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Fugitive "Affluenza" Teen & Mother Captured in Mexico; CNN Poll: Americans Divided on Obama Legacy. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 29, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:03] CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Will his next stop be to prison back in the U.S.? Our legal experts weigh in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We get now to more breaking news, the so- called "affluenza" teen captured in Mexico after weeks on the run. Ethan Couch is his name, picked up by Mexican authorities with his mother. Is American prison the next stop for the duo? Is that where they're going next?

Let's bring in Joey Jackson and Danny Cevallos, both of them CNN legal analysts, and both of them criminal defense attorneys, and both of them very evenly matched, to talk about both of these cases here.

So, I want to ask you guys as defense attorneys, what's the defense for Ethan Couch after doing this? How do you defend what has happened? Because he got 10 years probation, people were upset saying he should have gotten way more.

You first, Joey.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let's start with the obvious, Don. Good morning to you.

The obvious is he's got a bit of a problem. We know that. And the fact is, whenever you run it demonstrates some type of consciousness of guilt, something you should never do.

However, remember this, at the time he was sentenced he was a juvenile. The purpose of the proceedings are -- we know the tenets of the criminal justice system, punishment, deterrent, rehabilitation.

LEMON: Right.

JACKSON: Sixteen years old at the time of the commission of this horrific offense, four people dead. He's scared. Doesn't know what to do. He's still a young guy. He's under the influence of his mom and his parents.

[06:35:00] He still can be rehabilitated, which is the whole essence of the fact that a 16-year-old who's now 18 years old thinking. Therefore, there should be mercy because there's a rehabilitation

element that's still present within him. He's got a long way to go in life. He can be redeemed. He can be an effective member of society if given the opportunity.

LEMON: OK, a lot to unpack here, what he talked about, Danny, because he says, you know, in the commission in trying to get away, it was obvious that he was hiding.

Take a look at the pictures. This is what he looked like when they picked him up in Mexico. Obviously, in the middle, changed his hair color. As you said, did his mom influence him to do this?

What gives in this particular case? There is a lot to unpack.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There is a lot to unpack. But this is not that different from any other probationer who violates his or her probation. Whether you're in the juvenile system or the adult system, one of the last things you want to do as a defendant on probation is go back before that judge that gave you the gift of probation in the first place and show that judge why that judge may have made a mistake.

There's no angrier judge in the criminal justice system than a back judge on probation when you've violated probation, because what that judge can do is either reinstate probation or, more likely, revoke probation. That original probation, being allowed to stay outside under the law in that jurisdiction, ten years probation was the maximum number of years of probation he could have gotten under the law. If he was exceedingly lucky under the circumstances, he will not be so lucky once he goes back before the back judge.

LEMON: Yes, but that was probation. You know, people were saying he should have gotten ten years in jail, if not more. Is this a continuation, though, of miscarriage of justice as many people see? Because as I understand, the judge is retired, the original judge.

JACKSON: Exactly, and that's the bigger problem, Don, because the judge who gave him, as Danny referred to, as the gift of probation, is no longer there. And so, every judge has a wide degree of discretion in terms of what they do and how they handle you.

And, certainly, if there was any opportunity now for a judge, you know, to mete out justice in this case, to reverse what was thought of many that this was just an inappropriate sentence that had no relation to what he actually did, let's think about this -- four people dead, 16 or not. Another in your car --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: Exactly -- who's brain dead and other one injured. So, if ever there was an opportunity for now the judge sitting there with the other judge gone, to say, you know what, we gave you an opportunity the first time, we focused on rehabilitation. You blew it and now you're going to do the full measure of your sentence.

Let's add one last element, Don. He was 16 at the time of the commission of the offense. He's an adult now.

LEMON: He's 18. He'll be 19 in April.

But, still, Danny, you know, when you're 18 or 19, not to excuse what he did, obviously it's horrible. But the question is going to shall how much influence did his mother have over him as an 18-year-old, 17- year-old, 18-year-old, almost turning 19 now? What happens to the mom now?

CEVALLOS: Well, the mother faces all kinds of problems of her own. Number one, in this jurisdiction, when a juvenile's placed on probation, a parent can be made a part of that probation order. So even under a juvenile's probation order, the parent may have obligations. After all, in many cases, the juvenile's living with the parent and the parent must enforce things like curfew and other rules.

The other part, too, is separately as an offense, that parent may have been harboring a fugitive. So, mom is going to have a number of questions to answer in court, whether under the original probation order if she had any obligations or as a new separate criminal offense.

Either way, this is not a good idea to take your son to Mexico to avoid his probation obligation if that's in fact what she did.

LEMON: Yes, a lot of legal experts said when this happened, that we would be seeing him again, once he was sentenced we'd be seeing him again.

JACKSON: Guess what?

LEMON: And sadly --

JACKSON: We're seeing him again.

LEMON: I want to turn to Tamir Rice. Are you surprised there were no indictments handed down?

JACKSON: I don't say that I'm surprised, Don, but I think certainly, the process left a lot to be desired. And the reason I say that is because, you know, as a prosecutor, you have a wide degree of discretion in terms of how you handle the case. You're the judge, the jury, the executioner with the grand jury. And the manner in which this occurred, I was one who felt that, you know, he should have potentially been recuse from the outset and a special prosecutor placed there.

When you are the local prosecutor and you're working closely with the police, relying upon them for your investigations, for your arrests, for the prosecutions and other matters, it's very difficult for you now to sit in judgment of them. And I think that it sort of goes against a notion of trust that we have in the process and the system.

And any prosecutor who wants an indictment and a conviction certainly gets one because you control the flow of information. And if you look at for one second, if you pose this next to Baltimore, where, you know, within weeks, there was a criminal actual complaint against the officers and then an indictment.

[06:40:02] And you look at, for example, South Carolina with Slager who shot, you know, Michael Scott in the back, within months, there was an indictment.

Here, why did it take over a year, first of all, to go before the grand jury? And after that, there's no action. I'm one who says the process --

LEMON: There needs to be more transparency in the process.

When you look at his officer, his record, Danny, he was a trainee. He had other problems at other jobs. Here's what the prosecutor Tim McGinty called the case, "It was a perfect storm of human mistakes." The question is, though, when you look at the officer's record and you look at the whole situation, where do the mistakes stop and the criminality begin?

CEVALLOS: The Supreme Court addressed that very issue. And, unfortunately, the law remains somewhat unsettled.

If you look at the facts of this case, this is an officer who, yes, was sitting in the passenger's seat. But his brother officer was the one driving the car that brought him so close to Tamir Rice in the first place.

And that I think is part of why McGinty is calling this an unfortunate set of circumstances, because the shooting officer was not the one that brought him within seven feet of Tamir Rice.

But even all of that aside, you know, I have to dissent respectfully with Joey Jackson when he says people are demanding a more transparent process.

This is the grand jury system. It was never designed to be transparent. If we don't like that as a citizenry, then we need to change it. But if we are disappointed in the grand jury process because it's not transparent, it was never designed to be.

JACKSON: We're not talking --

CEVALLOS: And as to whether or not we're surprised --

JACKSON: Danny.

CEVALLOS: Joey?

JACKSON: We're talking about the process of McGinty bringing the matter before the grand jury.

CEVALLOS: Agreed.

JACKSON: The fact is that the local prosecutor should divorce himself from that so that the citizens know that the presentation of the information is fair. That the flow of information is what the grand jury needs to see, needs to evaluate. When you have a local prosecutor who controls -- as a former prosecutor, I can tell you, the grand jury would do what I would want it to do.

So, it's not the grand jury process I'm assailing.

CEVALLOS: Exactly.

JACKSON: It's the fact that the local prosecutor presented the information to the grand jury when an outside entity should have done that to allow the company to have trust and faith and respect in the outcome.

LEMON: And you two gentlemen can pick this up later.

CEVALLOS: And, Joey --

LEMON: Danny is going to be here in New York. He'll be on CNN. We'll be discussing that.

JACKSON: Look forward to it.

LEMON: Sorry, Danny, we'll get you back in on CNN. You guys can discuss. Thank you very much.

I want to tell our viewers, coming up in our 8:00 hour, we're going to talk for the family of Tamir Rice about the grand jury decision.

Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Don.

Americans seem to agree that the country has changed under President Obama. But is it for the better or for worse? We'll take a closer look at a brand new CNN poll, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:46:34] ROMANS: Here it is, the first significant winter storm of the season slamming the region right now. You are looking at live pictures of commuters on I-95 outside of Boston where the snow in freezing will make for a messy morning commute. There have been, wow, 43 weather related deaths in the past week, sadly. The storm system spawned tornadoes in Texas, flooding in Missouri, and blizzard conditions New Mexico.

PEREIRA: Brand new CNN/ORC poll just released this hour shows that Americans are divided over President Obama's legacy, but not on their anger with Washington. Seventy-five percent say they're not satisfied with the way that the nation is being governed. Just 24 percent approve.

As for whether the Obama presidency has brought about significant change, 37 percent say yes for the better, 37 percent say yes for the worse. We'll crunch those numbers ahead on the show.

LEMON: What does it all mean? What does it mean?

Meantime, a federal judge is allowing a Planned Parenthood clinic in Columbia, Missouri, to keep its abortion license. But the clinic cannot perform any abortions until it gets a doctor on staff with hospital privileges as required by state law. The previous doctor's privileges were discontinued December 1st. And right now, St. Louis has the only legal abortion clinic in Missouri.

PEREIRA: Well, be careful on that new hoverboard. Consumer safety officials say the popular gift, it has sent at least 70 people to the emergency room in the last few days, Don Lemon.

LEMON: Wow.

PEREIRA: Mostly because they fell off or they slammed into something. Many of the victims have been parents, not children. Lower center of gravity, you know?

LEMON: Yes.

PEREIRA: Amazon stopped sell something hoverboards this month because of concerns they can catch fire. Some 20 incidents or more have been reported.

That's the problem, right? We still think we have the balance we had when we were a kid.

ROMANS: But the fire thing is really interesting. The airlines will not allow them on the planes. You can't take them with you. You can't put them in a carry-on. They don't want them on an airplane.

LEMON: That's why my nephew got a new. I given mine, at the last minute, they're like, no, you can't take them on a plane. I'm like --

PEREIRA: Yes, you were riding on his. Give the child back his toy, Uncle Don.

LEMON: I was. You know, when you get to be our age, the hips are fragile and bones don't --

PEREIRA: Yes, they are. Speak for yourself.

LEMON: Yes.

How do Americans really feel? Michaela was just talking about this about President Barack Obama and the job he's done heading into the final year in office. The surprising takeaways from a brand new CNN poll. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:52:21] PEREIRA: President Obama's legacy started to take shape with just a year remaining in his second term now. In a brand new CNN poll, Americans are weighing in on just how the president is handling key issues -- the economy, guns, climate change, so much more. So how does he fare?

LEMON: I can't believe it's been so long. We're talking about legacy. Seem like we were just covering him being elected. So, here this morning, senior politics editor of "The Daily Beast" is

Jackie Kucinich and CNN political commentator and political anchor at Time Warner Cable News, Mr. Errol Louis.

PEREIRA: It makes you wonder where he's been for the last eight years.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Asleep at this time of the morning.

Jackie, to you first, the public is evenly divided, 37 percent on whether President Obama, yes, has brought positive or negative change to the country. It splits along party line, obviously. So, what is his legacy and how will this impact the 2016 election?

JACKIE KUCINICH, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, this -- it continues to be a very partisan time in American politics. How his legacy will impact the 2016 election is clear when it comes to Hillary Clinton. If Hillary Clinton starts to do well with the general population, that -- I mean, you can't discount the fact that President Obama is helping her get there.

But not only Hillary Clinton. When you look down ballot, the most important issue still among Americans, according to Gallup, is in the economy. And if their president is getting high marks in the economy, it's going to help things like Senate races. That's another thing the Democrats have a high priority going into 2016 on.

PEREIRA: Well, it's interesting, Errol, because if you also look at the dissatisfaction number of how the country is being governed, 75 percent of Americans are unhappy and dissatisfied with the governing of the nation. But that can't be solely placed on the president's lap. He also has to work with his congressional partners.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, try explaining that to an angry voter, right?

LEMON: Right.

LOUIS: I mean, I think what you have happening is that people are greatly dissatisfied. If you go through the poll, it looks like they're much more unhappy with Congress than they are with the president.

So, on one level they don't, quote/unquote, "blame" him. But on the other hand, the frustration, it's an almost seething kind of anger that comes through. And voters, polls pick this up say that, you know, a fox on all of your houses. We elected you to get things done, you said hope and change, here we are eight years, seven years later, and there hasn't been enough change.

PEREIRA: I'm unhappy.

LOUIS: Somebody has to answer. LEMON: So, the buck stops with him. He's president. So, he's going

to take credit or blame for whatever happens as he has taken credit for what happened with the economy, 52 percent approval rating when it comes to the economy.

Do you think he's getting the credit he deserves, Jackie, for helping the economy to bounce back?

KUCINICH: Well, it depends on who you talk to. Hillary Clinton as part of her stump speech says the president is not getting the credit that he deserves.

[06:55:03] It all comes down to how people feel on Election Day. If they feel like the economy is doing better, Democrats are probably going to be in better shape.

PEREIRA: Well, let's take you to another big topic. This is one that it seems no president can really make -- he feels this is his biggest disappointment -- he doesn't talk much about regret but this is one -- is the issue of gun control. Sixty-two percent disapprove of his handling of that issue. He knows that he wished he could have done more.

What's interesting is on gun control laws, we have another poll here, has Barack Obama gone too far? Thirty-nine percent -- 38 percent say that not gone far enough, 39 percent say he's gone too far, 20 percent say he's been about right.

LEMON: Gone too far how though? He hasn't made any changes.

(CROSSTALK)

LOUIS: This is interesting. That sort of cracks it open, right? Sixty-two percent don't like what he's done but it's evenly split between people who think he's done too much and those who think he hasn't done enough.

We are a nation in utter deadlock, not just political deadlock but actual substantive deadlock. Some people want their guns and they like the things the way they are and want it to go further. There are those who say he should have done something radical like tell the Pentagon you're going to stop buying guns from certain gun-makers if you don't change your policy, something really --

PEREIRA: Do you think we could see an executive order on gun control?

LOUIS: I tend to doubt it. This is not a president who's ever favored sudden disruptive action if it was going to really sort of overturn everything. He went as far as he could on the Affordable Care Act. But even that took time. He's not giving in to those kind of sudden actions.

LEMON: Now to New Hampshire. Donald Trump, he has a lot of money, he says that, he's proud of it. But he also says he's not spending a lot of money on his campaign. Now he's saying he's going to start. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Starting around January 4th, we're going to spend a lot of money. We're going to spend a lot of money over the next four weeks. And we're going to just -- we just don't want to take any chances. We're too close.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Jackie, how much will this shake up the race if he starts to spend money?

KUCINICH: It's been really interesting to see Donald Trump sort of do this campaign from the outside in. He has -- when talking to voters on the ground in New Hampshire, we had a reporter there last night, they were telling them they hadn't been asked by the Trump campaign to go knocking on doors. Some of those fundamental, traditional things you see, particularly in the early states.

So, Trump spending money and maybe getting out the vote, you know, maybe his poll numbers will rise again. You never know.

PEREIRA: Well, you never know. We'll be watching.

What's interesting that happened in New Hampshire last night wasn't so much the fact that he didn't continue to attack the Clintons but what he did do, Errol, was he shifted his focus, focusing more on Chris Christie, on the "New Hampshire Union Leader", the paper he's had an ongoing tiff with.

LEMON: He hates them.

PEREIRA: He really does, he really does. I'm curious, what did you make of all of that?

LOUIS: He hates the newspaper. The feeling seems to be mutual.

PEREIRA: They compared him to Biff from "Back to the Future", and that really got under his skin.

PEREIRA: It's going to go under in a couple of years. It's nothing but a pile of garbage, et cetera.

LOUIS: Right, right.

PEREIRA: They call him dishonest and hard to understand. Confusing.

LOUIS: I think the most serious charged leveled by the newspaper, the one he has to worry about is when they say he's not a serious conservative. That he doesn't systematically thought through what he stands for so you can't attach any principles to it.

That's kind of a serious indictment of somebody. It also, frankly, reflects what Donald Trump has been all through this, which is somebody who's challenging a lot of the established base of the Republican Party. The way that things go, he's got a populist surge coming, sort of from

the outside. But the institutions of the Republican Party, the sort of clusters, the organized caucuses within it, which the newspaper is an important part and always has been, they're not so comfortable with it. That's really what this reflects.

PEREIRA: It's a bit like the water or the weather, wait a minute, you'll see more from Donald Trump in the coming --

LEMON: And the water in some places.

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: Jackie, Errol, good to have with us. Thank you so much.

LOUIS: Thank you.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

PERIERA: Well, we are following a whole lot of news this morning. I think it's time for us to get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Mexican authorities apprehended the so-called affluenza teen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This kid was 16 when he killed four people. He's only 18 now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He faces the possibility of up to ten years in jail. And for the victim's families, they say that's not enough time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are reports that Donald Trump's campaign is going to put some money out there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump tied with the pope as the second most admired man in America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump has to sort of demonstrate now he's serious and not just appealing to the cameras.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities in Belgium believe they have foiled a possible new year's terror plot in Brussels.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Targeting several emblematic sites.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police were hovering military style uniforms and ISIS propaganda materials.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PEREIRA: Good morning and welcome back to your NEW DAY.