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ISIS Threat Continues to Grow and Evolve; Racial Tensions in 2015; Tips for Holiday Returns. Aired 8:30-9:00a ET

Aired December 25, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:05] JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: So very much what we saw today, Boris, was a peace Pope, trying to use the visibility afforded by one of the holiest days on the Christian calendar to raise his voice in defense of peace and human dignity around the world. And that was the story from around here today, Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: A heartfelt message from Pope Francis.

John Allen from Rome, thank you.

There have been three new attacks by Palestinians on Israelis in the past 24 hours. Official say a man stabbed two soldiers in the West Bank. Another Palestinian with a screwdriver tried to stab Israeli soldiers at a check point. And a third attacker tried to ram soldiers with a car. All of the attackers were shot and killed. This marks only the latest in a wave of nearly daily attacks by Palestinians dating back to October.

In Nigeria, overnight, the explosion of an industrial gas tank killed dozens of people who were there refilling their cooking gas tanks. Many more were injured. Witnesses say a truck caught fire while offloading the gas, engulfing a factory and surrounding buildings. The president of Nigeria released a statement expressing regret over the accident and offering condolences to the victims and their families.

The Taliban denying reports from Russia this morning that the two will put aside their issues to trade intelligence on ISIS. Russia's foreign ministry confirmed this unlikely partnership. Vladimir Putin has been trying to find ways to stop the growth of ISIS in Afghanistan amid concerns more were joining from Russia Caucasus region and the former Soviet Republics.

That's a look at your headlines this Christmas morning. Merry Christmas.

Back to you, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: From the bombing of the Russian passenger plane to the coordinated terror attacks in Paris, and most recently the ISIS-inspired terror attack in San Bernardino, the threat from ISIS continues to grow and evolve. Let's talk about it. And joining us to discuss is Bobby Ghosh. He's our CNN global affairs analyst and managing editor of "Quartz."

Merry Christmas, Bobby. Great to have you here with us.

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So there was that sickening litany of attacks that ISIS has been behind or at least inspired, and yet we also heard that there were moments that seemed to be victories against ISIS.

So at the end of 2015, what is the status of the strength of ISIS?

GHOSH: Well, in terms of actual territory that ISIS controls at the end of 2016 they might have scooch less than they did at the start of...

CAMEROTA: 2015.

GHOSH: I beg your pardon -- 2015. They lost Tikrit, which is a big city. Saddam Hussein's hometown. An important strategic loss for them. The Iraqi forces were able to take back territory. They also lost some territory in Northern Iraq. But when it comes to the idea of ISIS, and let's remind ourselves, ISIS more than anything else is an idea. A terrible idea it might be, but it is an idea.

As an idea, they have actually grown. They have shown that all the way from San Bernardino, California to Paris, France to Sinai in Egypt, to Beirut in Lebanon, they are attracting adherence. People no longer have to travel to Syria or to Iraq in order to join up and commit mayhem there. They are able to commit mayhem around the world. So they are -- if you like, they are off shoring this idea. They are off shoring terrorism in a way that brings it closer to all of us and makes it much more dangerous.

CAMEROTA: And so in that way, you would say they have gotten stronger.

GHOSH: They have absolutely gotten stronger. They've gotten -- their reach is greater than it ever was before. They are long way from when President Obama called them the varsity squad. This is now far in a way the most powerful, most dangerous terrorist organization that has ever existed. They now have al Qaeda way back in the rear view mirror.

CAMEROTA: You know, that is interesting that you bring up al Qaeda because President Obama this year has talked about how al Qaeda has been decimated.

Did al Qaeda just morph into ISIS? Or is this a different group with a different ideology.

GHOSH: Well, this used to be al Qaeda in Iraq, which used to be a franchise operation, if you like, of core al Qaeda. The one of Osama Bin Laden. Yes, they've morph a great deal. A lot of the people who would previously go to fight alongside al Qaeda. A lot of local terrorist groups in different parts of the world, which paid homage to al Qaeda now have transferred their allegiance, their loyalties to ISIS. And perhaps, more importantly, a lot of people who gave money to al Qaeda, a lot of that money now turns up in the pockets of ISIS.

And so they've turn up -- they have taken over that space. Al Qaeda still exists. There's a ramp organization and they don't like each other very much. They disagree on some fundamental things.

CAMEROTA: Such as? I mean, what are their disagreements. Don't they hate western civilization and democracy and freedom? What's their difference are?

GHOSH: Their differences are at the top. Their differences are about what is OK and not OK. Al Qaeda likes to say that they are not in favor of attacking other Muslims. Where as ISIS clearly have no such problems. Far and away the vast majority of people ISIS has killed are fellow Muslims and not just Shiites or such a small minorities, but fellow Sunnis. Al Qaeda doesn't like that or just says so.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: I mean, there were Muslims killed on 9/11. So al Qaeda is not being honest about that.

GHOSH: Yes, absolutely. We're not -- you know, al Qaeda kind of wants to have its cake and eat it, too. It does all this violence in Muslim countries, but likes to present a sort of outward appearance off being holier than ISIS. But this difference is at the leadership level.

When it comes to foot soldiers, they can work together. They can cooperate. We saw that in Paris this year when you had the Coulibaly brothers and you had the guy who attacks the Jewish supermarket. They knew each other. They were two different operations -- one supposedly for al Qaeda, one supposedly inspired by ISIS, but working together.

[08:35:52] CAMEROTA: So very quickly for 2016, do you see more of an international coalition coming together to fight them?

GHOSH: You see absolutely a bigger international coalition. Whether that's automatically a good thing is a little unclear. Right now, you have -- there are so many different military operations taking place simultaneously in Syria and Iraq.

You have Russia, latest entrant; you have Turkey, you have Iraq, you have Iran, you have the United States. All of these guys are fighting -- all of us are fighting there.

We are not really coordinating. And the different people fighting in that area have different agendas, different final goals. There will be more boots on the ground. They're not necessarily American ones and not necessarily for the best. CAMEROTA: Bobby Ghosh, great to get your take at the end of the

year. Thanks so much for being here. As always, we love having you on NEW DAY.

Let's get over to Michaela and Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS a big concern to be sure, but not our only ones. Police relations, race relations. It's really been swirling around in our culture. So we're going to discuss. Have communities and police made progress?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: But first, don't you think we need more music?

CUOMO: Oh yes.

PEREIRA: Let's listen to the young people's chorus of New York City.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:39] CUOMO: Merry Christmas to you. Welcome back to the special Christmas Day edition of NEW DAY.

Tensions between police and communities seemingly not letting up this year. Do they get worse? Anything that shows a chance of improvement. Let's discuss.

Harry Houck, CNN law enforcement analyst, retired NYPD detective and Mark Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator and professor at Morehouse College.

Merry Christmas.

(CROSSTALK)

MARK LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Merry Christmas to all of you, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I know you both got along for Coke, because you fight all the time, but not today.

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Not today.

CUOMO: Let's take a look at this poll that we have here. A CNN Kaiser Family Foundation Poll taken towards the end of the year reveals one in five African-Americans say they were treated unfairly because of their race by the police in the past 30 days, comparison 3 percent of whites saying the same.

Harry, do we have a problem?

HOUCK: I don't think we have a problem. I think a lot of people think they have a problem. And I think a lot of people's hatred for the police, especially best in the rhetoric in this prior year. People are just -- when they are answering questions like that and they maybe bright, might say yes, I'm having a problem with the police.

So I really -- I don't really, you know, go by these types of polls. I don't think they really show any truth in the system.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Well, it's an opinion poll, right? So it shows what people think. And I think if 1/5 of a community feels as if they are being targeted, even if every black person in America is wrong, the fact that 1/5 of them feel that way, and the numbers really haven't gone much differently than in 2000 when we did the same study. And the span has been a measure of the time, but when you look at the fact that it hasn't changed much over 15 years that suggested there's a problem.

If you are trying to police a community where 1/5 of the people feel like they have been targeted over the last 30 days, that's significant. And I would disagree, lastly, with the idea that it's just based on the media data, because, again, before there was a media about "Black Lives Matter," before this stuff happened in Sanford and in Ferguson, we're still having this problem.

CUOMO: It is not new, but boy has the media taken a beating this year. It is very interesting on this kind of social cataclysms that we go through now.

HOUCK: The police --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But see, the police are a player in the dynamic. I'm saying that now. Every time they have a social problem, like the media gets a black eye by both sides. You have those who are pro-cop. And understandably, that should be all of us. You know, pro good policing of a community.

You know, they are upset that media -- they are upset, and when it comes down to why am I bringing that up? Because it comes to your ability to deal with the problem now --

(CROSSTALK)

HOUCK: (INAUDIBLE)

CUOMO: I have no feelings at this point. The idea of -- well, do you want to deal with the problem?

HOUCK: Right.

CUOMO: And even though you say you dismiss this poll, it does seem that this year we got into a different layer of dialogue about these situations. Maybe it's the cameras. Maybe it's something. But do you see that there is more discussion of it in an open way as opposed to just holding tight?

HOUCK: Well, I now like the discussion. I got no problem with the discussion. But I got a problem with a false rhetoric and or at these lies about the police out there. And the assumption is that every time the police is involved in an incident with somebody who's black and a police officer is white, it's automatically a racial issue. That's my problem.

And that's where we got --- write a report, white cop shoots black man. Why don't we say police officer shoots perpetrator. Why do we have to make it a racial issue when it happens even when it is not a racial issue?

CUOMO: What if it is an issue that was racial.

HOUCK: Well, if there is evidence to indicate it is a racial issue, I've got no problem with that. But we have no evidence to indicate, in some of the shootings that we talked about in the past few year that there were racial incidents such as Ferguson, Staten Island, Baltimore. We don't know if there are racial issues, but it's been thrown out there that they are racial issue.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Even if the shooting is justified, can you still have an issue of race involve in the use of force.

HILL: Absolutely. And I wrote a piece for CNN.com on this study. And one of the things I talk about is that, first of all, it is not just white and black, right? Black cops can do this to black people as well. I'm not -- I don't feel safer when a black cop pulls me over necessarily. Sometimes I do, but in general, I don't. Because I think there's a question about how black people are viewed by law enforcement. And for law enforcements, it's not about being white, it's about being blue at that level.

But I also think here that even if a police officer does not intend to be racist. Even if they don't have a racist bone in their body, there are still scripts we have in our minds,, and psychologists bear this out, I know you don't like studies but psychologist bear this out that, you know, that we have ideas about who people are based on their race, based on their gender, based on their age, based on other factors.

And so even if the cop doesn't just like black people, they still may make a different judgement when that black kid is standing up like Tamir Rice than if a white kid were standing there with the same circumstances. And that is why I think race is something we have to constantly think and talk about.

CUOMO: Harry, one thing that surprises me about you when sometimes you are reflexively defensive in these situations.

In my experience growing up with cops like you here in the city, they were the first ones to ask for more community policing. They were always the first one to say, you got to let me get in this community, when I'm not booking somebody, when I'm not making an arrest. I got to work with this community better.

[08:45:11] Whether it was Puerto Ricans or African Americans, the cops wanted to be get in there and be with them, because they saw this problem. That if the only time you see me, I'm coming hard at you, when you are never going to like me or trust me.

HOUCK: That's right. I'm very pro community policing, because when I was a cop in New Jersey before I came to New York, I walked the beat in a black neighborhood where they assassinated a white police officer two years earlier, right? This is 1978.

I went and I walked that beat and I'm six square blocks. I got to know everybody. I got to know the bad guys. People would invite me in their homes for dinner at night. Officer Harry, it's too cold. Come in and have dinner.

Back then, I played ball with the kids on the street. This is what we need. But what happened was is that the money disappeared for that. And police officers are put in police cars now because they can patrol more of an area. It's all about money.

If these politicians are talking about that they want a better police departments, well, let's give police departments more money so that they can put a cop out there and walk in beat and get to know with the people.

CUOMO: Let me finish on this because it's Christmas Day. People will not believe this, but you two are friends, are you not? And you participate in very productive dialogue.

HILL: Absolutely. I haven't invited him over for dinner yet, though.

HOUCK: No.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I heard you can't cook.

HOUCK: We haven't had a chance to go out for drinks yet, because this guy is so busy, you know, we can't --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: I'm busy -- 2016, I'm busy, too. So we'll get there.

CUOMO: Whole year he's busy. You don't even do the whole year on me, Mich. I usually get at least six months lead time or something.

PEREIRA: You know, that's being generous. That is being generous. I'm kidding. There's a lot of love in this room, certainly today.

So, let's talk about this. Christmas morning. Maybe you got a gift you didn't like. What should you do? Should you regift it? Return it? We're going to share some tips to minimize the holiday headaches.

What do I get in here, anyway? What's this?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:35] PEREIRA: So you're at the house. You're unwrapping all those gifts, so much joy, so much fun stuff. But for some, Christmas means enjoying brand new gifts, for others, it means it's time to go back to the store with returns. You know what I'm talking.

The big question is, should you regift it? Is that OK?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

PEREIRA: Or do you return it? Here with wisdom for us is our chief business correspondent, Christine Romans. She joins us now.

ROMANS: Get the money, get the money, get the money.

PEREIRA: Really? You do not support regifting?

ROMANS: You can regift if you want. But if you didn't want it, how do you know somebody else is going to want it. Right?

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The owner says you can regift it. That makes it, OK?

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: Now, look, about 38 percent of people are going to return gifts. Quite frankly. That's just the way it is. About a third -- more than a third of people. And it's mostly electronics.

It's toys, video games, but more than anything, it's clothes. So grandma and grandpa, I'm sorry that I'm not going to wear your sweater. Make sure you bring the receipt. That's the important thing.

Some places have very good, very generous return policies. Others, don't. And here is why. Billions of dollars are lost for the retailers in something called wardrobing, where people buy something in November or on Black Friday, they wear it for the holiday season and try to return it.

PEREIRA: You don't do that.

ROMANS: There's even a word for it. And the retailers really look hard to make sure.

CUOMO: How do they know?

PEREIRA: You can see if there's a tag on the dress.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: The tags are gone. There's make up on the color.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE)

PEREIRA: And some of the places, don't they -- they limit the time you can do the returns, don't they, because they want to manager --

ROMANS: Oh yes. And some of the teen retailers have the most strict return policies. And there is one I can think of that has 21- day return policy. So if you want to return something, do it quickly. Don't do it on December 26th. And here's a reason why.

There are a lot of people out there shopping on the 26th. Don't go then. Know the return window is a 21-day. It is longer.

Do you need the receipt or not? Do you need to have the credit card that was purchased with? That's why I always try to give a gift receipt when I give a gift.

Now here's something that will happen when you are going to return your gifts. They're going to try to get you to open a store credit card.

PEREIRA: Yes.

ROMANS: You know, they are really pushing those. Don't do that.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Why?

ROMANS: Don't do that. Well, sometimes it can make you appear financially risky on your credit report if you get a whole bunch of those score cards opened.

Also, if you are prone to overspending, don't open a bunch of extra store cards.

PEREIRA: But what about the sell gift cards? If you don't want them, what is that about?

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: This is really cool.

There are online marketplaces for your unused gift cards, you know that? And some of them, you can get as much as 90 cents on the dollar. You are never going to get a hundred percent. But there are a lot of different sites you can go to to check that out. Some of them are more -- there's some give more money than others. One of my favorite ones is called GiftCardGranny.com. CardPool.com is another one.

I'm not recommending those, I'm just telling you --

CUOMO: It sounds like you are recommending them.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: There's a lot of them out there, if you want to get cash for your -- you know, for your --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: I never thought of that.

ROMANS: If you got lowest card, you never with --

PEREIRA: Right.

ROMANS: So that's one thing you can do.

PEREIRA: You can be a smart and savvy gift returner. I've learn so many things from you today.

ROMANS: But, you know, I don't want to use overspend.

CUOMO: Do you return gifts? Do you regift?

ROMANS: I -- I -- I don't know.

CUOMO: Romans, what was that?

PEREIRA: You're putting her on the spot.

CUOMO: That's a terrible act. Let's try that again.

Do you regift? Do you return gifts?

ROMANS: I have been known to regift something if I knew for example my neighbor really like it and it wasn't something --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: What do you give people? Like savings bonds? Bags of pennies? What do you give people?

ROMANS: I give them a book. A book club.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: But wait, do you tell them you're regifting the gift. Or do you just sort of pass it over.

ROMANS: I do. If I regift something, I say, look, I got this. I can't use it. Would you like it? But that's why --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Every time?

ROMANS: But I don't usually regift. CUOMO: Every time you've regift something, you've told the

person that this is a regift.

CAMEROTA: It sounds like he had some evidence.

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I am Santa.

ROMANS: I'm not guilty. No, the most important think to me about the holidays is people don't hurt themselves by spending too much money. If you need to return something, return it.

PEREIRA: It's OK. Yes.

ROMANS: Don't -- clutter is bad. Too much credit card debt is bad. Now just, you know, just go on a financial diet at the beginning of the year, shall we?

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Love it.

CUOMO: Romans is grabbing back the high ground at the end of the segment. Never answered my question. I just wanted to know.

PEREIRA: Do you regift? Do you regift.

CUOMO: I don't. Nobody gives me anything. Who wants coal?

All right, we got some good, good stuff for you today. You're going to need a really driven, hard-no CEO. But it's what she, this CEO, what she makes of it? That's what makes her the good stuff.

This is seven-year-old Micah Robinson. She just launched her own not- for-profit organization design entirely to deliver blankets to people who need them. Sure, she's the CEO.

It's something she's been passionate about since the age of five. She's an old hat at this. She saw a man on the street during the dead of winter and it had some impact on her. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICAH ROBINSON, 7-YEAR-OLD CEO: I was like wondering how does he keep warm? How can he sleep?

UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: So that's how her blanket drive came about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Even kids get the need. Since then Micah has collected and handed out hundreds of blankets. Just formed the non-profit "Micah's Care Ministry" to keep track of it all. Her parents say they help, but really Mica is all about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Being kind, being caring, showing love. You know, coming from a 7-year-old, it brings a whole new light.

ROBINSON: I like doing this because it helps people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: She may be my new favorite 7-year-old.

CAMEROTA: Me, too. That's so inspirational.

CUOMO: It should be inspirational, right? A 7-year-old does it, why don't you?

All right, we're done here. But Christmas Day is just beginning. Merry Christmas to all of you. It sounds cheesy, but true. We feel that you are a gift to us every day. Thanks for the opportunity.

CAMEROTA: So true. So from all of us here, Merry Christmas to you and yours.

PEREIRA: Make it a safe and happy one. Hug your family members. We're going to hug ours certainly. "Newsroom" begins right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)