligation to fulfill his end of the contract. They've breached their contract.

If he runs as an independent, if these Republicans think that we're going to fall back in line, like we've done for decades, they're wrong.

SUSAN DELEMUS, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: What happened to Reagan's 11th commandment? There's that GOP/RNC knife in the back. They have no place attacking any one of their candidates.

And Reince Priebus just showed his true colors. It's like Goliath and David. It's like -- it's like the prince and the dragon. You know, here's -- here's Trump, you know, wielding a sword, and you've got this huge flippant machine of a dragon coming after him. Who do you think the people are going to get behind?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other thing...

PAULA JOHNSON, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: The Republicans, the GOP cannot control him, and that's what they don't like about him. They can control Bush. They can control Rubio. They can control all of them.

For them to come out and to go, to backstab him like this, you know what? I'm done with the Republican Party. I don't think he's going to leave the party, but if Mr. Trump was to go independent, I will bring all my people -- I'm going to send a message to Congress. We're going to send a message to the Senate. We're going to send a message to the Democrats and the Republicans and this president when he leaves.

CAMEROTA: Most all of Donald Trump's Republican rivals have spoken out against this, saying that they find his language too strong and over the top. Even -- even Dick Cheney has said that he finds that un-American. But let me play for you what Lindsey Graham said on our air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAHAM: He's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. He doesn't represent my party. He doesn't represent the values that the men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Interesting, because...

JOHNSON: I'm appalled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump has got huge support in the military.

CAMEROTA: OK.

JOHNSON: He's got no support whatsoever. He is so low in the polls, you can't even find him anymore. And I wish he would just get out. He's part of the problem. He is the problem in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And the establishment.

JOHNSON: He was part of the Gang of Eight with John McCain, and they refused to close the borders. They want to let anybody come in. And you know what? If our borders were closed at this point in time, and we had a good program in place, then we wouldn't be looking at this problem right now.

So you know what, Lindsey Graham? Take your bags, go home. You've insulted me, and you're an elected official. Shame on you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen.

BAER: There's a reason that he's where he is in the polls, because basically, nobody really agrees with him.

He typifies the Republican Party's impotence in this country. The reason that many of us are supporting Donald Trump is because we're tired of seeing the, at best, impotence of the Republican Party in this country.

YOUSSET: When Lindsey Graham says that he -- that Donald Trump doesn't represent the Republican Party, Donald Trump represents the American party. The problem with the Republican Party is they have betrayed American value. These people represent their own agenda, their own...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Establishment.

YOUSSET: ... desire to use the political machine as a star-step to their own success.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right. Joining us to discuss what we've just heard is our CNN senior political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod.

David, thanks so much for being here.

The more the GOP attacks Donald Trump, the more his supporters dig in and like him and support him.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. Well, look, the essence of his appeal is that his anti-establishment. He's appealing to people who are very angry about what's going on in Washington. They think the Republican Party has been a part of that. And so, yes, every -- he will use this to his advantage.

CAMEROTA: I mean, they feel abandoned by what was previously their party, most of them. Some of them are independents. But they feel that politicians have promised them the world. They promised them they would overturn Obamacare. They promised them they would cut taxes. They promised them they would tackle the debt and the deficit. And they were abandoned by them. And they think that Donald Trump is the answer. So isn't this an interesting time?

The more the Republican rivals come out and try to take the party back and try to take the frontrunner status back, the more it backfires.

AXELROD: Well, the question is, how large is this base? And that's what nobody knows. Donald Trump has a solid 25 to 30 percent of the vote. I know it's a little higher in some polls, a little lower. But that's about where it is.

The question is, as his base gets stronger, does he drive potential voters for him away who might come to him later? He's doing well in a field of 14. What Republican leaders are gambling is that, when the field dwindles, that his support will be less meaningful.

CAMEROTA: Third-party run, is it possible that he could win as a third-party candidate? You know the math. Explain the math and if that could ever work.

AXELROD: I think it's very -- the system doesn't really -- isn't really set up for a third-party candidacy. Ross Perot put a billion dollars or a large amount of money behind his own candidacy. He was a very strong candidate. He was in the debates, did very well there. And he got 19 percent of the vote.

And I -- one of the things I've always questioned about Trump is, for all of his lavish praise of his own success, I don't know that he has the resources or the will to put resources into an independent campaign to the degree that it would cost to run a serious independent candidacy.

CAMEROTA: David, stick around. David Axelrod will be back with us in just a few minutes to talk about how all of this is impacting the larger 2016 race. We'll also have more with the Trump supporters in our next hour.

We're now less than a week away from the next CNN Republican debate. It is the final showdown of the year. Coverage begins on Tuesday at 6 p.m. Eastern for the undercard debate and then the main event at 8:30 Eastern, only here on CNN. Keep it here -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: I predict they'll have a few things to say at that debate.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: A few things to talk about.

Well, many Republicans have raised their anger over Donald Trump's comments. But will the GOP find a way to force them -- to join forces, rather, to beat him? We're going to ask that question of former New Jersey governor, Christine Todd Whitman. We'll get her take, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)