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GOP Rivals Spar in Last Debate of the Year. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 16, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: -- really energizing, actually.

[06:30:01] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, better night. It was worth the money to have the private guard standing outside Alisyn's room. She only tried to slip out once.

CAMEROTA: Here we go. It starts at 6:29 East Coast Time.

CUOMO: Getting arrested, when on assignment is an unusual thing, I think is worthy of comment.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for the bond money. I know that's what you're looking for. Thank you.

CUOMO: It may cost me half, later have it (ph).

All right. So, last night was about what it's supposed to be about -- terrorism, national security, what you would do as president, specifically different from what we're seeing right now.

CAMEROTA: So, the Republican candidates presented their plan to keep the country safe during last night's debate. Whose ideas best past the test? We'll explore all of that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:02] CUOMO: Welcome back. We are live at the Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas.

This was the scene of the big event. There it is, the beautiful windows, the beautiful canals where one NEW DAY anchor was known to be hanging out, screaming, you know I'm the best, you know I am.

CAMEROTA: Yes, you shouldn't have done that.

CUOMO: We won't say who but the name rhymed --

CAMEROTA: You shouldn't have done that last night.

CUOMO: -- with Ralyson Ramerato.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: All right. The big issue last night, national security, terrorism specifically. It was dominating the debate, but it was about how and who said what last night, who laid out the idea that what they'll do is not only right but really different.

Let's discuss with some big brains: Matt Schlapp, former political director under George W. Bush, Matt Lewis, senior contributor for "The Daily Caller", and former Democratic Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm.

Good to have you all here.

So, let me start with you, Mr. Schlapp. Who do you think last night said things that showed a distinction and ownership of the issue? Did anyone come out numero uno?

MATT SCHLAPP, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I was -- I have to say, I think Jeb Bush had a very solid night. These debates have not been his best moments. Last night, he felt and looked much more comfortable. I think he had solid answers on the questions of national security.

I also think when you hear Carly Fiorina go through these questions, including the question on North Korea, she just sounds so ready to make these decisions.

CAMEROTA: Governor, let's talk about one of the headlines. Donald Trump often speaks in headlines and then is pressed to have to give specifics, including shutting down the Internet. He would, in terms of fighting terrorism, one of his suggestions was -- well, don't let terrorists get on the Internet.

So, he was asked how he would possibly do that. Let's play his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ISIS is using the Internet better than we are using the Internet and it was our idea. What I wanted to do is I wanted to get our brilliant people from Silicon Valley and other places and figure out a way that ISIS cannot do what they're doing. You talk freedom of speech or you talk freedom of anything you want -- I don't want them using our Internet to take our young, impressionable youth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Vintage Trump.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Where it just makes you feel good. There's a logic in that, get our smartest people to get them to stop doing that.

GRANHOLM: Of course you would. Of course you would. Right?

CAMEROTA: Does that work?

GRANHOLM: Well, I mean, I think actually Rand Paul had a great response to him following that, really.

But what I thought was so interesting, Trump of course always has the simplistic solutions, which people like. They do want to feel good. But in reality, it is a really complex problem.

I agree with you that Bush had a good night. But what's interesting to me is that Bush's solutions are almost all of same things that Hillary Clinton has been saying, including on the Internet. I mean, she gave a speech. She sort of pre-butted last night's debate when she was in Minnesota --

CAMEROTA: About national security.

GRANHOLM: -- about national security.

But she called it a 360-degree strategy where you defeat them there, you defeat them here and you defeat them on the Internet, and had very specific measures under each of those.

When you combine that with the two other previous speeches that she gave at the Council of Foreign Relations and the Brookings Institute -- I mean, she has this unbelievably comprehensive adult strategy. Compared with what you heard last night, it was very difficult.

By the way, Bush's differences with her are really only about boots on the ground. Trump has so many differences it's not even funny.

SCHLAPP: Well, I couldn't disagree with you more.

CUOMO: Then do it.

SCHLAPP: This debate last night, I'm sure Matt would agree with me, this debate last night was about the problem of the Obama/Clinton foreign policy, and the fact that actually we're less safe today -- at least Americans feel that way.

Look at Obama's approval ratings --

GRANHOLM: Tell me what Bush is saying that's different.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHLAPP: How about this, how about our enemy fears us? And I think that's been the biggest change of what's happened on the world today.

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHHOLM: Wait, wait. How about using language that stokes our enemy into making us the recruiter? Which is what we were doing --

SCHLAPP: Stop.

GRANHOLM: -- by more mentions of --

SCHLAPP: It's not America's fault that ISIS is trying to destroy us.

GRANHOLM: You need to have allies. You need Muslim allies with you on the ground to be able to --

SCHLAPP: And that's what Jeb Bush said.

GRANHOLM: Right, he said that. Then the language they're using, the insulting language that they have against allies that we want to recruit to be able to put boots on the ground --

CUOMO: All right. Hold on a second. We know what the two lines of attack are here. No, no, no.

CAMEROTA: I thought the debate ended last night. No, it didn't.

CUOMO: But here's the fair space for you to come in here, Matt. It's not just about what you would do. We know what to do. You're not getting it done. We know what to say. You're not saying it the right way.

What did you takeaway last night that made you giddy with excitement that you can win this thing in the general?

GRANHOLM: Giddy.

MATT LEWIS, THE DAILY CALLER: Well, look, first of all, I think -- let me just say I think it was a great debate. Very, you know, nuanced. I think you had different world views shown there.

But I think it was very clear that Republicans are very comfortable talking about the serious threats. I think they're getting better. You know, Barack Obama went through something like 19 debates against Hillary Clinton before he ended up getting the nomination.

[06:40:04] I think if Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or whomever becomes the nominee, the fact that they went through this process will make them stronger, especially when it comes to talking about national security.

The one thing I would caution, though, I do think that when it comes to somebody having a hawkish foreign policy, sort of defending the Bush era, Lindsey Graham actually was the best at doing that.

CAMEROTA: I'm glad you brought that up, because he's no dove as we all know.

LEWIS: But he wasn't on the big stage.

CAMEROTA: But to Matt Schlapp, to the governor's point, he does believe that Trump's rhetoric, he does tie a direct thread between Trump's rhetoric to recruitment for ISIS. In fact, he felt it was important last night to talk about how many American Muslims are in our armed forces.

Let me just play that moment for you last night from the undercard debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: At least 3,500 American Muslims serving in the armed forces. Thank you for your service.

(APPLAUSE)

You are not the enemy. Your religion is not the enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So, Matt, strong point?

SCHLAPP: Yes. I think it's a great answer.

Look, I always say Donald Trump is like Forrest Gump. He makes a point, he scores a touchdown, but he just keeps running. In the case on his language of barring Muslims, he went way too far. And the fact is, I think several of our candidates last night made the point very clear.

If we don't want to put American boots on the ground everywhere all over the globe, you have to deal with partners. In the case of the Middle East, you have to deal with moderate Muslims.

LEWIS: But don't you think the problem? I would say, I think the problem though, is, Trump's simplistic solution sells better, maybe to a Republican base and certainly on the stage. What Lindsey Graham was talking about there is absolutely correct. But it's a harder argument to make. It requires more steps to comprehend.

GRANHOLM: It's a harder argument to make to a Republican base in terms of --

LEWIS: It's also not a bumper sticker, though.

GRANHOLM: Right, that's exactly right. This is a complex problem. This is not a bumper sticker problem. And that's why what he said in that first debate, I actually stood up and said bravo.

SCHLAPP: That's why he's doing so poorly in all candor. He appeals to the people who aren't voting in our primary.

GRANHOLM: I know. Your primary strategy is really going to be damaging for the general election, whoever your nominee is.

SCHLAPP: We're going to find out.

GRANHOLM: Well, we will find out about this notion banning Muslims and the language that is being used is not language that most Americans want. It's why --

CUOMO: We don't know that yet.

GRANHOLM: If you ask -- if you ask across the board, Hillary Clinton is nine points up among Trump, Cruz, et cetera.

SCHLAPP: That's not true.

GRANHOLM: I'm just talking about the polls. On who would make America safer.

CUOMO: All right. Gov, thank you very much.

GRANHOLM: Yes.

CUOMO: The Matts, thank you very much.

GRANHOLM: Going to the matt.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Beautiful thing is, you know who decides? You do. You get to watch what's going on. We'll test it all, but you make the decisions.

Who you want to hear from most? Of course, the candidates. We're going to play you the sound, but you're also going to get to hear from them this morning. Tough time for them to get up. Shows how important it is.

Florida governor, former Governor Jeb Bush is going to be on live in a little bit. We're going to have Carly Fiorina and we're going to have certainly the man of the moment on the undercard, Senator Lindsey graham. He'll be here. You'll get to hear from all of them directly.

CAMEROTA: All right. So, tons of people taking to social media during last night's debate. And, boy, was there a strong reaction.

CUOMO: There was -- you know, we were expecting that. How big the ratings are going to be. We don't know. But the residents across the country, clear who dominated and why, we'll tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:59] CUOMO: What do you think? Who dominated? Got to look online.

Now, it's all about social media right now. So, we were monitoring it and we got some results.

CAMEROTA: OK. But first, let's go to Michaela in New York for a look at who stole the show online. She's been crunching the numbers.

Hey there.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I do like to crunch numbers, especially for breakfast.

You know, we love a good word cloud around here on NEW DAY. Interesting to see given the tone and tenor in the United States right now, the conversation that popped -- the words that popped, our word cloud shows: war, ISIS, attack -- not surprising given the events of late.

And it directly translates to the topics that were most discussed on Facebook. Again, they co-sponsored the debate last night with CNN -- Islam, ISIS, terrorism.

If you take yourself back a few months to previous debates, we saw both racial discrimination and immigration much higher in what was discussed on Facebook.

How about the candidates themselves? Donald Trump obviously coming out on top. Ted Cruz having a good night as did Jeb Bush. But all three of them being discussed with great frequency online on Facebook.

But if you want to see how that compares to who actually spoke the most, it's interesting, because here's -- let me draw on this -- because this is Trump. Let me try it again. Trump was number one. Cruz number two and Bush was number three and who was discussed the most. So, it doesn't really relate to how long they spoke.

Now, the most talked about moment interestingly, did you catch this last night? Jeb Bush and Donald Trump, some are arguing that Jeb Bush had his best debate by far. Watch what happens. See what you think. I have to touch his nose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, you're not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency. That's not going to happen. And I do have the strength.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: There you go. That's the moment that popped for most people. We'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it plays out when the next polling figures are released.

Alisyn, back to you in Vegas.

CAMEROTA: So fascinating, Mick, thanks so much. That's interesting to hear what the most talked about moment was. I'm not surprised but it was interesting to get it confirmed.

Thank you, Michaela.

All right. So, when it comes down to it, all that matters, of course, is how you as Chris has been saying, the voter, thinks the candidate fared.

CUOMO: So, we asked you. Who do voters think were the big winners, losers and why? We're going to talk to some voters. We'll get the take, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:51:54] CAMEROTA: The Republican presidential hopefuls making their case directly to voters last night in the CNN debate.

So, how did their message resonate with voters? Well, let's ask them this morning.

We have real voters to talk about their real choice and they are here with us. You might recognize them. We've checked in them a couple of times throughout this whole primary process.

There's Derek Uehara, there's Jesus Marquez and Brenda Flank. They're all registered Republicans here in Nevada.

Thanks for getting up early, guys. Great to see you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for having us back.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jesus, before the debate, your man was Jeb Bush.

JESUS MARQUEZ, NEVADA RESIDENT: Yes.

CAMEROTA: You must be happy this morning. How do you think he did?

MARQUEZ: Well, the fact you mentioned him, I must be happy. That speaks by itself.

CUOMO: I know, very leading question.

MARQUEZ: He did great last night.

CAMEROTA: Well, because the buzz is that he exceeded expectations.

MARQUEZ: Well, I think he did. He did very well last night. He showed some passion. On top of the passion, he showed some experience. You know, in the times when national security is at issue, I believe the people are going to be leaning more toward somebody with experience. That can be Jeb Bush.

CUOMO: All right. So, let's get a quick poll. You went in there Bush, you went out Bush.

Let's here from you, Brenda -- tell us how you went in and came out.

BRENDA FLANK, NEVADA RESIDENT: I went in and came out the same way with Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Donald Trump.

Jeremy?

DEREK UEHARA, NEVADA RESIDENT: I went in with Trump, more favorable opinions on Fiorina, Carson and Christie. But still think at the end of the day, for me, it's Trump.

CUOMO: You came out of last night with positive feelings about Fiorina and Carson?

UEHARA: Carson and Christie.

CUOMO: Christie?

UEHARA: Uh-huh.

CUOMO: What impressed you about Carson last night?

I'm asking, obviously, because the take from the insiders is that he took a beating last night.

UEHARA: Well, the concern prior to the debate was nice guy but is he tough enough? Can he handle the issues?

I felt like he made a different case for it. We're looking for something different. He brings a different approach. I think he made the case that it could work. So, I like that.

I think Fiorina, very thoughtful. She -- I think she demonstrated strength. I think she has a lot to offer. And I think Christie had some great interventions in particular, I like how he got in the middle with the two senators, Marco Rubio and Cruz, were going head to head.

CUOMO: That was the big moment. Did that work for you guys? When the governor got in the middle and said, this is what senators do, this is why you don't want a senator?

MARQUEZ: Yes, it's OK to come out and said the tone in peace, but back to what you said about needing something different, you know, a raccoon can be different. It doesn't mean that it's the best option. I believe that Carson and Donald Trump were the big losers of last night because they seemed like they didn't know exactly -- they seemed lost at times.

CAMEROTA: Oh, is that right? At what moment did you think they seemed lost?

MARQUEZ: Well, Donald Trump when he was asked about the nuclear --

CAMEROTA: Triad?

MARQUEZ: Triad, yes.

And also, in terms of Carson, I believe that he didn't show too much passion. He showed like he was a little bit out.

CAMEROTA: Let's play a moment of Ben Carson, because, Brenda, then I want to ask you, because originally Carson was your favorite candidate.

FLANK: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So, let's play a moment when Ben Carson talks about oxygen masks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No one is ever better off with dictators.

[06:55:01] But there comes a time, when you're on airplane, they always say, in case of an emergency, oxygen masks will drop down. Put yours on first and then administer help to your neighbor. We need oxygen right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Brenda, what did you think about Ben Carson and why hasn't he become your favorite again?

FLANK: Well, I think part of Dr. Ben's challenges that he has, it has to do with his position on immigration and for me, that is number one. There are things with our immigration program to date that not necessarily needs to be fixed. I think that if we follow the laws that are currently on the books, that we'd be in a lot better position.

CAMEROTA: You think that's Donald Trump's position?

FLANK: Yes. Donald Trump wants to follow the law. He also disagrees with the birth right citizenship. That is very big for me. Now, we have people up there on the stage --

CUOMO: Cruz owns those two positions as well. Why isn't he resonating as much?

FLANK: He does.

CUOMO: Oh, good.

FLANK: He's my number two guy.

CUOMO: So, now, so he came --

FLANK: Yes, that's my ticket.

CUOMO: OK.

FLANK: But the thing we're looking at here is people that are on that stage, that have contributed to the problems that we have. We have these professional politicians that know everything. Look at the mess our country is in.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

FLANK: That's why so-called outsiders are resonating.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Jesus.

MARQUEZ: Well, she says that Trump wants to follow the law. But what about the Geneva law when he speaks about killing the families of terrorists or when he says that we have to not allow any Muslims into the country? I mean, what part of following the law is that?

FLANK: What's the problem with that?

CAMEROTA: Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUEZ: There's a lot of problems.

CAMEROTA: What people are saying online is that was a substantive debate. That it was perhaps the best debate.

Did you get all of your questions answered that you wanted?

UEHARA: You know, I think at the end of the day, we are looking for someone who can make decisions. We can talk policy all we want.

FLANK: I agree with you.

UEHARA: Look at the senators going back and forth, they created this, they're part of the system.

FLANK: They are part of the problem.

UEHARA: So, if we're looking for something different, that's not it.

CUOMO: Did one person win last night?

FLANK: I think so.

CUOMO: Is one person better than all of those? For you it's Trump.

FLANK: But he's still my pick. But I think Ted Cruz won the debate.

CUOMO: You think Ted Cruz was the best on the debate.

FLANK: Yes.

CUOMO: Do you have one?

UEHARA: I don't know that anyone stuck out in that dominant a fashion. So, you know, for me, Trump was there. It's up to someone else to take him down. I don't think anyone took him down.

MARQUEZ: I believe last night was the night of Bush and maybe Christie. I believe the big losers are Carson and Trump. And Ted Cruz and Rubio, they -- you know, they were fighting among each other. Like Christie is saying, you know, sometimes it comes to the point that what they do as senators doesn't really matter much, you know?

CAMEROTA: All right, guys. We want to talk to you about issues. We'll do that in our 8:00 hour. Thanks so much for being here.

Get some coffee, get some breakfast. We'll see you shortly.

FLANK: OK.

CAMEROTA: All right.

CUOMO: We've got a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: Donald, you're not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: With Jeb's attitude we will never be great again. That I can tell you.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIATE: Marco knows what he's saying isn't true.

TRUMP: He has a wonderful temperament. He's just fine. Don't worry about it.

CARSON: I don't want to get in between them. Let them fight.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted, you support legalizing people who are in this country illegally?

BUSH: Not a factor.

TRUM: Am I talking or are you talking, Jeb?

BUSH: I'm talking right now.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, we'd shoot down the planes of Russian pilots.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think if you're in favor of World War III, you have your candidate.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIATE: If you want something done, ask a woman.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The world wants us to function from strength, believe it or not.

BUSH: This is a tough business to run for president.

TRUMP: You're a tough guy, Jeb.

BUSH: You're never going to be president of the United States by insulting your way to the presidency.

TRUMP: I'm at 42, and you're at 3. So, so far, I'm doing better.

BUSH: Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, December 16th. Michaela is in New York with other headlines. Chris and I are here at the Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas.

The Republican race -- you had a long night last night, my friend. But you got some great tidbits out of Donald Trump. We'll talk about that.

So, the race begins anew today, following last night's fierce CNN debate. There were nine contenders that took the main stage but only two heated rivalries are dominating the headlines this morning. That is Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. They were duking it out over immigration and NSA and other topics.

And then, Jeb Bush trying to revive his campaign, lashing out at Donald Trump. Many say he was successful.

CUOMO: We built up big expectations and they were delivered upon. The race is going to be different today as a result of what happened last night. You saw a different Donald Trump last night. You saw Ted Cruz in a way that you hadn't seen him before.

So, who really resonated? Who really made the most of the moment and what are we going to see reflected in the polls?