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Obama to Participate in CNN Town Hall on Guns; Report: Paris Attacks Orders Came from Belgian Operatives; Cruz Outlines Gun Control Policy; Alabama Chief Justice Halts Same-Sex Marriage Licenses. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 07, 2016 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:47] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, President Obama joins Anderson Cooper for an exclusive live town hall on guns in America. The National Rifle Association, America's largest guns rights organization, has declined to take part.

CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joins us now with a preview of what you can expect tonight.

(VIDEO GAP)

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: -- executive actions on guns, give an emotional speech and that be the end of it. They see this as a jumping off point to, as they put it, inspire more passion among people who feel the same way, so that they can then influence lawmakers and maybe even make changes within their own communities.

In a speech this week, the president said his goals for this town hall are to bring together good people on both sides of the issue for an open discussion. He said, to disagree, we don't have to be disagreeable. We don't have to talk past each other, but he believes we do have to have a sense of urgency about this.

So, CNN has invited people on both sides of the issue. But the NRA, as you said, has declined to participate. They call it a PR spectacle organized by the White House. But, in fact, it was not organized by the White House and CNN invited the president to attend -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Very interesting. We'll see how all of that plays out, remind you to tune in tonight for that town hall in guns in America with President Obama, hosted and moderated by Anderson Cooper. It's tonight, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

All right. Chris, back to you in Paris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Mick.

We do have breaking news coming out of Paris, the terror attack that killed 130 people in November, the investigation has been active all along. And we are learning more about who gave the orders for the massacre and where they are right now. We have new reporting ahead.

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[06:36:43] CUOMO: There is breaking news this morning on the investigation into the November terror attacks here in Paris, 130 people murdered. We're learning that two operatives still at large are the ones who gave the orders for the massacre. And that they were in contact with terrorists before, during and after the attacks took place.

This news comes a year to the day since the "Charlie Hebdo" attack that really ushered in just a horrible year in French history.

Here to bring us the details is CNN terrorism analyst and editor in chief of the "CTC Sentinel", Paul Cruickshank.

Paul, always good to be with you.

We've been here for too much of this together. This has been an ongoing investigation. But this is a new idea that they're having now, not one person, two, and that it was an active investigation from abroad. Tell us about it.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Chris, this is a very significant new disclosure from Belgium counterterrorism officials. There are two operatives, senior members of the conspiracy, still at large who were giving orders to the Paris attackers from Brussels, before, during and after the attack. These individuals were identified on December 4 by Belgian authorities on black and white photos, also from CCTV footage.

But this is the first time that their senior role in the conspiracy has been disclosed. They had traveled with Salah Abdeslam, that attacker still on the loose --

CUOMO: The driver that they're still looking for?

CRUICKSHANK: One of the drivers to Hungary, to probably bring up one of the attackers to bring them back to France.

They've also wired some money to Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the ring leader of the attacks here in Paris of the attacks so that he could get lodgings here in Paris after the attack. Belgian operatives telling me they believe these two operatives played a more senior role than Abdelhamid Abaaoud.

We're also learning there were constant communications going back and forth between Belgium on the one side and Paris on the other side in the period during the attacks. There were 25 messages exchanged from a Samsung phone discovered outside of Bataclan with a phone in Belgium, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the ring leader, also in touch with a phone in Belgium.

So, the picture that is emerging are preparations, of planning, the coordination and direction, all going back to Brussels, all going back to Belgium, during these attacks.

CUOMO: And then, where does that take us in terms of there organizational identification? Is it ISIS? Are they affiliated with something else? Are they are just homegrown proximate to France? What is it?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, the plot very much directed by ISIS. They believe these are ISIS fighters from Syria who came all the way back to Europe to carry out these attacks, Chris.

They say that they're close to identifying these two operatives. They don't have their real names, only fake names, fake identity cards used. Also learning some new key details about the bombs itself. The bombs were constructed in Brussels in a safe house in a district in Brussels. They even found a sewing machine in that apartment which they used to stitch together the suicide vests.

They then transported, they believe, the bombs from Belgium to France.

[06:40:03] And they did the final preparations, the final tinkering in a hotel in the outskirts of Paris.

Remember when they found the syringes?

CUOMO: Yes.

CRUICKSHANK: Those were used to secrete, they believe, some detonating explosives into the devices, so essentially the devices would be armed to carry out the attacks.

CUOMO: It's very important to point out. This isn't just intrigue. This is about an ongoing threat investigation.

These explosive belts that they made weren't that sophisticated. You had to know something, but they were using a volatile explosive device. And there could be more of them. And sure enough, we're now tracking down reporting that's going on today, outside of a police station in a local neighborhood, here, and the man who was involved trying to get into a police station did have an explosive belt on him. The police were able to take care of the situation. But this is exactly what they're worried about. And it's happening on one of the most sensitive days.

CRUICKSHANK: Happening on one of the most sensitive days. The key question is, is this another radicalist? Is this somebody inspired by ISIS?

I've been talking to people all across Europe in the last weeks. What they're concerned about right now is copycat attacks. They say based on the radicalized individuals across the continent, that electrified them. They're excited. They want to keep on going.

CUOMO: Paul, thank you very much. We'll be with you throughout the morning.

Because, Alisyn, we've got to track down exactly what happened outside of a police station. This is a big fear. Another man with an explosive belt tried to get into a police station. Obviously, that's making a statement. That's exactly what the authorities are worried about.

This time, we hear police controlled the situation. We'll get more to you as soon as we understand it.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, it is fascinating, the update on what's going on with the investigation there. So, we will have much more from Paris ahead.

But next, back here at home, Donald Trump playing the birther card, this time on his rival Ted Cruz. How is Cruz responding? He talks to CNN, next.

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[06:45:56] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Ted Cruz staying focused on his presidential campaign as he heads off attacks by his rival Donald Trump. CNN caught up with the senator while on the stump in Iowa, where he slammed the president's executive action on guns, saying the action targets law abiding citizens, not the bad guys.

CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash live in Storm Lake, Iowa, with more.

It's so beautiful there.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you. It is beautiful, it is cold and this is exactly what candidates and those of us who cover them in Iowa and the weeks leading up to the caucuses expect.

Ted Cruz is on a 26-day, 28-stop bus tour. He's doing quite well here in Iowa. He insists he's still running as the underdog, he told me that, even as he continues to campaign hard and also hit the president hard on his latest action.

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BASH: We're now driving through Osceola County, I'm not sure if you know this. I looked it up and I saw that, you know, the whole idea that are more cattle than people, it's actually true here.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wow.

BASH: Thirty-eight thousand five hundred heads of cattle and 6,500 people. Is this the Ted Cruz insurance policy for winning Iowa?

CRUZ: Look, this is certainly how we approach the campaign which is grassroots campaigning from the ground up, asking one person at a time for every vote here in Iowa. We're doing the same in New Hampshire, and South Carolina and across the country.

BASH: You know cows can't caucus, right?

CRUZ: Well, you know, actually, I think, at the Democratic caucus, they're welcome.

BASH: Ooh, ouch.

On a much more serious topic, the president's executive action on guns, trying to tighten background checks, purely on the issue, not on the way he did it. What's wrong with making it harder for criminals, for the mentally ill to get guns?

CRUZ: What's wrong with what the president did is it's illegal. He doesn't have the legal authority to ignore the Constitution or ignore the law, and that's what Barack Obama has done over and over again. And it's also focused on the wrong problem.

Look, he's targeting private consensual gun sales between law abiding citizens. This is what Obama gets wrong over and over again, is he can't distinguish between good guys and bad guys. So, following the tragic shooting at Sandy Hook. President Obama could have brought everyone together, could have brought Democrats and Republicans together and said, let's focus on violent criminals, let's focus on the criminally insane, let's come down on them like a ton of bricks. That's what I believe we should do.

Instead what he did is say, let's go after law-abiding citizens, let's undermine the right to keep and bear arms, not of the criminals, but of law-abiding citizens.

BASH: He said he's not doing that --

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CRUZ: But he's not telling the truth. He's not telling the truth.

BASH: If you're elected president, how are you going to make sure, first graders, girls and boys, who are about the same age as your girls --

CRUZ: Yes.

BASH: -- can go to school and not have to worry about being victims of gun violence?

CRUZ: Well, listen, there's an easy answer for that. If you look it the wake of Sandy Hook, I joined with Iowa's own Chuck Grassley in drafting legislation. It was the Grassley-Cruz legislation and it focused on where Obama should have gone, on targeting the bad guys.

So, for example, in the recent years, 2013, there were 54,000 felons and fugitives who tried to illegally buy a firearm. Do you know how many of those the Obama administration prosecuted? Forty- four. Forty-four out of 54,000. That is utterly unacceptable.

You asked about first graders. Do you know that the Obama administration slashed the funding for school safety by roughly $300 million? So, the Grassley-Cruz legislation restored the funding for school safety. That's actually, if you're trying to solve the problem, you direct it at the violent criminals.

What is interesting Grassley-Cruz got a majority supported in the Harry Reid Senate, nine Democrats got the most bipartisan support. You know why it didn't pass a law? Because Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer and the Democrats filibustered it --

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[06:50:06] BASH: And, Michaela, I also talked to him about a pretty stark posting he put on his website shortly after the president talked about guns, saying Obama's going to take your guns. There was a picture of the president in military-style garb. We talked about that.

And also immigration, and the accusations that he flip-flopped not just on illegal immigration policy, but legal immigration. Now that he's on the campaign trail. If you can imagine, Alisyn, he has denied that. We'll talk about that in the 8:00 hour, I believe.

CAMEROTA: OK. We will look forward to that, Dana. And wow, what an Iowa backdrop you have there, showing us just how cold it is today. Dana, we'll see you in a little while. Thank you for that.

Meanwhile, Alabama's chief justice trying to ban gay marriage in his state despite a Supreme Court ruling. We'll dig deeper on that and look back what the Judge Ray Moore told Chris in a memorable interview almost a year ago. That's next.

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CAMEROTA: Now to this developing story out of Alabama. That's where the state's chief justice ordering probate courts to stop issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Judge Roy Moore says the U.S. Supreme Court ruling has led to, quote, "confusion and uncertainty." He claims his probate judges are still bound by a state ban on same-sex marriage, upheld by the Alabama Supreme Court.

Now, you may recall Chris' interview with Judge Moore on NEW DAY almost a year ago. Here's part of that heated exchange.

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ROY MOORE, ALABAMA CHIEF JUSTICE: I will follow the law, sir.

CUOMO: So you'll allow gay marriage when it goes forward if it happens in June?

[06:55:01] MOORE: I said I will follow the law as I interpret it.

CUOMO: That will be the law by any definition.

MOORE: If I can't follow what the Supreme Court says, I'll recuse from the case.

The United States Supreme Court is the final arbiter of this decision.

CUOMO: Yes.

MOORE: They have not made their decision. What you're trying to do is ask me what I would do when they make a decision.

CUOMO: Yes.

MOORE: I'm telling you they should not make a wrong decision, because it would be a wrong decision just like Dred Scott, just like Plessy versus Ferguson, and it's clear those were wrong decisions in the United States Supreme Court. And if you were a justice or a judge in a court after that, you probably would have followed the wrong decision of the United States Supreme Court.

CUOMO: So you think gay marriage is wrong, right? Just say it.

MOORE: I think gay marriage is an alteration of the definition of marriage and the United States Supreme Court does not have the authority -- or the federal courts do not have the authority to interpret a word that disputes the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So, let's talk about what's happening today. Chris is back with us from Paris and joining us here in the studio is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Paul Callan.

Paul, is there any legal basis for what Judge Moore is doing today?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There is a slight basis for him to delay the ruling that they must honor same-sex marriage and issue certificates in Alabama. And this is what he's saying. He's saying that, whenever the Supreme Court hands down a decision, it might not apply to the fact pattern in Alabama.

And this happened, by the way, in the aftermath of Brown versus the Board of Education. You go back into federal court, though, and you get an injunction and they will enforce the law --

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CAMEROTA: I don't get, I thought the Supreme Court was the law of the land. That's the highest court in the land. All the states abide by what the Supreme Court says it is.

CALLAN: They absolutely do. But the problem with the way courts decide things, they decide them on a case-by-case basis, the facts of the case. It might be a fight about whether a clerk has to issue a marriage license, or whether somebody's name goes on the death certificate as the spouse of another gay person.

All of those cases came up to the Supreme Court, but ever conceivable situation wasn't covered. So, he's now saying, well, they didn't say Alabama clerks have to issue this. So I'm not going to authorize it.

Now, what will happen is, now, they'll go into federal court. And they will get the local federal judge to say, that's absurd. The court has enunciated the doctrine that this is a basic tenet of liberty. That everybody has the right to get married and you, Alabama, have to enforce it.

CAMEROTA: Chris, in your interview that we just watched with Roy Moore, he said to you, "If I can't follow what the Supreme Court is doing, I'll recuse from the case." But that's not what he's doing today?

CUOMO: Well, he would parse the language, I suspect, since says that much more legitimate issue than a legitimate legal issue, and say, well, there is no case, I'm just reckoning my own situation in terms of what that case means.

Now, know this, Paul Callan is not only a talented attorney, he's also a mentor of mine. And he's arguing a position that he had would not want to hold in any courtroom. There is no question that the federal Supreme Court ruling applies to Alabama.

Brown versus the Board of Education didn't just apply to Kansas. Yes, there were specific states mentioned that brought that case to be before the Supreme Court. But the supreme law of the land is just that.

The other point that the judge was making, is that well, marriage isn't something for a court to decide. It is absolutely something for a court to decide. This is about legal marriage. Marriage exists almost as a legal proposition for these states. They control marriage. The federal law, as equal protection, would therefore rule over those types of rules about marriage.

So, this isn't about law. It's never been about law. I would suggest. Is this about a political and a religious agenda? And we see this from Roy Moore, not just now, but the Supreme Court judge did this once before, and he got thrown out of office for it about the Ten Commandments.

Also an important note, Alisyn, a federal judge has already spoken about this. A federal judge has already said that the ruling of the Supreme Court obviously applies to Alabama and should be followed by the judges. So what I don't understand is why Roy Moore is putting those probate judges in jeopardy of being in contempt because that's what he's doing.

CAMEROTA: What are these probate judges to do today?

CALLAN: Well, you know, there are 66 probate judges in Alabama. I think many of them will opt not to follow his order. Remember, he's only issuing this order as the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. The entire Supreme Court has not gotten involved in it, the entire Alabama Supreme Court.

So, I think many of them will disagree with him. I have to agree with Chris, you know, I think the judge is totally wrong. But argument that he's going to make is this nitpicking technicality that it doesn't apply to the facts in Alabama.

Remember, Brown versus the Board of Education went on for years.