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Saudi Arabia Cuts Diplomatic Ties with Iran; Interview with State Department Spokesperson John Kirby; President Announces Executive Action on Gun Control; GOP Presidential Candidates Campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire; Clinton Keeps Up Her Big Push in Iowa. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 05, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: -- an attack on Saudi Arabia's embassy in Iran as retaliation. CNN's international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson begins our coverage live from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. What is the latest, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The rhetoric keeps ramping up Alisyn. President Rouhani called the execution of the Shia cleric the Saudis called a terrorist, the Iranian president said it was a crime that he was executed. We've seen now Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait now joining the list, Bahrain as well, downgrading their diplomatic ties with Tehran, and today the Saudis say that they're cutting all flights between Iran and Saudi Arabia. They're cutting economic ties as well. They are saying that the pilgrims, these religious pilgrims that come to perform the haj here in Saudi Arabia, tens of thousands coming every month or so from Iran to Saudi Arabia, they can still come.

The reality on the ground here as I've been speaking with government officials in Riyadh today, they all believe Iran is trying to interfere inside Saudi Arabia. They believe that the Shia cleric who was executed for the Saudis believe fermenting terrorism was in fact being egged on, pushed on by Iran. They believe that until Iran decides to stop interfering, as they say, inside Saudi Arabia, then they will continue this diplomatic spat. The country that w. under pressure from Iran to the south and Yemen to the north along the border with Iraq where Iran is getting stronger, they feel Syria as well. Iran is maintaining a strong hand there. Saudi's interests in that country are diminishing. This is the context to this diplomatic spat. And at the moment where things stand today we're not seeing any downturn, only getting tighter spot. And these are the two most powerful countries in this region Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Nic, thanks for laying out all of the complexities for us. Joining us now to talk about them is State Department spokesperson John Kirby. Good morning, John. Thanks so much for being on NEW DAY. Before we get to what the U.S. is trying to do to lessen tensions, can you just clarify something for us? Did the U.S. warn Saudi Arabia beforehand that it should not execute this Shiite cleric?

JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We've been mindful of the legal process in Saudi Arabia now for a long time and we have expressed our concerns privately and publicly to Saudi leaders about that for some time about that.

Now, obviously we were aware of most of these cases that ended up being finally carried through here over the weekend, and we've expressed concerns about those cases as well writ large over the last several months or so. So I don't want to get into specifically what we said about each and every case. We don't want to dive into individual cases too much. But we did make our concerns known writ large and we certainly have made our concerns known about the legal process in Saudi Arabia and the need for human rights.

CAMEROTA: So the fact that our ally, Saudi Arabia, ignored the U.S. warning, what does that tell you?

KIRBY: Again, I don't want to get into what was specifically said, but Saudi is a key partner, a key friend in the region. They're a member of the coalition going after ISIL. They played a very key role in getting the opposition groups in Syria together and unifying around some negotiating principles. They are a leader in the region. We need their leadership. We want their leadership. And as I said yesterday, we want local leaders in the region to work through this diplomatic row and get past it.

There are a lot of pressing issues in the region that local leaders need to focus on -- Iraq, Syria, Yemen, elsewhere. There are lots of things going on and what we want them to do is work through this bilaterally and get past it.

CAMEROTA: But is the feeling at the State Department that what Saudi Arabia did with this execution was an intentional provocation of Iran?

KIRBY: Again, I think I'd let Saudi officials speak for their process here. They'll tell you that this was in keeping with a judicial process that they had ongoing, a process, like I said, that we have concerns about before. So I don't want to get into motivations in terms of specific issues that might have driven one or other of the executions. They will tell you that it was a legal process. We've expressed concerns about that process.

Look, it is done, and I think it is important now that leaders from Saudi and leaders from Iran try to work this out bilaterally, continue some dialogue, get past this thing as much as they can. We believe, you heard Nic's report about other nations now jumping in here. We believe that diplomatic engagement and conversation and dialogue are really, really important. These are all sovereign decisions that these nations need to make. I get that. But we really think that engagement in conversation is the best antidote here to working our way through this.

CAMEROTA: Right. So what exactly is the State Department doing in terms of trying to bring down this tension?

KIRBY: One of things we're doing is we're working hard to communicate with leaders throughout the region very directly, privately, our concerns where this is going and the need to turn it around and the need to focus on key strategic issues in the region like Iraq, Syria, ISIL, Yemen. [08:05:07] There's a lot of things on the agenda that we want people

to stay focused on. What we're not trying to do is get in the middle of this particular issue between Saudi Arabia and Iran. We believe it is best for these two nations to work this out bilaterally.

CAMEROTA: But what part does the U.S. really have? Back to original question of if Saudi Arabia didn't pay much heed to the U.S. warning not to do this, now what weight does the U.S. carry telling them to use diplomacy to work with Iran?

KIRBY: This isn't about using leverage or clout. This isn't about us making threats. This is about trying to get these two sides to work this out together through dialogue and through conversation. Look, our leadership in the region is not questioned. Everybody knows it's the United States who is leading the coalition against ISIL. It was the United States who helped get the international community to the table to work towards a political transition in Syria. Our leadership, the sincerity of what we're trying to do in the Middle East is not questioned by anybody. But this isn't a time for threats and for clout and trying to use leverage. This is a time for these two leaders locally, regionally, to get together and work this out.

CAMEROTA: But John, if they are not going to do that, what does this mean for the U.S. and particularly the U.S. fight against ISIS?

KIRBY: Look, we obviously are mindful that a row like this could have other implications elsewhere, which is why we're trying so hard to get this resolved through these nations. We don't want this to impact operations against ISIL, and so far it has not. We don't want this to affect the political transition in Syria and the move to get the opposition groups at the table with the Assad regime, hopefully later this month. So far that hasn't changed either. But we're mindful of the potential effects here, and that is why we're working this so hard.

CAMEROTA: So John, you think that as of today Saudi Arabia and Iran both show up for the so called peace process to figure out how to resolve what is going on in Syria?

Sadly we have lost John -- can you hear me? We lost his audio. We apologize for that. Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Michelle Kosinski is standing by as we can see President Obama is just hours from his big announcement on gun control. All right, apparently John Kirby is back. Alisyn, why don't you finish up that conversation?

CAMEROTA: All right, let me remember where I was. John, great to have you back. Sorry for those gremlins technology-wise.

KIRBY: That's OK.

CAMEROTA: What I was saying is what is your level of confidence that these parties, given that this tinderbox now, will show up for the peace process? KIRBY: We certainly hope and expect that that will be the case,

Alisyn. Obviously it is important to have these two countries continue to be at the table as we work through the political solution in Syria. They have been important players in the past. We want that to continue in the future. These are decisions they have to make of course, but we're not aware of anything right now as you and I speak that are going to throw that off track for hopefully later this month.

CAMEROTA: John, we know that your hope of everything will be resolved. But is your assessment today? Is this getting worse with what appears to be the taking sides of all the countries in the Middle East?

KIRBY: Look, I'm reticent to give it a grade, a letter grade here, but obviously we are concerned. We remain deeply concerned about the diplomatic row and sort of the addition of other nations now chiming in on this. These are decisions they have to make. We respect that. These are sovereign decisions that countries have to make with respect to their diplomatic relations.

What we would say, and we've said this privately as well is, let's not throw diplomatic engagement completely away, especially at a time of tension. Let's look for ways to take the tension down a notch. Let's look for ways to continue some kind of dialogue and try to move past this. We know that both Saudi Arabia and Iran have communicated their concerns to the U.N. That is not unproductive. That is actually a useful step. We want to see that kind of engagement continue.

CAMEROTA: OK, John Kirby, thanks so much for your patient with the pesky satellite. We appreciate it. Now let's go over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: Are we sure?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: I'm kidding. Great conversation there. The president has several pressing issues on his plate right now. In fact He is just hours from his big announcement on gun control. He's going to be calling for an expansion on background checks on many firearm sales. We'll get the latest now from CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski standing so resolutely by, waiting for us to come to here. Hey, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Michaela. Look at what the administration is trying to do here. You see all the ways they are trying to make changes, but you are also immediately struck by the limits. The president is acting on his own, but he has to act within existing laws. So these changes are presented as proposals, guidance, encouragement for states. Even the background check issue is basically just a clarification of who can be considered a private seller versus someone in business selling guns. So clearly what they want to do is establish more and better enforcement.

[08:10:02] But there are plenty of questions how this is going to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will potentially save lives.

KOSINSKI: President Obama teeing up to announce a major overhaul on gun control this morning, giving Congress a hard pass.

OBAMA: These are recommendations that are well within my legal authority and the executive branch.

KOSINSKI: The president set to lay out a series of executive orders, including clarifying that anyone in the business of selling guns must acquire a license and ensure background checks no matter the volume of guns sold or where. The White House also urging more state reporting of background check records that could disqualify buyers with mental illness or a history of domestic violence, proposing beefing up the background check system itself, hiring more staff to operate it around the clock. And the president will ask for much more funding for mental health treatment. The Democratic campaign trail buzzing with excitement.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am so proud of what the president announced today. The next president on the very first day could wipe it away. You know I won't wipe it away.

KOSINSKI: The next president could very well wipe it away, and that's exactly what the GOP 2016 plan to do.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But don't worry. When I'm elected president, on my first day behind my desk, those order are gone.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will veto that. I will un-sign so that so fast, so fast.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: So now the ATF puts out guidance on what exactly it means to be in the business of selling guns. It means you are spending some time on it. You are making a profit. And this is repetitive. That means, as the White House puts it, if you are selling two guns a year or 200,000 guns a year, if you're doing this at a gun show or even on the dark web, you need to register and make sure that background checks are going on. And if you don't there are harsh penalties. Questions of course, how is the federal government going to make sure you do that? And how are they going to know if you don't? Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right, Michelle.

We should give you a special programming reminder. This Thursday at 8:00 p.m. President Obama will join Anderson Cooper for an exclusive live town hall event on guns in America. The president will discuss the executive action on guns he's expected to announce this week, and he will take questions from a live studio audience. Again, a town hall on guns in America with President Obama moderated by Anderson Cooper this Thursday night 8:00 p.m. right here on CNN. CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Viewing party at my house?

PEREIRA: Sure.

CUOMO: Alisyn watches the kids?

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: No? That wasn't even close.

To be sure, the election has changed. Republican presidential candidates are basically moving to Iowa and New Hampshire. They know it will be the first three, and then everyone else once the votes in those starts. So what are the new angles of attack? CNN's Athena Jones is live in New Hampshire. Athena, what can you tell us?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. That's right, these Republican candidates are making multiple stops in these two early voting states. They're trying to win over voters, hoping to make the case for themselves and against their rivals. So, for instance, Marco Rubio is warning against isolationism in foreign policy. That's a critique aimed at Ted Cruz. Cruz in Iowa yesterday hit Rubio on immigration, saying that he supported massive amnesty. And despite spending a lot of time over the last several days talking about former president Bill Clinton's past indiscretions, Trump kept the focus on Hillary saying on the stump last night, saying electing here would mean four more years of Obama or worse. Meanwhile, Chris Christie, who is rising in the polls here in New Hampshire hit Clinton, Trump, and his other rivals. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wonder if the people in Egypt think now that they live under martial law that their lives are better because Hillary Clinton called for the ouster of Hosni Mubarak.

Show time is over, everybody. We are not electing an entertainer in chief.

We don't need a president who is going to sit behind that desk the first day, spin around in the chair and say, gee whiz, isn't it amazing I'm president?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: That "gee whiz" line was aimed at the first term senators running for the White House. Chris Christie has been arguing that they are not just ready to be commander in chief because they haven't run anything. So we can expect to hear this kind of sharper criticism and sharpening even more in the coming weeks and days, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Athena, thank you. Let's look now at the Democrats. Frontrunner Hillary Clinton keeping up her big push in Iowa and New Hampshire trying to catch Bernie Sanders there. Former president Bill Clinton now hitting the campaign trail on her behalf. Let's bring in CNN Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny. He's live in Des Moines, Iowa. What's the latest, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Alisyn. A one-two punch from the Clintons, Bill Clinton campaigning in New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton campaigning here in Iowa.

[08:15:03] There is a similarity between both of these campaign styles. Neither one of them are taking the bait from Donald Trump by design here.

Now, they are spending so much time talking about the Republican side of this campaign, urging voters to watch what these Republican candidates are saying.

I was struck by what Bill Clinton said in New Hampshire yesterday. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: I don't fit anymore. First of all, I'm a happy grandfather and I'm not mad at anybody. And secondly, I thought an election was supposed to be a job interview.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, Bill Clinton in his own way sort of slowing down the conversation here, trying to urge voters to pay attention to what the Republican candidates are actually saying. Now, those independent voters in New Hampshire so important here.

But Hillary Clinton also not taking the bait. A voter in Cedar Rapids last night asked her specifically about Donald Trump. She has engaged with him frequently but she's decided in 2016 at least for now to not follow him. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've adopted a New Year's resolution. I'm going to let him live in his alternative reality and I'm not going to respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, we'll see if she keeps that up if she campaigns today in Iowa. She'll be campaigning at three different stops today.

Now, she doesn't mention Bernie Sanders at all. But, of course, that is the person who their campaign is watching for. They are -- keep, you know, in mind they are so mindful of eight years ago when she was surprised here in Iowa and New Hampshire by Barack Obama. So she doesn't want Bernie Sanders to creep up behind her. But she's spending more of her time talking about Republicans -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Jeff, thanks for the latest we're watching today.

I want to give you an update now on some breaking news that we told you about earlier this morning and it is good news. Police say they have rescued a woman and 11 children who were being held hostage at a motel in DeKalb County, Georgia, overnight. The man holding them apparently stabbed himself in the neck. He was removed and taken to the hospital in critical condition. Police say the women and children are safe. It is unclear exactly what their relationship to the man is at this time.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Former South Carolina police officer Michael Slager released from jail after posting bond. Slager is charged with murder for shooting Walter Scott in the back. Remember this cell phone video that a passerby took? Wound up changing the entire notion of what happened in this.

He will be under house arrest and has been ordered not to have any contact with members of Scott's family. The former officer's trial not expected to begin for several months.

CAMEROTA: An Atlanta -- listen up, Michaela, an Atlanta educator is getting props not just for what he does in the classroom but for what he does on the dance floor. Check out Clark's moves.

OK --

CUOMO: I like that.

PEREIRA: Wait for it.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Come on now.

CAMEROTA: These are his talented students.

CUOMO: Ooh.

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh he is good. He's a middle school teacher. He's the cofounder of the Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta. They are dancing to D-Lo's "bet you can't do it like me" challenge, throwing down their best Whip/Nae Nae and Milly Rock.

PEREIRA: I love this guy so much. He said he wanted to create a school where kids could feel the spirit and that kids would say when they walk you to store every day, "I love coming here".

CAMEROTA: I feel it.

PEREIRA: That's fantastic.

CAMEROTA: He can Nae Nae with the best of them.

CUOMO: When we go to break I will show you a video of my mother who was watching my daughter dance. Like that ain't dancing and then showed her a little bit and she became obsessed and I will show you the video.

PEREIRA: I cannot wait to see this video. CUOMO: I show it to you my mother will immediately come here and give me a beat down.

All right. So, as we mentioned, Obama is expected to announce new executive actions to fight gun violence. How will the chances be received on the campaign trail? Hint, hint -- no so good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

President Obama's new gun control policy will be a hot topic today on the campaign trail where Republican candidates have already come out against it. Let's discuss.

Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst and the editorial director of "The National Journal", and Jackie Kucinich, the senior politics editor at "The Daily Beast".

Lady, gentleman, happy New Year to you both. I haven't seen you yet.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Happy New Year.

JACKIE KUCINICH, THE DAILY BEAST: Happy New Year.

CUOMO: So Mr. Brownstein, when you look at this you have those against any more gun control saying this is the worst and those who are in favor saying this is the best since Brady. Do you believe that either of those are coming to fruition?

BROWNSTEIN: No, it's a relatively modest move within the limits of his power that nonetheless is deeply inflammatory, but it doesn't go nearly as far as the 2013 legislation that was blocked by a filibuster in the Senate.

But I think it really does, Chris, signify an important change in the debate as we've talked about before. After the 2000 election, when Al Gore lost that photo finish to George W. Bush, most Democrats concluded that gun control was a key reason why he lost and the party really lost its voice on those issues over much of the next 15 years. In '08 and '12, Obama did not emphasize it greatly himself.

What's changed is that Democrats have lost most of the voters that they had feared by losing gun control, primarily culturally conservative whites, blue collar, rural, et cetera. And they have replaced them with a new coalition that is much more receptive to gun control. So, what is different now is you have both sides on the field and the result I think in 2016, the general election is going to feature a more direct engagement and confrontation over gun control than any campaign since 2000.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, this is going to, according to the White House, tackle the so-called gun show loophole so it will try to expand background checks for private sellers online through the Internet as well as gun shows. This is something that 89 percent of Americans according to the latest Quinnipiac poll say they want. So, why is this a winning strategy to go against background checks for

all the GOP candidates?

KUCINICH: What you hear from a lot of the GOP candidates is that this is a slippery slope. This is one step closer to something that you hear a lot when you hear Republicans try to gin up voters on this issue. They talk about a gun registry. They talk about Obama is going to go too far. This is just one step.

So, I think that is where they go. It is not necessarily this. It is also the fact that he's bypassing Congress and we know Congress isn't going to do anything on this, but still, it's out of the legislative system and it is also a step towards, you know, a more gun control when you are a Republican candidate.

[08:25:01] CUOMO: And --

BROWNSTEIN: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Yes, go ahead.

CUOMO: Go ahead, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: Can I have one quick point?

I mean, public opinion about gun control which I've written about 20 years is contradictory and deeply conflicted. On the one hand, as you pointed out, most individual proposals do have majority support, like expanded background check, like an assault weapon ban.

On the other hand, if you ask the philosophical question is it more important to control gun ownership or protect gun rights, you get a 50/50 splits and if you go further and ask whether gun control will reduce violence, meaningfully, usually you get a majority saying no. And I think what you've got now is an issue that really activates each side's coalition.

I mean, you look at the groups that are in the Democratic coalition, by and large, they think gun control will work and that's why you see blue states moving forward. And in the Republican coalition, they are deeply opposed to it as much as on cultural as practical ground and it really has become one of those issues that widens the cultural chasm in our policies.

CAMEROTA: Right. I mean, it does seem as though this one is targeted with fairly narrowly that is going to deal with the gun show loophole. That's one of the only things he can do and that is something the public says that they want.

CUOMO: Eighty-nine percent is the polls that Alisyn likes, it says you should do better with the gun show loophole. You can argue this doesn't and will still allow you to sell to people in your state, but it does expand the definition and refine the definition of who is in the business of selling. So, I guess it will do something.

Here is what it doesn't do Ron Brownstein, seeing how you like to own this issue. It will not stop Sandy Hook. It will not stop what is going on in Chicago right now, because people who use guns to commit crimes usually get them illegally.

So, you are only finding ways to burden people like me who want to buy them legally. Fair criticism.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, no, I mean, that is the argument, right? But, you know, millions have been denied guns under the background check system going back to 1993 suggests that at least some people who shouldn't have guns are being stopped through the use of the background check and expanding it to more people would make sense on that front.

Whether it makes a big difference is another question and that is why I say, I mean, the public opinion is complex here, where people believe this is a valuable, a step they would support. They question how much impact it would ultimately have.

And, look, I think as I said, this has become a culturally issue somewhat divorced from the practical implications from many of the voters most energized about this. It is simply question of kind of big city liberals imposing their values on our way of life. And I think it has been largely detached from the immediate practical impact.

And, of course, there is the issue that Jackie noted as well which is that for Republicans this is also about a pattern of Obama stretching executive authority on issues like immigration and climate and gay rights everywhere he can. So there are a lot of factors here that converge to make this especially volatile.

KUCINICH: Well, if I can add to what Ron saying, another thing here is, is that, you know, Democratic voters they agree with background checks, they support it but they don't tend to vote on it. On the other side, Republican voters tend to get out and vote on the gun issue. They're very passionate about it.

So, until Democrats can really energize their voters and make them go to the polls based on this issue, they are going to lose.

CAMEROTA: You know what -- go ahead, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: I don't completely agree. I don't completely agree. I think that what's happened is gun control has become part of a complex of issues that really define the cultural values of each side. It's not that people necessarily vote particular on guns anymore than they vote particularly on gay marriage or climate change --

KUCINICH: I don't know. I think a lot of people do vote on guns.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, no, I think it basically becomes part of the overall picture of whether the party shares my values or not, and it reinforces the kind of cultural separation we see in politics right now where you have basically white collar socially liberal whites, particularly in urban areas, moving toward the Democratic Party, and an overwhelming movement toward the Republicans in rural areas and many blue collar. I think that's what happened is the idea that guns only benefit Republicans is obsolete. I think it is one of the issues that knit together a Democratic coalition that is now held more by cultural values than economic interests.

CAMEROTA: We owe you. We're going to owe you one. We're out of time. We have to leave it there.

Jackie, Ron, thanks so much.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right. The clock ticking on those armed activists occupying a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon. A local sheriff offering two words of advice: go home. Will they?

We'll take a look, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)