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Fiorina Rejects Rhetoric Led To Planned Parenthood Shooting; Can The War Against ISIS Be Won?; Poll: Majority Of Americans Oppose Trump's Anti-Muslim Plan. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 11, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:02] TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We'll do very well in New Hampshire.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Governor Tom Ridge, appreciate you joining us. Thank you, sir. Have a nice weekend.

RIDGE: Great pleasure to join you. Thank you.

HARLOW: Chris, back to you.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Poppy, it's a good take on the national security system and the ongoing race, specifically up in New Hampshire. Just moments ago we had another player in the game, Republican candidate, Carly Fiorina here on NEW DAY. We'll play what she said about some controversial topics and get your reaction, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Enjoying the show so far, worth getting up?

HARLOW: Only next to you. What are you eating over there?

CUOMO: Blueberry doughnut. You want some?

HARLOW: No. I had some yogurt and granola.

CUOMO: Too healthy for me, Harlow.

Carly Fiorina minutes ago on NEW DAY defending her numbers which are slipping in the polls. She said she is going to be there in the end and she flatly rejects the idea that inflammatory idea may have led to the shooting in Colorado at that Planned Parenthood clinic.

Let's bring in Michael Smerconish, CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH." I wanted to test on the idea of why are her numbers going down and also the nature of the impact of inflammatory rhetoric. We've seen it out of many different people and the election. What was your take, Michael?

[07:35:09] MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that she's been hurt for three reasons. Chief among them is what you just referenced. Her credibility definitely suffered a setback with her comments about Planned Parenthood and then her intransigents, her refusal to acknowledge that she was relying on stock footage as you referenced.

I'm not looking at partisan web sites. I'm looking at fact check organizations like factcheck.org from the Annenberg Center which said look, at that video, they're relying on stock footage that had nothing to do with the incident that it pro-claimed to be.

So there was Planned Parenthood, the business record at HP, when Jeffrey Sonnenfeld from Yale came out, when Andrew Ross Sorkin from the "New York Times" came out and said you need to take a closer look at her record at HP, I think that hurt.

But chief among the reasons as to why she's faded is that she distinguished herself in that first debate last summer and Republicans thought maybe she's the one best equipped to take on Hillary and to embody the anger that we're feeling but she was totally supplanted by Donald Trump.

He took all the oxygen out of the room. He became the chosen one for that very pent up, frustrated crowd within the GOP.

HARLOW: So Michael, what plays really well with that pent-up crowd is attacking us, attacking the media.

SMERCONISH: Definitely.

HARLOW: She's done that, like Donald Trump has successfully done twice in the interview with Chris. First of all, saying you're a journalist, Chris and asking his -- and then asking his opinion on it.

CUOMO: She asked it as a question. Did she say are you a journalist?

HARLOW: She said you're a journalist. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: There were scenes and pictures depicting horrible things that nobody should want to see that weren't authentic and weren't germane to the conversation within the video. We had the guy on here. Now somebody went out and killed in the name of that?

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Really? Really? OK. I don't recall, Chris, careful, you're a journalist.

CUOMO: Yes.

FIORINA: I don't recall anybody in the pro-life community celebrating this tragedy. I don't recall any of that happening. It's clear what your opinion is, Chris. It's clear what your opinion is.

CUOMO: What's my opinion, Miss Fiorina, what do you think it is?

FIORINA: Well, I think you've bought the Planned Parenthood line, hook, line and sinker. Good to know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: All right. Also, Michael, on top of that, she said the media has not given her a fair amount of time. Is this tactic going to help her?

SMERCONISH: It's a tactic that's being now relied on by a number of the Republican candidates who are saying, I've heard a lot of this blow back, why are you giving so much attention to Donald Trump?

I think the response is to say if the public had more a desire to listen to what you, and in this case it would be Carly Fiorina had to say, believe me, the CNN cameras and everybody else's camera would be on your doorstep.

This is the guy who is commanding all of the interest and the attention. Two things have happened this week that are significant. Both were focus groups. Alisyn Camerota had a fascinating focus group.

The Frank Luntz focus group that created a buzz in the political community both showed the hardened nature of the support for Donald Trump among those 30 percent to 35 percent.

As we look toward Tuesday, I think the other candidates who were on that stage need to be focused. Not so much on how do I win Trump's 35 percent because you're probably not going to, but how do I grab the 65 percent that are still left on the table?

CUOMO: Well, that's an interesting point. You know, you say that, don't go after Trump, go at each other, that will help you more. Explain.

SMERCONISH: Because the attacks on Trump thus far have -- he's been -- he is the original Teflon don. That's what I want to say. Every time he comes up with a statement and we scratch our heads and say, my god, this will be the end of the guy, the statement about Muslims, about John McCain, fill in the blank.

Instead it's exactly -- look at the internals of that "Times" poll today. It's exactly what this constituency and Republican Party are looking for. Regardless of the veracity, they're looking for that tone.

So if you're not going to crack his 35 percent, maybe you better be looking to your left and right on that stage and decide how you can distinguish yourself among the others who are left. Going after Donald Trump hasn't worked thus far.

CUOMO: That's it, left us in silence, Michael Smerconish -- too much intelligence.

HARLOW: He always does with his wisdom. I watch his show and I'm just silent.

CUOMO: All right, Michael, thank you very much. Look forward to being out there in Vegas with you next week. Check out "SMERCONISH" Saturdays 9:00 a.m. Eastern on CNN. HARLOW: All right, the final GOP debate of the year is right here on CNN. Coverage begins Tuesday night at 6:00 p.m. Eastern is the undercard event, followed by the main debate event, 8:30 Eastern, only right here.

[07:40:05]CUOMO: ISIS sure to be a focal point at the debate. How do we keep America safe? Is it possible to deliver a knockout blow to ISIS? You know what we're being told, we're not winning. Here's what we need to do to win. Is that the right way to look at it? Are we all being deceived by the question next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: No matter which side of the debate or political party you're listening to, you're hearing the same things when it comes to the war against ISIS. Here's what we need to do to win and win now. Here's why we're not winning fast enough.

This is taking too long to win. Are we winning? It's always put in that context, right? Is that the right way to frame it? Is that deceptively framing it?

Aaron David Miller joins us right now, the vice president for New Initiatives and a distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center. It's very good to have you, sir, as always.

What is your answer to that query we should win in this war? Why aren't we winning yet? What don't you like about that?

AARON DAVID MILLER, VICE PRESIDENT FOR NEW INITIATIVES, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: It's typically American, Chris, quintessentially American, fixes for problems that are incredibly complicated, systemic problems.

[07:45:09]First of all, let me make something clear, I'm not a declinist. I'm not a defeatist. I'm not running for anything. The reality is on this one, I'm not -- not to trivialize it, I'm with Groucho Marx, who argues, who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

And the fact is I see what I see, 14 years after 9/11, that's twice the amount of time it took the allies to defeat the powers during the Second World War. I look and see Jihadis are thriving. They're not losing.

In the last month you've seen attacks against four members, four permanent members of Security Council, either inspired or directed by the Islamic State, the United States, France, Russia, and perhaps even Britain on the subways.

You've got a Middle East that is broken, angry, dysfunctional, empty spaces, vicious ideologies, a Syrian and Iraqi humpty dumpty that can't be put together again and then you have Islam itself, vast majority, 1.6 billion Muslims don't ascribe to these vicious and perverse ideologies. But a significant minority who's prepared to act does sub vibe and is invoking Islam in the name of its killing and its dying. You put all this together, and I reach the conclusion that, yes, we can try to keep ourselves safer than we are.

We can kill leaders, choke finances, maybe even crush ISIS's base of operations in Syria but can we win the war against jihadi terror? Can we win the war on drugs, on crime, on poverty, on mental illness?

These are long-term challenges. The key, it seems to me, is to continue to fight, do it smartly, protect our security and in the process makes sure we're protecting our values at the same time. It's not a perfect strategy, Chris, but I think in the end it's the right one for America to adopt.

CUOMO: We ask you about this because you've been fighting this for decades with different administrations as you say. But something that will take another beat for people to accept, I think, is that the idea that this is like poverty, this is like poor education, that's what fighting terror is like. Why? Why isn't it just about taking out these bad guys in their concentration right now and putting that to rest?

MILLER: Because there's always the day after problem and there's a certain reality, limitations of American power. Look, we were in Iraq -- I mean, it took us 10, 20, 30 days militarily to get the job done in Iraq.

It took us ten years to try to figure out whether or not we could create -- and we couldn't -- the sustainable conditions for good governance, respect for human rights, a sectarian balance between Sunnis and Shia.

The problem is, in order to ultimately deal with the problem of radical Islam and Jihadis, you have to ultimately create a sense of ownership in the region where Arab and Muslim leaders are prepared to rise above their narrow sectarian differences, address the myriad of problems that beset their societies.

And I'm not persuaded, frankly, that the United States after a decade of war in Afghanistan and Iraq, the two longest wars in American history, that the standard is never when can we win but when can we leave, do we have the capacity to do this.

We could deploy Special Forces. Choke off finances of these Jihadis. But the notion somehow that we are going to find a comprehensive victory as we did during the Second World War over the Germans and the Japanese, and to fundamentally rebuild these societies, support middle class respect for human rights, good governance, I'm sorry, at a minimum, Chris, it's a generational struggle.

It is not something we'll be able to win definitively. It is the president's job to reassure. The president tried to do that on Sunday. It's also the job of presidents to do reality therapy, particularly when the fight is going to be long and hard. And I this I that aspect of it is incredibly important. It's true on the "r" side as well as the "d" side. Republican candidates and on the "d" side as well, you know, seem to have better ideas, more effective, conclusive solutions for these problems.

[07:50:01]And again, again, I'll close by quoting one of my favorite philosophers, Reinhold, the guy argued that the best you can do even in America is to find proximate solutions to problems. We do that on American security we'll be way ahead of the game, proximate solutions to insoluble problems.

CUOMO: As always, Aaron David Miller, giving us a lot to think about. Thank you very much for coming on NEW DAY, sir.

MILLER: Always a pleasure, Chris. Thank you.

CUOMO: Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, coming up next, the politics legendary political journalist, Carl Bernstein will be with us. We will talk about a host of issues including can anyone bring down Donald Trump? We're going talk about national security. Look at the split among GOP primary voters right now whether Muslims should be ban. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Global condemnation not hurting Donald Trump, the Republican front runner certainly not in Republican polls. His no non-sense rhetoric and refusal to back down is resonating with very angry voters who want change and they are certainly hearing it from him.

[07:55:08]But when you look at policy, could he prove to be dangerous for the country? Here to talk about all of it, CNN political commentator, legendary journalist, and author of "The Woman In Charge, The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton," Carl Bernstein is with us. Good morning. Thank you for being here.

When you look at these polls, what I find fascinating, Trump's proposal to ban Muslims. When you look at it among registered GOP voters across the country, almost evenly split.

And let's talk about the bigger picture here, historically. Do you see this, Donald Trump, the way he's running, the words he's using as a one off, as an anomaly or is it reflective of something we've seen in past presidential elections?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We've seen front runners falter in 1992 Chris's father was the front runner I think and then in the Democratic Party and then he didn't run. But no, something different is going on here, which is that for the first time we have a celebrity kryptofascist who is leading the agenda of the Republican Party.

He has led the debate in terms of what is being debated and the substance. And finally the rest of the Republican Party and the other candidates seeing his staying power are saying wait a minute. This guy could win this thing and now maybe we have to back up now that he's crossed this line of no return and outrage.

HARLOW: But is that fair to call him --

BERNSTEIN: Absolutely.

HARLOW: On the point, it is not just him who's saying this and believes it. He has the broad majority of support among Republican registered voters at this time.

BERNSTEIN: Yes. And for real reasons because the anger is real out there, people are angry at banks. People are angry at the establishment. They are angry at government. White working a class people are getting screwed and they know it. So you have a demagogue who appeals to that.

Rather than with constructive solutions he's got very easy answers. But is he a kryptofascist celebrity, and don't discount the celebrity aspect of this. Yes he is. Also in the media Carly Fiorina is absolutely right, which she said as other candidates about cable news giving Trump a free ride in terms of air time.

HARLOW: I don't think that's a free ride.

BERNSTEIN: No, it is about the access to us and how much air time they get. It is very different than what print does. Where print gives Trump a lot of space talking substantively about what he's opposing. We have got given other candidates the floor.

CUOMO: Does he get more attention? Yes. Is there good and bad reason for that? Yes. But to balance out the equation a little bit. We asked the other candidates to come on all the time. They say no. Why? Well, because this isn't a free pass when you come on the show.

Understood, they don't want to go against Trump. And he usually gives you a beat down if you go toe to toe because his political skills are better. And he is resonating what people believe. He says the solutions are simple because they are if you can just get it done.

He's not saying the Muslim is the enemy. He's saying terror is the enemy. Muslims are terrorists. Let's put a hold on before we figure out anymore danger here, 40 party of his party agrees. Does that make him kryptoflashist or just someone who is just telling people what they feel?

BERNSTEIN: A great demagogue connected with what was going on with the people in this country as has Donald Trump, but is he a kryptofascist. Does he want a kind of authoritative nationalism and demagogic at that? Yes. Does he want a dictatorial kind of state including his own powers when he says I'll do this, I'll do that? That's what kryptofascism is.

HARLOW: There is a psychological argument that's being thrown out a little more especially this week about Trump, the psychological appeal of him and it's something called ambiguity intolerance. The people are so sick of uncertainty and not knowing really what their politicians think or what they will do. He plays right into that. BERNSTEIN: Of course he does, but also complexity. Forget ambiguity intolerance. We have trouble with complexity in our culture in our media. Complexity is what defines the problems that we're dealing with in this country. People are looking for easy answers, many people.

Also he is driving the agenda of the Republican Party right now. And he has been driving it in this election way to the right in places it's never been before. Now we're seeing pull back and push back, but it is a great opportunity for the Democrats.