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Donald Trump Clarifies Proposal of Muslim Immigration Ban; Investigators in San Bernardino Shooting say Shooters Radicalized before Meeting Each Other; Investigators Focus on Marriage of San Bernardino Terrorists. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 10, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, December 10, 8:00 in the east. We have a new national poll this morning painting a very clear picture of the Republican race. Look who is on top, no surprise. But look at the margin. Hugely dominate as Trump would say himself, securing the highest level of support, 35 percent in the "New York Times" CBS poll. Ted Cruz second but distant, Carson falling away in third.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now, a little context for you. Most of the polling was done before Trump's controversial comments about Muslims. Trump now attempting to add some specifics to that plan. He sat down with CNN's Don Lemon to justify those comments. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We released three national polls last week. You're ahead by far. And then you release this controversial statement. Why not just sit on your big lead and just let it ride?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because, Don, I have to do what's right. We need a dialogue in the country and throughout the world. We have a big problem. And, as you know, I have many friends who are Muslims. They are phenomenal people. They are so happy at what I'm doing. I was called by three people today, very big. They said you are doing a tremendous service because unless people are going to be talking about it, it is never going to be solved.

The public agrees with what I said. They saw those two animals last week go out and shoot people, and the husband and wife. The wife came here on a phony visa, on a visa that frankly it's disgraceful that she was able to come in, and she radicalized, probably radicalized him.

LEMON: Fiance visa.

TRUMP: She had a fiance visa. And a disgusting, disgraceful thing. The people with me 100 percent are the people. And that's, frankly, all that matters.

LEMON: Let's talk about this proposal. You adjusted it slightly so that it would say that you would let American Muslims who are traveling overseas return to the country. This doesn't apply to U.S. citizens?

TRUMP: It never did. From day one it never did. I don't know why people thought it did. This applies to people coming into the country. And all it is a break until our politicians, who are grossly incompetent, by the way, can get their act together.

LEMON: And what about foreign diplomats or people from Muslim countries who are coming into the country --

TRUMP: Certainly exceptions can be made. I'm not going to say you can't come into the country And the one thing people didn't pick up. At the end of that sentence it said until we get our hands around it, essentially. Until we find out what the hell is going on, which is the expression I used. Now, that could go quickly. But you know what? It is a subject that has to be discussed.

LEMON: So you said there will be exceptions even for international athletes and competitions and --

TRUMP: Of course there will be exceptions. You can't keep people out like that. There will certainly be exceptions made.

LEMON: So you have been saying that until we figure out what's going on. What exactly does that that mean? Figure out what? What is there to figure out?

TRUMP: Why is there such hatred and such viciousness. Why is somebody willing to fly airplanes into the World Trade Center and go after it even prior to that? They failed although they did tremendous damage by any normal standard. And then after they failed they went and they actually took airplanes into the World Trade Center. Where does the hatred come from? We have to figure it out, because we have problems. So when you surveil the mosques, I took a lot of heat for surveillance of the mosques. Now other people are saying we have to surveil the mosques.

LEMON: You have big business interests in the Middle East. People are wondering why are you continuing to do business in the Middle East if you have such concerns --

LEMON: Because I have great relationships with people. I love the Middle East. I love the people of the Middle East. But there is a problem.

LEMON: -- affected by the policy you are proposing.

TRUMP: Maybe it will be. Look. That is one of those things. What I am doing now is far more important. And I'm talking about for the Muslims. I'm doing good for the Muslims. What I'm doing now is far more important than any particular business I have in the Middle East. I'm doing a big favor. I was just called by one of the most important people of the Middle East, and just said to me, Donald, you have done a tremendous service to the Muslims, because we're making -- nobody wants to talk about it. Everybody wants to be so politically correct. Oh, let everybody come in. We have a problem. And the problem has to be solved. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right, let's talk about this. We want to bring in CNN tonight anchor Don Lemon and Hugh Hewitt, radio talk show host of "The Hugh Hewitt Show" and a panelist of next week's Republican debate right here on CNN. Gentlemen, great to see you. Hugh, let me start with you. Let's just pull up these poll numbers again because they're very interesting. This was out an hour ago, "New York Times" CBS polls, and these numbers track almost identically to what CNN's most recent poll was. Donald Trump in this poll at 35 percent, in the CNN poll he was at 36 percent. Then number two Ted Cruz at half that, 16 percent. Then Carson 13, Rubio nine, Bush three. Hugh, what are you seeing?

[08:05:10] HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think 35 percent is a significant number. Donald Trump has a significant lead right now. I do want to go through the numbers very quickly, Alisyn. It takes 1,236 delegates to get the nomination. There are 30 delegates at stake in Iowa, 23 in New Hampshire, 15 in South Carolina, and 30 in Nevada. Then there is 565 on super Tuesday. Then there are about 300 in the couple of weeks afterwards. Those are all proportional delegates.

So by March 15 when the winner-take-alls roll in there are 1,000 delegates available. That means if Donald Trump wins 35 percent he'll have 350 delegates of 1236 necessary to win. The race is so far from over.

But right now after one lap of a 14 or 15 lap race Donald Trump is weigh ahead. And Don Lemon helped him last night by giving him a lot of opportunity to do a very long, extended revision and explanation of his remarks. It was a great interview, but that 35 percent is going to be solid for some time.

CUOMO: Don, in terms of what he thinks of the ban, did you get a sense he wanted to qualify it, he wanted to make it more palatable, that he felt he had gone too far.

LEMON: So you know how we conduct these interviews. I said, OK, let's start with a good foot so you can continue the interview. So I start off with the polls. Right away he wanted to talk about the ban, and he wanted to continue to talk about it, because I actually do think he thinks it is important. And I don't get the sense he thinks it is wrong.

CAMEROTA: Did he want to clarify or you forced him to clarify?

LEMON: No, he wanted to clarify. I wanted more detail. What I wanted from him is practicality, how would he put this into practice, how would this work. Is he going to stop people as they're coming over on the plane as a TSA agent? How is this going to happen? So it is not for me to judge whether it is right or wrong. It is your plan. This is your plan. Explain it. And how are you going to make it work?

CAMEROTA: Did he give the specifics how he was going to execute it?

LEMON: He said we have to have members of our member nations and all of our allies join in to help us with that. Of course you are not going to get everyone. There will be exceptions but we've got to start somewhere basically.

CUOMO: Hugh, I think you have a bigger problem within the party. The practicalities are obvious. The legalities are arguable but also obvious. You have a moral question here that is going to be a position of leadership, values, what you are and what you are not. And the question is, it's easy for people to say I don't like what Trump just said. Who is offering something better to acknowledge the fear and make people feel that it can be better?

HEWITT: I watched Don last night, and, again it was a superb interview, Donald Trump used the word "animal" to describe the terrorist killers of San Bernardino. That is a word with incredibly visceral connection with people who are afraid. And so Donald Trump goes up emotionally in his connection with his voters.

Now, on the stage on Tuesday night, he will be challenged by other Republicans as to the totality of the ban, and he'll respond as he did to Don by refining and extending his remarks, but what is going on in the heart of Republican Party is a search for who can viscerally connect with people on a way to completely devastate Hillary Clinton, who is not viewed as trustworthy, and who is not as weak as President Obama is viewed.

And so Donald Trump's 35 percent, it is not a moral case. I think it is a visceral, emotional connection. I'd also point out, he's a developer. He always asks for more density than he ends up settling for. He always overstates and then walks back, refines, and gets what he wants. So what I saw unfolding last night and the day before, Chris, in your interview with him is a very expert communicator. And I've said this a million times. He's done more television than anybody else in this race. He uses this camera better than anyone else in this race. But that 35 percent may be the ceiling that he can't get through.

And the most interesting thing that Don asked last night, will you stay in the race? What's it mean to be treated fair? And I will leave it for Don to summarize that, but as a Republican, and I am a conservative Republican. I'm not going to vote for Hillary. I'm going to support the Republican Party. I don't have any favorites, but I leaned in when Don asked him those questions, and I'm not sure what I heard. I'd be interested to hear what Don heard.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Don, what does he mean treated fairly?

LEMON: It's so nebulous. He said treated fairly, but he said specifically he said if I'm not treated as the front runner by far with that respect and decorum then I'm going to do what I have to do.

What he is saying, and I asked him, but he kept bringing up the Republican establishment. And I said you really take issue with the Republican establishment. Why? He doesn't feel they take him seriously much of the time. That he is indeed the front runner by double digits. If you look at anyone in the polling that we have and the "New York Times" released, by double digits he's a front runner. He doesn't feel he gets the respect.

[08:10:09] CUOMO: He doesn't feel it because he doesn't. Hugh Hewitt, you don't like him in the party. You call us all the time.

HEWITT: Don't say "you guys." I'm just a panelist.

CUOMO: You just said you're a conservative Republican. A lot of your brothers and sisters call us on the phone and say why are you boosting this guy? You know, are you just doing this for Hillary Clinton? He's not going to be the nominee. What are you wasting the time? He's right to feel that the GOP isn't embracing him.

HEWITT: It was funny. Last night he made very clear comments on gun control and he dismissed as completely irrelevant to the question of terror in America ideas that magazine rounds will stop animals with pipe bombs, 19 pipe bombs. When he does that and I point out he was very clear on gun control, a lot of Trump's opponents took to Twitter to denounce me for saying he did a good job in denouncing gun control. There are a lot of people that don't like Donald Trump. There are a lot to do like Donald Trump.

Back to my numbers, I'm a numbers guy, it takes 1236 delegates. He's got 35 percent of the first 1,000. It is so long to go. But what he has done is he has completely inverted this race, because it used to be you won Iowa you got a lot of media attention and you do well in New Hampshire. You can't get any more media attention than Donald Trump's already got.

So on that stage we'll have Trump. On his one side will be Ted Cruz, on his other side will be Marco Rubio, a little bit further Chris Christie, those are the four in the top tier. And if the other four, Fiorina and Kasich and Jeb Bush and whoever else I've forgotten, they all need to pile in on Donald Trump. If he thinks that is not treating him fairly, that would be misinformed because, the frontrunner always get dog piled. It's sort of like when a Brown breaks away for a touchdown they are always chasing his heels and they usually catch. We'll, they're going to catch up to Donald Trump in the next couple of weeks.

LEMON: As Chris and I always say, though, the guy that carries gets hit. Why are people criticizing me? You are carrying the ball. You are going to get hit.

CAMEROTA: All right, Hugh, we know you have to go get ready for the debate so we'll let you go. Right now we are only five days away from the final Republican debate of the year right here on CNN, of course. Coverage begins Tuesday night at 6:00 eastern. That is the undercard debate, then the main event at 8:30 eastern only here on CNN. Don, thank you. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, was the marriage of the two San Bernardino shooters a sham? The FBI now investigating whether it was arranged in order to carry out that attack. CNN also learning the wife was not questioned about jihadist intentions during the visa screening process overseas. We want to begin our coverage on this with CNN's Ana Cabrera live in San Bernardino. Ana?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. What we're learning this morning is really raising new questions about how it is possible these two killers managed to fly under law enforcement radar for so long. We're getting a better look at the timeline of their radicalization. It appears the intelligence failures are bigger than first thought.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: New shocking details emerging about the husband and wife terrorists behind San Bernardino attacks. The FBI revealing Tashfeen Malik and Syed Rizwan Farook were radicalized before they even met each other or started dating online two years ago.

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: As early as the end of 2013 they were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom before they became engaged and then married and then lived together in the United States.

CABRERA: Malik is seen here arriving to the U.S. on a fiance visa in the summer of 2014. A State Department official says the Pakistani native was never asked about her jihadist or radical views when interviewed by a U.S. consular official in Pakistan. Officials say it is because the Department of Homeland Security found no flags in her visa application, and she passed two other security database checks. Since Farook is an American born citizen, officials are now wondering if their marriage was a sham, arranged to carry out a long- planned terror attack.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Is there any evidence that this marriage was arranged by a terrorist organization or terrorist operative?

COMEY: I don't know the answer to that yet.

GRAHAM: Do you agree with me that if it was arranged by a terrorist operative or an organization that is a game changer?

COMEY: That would be a very, very important thing to know.

CABRERA: This as investigators learn the husband may have planned other terror attacks before with another U.S. citizens. Farook's friend and former neighbor Enrique Marquez told investigators that they were both radicalized in early 2011 and plotted an attack back in 2012. But after terror-related arrests in area they stopped the plan. Marquez also admitted to buying Farook guns, two of which were used in the San Bernardino killing. But he told investigators he didn't know about the couple's plans. He has yet to be charged with a crime.

COMEY: We're also working very hard to understand whether there was anybody else involved with assisting them, with supporting them, with equipping them. And we're working very, very hard to understand did they have other plans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:15:01] CABRERA: Now we understand there has been a breakthrough in accessing some of the couple's electronics communications. Remember the couple made great lengths to destroy their cell phones. There was a computer hard drive that is still missing. But we've learned that the FBI has managed to find some electronics communications on other cell phones and a tablet computer that was also found inside the couple's town home -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. It will be interesting to see what those contain. Ana, thank you.

And also, we will press the State Department about how they missed this couple's sinister plan during the visa screening process. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: New information coming out of the San Bernardino investigation, and it is not good. Word that the marriage between the two San Bernardino terrorists may have been a sham designed to facilitate the eventual attack.

Meanwhile the wife comes out when she was getting her visa application done as the fiancee, wasn't asked about jihadist tendencies. Is that something she should she have been asked about?

Let's bring in State Department spokesperson John Kirby.

John, it's good to have you here.

People are afraid. They think you can't catch the bad guys and that's why Donald Trump is saying we have to ban all Muslims. How can you reassure the American people they are safe?

JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Well, listen, we understand those concerns and those fears, and we take nothing more seriously than the safety and security of Americans overseas and here at home.

[08:20:04] That's one of the charges here at the State Department.

I can tell you, we're watching this investigation closely, Chris. We don't have any indications that the screening process for Ms. Malik was any different for any other fiancee, or that there were any things missing inside this very rigorous screening process.

But I can tell you this, if the investigation turns up information that tells us there was something amiss in the screening process or something we should have done than we didn't, or that the screening process needs to be improved to make it more rigorous -- well, we'll do that.

CUOMO: Fair criticism that she should have been asked about jihadist tendencies and activities?

KIRBY: Well, listen, I don't want to get into the investigation. Those are things the investigators are asking as they should ask. What I can tell you is, and I've looked at the records, that she went through the same rigorous process that every other person applying for a K-1 fiance visa goes through. Again, if we find areas to improve the process or mistakes that have been made we'll be accountable and make the proper changes.

CUOMO: That's what I'm asking you, John. Do you think that you have to start asking Muslim people from Pakistan if they have jihadist tendencies?

KIRBY: Well, what I can tell you, without going into the specifics of the actual process, it includes fingerprint, it does includes a series of background checks. There is a face-to-face interview that has to occur.

I mean, there is a multi layered approach here. And it is not just the State Department doing it with a fiancee overseas. It's the Department of Homeland Security doing it with the other fiance here in the United States. So, it's a team effort. But again, we're going to watch this investigation very closely and if we have to improve, we will.

CUOMO: When you look at the context of the circumstances, it seems like these two were doing little but plan against the United States. They're getting this neighbor to help them. The marriage they set up. They met online. They did a lot of talking. They were radicalized before. They were moving money around.

How come none of this was picked up?

KIRBY: Well, again, that's part of the investigation, Chris. I don't want to get ahead of investigators in the very important work that they are doing, the very important work that they're doing.

Clearly, these individuals had an intent to do harm and that's never a good thing. Obviously, we take that very seriously.

But in terms of motive, in terms of timing and planning, I'd leave that to the investigators to speak to.

CUOMO: Right. I mean, my question goes to what they don't know. Not what they do know. I mean, you can leave it to the investigators because they didn't know any of this stuff. It's coming out now, and that's what's fuelling the fear is that this started out as maybe workplace. Then it went to, maybe he wind up getting hoodwinked by a radicalized woman. Now, it is, no, no, no. This guy was bad all along. Forget about what his family says. They obviously missed it or they ignored it because this was going on, including that mother living at his house for years.

KIRBY: I think, you know, as the investigation goes on more information may come to light and I think we all just need to let investigators do their work. You are right, there have been a series of statements now and information out there that kind of changes the perspective on this attack. And I think that that may continue as investigators keep doing their work.

But, Chris, you know as well as I -- somebody wishes to do harm. If that is their intent and they have that from the get go it is very, very difficult for them to be completely stopped.

Now, I say that knowing in fact that law enforcement and the FBI and the Department of Justice and Homeland Security have stopped countless attacks on our soil, things that never got off the ground and got started because of the great investigative work they do.

But every now and then, somebody is going to get through. It's a reality that is certainly not something we're glad about. But it is something, when somebody has that intent, it can be very difficult. They have to be right once. We have to be right 24/7, 365 days a year.

CUOMO: Fair. The odds are against you.

What do you think of the idea of a moratorium on all immigration until we figure out how to better police the United States?

KIRBY: Well, I think Secretary Kerry spoke to this the other day. I mean, one of the great things we have to balance in the country is our national security, obviously the safety and security of our people, as well as the foundation of our country as an immigrant society and a welcoming country.

We have to balance those things and we're doing -- we're working at that very, very hard. But I think to stop all immigration would be to not only go against our own policies. But it would be going against our culture and our tradition as a country. And I don't think that serves anybody at all.

Now it also would feed the narrative ISIL wants to feed, that America isn't a fair and open society, that we are persecuting or discriminating against people of a certain faith. That's just not who we are and we here at the State Department think it would be manifestly counterproductive.

CUOMO: John Kirby, thank you very much. Appreciate you coming on NEW DAY.

KIRBY: Thank you.

CUOMO: Mick?

PEREIRA: Well, Trump supporters meanwhile are sounding off and defending the Republican front runner even after those controversial statements. Why do they stand behind him? We're going to hear from them directly, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:53] CAMEROTA: A new national poll out this morning shows Donald Trump again dominant. "The New York Times"/CBS poll puts Trump with more than a two to one advantage over his nearest rival. Trump gets 35 percent, Ted Cruz, a distant second at 16. Most of this polling was before Trump's controversial statements about Muslims. Those comments were not his first provocative statements about Muslims. You remember, he also claimed to see thousands of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11.

I sat down with some Trump supporters at the historic Palace Theater in Stanford, Connecticut, to ask what they think of Trump and the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Next topic: the truth, and Donald Trump's relationship with the truth. Much has been made about he exaggerates claims. But let's talk about some of the examples whether or not he was telling the truth.

Toni Ann, I'll start with you. So, he said that on 9/11, there were thousands and thousands of people in New Jersey celebrating.

TONI ANN DIBARTOLO, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yes, I did know he said that.

CAMEROTA: That has proven not to be true.

DIBARTOLO: Well, I think what he actually said was that he was in Jersey City, Jersey on 9/11 and yes like you said he saw thousands of people.