Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

North Korea Claims It Has Tested a Hydrogen Bomb; Trump: Cruz's Citizenship Could Be a 'Big Problem'; Tearful Obama Outlines Plan to Fight Gun Violence; Interview with Sen. Steve Daines. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 06, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with North Korea, claiming it has successful detonated a hydrogen bomb for the very first time. The explosion so powerful it registered with the force of a 5.1 magnitude earthquake. The reclusive nation saying it was an act of self-defense against the U.S.

[07:00:15] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: There's still a big "if" here, though. Experts are saying that that seismic event may not have been an H-bomb. But if it were, it does represent a dangerous escalation of North Korea's nuclear capability.

Now meanwhile, the U.N. Security Council is convening an emergency meeting this morning to discuss the international response.

We have this story covered the way only CNN can. Let's begin with Paula Hancocks. She's live in Seoul, South Korea. Breaking details, Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, this is almost a carbon copy, really, of what we saw at the previous nuclear test in 2013.

First of all, that seismic activity was detected in the exactly same spot as previously the underground test site in the northeast of the country. And then, of course, there was the speculation it was a man- made explosion. And then a confirmation from North Korea.

The difference this time, of course, Pyongyang claiming it is a hydrogen bomb. But there are many South Korean officials that are casting doubt on that claim.

This is very close to the Chinese border. And we actually saw just how significant that tremor was. People felt it there, and you can see from some video we have that it was actually seen just how significant the tremor was.

This is No. 4 when it comes to the nuclear tests. There was one back in 2013 in February. That, as well, was under Kim Jong-un, the current North Korean leader. There was one in 2009 under his father, Kim Jong-Il, and again in 2006.

The first time that North Korea claimed that they had this capability and they were going for a nuclear program was 2003.

Now, North Korea has, as it always does, blamed the U.S. for this test. It has effectively said that this was self-defense, because the U.S. is hostile towards it. And as long as the U.S. didn't try and depose the regime, that it wouldn't use nuclear weapons.

It's not the first time Pyongyang has blamed the U.S., and it is very unlikely to be the last time.

They also released a photo of the young leader, Kim Jong-un, signing the order back on January 3 for this test to go ahead. There was a handwritten note which went with it, which was apparently written by Kim Jong-un himself, which says, "For the victorious and glorious year of 2016 when the 7th convention of the Workers Party will be held, make the world look up to our strong nuclear country and labor party by opening the year with exciting noise of the first hydrogen bomb."

So a very triumphant message from North Korea. They are very proud of what they say is a hydrogen bomb.

Michaela, back to you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Paula.

Well, that claim from North Korea is drawing global condemnation and skepticism from leaders around the world.

Will Ripley, who has traveled to North Korea some five times in the last year and a half, is live in Beijing with that part of the story for us -- Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The biggest concern, Michaela, both here in China, also in the United States is that, if North Korea has this technology in its hands, what will it do? Will it sell this technology to other, perhaps even less stable regimes? And is this going to escalate even further?

There's not necessarily a thought that North Korea is imminently going to attack another nation with nuclear weapons. But there is the grave concern that this nuclear program will continue to grow aggressively unless the world steps in and does something to stop it. And so far, sanctions just haven't worked.

The condemnation coming in from all over. The U.S. State Department spokesman, John Kirby, saying, quote, "While we cannot confirm these claims of an H-bomb at this time, we condemn any violation of United Nations Security Council resolutions and again call on North Korea to abide by its international obligations and commitments."

The list of countries speaking out: the United States, South Korea, Japan, China, France, the United Kingdom, Russia and even the International Atomic Energy Agency weighing in on this.

Meanwhile, in Japan, they have sent up a plane to test for radioactivity in the skies, and the prime minister of Japan, Shinzo Abe, putting out this statement this morning, quote, "North Korea's nuclear threat is a serious threat to our nation's security and absolutely cannot be tolerated. We strongly denounce it."

In the past, North Korean missiles that have been tested have actually flown over Okinawa, which is where many United States troops are stationed. So this, of course, a regional concern. If these are, in fact, miniaturized warheads being placed on these North Korean missiles, both of those programs continue to develop.

The U.N. Security Council emergency meeting happening at 11 a.m. Eastern Time, requested by the U.S. and Japan to figure out what the world's next move will be -- Alisyn.

CUOMO: Will, I'll take it. Thank you very much for the reporting.

Let's bring in CNN chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, happy new year. Good to see you. One of the big issues that this raises is that we had an expert on this morning that said, hey, it's not just North Korea that is involved in this. Iranian scientists have been present during this testing. Now that is an interesting implication of this activity.

[07:05:04] Is this something that's widely known? Certainly, if this columnist from "Forbes" knows, I assume the governments involved do. But what does that add to the mix of the analysis?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, if that's true, that is obviously not widely known. None of the research that we've looked at has put that there, but of course, if that's true, that is an issue.

But really, what is really an issue is, if this claim of a hydrogen bomb test is true. Because a hydrogen bomb is the most sophisticated kind of nuclear weapon. It is not used in war yet. It is a fission fusion. It's a thermonuclear weapon, and it's the kind of nuclear weapon that the big declared nuclear powers have. Plus, it is 100 times at least more powerful than anything the North Koreans have had in the past.

Most believe this is about regime survival. And what's happening is that a succession of U.S. administrations, whether Democratic or -- or Republican, have not fully been able to grabble with this issue.

If you remember, back in the early 2000s, President George W. Bush decided to confront North Korea over their undeclared uranium and centrifuge program.

CUOMO: Right.

AMANPOUR: And that caused North Korea to pull out of the NPT, kick out the inspectors. And it has been relentlessly been moving forward ever since.

The Obama administration has left it mostly to China, and China has been warning, at least since April, according to "The Wall Street Journal," that North Korea is much further ahead in its uranium path than anybody expected. And this, if it's true, would prove that.

We were there.

CUOMO: Right.

AMANPOUR: I was there in North Korea in 2008. And at the time it had destroyed its plutonium. But it's the uranium part that now is the big problem.

CUOMO: Well, the consensus seems to be that they are on the path towards hydrogen capabilities of fusion, even if they're not there yet. So you have to get ahead of the threat. That seems to be the consensus, even if this is being puffed up by the regime right now.

But I'm telling you, if this is true about these Iranian scientists being there, what this "Forbes" guy said, that adds an entirely different dimension to this. We're going to try and go down that road with state officials, see where they take us on it.

But in terms of why this is happening, two big admissions from the Korean side, North Korean side that we should look at. The first one is, this from the North Korea state news agency yesterday in a statement. "If there's no invasion on our sovereignty, we will not use nuclear weapons. This H-bomb test brings us to a higher level of nuclear power."

Now, obviously, that statement is contradictory within itself. Do you believe there is a real threat that, if they had the capability, they would use it? Is that the basis that the response should be on?

AMANPOUR: Well, look, you know, the whole world hopes and prays that no civilized nation would ever use a nuclear weapon. But there are accidents. And right now, we know that top American military officials believe that, even though they haven't tested it, North Korea does have the technology to mount a nuclear warhead on an intercontinental ballistic missile that could reach the West Coast of the United States.

So their capability is expanding and expanding much, much faster than is publicly talked about and publicly investigated. And that's where the scientists are incredibly nervous.

For instance, the great American nuclear scientist, Siegfried Hecker, who's one of the only Americans who gets fairly regular access into North Korea, into its nuclear programs and nuclear facilities, into China, sits there with all sorts of officials from around the world and sees firsthand and is able to give the best-case assessment of what's going on in that very secretive nation. And last year he warned very, very clearly that this was on track.

CUOMO: The Chinese have also a great set of eyes on the situation and know as well as any who are going on. How important are they? Supposedly they're going to come out and give a condemnatory statement. But we keep hearing that they are the key to any sanctions that would matter to North Korea. What's your take on that? AMANPOUR: Well, yes, the Chinese are the closest associated not only, you know, the closest associates but also close physically to North Korea. And in the past have had a lot of influence on North Korea.

But since Xi Jinping became president, they've been much tougher on North Korea, and they've had much less influence and much less connection, particularly with the current leader, Kim Jong-un. So that's a problem there, because some believe that maybe their influence is slightly less than it should be and that it was.

But most people do not believe that this is an issue that can be solved unless China plus the United States, Japan, perhaps even Russia, but everybody gets together to really -- to really try to make this something that's not just stopped. Because right now they are moving ahead. So we can't even talk about rolling back. First it has to be stopped, and then it has to be rolled back, according to the nuclear scientists.

And this is going to take a lot of concentrated effort. And as you know, you know, most times we talk about North Korea, it's about the Sony hack or it's about the film, "The Interview" or whatever. Whereas this issue is massively, massively important. And it comes at a time that the United States and the world powers have negotiated this nuclear deal with Iran.

[07:10:15] So, perhaps, if that is somewhat more taken care of, they can focus now on North Korea.

North Korea has nuclear warheads, has nuclear weapons, has tested them. And that's a problem. It's not just maybe they have them. And the estimate is that they might have 20 by the end of 2015, which we've just passed, and another 20 by the end of this 2016. So that's a huge number of nuclear warheads and nuclear weapons to be sitting in North Korea.

CUOMO: And maybe one of the motivations why we see the U.S. and other nation states immediately dismissing the potential and saying this is about his birthday, it's about the upcoming political meetings, that he's just trying to look strong, is in part, giving voice to what you're speaking to, which is we haven't found a solution to this yet and a way to deal with North Korea. So we'll see what comes from in.

Christiane, I've got to go right now. We'll continue this conversation as we get more information on the developments. Thank you for the perspective, as always -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Back to the campaign trail.

He did it with President Obama. Now Donald Trump appears to be playing the birther card with Republican rival Ted Cruz. Trump says this could be a, quote, "big problem for the GOP," since Cruz was born in Canada. CNN's Athena Jones is live in Washington with more.

Good morning, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. This seems like a favorite topic for Trump. And it's just more proof

that the days of him holding his fire against Ted Cruz are over now that Cruz is leading in polls in Iowa. Trump is doing everything he can to raise doubts about him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know what it all means. I know that other people are talking about it.

JONES (voice-over): Donald Trump deflecting last night in New Hampshire. The frontrunner saying Republican rival Ted Cruz's natural-born citizenship is a question that only other people are asking.

TRUMP: People are worried that, if he weren't born in this country, which he wasn't -- he was born in Canada -- and he actually had a Canadian passport along with a U.S. passport until just recently, I think within the last couple of years. So I don't know what it all means.

JONES: Trump said, in an earlier interview with the "Washington Post," that Cruz being born in Canada could be "very precarious" for the GOP, asking Republican voters to think twice, saying, "Do we want a candidate who could be tied up in court for two years? That would be a big problem."

Trump hinting Democrats could take Cruz to court, because the Constitution requires the president to be a natural-born citizen. The junior senator was granted citizenship by birth, since his mother was an American citizen. But what constitutes natural-born for a president has never been tested in court.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I'm going to let my response stick with that tweet.

JONES: Cruz responded with this metaphorical tweet, linking to Fonzie from "Happy Days" jumping a shark.

CRUZ: The best way to respond to this kind of attack is to laugh it on and to move on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mockery.

CRUZ: To the issues that matter.

JONES: Meanwhile, Trump's campaign rallies continue to be packed with controversy. A supporter shouting, "President Obama's a Muslim" last night.

TRUMP: What did you say? I didn't hear it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Muslim!

TRUMP: OK. I didn't say it.

JONES: The billionaire pretending to be outraged.

TRUMP: I'm supposed to reprimand the man. Who is the man that said that? I have to reprimand. How dare you? OK. Have I reprimanded? OK. I'm admonishing you for the press.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: So a rather sarcastic response from Trump to that voter there.

There's one more thing about the Cruz citizenship question that it's important to remind folks. That is that Trump has been on both sides of this issue. Four months ago he tweeted, "I hear it was checked out by every attorney, every which way. And I understand Ted is in fine shape." Now he's singing a different tune. And the big thing that's changed is that Trump is no longer leading all the polls in Iowa -- Chris.

PEREIRA: I'll take it here, Athena. All right. That's all right. Thanks so much.

Well, Donald Trump and other big name Republicans like Ted Cruz are slamming President Obama's executive action aimed at limiting gun violence. The president shedding tears during his White House address. He will speak more about it tomorrow night with CNN in an exclusive live town-hall event.

CNN's White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, live in Washington with the latest for us -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Michaela.

Yes, there was a lot of emotion in that room. As the president walked in, it was packed with gun control advocates, victims of shootings, their families. Former congresswoman Gabby Giffords was there. The person who introduced the president was a dad whose 7-year-old son was killed in the Sandy Hook massacre in a Connecticut elementary school three years ago. And that's really the last time we saw the president get similarly emotional on this issue.

But yesterday talking about believing in the Second Amendment but also believing in Americans' rights to assemble, to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without getting shot. That's when his emotion came out, talking about the victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:15:08] BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And from every family who never imagined their loved one would be taken from our lives by a bullet from a gun. Every time I think about those kids, it gets me mad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: The White House is framing this as a call to action, a call, as they're putting it, for more passion among people who feel the same way, urging them to vote their minds and hold lawmakers accountable -- Chris.

CUOMO: Michelle Kosinski, thank you very much for the reporting.

So we also want to tell you about a U.S. soldier being killed in Afghanistan. This happened during a joint Special Operations mission with Afghan forces in the southern town of Marjah. That's the Helmand province. Two other U.S. soldiers were injured. They got evacuated. We have no further information on them. This was all during the rescue effort of an American medevac chopper that hit a wall and was damaged. Still on the ground in Marjah. There are U.S. troops trying to secure it, facing heavy fire from Taliban insurgents. We get more information, we'll bring it to you.

CAMEROTA: The second of six Baltimore police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray is about to stand trial. Caesar Goodson faces second-degree murder and other charges. Both sides will argue pretrial motions in court today. Now, jury selection is scheduled to begin Monday.

William Porter whose trial ended in a hung jury, is fighting a subpoena for him to have to testify against his fellow officers.

PEREIRA: Bill Cosby's wife, Camille, will not be -- deposed, rather, today after a judge allowed her emergency motion for a last-minute stay so an appeal can be heard. Her attorneys successfully argued it would cause her irreparable injury if that deposition went forward. She was set to testify in a civil lawsuit involving seven women who accused Bill Cosby of sexual misconduct and who are now suing him for defamation. They are among Cosby's 50 accusers.

CAMEROTA: We were anticipating her deposition, because it will be fascinating to hear what she knows, what she can offer, if she will actually say anything.

PEREIRA: And what -- how that would affect or if it would affect the ongoing criminal case against him, too.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: She's playing two roles, right? She's the wife. This is a civil case. The different rules about, you know, that privilege. But she's also the business manager.

Irreparable harm. What does that mean? Only the judge knows, because you know, they do this pleading to the judge. This doesn't end it.

PEREIRA: This is not a done deal. Right?

CUOMO: No.

PEREIRA: You were telling me about that.

CUOMO: This is about further...

PEREIRA: They'll examine it further. CUOMO: Right. You know, the point of the judge here is, "We don't

want to do anything that we don't have to do before we have to do it. So let's keep talking about this. Why do you say she's going to be irreparably -- What does it mean to you? What are you really looking for from her? You know, does she have any of that?" This is going to continue. It's not over.

CAMEROTA: All right. We're watching all of that.

CUOMO: All right. So a big part of what happened last night with President Obama was how he was as he outlined his executive orders. He was visibly upset. And anybody who knows what he does about what actually happened at Sandy Hook should be very upset.

But we're going to talk to one Senate critic next. What is wrong with how the president was emotional last night, if anything? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:22:15] CUOMO: North Korea's apparent test of a hydrogen bomb is drawing strong condemnation and skepticism around the world. If it really was an H-bomb, if this really was successful fusion, it represents a significant escalation of the secretive regime's nuclear capability. This is certainly a big headline.

We are fortunate to have Senator Steve Daines joining us now, Republican from Montana, to discuss this, guns and also what's going on close to your neck of the woods in Oregon.

Senator, thank you for joining us. What is the immediate reaction to what's going on in North Korea. If this is what they say it is, what should the U.S. do?

SEN. STEVE DAINES (R), MONTANA: Well, this represents a direct threat to not only our national security, but really the stability of the entire world.

It's interesting that, as we look at the failed policies of the Obama administration, I think what we're seeing is the world's response to the weakness as projected by our current president. Our enemies no longer fear us. Our allies no longer trust us.

But think about 20 years ago, President Clinton was touting a peace agreement, a nuclear nonproliferation agreement with North Korea. There's a lot of parallels between what's going on in North Korea as well as in Iran today.

Think about this, the International Atomic Agency was to be the organization to ensure that North Korea did not get the nuclear bomb, did not get a hydrogen bomb. It's the same organization that this president is putting trust in to stop Iran from getting a bomb. Iran, a nation that chants "death to America" and is somebody that we cannot trust.

And so I think there's a lesson to be learned here with Iran, as well as what's going on in Korea.

CUOMO: and we are learning that there may be more of a joint purpose between North Korea and Iran than previously thought. We had this "Forbes" guy on this morning who studies this area. He says he believes Iranian scientists are helping North Koreans.

But the main problem that you had to deal with that we didn't see any better solutions come up on was, well, your allies didn't want to do sanctions anymore with Iran. They didn't work. They were still developing things. And this deal was seen for a long time, by many on both sides, as the best option. What's the better solution?

DAINES: Well, this comes back to American leadership and projecting strength as a country. This is why America needs to be leading in foreign policy around the world than President Obama's current approach, which is really leading from behind.

I mean, look at what's going on in the Middle East today. Our allies, we look at Israel. We look at Saudi Arabia. This president has cozied up to Iran, to Iran and alienated our most important ally, which is Israel, as well as Saudi Arabia.

And so this comes back to projecting strength, projecting strength from the Oval Office. And this president has projected weakness. And the Obama/Clinton foreign policy, and we're starting to see the results of that.

[07:25:08] CUOMO: So let's get to the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" portion of our discussion today: we get to guns. You say he's leading from behind abroad. He tries to lead from the front on guns; he gets similarly pilloried by people on the right. What is your problem with the executive orders that President Obama put out yesterday?

Let's put up for the audience a little quick full screen on what the basic high points are: expanding background checks for private sales. Really, just making background checks universal, is what he's trying to do. Hire more ATF agents to help do that endorsement. Increasing funds for mental health care, which everybody seems to say is important but neglected. Research and develop gun safety technology. What don't you like and why?

DAINES: Well, Cindy and I are the parents of four children. And as -- as any American parent who's seen the horrible tragedies at Sandy Hook; in Aurora, Colorado; in San Bernardino, but here's the reality.

What the president has proposed would have done nothing, nothing, to prevent these tragedies. Instead, he's more focused on undermining the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans.

And so, yes, we need to put more resources towards dealing with mental-health issues in our nation. We need to put more resources toward dealing with criminals: those who steal guns; those who steal guns and use them.

But to put in place policies -- and I read the 15 pages that were released yesterday from the president's policy that would put -- impose fines of $250,000, five-year prison terms as he's undermining the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans. That's the wrong approach. And that's why we're very concerned about what he is trying to do.

His heart is in the right place, but he -- but the policies that are in place undermine very important fundamental rights, will do nothing to keep our communities safer.

CUOMO: All right. Let's stay with this for a second, because it's obviously important right now. The -- why is his hear in the right place? Nothing has been done by Congress to help on any of this. Well, it doesn't help the mass shootings. Probably true.

However, legislating or making a move to help on 1 percent of the shootings isn't unnecessarily the most efficacious thing to do. Ninety-nine percent of them, background checks may, in fact, stop people who shouldn't get guns from getting them. That's not an abridgement of the Second Amendment.

Justice Scalia didn't even see that in the Heller case. He said there should be reasonable restrictions. What's more reasonable than having you and me checked for criminal background and mental-health adjudication? The info-sharing states, it's not done well, but that doesn't abridge your Second Amendment right. Why not do something to help some part of a problem that all of you say you recognize?

DAINES: Well, let's get to the root cause of the problem, though. The root cause of the problem is the mental health issues. The root cause of terrorism. That's where the focus needs to be placed.

And the president had a wonderful opportunity, starting off a new year to take charge and lead to ensure that we're making our communities safer. Instead, as Marco Rubio said yesterday, he seems to be obsessed instead with undermining the Second Amendment rights of law- abiding Americans.

CUOMO: I know you support Senator Rubio. I know you've endorsed him, and I know he said that, and it sounds great but I just don't get it. I don't see how a background check that certainly has been tested, certainly has not been found to be constitutionally violative in any way, how that infringes on your Second Amendment rights. It's just extending that check to everyone.

But Senator, we both know this is a longer conversation. I very much appreciate your advocacy for the senator on this issue. I welcome you back to the show to discuss it anytime. Thank you for being with us today, Senator. Appreciate it.

DAINES: Chris, thanks for having me on today. Appreciate it.

CUOMO: Absolutely. Happy New Year to you, Senator Daines, and your family.

Now we're having these discussions, because it is so relevant to what we're doing tomorrow night here on CNN. President Obama joining Anderson Cooper. This is the issue on hand. We're giving you a full hour to hear the president make his case and be tested by our best, Anderson Cooper. He's going to take questions from a live studio audience, a town hall on guns in America with the president, moderated by Coop tomorrow night at 8 p.m., right here on CNN -- Mick.

PEREIRA: Reports that North Korea successfully tested a hydrogen bomb are triggering outrage across the globe and raising concern about that country's nuclear intentions. What kind of threat does it pose for the U.S. and beyond? We'll take a closer look, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)