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Trump on Jeb Bush: 'I Think He's Scared'; Judge Declares Mistrial in Freddie Gray Case; Interview with Rep. Elijah Cummings; President Getting Terror Briefing Before San Bernardino Trip; Friend of San Bernardino Terrorist to Be Charged. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 17, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIMMEL: Do you think Jeb Bush is scared of you or just scared in general?

TRUMP: I think he's scared.

[07:00:08] MURRAY: The frontrunner continuing to call Bush low- energy and too nice to be tough.

KIMMEL: Do you think he wants to run for president?

TRUMP: No. He was a happy warrior, but he's never been a happy warrior.

KIMMEL: Do you think he would kill baby Hitler?

TRUMP: No, he's too nice.

MURRAY: Just hours earlier on the campaign trail in Arizona, Trump was decidedly unfriendly.

TRUMP: Rand Paul, who doesn't have a chance. I mean, what's he doing? By the way, what is Rand Paul doing?

I don't care anymore. We have to get the right people. I don't care. I don't care anymore. We can't have a continuation of this stupidity, of this incompetence. We can't do it. We want do that when we have Caroline Kennedy negotiating trade pacts with Japan.

MURRAY: This as Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz continue battling it out.

RUBIO: And everyone on that stage talks tough.

MURRAY: After going head to head in Tuesday night's debate, the two first-term senators defending their tough talk.

CRUZ: If someone launches attacks, and if the attacks are false, and they're knowingly false, then I'm going to tell the truth.

MURRAY: While Rubio retrains his fire on the Democrats.

RUBIO: We had a debate last night that was actually substantive. It got into the guts of some of these issues. And there are some differences between the candidates. Look, I like everybody that's running for president on the Republican

side. I really do. None of them is a socialist. None of them are being investigated by the FBI.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, we are used to seeing Donald Trump lob attacks left and right. Really, I think the more interesting fight that we're seeing emerge is this one between Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Both of those guys will be back on the campaign trail today. Rubio will be in Iowa. Ted Cruz in Minnesota. So we will see if that fight continues -- Chris, Alisyn.

CUOMO: You're very busy, Sara. Yet I wish that you would stay with us, because we want to continue this conversation. And let's bring in Jackie Kucinich, senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast" to discuss.

Jackie, tell me what you make of the suggestion when Jimmy Kimmel looks at Donald Trump and says, "Do you think Jeb Bush would kill baby Hitler?"

And Trump then says, "No, he's too nice."

CAMEROTA: What's happening?

CUOMO: Yes.

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": You know, I think it's very clear that Donald Trump and Jeb Bush just don't like each other at this point. And it seems like Donald Trump has shifted -- shifted attacks on Jeb Bush.

At first, he was low energy, and he's still saying that. But he's --- now he's sort of being patronizing. He's saying, you know, he's too nice for this sort of thing. And it's on the heels of that debate performance where Jeb Bush really seemed to get under Donald Trump's skin.

So, you know, we'll have to see what happens and if Jeb Bush -- how long Jeb Bush can hold on with these poll numbers so low and if they rise. But, you know, at its very base, these are two men that just plain don't like each other.

CUOMO: Let me ask you a question, Alisyn. You are an excellent read of people. This was our first exposure to Jeb Bush as candidate on the show. You were sitting right next to him. When he was talking about what he likes, what he doesn't like, why he's doing this, what was the read?

CAMEROTA: Well, I thought that he was really introspective about that. You know, everybody wondered why, Sara, he had had a lackluster debate performance, and he told us very candidly, "I don't like the performance of the campaign. I don't like having to, you know, come up with quips. I don't like having to have zingers. I don't like having to think about that in my performance. But I now accept that you have to do that in this campaign." And that's why we saw him use some of those.

And I thought that, clearly, he had sort of reconciled what it's going to take with Donald Trump in the race. But Sara, let me ask youabout what Jackie just said. In terms of the poll numbers, obviously, they're not out yet since the debate this week. But will Jeb Bush see a bump after this performance?

MURRAY: I think it's really tough to say that, just because people already know Jeb Bush. A lot of people have already decided how they feel about him. They've seen him in other debates. They're familiar with his family. A lot of people, frankly, in Iowa have seen him campaigning. He has a very robust campaign schedule.

So it's really tough to see if just one debate could move his numbers. You know, it's hard to argue with that being anything other than a strong debate performance. It certainly was his strongest. He certainly did seem to get under Donald Trump's skin. But you risk at this point that people's notions of you and your last name as Bush are already baked in.

That said, you know, we got some surprises in 2012. That late movement by Rick Santorum so anything is possible. I just think it's harder when you are such unknown commodity.

CUOMO: Jackie Kucinich, Sara is so crusty and old when it comes to this. Such a built-in cynic. We haven't even had a vote yet. Politics is all about the new me.

Look at Chris Christie, going from where they thought he was, you know, reconciled to irrelevance back on the main stage, driving part of the debate. Rubio from the water grab now in a battle with Ted Cruz. People can change their fates, can they not, and if so, what does Bush need to do?

KUCINICH: You know, when it comes to Christie, he was really interesting. It's sort of like we were seeing the pre-Bridgegate Christie the other night. His kind of bombastic going after the president, really being that, you know, outgoing New Jersey governor that we remember.

[07:05:11] In terms of Jeb Bush, Sara is absolutely right in that, you know, it might be baked in at this point.

In terms of Rubio, one of the most interesting things, I think, about his debate performance was that it sort of was like a magic guy. Like, people saw a different thing. When you look at "The Des Moines Register," I think it said something like "Rubio shines." I mean, they were really receptive to what Rubio said. And then other places, you read he really didn't do very well.

So, you know, his battle with Ted Cruz, the -- these two men seem to know there isn't enough room in this race for the both of them from these two -- for these two freshman senators. And, you know, I cannot imagine that these two aren't going to battle it out through these primary states as long as, you know, either one holds on. CAMEROTA: Sara, it was interesting. Once again the pundits got it

wrong, and the predictions for the debate night were that Trump and Cruz would go after each other, because there had been this, like, simmering tension beforehand; and Cruz had said some things behind closed doors. But that's not what happened. You know, alliances shifted, and tensions shifted and in fact it does seem that now the Ted Cruz/Marco Rubio squabble is the one that is getting the momentum going forward.

MURRAY: Yes. This actually did not come as a huge surprise to me. Because yes, we did see sharper elbows leading up to the debate between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.

But if you are Donald Trump, and you are walking onto that debate stage, you know that you don't need to have a moment on the debate stage. You have moments every day. He's all over television all the time going after his rivals, saying controversial things that we cover extensively.

You know, if you are the frontrunner, your job on that debate stage is to not commit any unforced errors and to try not to take too much incoming fire. It's basically to survive. And Donald Trump has realized that. And he just kind of backs down and waits.

If you're Ted Cruz, the last thing you want to do is be in a huge fight with Donald Trump when you're just weeks ahead of Iowa. Cruz is on the rise right now. We have seen that if Donald Trump really starts to go after one of his rivals in the past, that does not bode well for whoever Donald Trump is attacking.

CUOMO: Question. Do you think this was the last time we see an undercard debate? This is decided largely by the party, by the way. Will the RNC, do you think, force a winnowing? Do you think -- Jackie, I'll direct it to you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

CUOMO: But anybody's free to reply. I could see that Alisyn was looking at me somewhat blankly.

Do you believe that this is the last time we see an undercard? Do you believe that there will be a forced winnowing before the votes?

KUCINICH: You know, I thought the undercard debate was going to go away way before this and was totally wrong. But you'd think, going into the new year, some of these undercard candidates have had their moment, and they haven't been able to get onto the main stage. You haven't seen Governor Huckabee, for example, be able to get back on the main stage. So you have to think that its days are numbered.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but Sara, this -- this race will miss Lindsey Graham. If that undercard thing goes away, I mean, he's the star of the undercard. And he, you know, always delivers passion and zingers, and it would be a shame for the undercard to go away.

MURRAY: Well, I think that's totally right. The race would miss Lindsey Graham. We would miss talking about what Lindsey Graham says in the undercard debates.

But you know, when you look at the people who are in the undercard debates, you're looking at two guys who had previously won Iowa. You're looking at the sitting senator from South Carolina. These are a lot of states that have not voted yet. And I think that there is -- there is value to having this undercard debate, to having these discussions, at least until we get through Iowa.

I think there -- you know, if you are a Rick Santorum, if you are a Mike Huckabee, you're still holding out hope that maybe Ted Cruz will implode at the last minute and voters who liked you in previous cycles will turn to you at the last minute as a safe option. And so maybe that's a reason to keep the undercard going.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and you know, if ratings are any indication of what people are interested in, and they are, the undercard debate got great ratings. People wanted to hear from them.

CUOMO: Reince Priebus said exactly that. The head of the RNC said people are watching it. That is a measure of its usefulness.

CAMEROTA: There you go. Sara, Jackie, thank you.

KUCINICH: Great. Thanks.

MURRAY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. Protests are erupting on the streets of Baltimore after a mistrial was declared in the trial of Officer William Porter. Porter is one of the six officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray. The judge will meet with both sides this morning to discuss a new trial date.

Jean Casarez joins us from Baltimore with more for us -- Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, a new trial date, a retrial. But the big question is when, because five other police officers already have their dates established for when they will appear in court. When this mistrial was declared yesterday by the judge, people had already started to come to the courthouse and many in this community were very unhappy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!

CASAREZ (voice-over): Protesters voiced objection over the mistrial in the death of Freddie Gray. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will fight for Freddie Gray. All night, all

day!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will fight for Freddie Gray. All night, all day!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will fight for Freddie Gray. All night, all day!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are calm. You should be calm, too.

CASAREZ: Officer William Porter could be facing the possibility of a second trial after a jury of seven blacks and five whites failed to reach a unanimous decision on any of the charges against him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are hopeful that Ms. Mosby will retry Officer Porter as soon as possible and that his next jury will reach a verdict.

CASAREZ: Porter is the first of six officers facing charges in the case that brought the city to a standstill last spring. Baltimore erupted in days of unrest back in April after Gray was loaded into the back of a police van and later died from a spinal cord injury.

Prosecutors argue that, even though Porter did not make the arrest or drive the van, he failed to secure Gray's seatbelt and call a medic quickly enough. He faces charges of involuntary manslaughter, second- degree assault, and reckless endangerment.

Baltimore prosecutor Marilyn Mosby's decision to try the officers was met with sharp criticism, some saying the charges were too strong and hard to prove.

Frustration outside the courthouse for what this could mean for the other officers involved.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm terrified. Are we going to have five more mistrials?

CASAREZ: In a city already on edge.

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE: They also want to be very, very clear about any potential disturbances in our city. We are prepared to respond.

CASAREZ: But last night Gray's family attorney was hopeful.

WILLIAM MURPHY JR., GRAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: In 70 percent of the trials that are brought again on the same evidence, the prosecution wins.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: And we understand the attorneys in this case will meet in the chambers of Judge Barry Williams to discuss the date of a potential retrial. But Alisyn, the reason this trial happened so quickly is the

defendant, William Porter, exercised his right to a speedy trial. Now that this whole community knows there's been a mistrial, the defense may ask for a continuance, and the judge will have to decide if that is worthy or not.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely, Jean. Interesting to see what will happen next in this case.

Meanwhile, a Chicago police officer formally indicted in the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald. The grand jury returning an indictment on six murder charges and a single count of official misconduct against Officer Jason Van Dyke. He is due back in court Friday.

Meanwhile, Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel meets today with Justice Department officials launching a civil rights investigation into the city's police department.

CUOMO: President Obama getting a pre-Christmas briefing from his counterterrorism team today. Tomorrow the president heads to San Bernardino to meet with families of the terror attack victims. We have CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns live at the White House this morning.

What do we know about this, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

This is another attempt by the administration to try to reinforce the notion that it is actively engaged on the issue of terrorism. We've had a whole series of events this week, and all of this continues.

The president taking a rare visit to the National Counterterrorism Center to sit down and talk with officials there. Earlier this week the president went to the Pentagon to meet with his national security advisers.

Of course, all of this is in advance of the holidays, as well, in advance of the president's long holiday vacation to Hawaii.

We know also the president going to San Bernardino, California, to meet with the families of the victims in the terrorist attacks there so why all of this focus is clear. Americans are very nervous about terrorism right now. The latest "Washington Post"/ABC poll indicating 77 percent of respondents are less confident about the ability of the government to prevent a lone-wolf attack. Also less confident about the ability to stop a large-scale attack.

Some of the most important work by the administration not going on where the president is today. That would be the United Nations, where the treasury secretary is sitting down with finance ministers of a number of Security Council countries to talk about cutting off the flow of money to ISIS.

Michaela, back to you. PEREIRA: All right, Joe. We'll be watching this with you. Thank you

so much.

Congress, meanwhile, begins voting today on a $1.1 trillion spending plan and a $629 billion tax-cut package. Democrats are getting their way on the spending plan. It's free of most of those policy writers Republicans wanted, blocking President Obama on immigration, global warming and gun control. In exchange, Republicans get an extension on a tax credit favored by corporations, as well as a two-year delay on new Obamacare taxes.

CUOMO: A plan to resume commercial flights between the United States and Cuba is getting closer to takeoff. Officials close to the negotiation say a formal announcement could happen at any moment. Regular flights would be a major economic boost for Cuba. Thousands of Americans have visited the island on so-called charter flights since U.S. relations with Cuba thawed this past summer after a 54-year freeze.

CAMEROTA: An arrest warrant out now for Ethan Couch. That's the wealthy Texas teenager who used the infamous "affluenza" defense in 2013 after he killed four people in a drunk-driving crash. Couch's probation officer unable to reach him this week; also, his mother is missing. Law enforcement fear that they have fled the country. Their disappearance happening after the discovery of this video on social media, which seems to show Couch at a party with alcohol.

PEREIRA: Boy, that story and the diagnosis angered so many people. He killed people. And...

CAMEROTA: Claimed that he was too rich and privileged...

PEREIRA: ... to know any better and to act any better. So it would be interesting to see where they've gone if they can find them.

CUOMO: Well, and what does it wind up being? This is exactly why people didn't want this to be constructed the way it was in the beginning. They thought he was getting a pass. They thought the remorse wasn't real. They thought this was, you know, a prescription of justice that would never be applied.

PEREIRA: The parents somehow coddled them.

CUOMO: And then this happens. And it's going to really reintroduce all of the same concerns.

PEREIRA: We'll see what happens.

CUOMO: We will stay on it.

Now, we'll take a quick break. We have breaking news for you on the San Bernardino shooting. We're going to give it to you.

But also, the protests in Baltimore after this mistrial of one officer, the first of six that is planned there because of the death of Freddie Gray. One man knows this situation and this community better than almost anyone else. He is Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings. What does this mistrial mean? He joins us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:22] PEREIRA: All right. We have breaking news out of California concerning the friend of one of the San Bernardino terrorists. Officials say Enrique Marquez, who bought the two military-style rifles used in that terror attack that killed 14 people, news affecting that person. Justice reporter Evan Perez joins us now with the details.

We learned that he was kind of in their sights. Have they made an arrest?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know he's going to get charged today. I'm not sure he is in custody just yet, Michaela.

He is the -- the former friend and the former neighbor of -- of Syed Farook who brought these two AR-15 rifles in 2011 and 2012. He said he brought them for Farook and -- as a way for Farook to avoid getting any scrutiny from the police.

And so he's been doing these interviews with the FBI for just over a week now. This is after he had checked himself into a mental institution right after the San Bernardino attacks. We know that he's provided a lot -- a great deal of information to investigators. And they were simply waiting to see how long they could get information from him before they decided to arrest him. All along they've known that they were going to charge him.

CUOMO: Well, that was the presumption. Right? This was confusing. If this guy bought the guns and they seemed to be so implicated, at least in the understanding, why did it take so long? But explain how investigators have been playing this guy. He waived his Miranda rights early on.

PEREZ: He did.

CUOMO: What did that give investigators that they would not have once they went down the traditional process?

PEREZ: Well, he provided a great deal of information, including this idea that he and Farook plotted a 2012 attack. This is something that they decided that they weren't going to carry out in the end. They didn't carry it out.

And it's partly, it appears, because they were spooked by another set of unrelated arrests in Riverside, California, right next door to San Bernardino.

He also told the investigators that he and Farook practiced building pipe bombs. And, in fact, he boasted to the FBI that, if he had built these pipe bombs that were found in San Bernardino, that they would have gone off.

So there's plenty of information he's gotten. The interesting thing that they've been dealing with the FBI, frankly, is how much of this to believe. This guy has been talking so much. You often wondered what of this is fiction and what of this is real? And so that's part of what the investigation has been focused on.

CUOMO: Now, Evan, you've been ahead of this the whole way. I was asking you these questions when we were first in San Bernardino, why aren't they hooking this guy? And Evan found out early on he waived his Miranda rights. They got so much more information out of this guy than they would once he lawyered up and they went down the traditional process.

PEREZ: That's exactly right. And keep in mind, I mean, the guns that he bought, the rifles he bought were legal when he bought them, but the fact that he bought them for someone else under California law automatically became a violation.

CUOMO: And raises a lot of issues. Absolutely. Evan, thank you so much for keeping this in front of us.

All right. Also, we have news out of Baltimore. The protesters are hitting the streets following the mistrial of one of the officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray. So what happens next? Can this fractured community stay together?

We have Democratic Congressman Elijah Cummings. His district includes Baltimore.

Sorry to have to wish it on this occasion, but early Christmas wishes to you, Congressman. What do you say to your constituents who are angry and say this is not justice?

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: Well, I would say to them they asked for justice, and in many instances, probably in 99 percent of the cases where African-American men and boys are injured or killed in the custody of police, you never have any trial whatsoever.

And what I would say to them is that the wheels of justice did begin to turn here in Baltimore and that 12 people, African-American and white, very diverse men and women chosen from our voters list, sat down and tried to make a decision, but they could not come to a unanimous verdict.

But clearly, Chris, there are people that sat on that jury that felt that Officer Porter was guilty, and then there were others that felt that he wasn't. And so basically, we go pretty much to square one.

CUOMO: But what is the feeling? The feeling is dissatisfaction. Yes, you can say this is how the process works, and we had a process. But people had presumed this was a slam-dunk case. Did they have false expectations going in? And what is the correct assessment that people should have, in your estimation?

CUMMINGS: I don't -- I don't agree with you there. I don't think people necessarily thought it was a slam-dunk case. Because you've got to remember that a lot of people in Baltimore are very familiar with the jury process and particularly the criminal trial process; and so many are relatives and friends have gone through that process. So they knew that, when you present something to a jury, you might have almost any type of outcome.

Now there are many who, of course, were hoping for a guilty verdict, but fact is, is that they also know that Officer Porter deserved a fair trial. And so then that's the key.

[07:25:22] I have said to my constituents over and over again that our criminal justice system may not be fast, but hopefully, it is fair. And so you know, we've got to be -- we cannot have the convenience of expediency, but we've got to have a conviction with regard to fairness and thoroughness. And I think that's what's happening here.

CUOMO: Well, Congressman, let's touch on this point one step farther. Because I watched you in the streets of Baltimore talk reason to people who were very angry, and angry with good reason. They are looking at this, and we're seeing it all over social media. You're seeing it in your streets in Baltimore, as a miscarriage of justice. The judge didn't get it right. The instructions weren't right. The jury was rigged. This was rigged.

What do you say to people to give them confidence in this situation?

CUMMINGS: I tell them that I -- I anticipate that this morning the prosecutor will be meeting with the defense counsel and the judge, and they will be discussing retrying Mr. Porter, Officer Porter. And that they have to -- they ask for justice again.

And the justice wheels are rolling. But sometimes it's slow. And they have got to follow it and have got to understand that, when you ask for justice, it's not just based on a verdict or the decision that you want. It is a process that is fair. And that's what we are looking at.

And I've got to tell you. One thing that you didn't talk about too much is that we had a relatively calm evening yesterday. And I give a lot of credit to the mayor, our clergy here, our young people who got out and said, "We want peace in our city." And I think it presented a very good image of Baltimore.

And now we go forward. But again, this is in the middle -- there's a trial, I'm sure, that's going to take place again with Mr. Porter. We've got five other trials coming up.

But for this moment, I think Baltimorians are waiting to see exactly what happens and, again, learning more and more about the criminal justice process. And I'll tell you, as leaders, I think it's incumbent upon us to make sure people understand that process and understand that nothing is at an end. And hopefully by going through this process, Baltimore will have a better police department, have better relationships with the community and the police, and will be a better city.

CUOMO: Last question. Look, there's no question that I'm very happy to be having this conversation with you from New York and not standing on the streets of Baltimore with you because of something that happened that was ugly and unfortunate down there. Everybody will agree on that. But you're not one verdict away from change in Baltimore. Since we

were together down there, since the last rash of outrage, things have gotten worse in Baltimore, not better.

CUMMINGS: Yes.

CUOMO: You cannot find a metric that shows any kind of progress there.

So what are, frankly, you, other leaders, failing to get done there still that we need to see, Congressman Cummings?

CUMMINGS: Well, I think it's an ongoing process. Part of our problem is, in the past, we did not have the kind of community policing that we now have. We've got now a better relationship with police. It's going to take a while. But I think that we are on the path to getting there.

You know, when you talk about failures, let me tell you something. When you have young men who have no jobs and are blocked out of a system of getting a job and doing for themselves and feel a sense of hopelessness, you're going to have problems.

But we are -- we created an organization called One Baltimore where we're helping people get jobs, get trained; dealing with our educational system and the systemic problems that we have.

But, you know, what I'm saying to you is that we're not a perfect city, but we are pursuing perfection; and we will get there. I don't have a negative view of our city. I have a very positive view.

CUOMO: Congressman Cummings, appreciate it. We'll stay on this story. You know that. And again, early Christmas wishes to you and the family.

CUMMINGS: Same to you.

CUOMO: Absolutely.

You know the situation down in Baltimore. This is the latest wrinkle. What are your thoughts? Please tweet us, @NewDay, or post your comment on Facebook.com/NewDay -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. Chris, you know how Donald Trump loves to slam the media. Yet he can't really seem to stop courting the media. What is behind this love/hate relationship with the press? Tina Brown has some ideas. We'll get her take next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)