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Paris Police Shooting One Year after Charlie Hebdo Attack; Trump Steps Up 'Birther' Attack on Cruz; World Leaders Doubt North Korea's H-bomb Claim. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 07, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CALLAN: I have to agree with Chris. You know, I think the judge is totally wrong. But the argument that he's going to make is this nitpicking technicality that it doesn't apply to the facts.

[07:00:10] Now remember, Brown versus the Board of Education went on for years. It was the 1960s. They were still litigating what Brown meant, and -- as clear as Brown was.

CAMEROTA: Paul Callan, thank you.

Chris, thank you. We'll be back with you in a minute. We are following a lot of news this morning, so let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CUOMO: We do have breaking news here out of Paris, a major development on this day, a very important day in French history. It was one year ago that the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks happened. And now what was feared most on this occasion may be unfolding right now in Paris.

And that's why we are here. You see Alisyn and Michaela are in New York. Let's get to this breaking news right now. We have Jim Bittermann with us. We're very lucky to have you because of your contacts.

We hear that the incident was involving a police station and a man who came. There was a suggestion about what kind of weaponry he may have had. And that he was saying "Allah akbar," which as we all know, an activated phrase for Islamic extremists.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CHIEF EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: None of this is confirmed, Chris. In fact, what we're hearing from police sources and from the spokesman for the interior ministry said that apparently someone tried to get in the commissary at the 18th Arondissement, a fairly socially mixed neighborhood, if one can say that; that somebody came at the police station, tried to break in with a knife, armed with a knife. And that he was stopped by a policeman who shot him dead.

And they are now in the process of bringing in a demining machine which is an explosive --anti-explosive robot to look over what the man was carrying. And there's some suspicion he either had a suicide belt with him or some kind of explosive device. But they're looking into that right now. CUOMO: All right. And now, in terms of -- this was the threat,

right? This was the worry about having a copycat occasion. We know that different terrorist organizations, certainly, ISIS has been encouraging this. What are the authorities saying about where they are in terms of their level of ability to defend against?

BITTERMANN: Well, on this particular instance they're saying, well, look, this worked perfectly. The police shot the guy before he got a chance to come into the police station.

However, I mean, I think this is really the thing that is rubbing people here a little bit crazy. You know, you have these folks who can perpetrate something like this individually. They don't have to be ordered from headquarters. Or somewhere out in Syria, or wherever. They can just on their own take their own initiative. And it's very difficult to spot head on.

CUOMO: We've also got Paul Cruickshank in here. Obviously, you've been breaking the news, as Jim has been following along, as well that the investigation as to who did these horrible attacks in November has expanded that there are two people still at large. And now this is the concern about having mines the large that want to do terrible things to people in France and elsewhere in the Europe. And let's be honest, anywhere in the world right now, this situation.

Let's assume that he doesn't have a good belt on. Let's assume he's a phony, this guy, that he just wanted to get involved with it. That's still part of the threat that's discernible, right?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Absolutely, Chris. Officials are telling one of their biggest concerns, copycat attacks that the radicalized community here in France and other countries, they've been energized massively by what they saw play out here in Paris.

In November, they're very, very concerned about this threat of ISIS- inspired attacks. We've also seen ISIS operatives in Syria and Iraq directly instigate attacks here in Paris, reaching out to individuals here over social media and calling them to launch attacks against various targets. All of that adding to the threat nature here in Europe.

In France alone, there are 10,500 individuals, according to the authorities, who've been flagged by the authorities for Islamist extremism. Sympathy with violent extremism. That's a very large number. Multiples of that throughout Europe. This is an unprecedented threat they're dealing with now across the continent.

The prime minister of Belgium, just before the new year after those fireworks were cancelled in Sean Michel (ph), said this is an entirely new era in the history of Europe. Europeans have to do more. And it's intolerable that the citizens of Europe can't go to the cinema, can't go out without fear of being killed.

CUOMO: And sure enough, it's playing out right now. Jim and Paul, stay with me. And to be clear, we're dealing with news right now that we're trying to track down, that there was an incident at a police station here in Paris. A man we're being told may have been coming with some kind of a weapon, maybe a knife, tried to get in. Said the talismanic phrase of "Allah akbar" that obviously triggers a fear of terrorism. He was taken out by police. He is dead. They now have the explosives experts there to see whether or not he was carrying a device that could have been explosive.

[07:05:01] So we have Paul Cruickshank. We also want to bring in with Jim Bittermann here, Jean-Paul Rouiller. He's the director of the Geneva Center for Training, an analyst of terrorism and former senior Swiss counterterrorism official. And as you've been hearing us talk, Jean-Paul, this is the concern of a copycat. Even if this man turns out to be a phony, it doesn't take much to get involved in this, and it could have very dangerous implications.

JEAN-PAUL ROUILLER, DIRECTOR, GENEVA CENTER FOR TRAINING: Yes, it could have very dangerous implications, but what you think when you say copycat attack, with that guy, it was exactly the same scenario that we saw last year in November. In November -- no, it was not last year. It was two years ago, in November 2014, when a guy, armed with a knife, tried to enter into the precinct and tried to kill police officers.

So this is nothing new, and this is notably what has just occurred today in Paris.

CUOMO: So, we're hearing that it was a French interior minister spokesman from that department that said the "Allah akbar" was said, and that obviously set off the urgency for police there.

Jean-Paul, let me start with -- say with you on this. In terms of how you deal with a copycat, I mean, is it an impossibility to stop all of these? That's what we've come to realize in the United State. You can't stop them all. What do you do to focus efforts against such a broad threat?

ROUILLER: In that specific case, and again, I mean, that's going to be a totally different scenario if he really was just having a knife or if he was having an explosive belt. That's going to be two totally different things with a totally different concept of implications.

But let's assume he was just having a knife. And this could be the kind of guy who just wakes up in the morning and who decides that today is going to be his day.

And in such a case, I mean, there's absolutely no way any police or any intelligence agency can foresee such a thing and can stop it. I mean, there's absolutely no way you can do anything to prevent such kind of actions. And I think Europe has realized that now.

CUOMO: And, you know, Jean-Paul is raising an interesting point that you have raised also, Jim, in helping me get ready for the coverage today, that this is something new for the Parisian society to deal with, that you're not going able to stop all of these. That there is an ongoing threat that you can't just put out of your mind. If -- let's deal with this man at the minimum, given the information

we have right now. Let's say a deranged man with a knife. Until we know more, that's certainly what he proposed when he said what he said in front of a police station. What does that mean in terms of how it impacts life?

BITTERMANN: And you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about what took place in Israel, where we've seen knife-wielding attackers repeatedly go after civilians. And there's very, very little one of the best security apparatus in the world can do to prevent that. And I think this is the same thing they said here.

There's very, very little that can be done to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Of course, that really terrifies people. People are afraid to go out in gatherings and whatnot. This today, I think, will just really set people back on edge again, after the attacks of November 13.

CUOMO: Paul, when we were here after "Charlie Hebdo," you know, Jim was very instructive in saying how, look, you know, this was a targeted attack. In the Parisians' minds, this was targeted. This was about "Charlie Hebdo." This isn't about all of us. Let's get back to life as soon as possible.

Then in November happens, you see it could be anyone, anywhere, at any time, which is what we've become painfully familiar with in the United States. And now you have this: random one-offs who are just trying to do anything disruptive. All different threats, all different capabilities to try to stop them, and they get more difficult to stop as they get more simple.

CRUICKSHANK: Very difficult to stop. As Jean-Paul was talking about. How do you tell when somebody is going to go from radical thoughts to radical actions.

A radical thought is not a crime in our society. But, obviously, radical action is. So it's very, very difficult for authorities. They can't just go and lock up everybody they think is radical.

But the biggest threat is this ISIS directive threat now, though. ISIS is pivoting towards international terrorism. This is a group that's the richest terrorist group in history. It's got control of all that territory in Syria and Iraq, still also in Libya. Six thousand European extremists that have gone to Iraq to join with them; 1,500 have come back. And this is an unprecedented threat that the European security agencies are now facing.

CUOMO: Now, let's just deal with the information that we have. It's not naked speculation that the man might have had an explosive device, because we do know that they have explosive assets on the ground examining the situation.

That takes it into a different phase, not just in lethality, but also playing into the investigation. Paul brought us new information about this this morning. That these two men are still at large, that they believe were the sophisticated part of the planning for what happened here in November, including finding sewing machines that were involved in the stitching of those explosive belts. That's the kind of know- how that you need to root out immediately. Hopefully, it's not in play again here in this report this morning.

[07:10:08] CRUICKSHANK: Exactly. And these are sort of disturbing new details about the Paris plot in November. That it turns out that Abdelhamid Abaaoud, he was the ringleader on the ground here in Paris. But it appears he was answering to two more people in the conspiracy who were in Belgium at that time on the phone with various of the Paris attackers and who are still at large. They feel that they're close to identifying them right now, but they are still at large, still possibly dangerous, still possibly planning a new round of attacks here in Europe.

This is going to be a very worrying year, 2016, right across the continent. And as ISIS loses some territory in Syria and Iraq, I think they're likely to accelerate attacks, because they want to lash out and also to demonstrate to their supporters around the world that they can still launch these operations, that they can still, in their words, remain and expand.

CUOMO: All right. Jean Paul, thank you very much.

Jim, are you going to help find...

(CROSSTALK)

BITTERMANN: One more thing, and that is that one of the people, one of the things that people have been complaining about there hasn't been an adequate investigation of what the police knew all the way along, from "Charlie Hebdo" through November 13 and after November 13, what they've known. There hasn't been a parliamentary apparatus. A full investigation to look at all this information to see if things are being missed and what can be done further.

CUOMO: So, they're going to be dealing with the long-range implications. We're going to be dealing with the specific threat this morning. Jim, nobody's got better contacts than you. So Jim Bittermann, Paul Cruickshank, we're going to stay on this.

Jean-Paul Rouiller, thank you very much.

Alisyn, when we get more information, I'll come back to you with it.

CAMEROTA: OK. Please do, Chris. We will stay on top of that breaking news out of Paris.

Back here at home, developments on the campaign trail. Donald Trump calling on Senator Ted Cruz to prove that he is a natural-born citizen. And Trump offering a suggestion on how to do that. Trump also giving his views on how to handle North Korea and gun violence in America. Trump did all of this in a sit-down with CNN's Wolf Blitzer. And joining us now in the studio is Wolf Blitzer.

Hi, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Nice to be here in New York.

CAMEROTA: Great to have you here in New York. Trump went further in his interview with you than he had previously about Ted Cruz and what he suggests Ted Cruz do. What did he tell you?

BLITZER: He said he likes Ted Cruz. He wants to help Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has got to resolve this. He's got to go to a federal judge ASAP, as soon as possible. He got to make sure that he's legally eligible to serve as president of the United States, according to the requirements of the United States Constitution. He says that Cruz should do this. He can resolve it quickly. Just go ahead and do it.

CAMEROTA: OK. You pressed him on all of this. So let's watch your interview with Donald -- well, just one more minute -- we have it now. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about another issue in the news right now. Senator Ted Cruz, he's your main rival in Iowa, according to all the polls right now. All of a sudden, this whole issues of the fact that he was born in Canada has come up, whether or not he's a natural-born citizen. You know, the Constitution says no person except a natural-born citizen shall be eligible to the office of president. Do you believe Senator Ted Cruz is a natural-born citizen?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know, to be honest, and I like him a lot. And I don't like the issue. I don't like even bringing it up. And, you know, it wasn't me that brought it up. It was "The Washington Post" doing an interview...

BLITZER: They asked you...

Trump: One of the questions they asked me was this question. And, you know, they went with it, and I wasn't very aggressive with the answer, except one thing. You can't have somebody running if the Democrats are going to, at some point -- and one of them threatened to bring a suit a long time ago.

But how can you have a nominee running, you know, against a Democrat, whoever it maybe, probably Hillary Clinton, because she'll probably escape the e-mail problem, which is disgusting that she's able to. Because other people have, from doing far less, have had very, very major consequences. It's been terrible, but it's probably going to be Hillary.

So how do you run against the Democrat, whoever it may be, and you have this hanging over your head if they bring a lawsuit?

Would you consider a preemptive strike to destroy North Korea's nuclear capabilities?

TRUMP: No, because China has total control over them, and we have total control over China, if we had people that knew what they're doing, which we don't. We have no leadership in this country. We have China because of trade. They're sucking our money out of us.

They're taking our money like, like candy from a baby. And China can come out, and frankly, they will -- you know, they say they don't have that much control over North Korea. They have total control. Because without China they wouldn't be able to eat.

So China has to get involved, and China should solve that problem. And we should put pressure on China to solve the problem.

BLITZER: Because as you know, there are, what, almost a million North Korean troops north of the Demilitarized Zone, almost a million South Korean troops south of the Demilitarized Zone. Seoul, the capitol...

TRUMP: We have 28,000 soldiers right in the middle.

BLITZER: Right in the middle.

TRUMP: By the way, we get paid nothing. We get paid peanuts.

BLITZER: Would you pull them up out?

TRUMP: Well, I would want South Korea to pay us a lot of money. We're doing a lot of -- what are we doing? I just saw that 4,000 television sets, 4,000, they come from South Korea. South Korea is a money machine. They pay us peanuts. We're defending them.

[07:15:07] And I have many friends from South Korea. They buy my apartments. I do business with them, but South Korea should pay us and pay us very substantially for protecting them.

BLITZER: So you want China, basically, to handle the North Korean problem.

TRUMP: They can handle it so easily.

BLITZER: You heard the president of the United States: 30,000 Americans die each year from gun violence, about half suicides.

What would you do right now to prevent that kind of slaughter?

TRUMP: OK. The first thing I'd do is protect the Second Amendment. The second thing I'd do is I wouldn't use executive orders to do this. You've got to get people -- you know, our country was founded on the basis that you're supposed to negotiate back and forth with different members of different parties, and you come to a conclusion through negotiation and compromise. You don't go and so -- just keep signing orders.

And all he's doing is taking chunks out of the Second Amendment. That won't happen. You know...

BLITZER: You don't want -- you don't want convicted felons or mentally ill people to be able to go to a gun -- a gun -- any place, online or whatever, and get access to a gun.

TRUMP: Well, when you say any place, we have very strong laws right now on the books, but the federal government, for example...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Gun shows for example, you don't want bad apples to get access to guns.

TRUMP: I know. But when you get into the gun shows, it's a slippery slope. That stops a father from giving his child a gun.

BLITZER: What about online purchases?

TRUMP: Here's -- let me just go a step further. Because we have to...

BLITZER: Background checks make sense, right?

TRUMP: We have to protect the Second Amendment. We have no choice. We have to do that. It's very important. I believe in it from a safety standpoint.

BLITZER: The President says he believes in the Second Amendment, too.

TRUMP: Well, I don't think he does, because he's -- and Hillary's a disaster. Hillary wants to take the guns away from everybody. I mean, Hillary's going to be worse than Obama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: OK. Fascinating to hear him give all of those answers. He was more specific with you on lots of things than he had been on the past.

BLITZER: He was certainly more specific on this whole birther issue with Senator Ted Cruz. He's doing really well in Iowa right now. It's less than four weeks until the Iowa caucuses. All of a sudden, this is a whole issue. I just noticed; I was looking down here. Donald Trump just tweeted, just a few moments ago, "It was a very wise move that Ted Cruz renounced his Canadian citizenship 18 months ago. Senator John McCain is certainly no friend of Ted."

Because Senator McCain is also now saying it's an open question whether or not he fits the requirement of the natural-born citizen to serve as president.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BLITZER: He thinks that should be resolved. And the fact is, about 18 months ago, Ted Cruz did renounce formally dual citizenship, U.S./Canadian citizenship. He said he didn't even know he had Canadian citizenship. He found out he did, and then he formally took legal steps to renounce that Canadian citizenship.

CAMEROTA: And politically, it's one thing for Donald Trump to insinuate these things, but then for John McCain to jump on the bandwagon does feel like it lends it more legitimacy. Here's what John McCain said in a radio interview yesterday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I do not know the answer to that. I know it came up in my race, because I was born in Panama, but I was born in the canal zone, which is a territory. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was a territory when he ran in 1964.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were born on a base, too, weren't you?

MCCAIN: Yes, it was a U.S. military base.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MCCAIN: That's different than being born on foreign soil. So they think -- I think there is a question. I'm not a constitutional scholar on that, but I think it's worth looking into. I don't think its illegitimate to look into it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Wolf, what do you think is behind John McCain raising this? Is this about bad blood between him and Ted Cruz?

BLITZER: I think Senator McCain did point out correctly that, when he was running for president, there were some questions asked. He was born on a U.S. territory. The U.S. canal zone, which was then controlled, owned by the U.S. at that time. The U.S. subsequently gave it up. It was a U.S. military base. His father was an admiral and serving over there. That's why he was born in the U.S. Panama Canal zone. It did come up at that time.

I don't think he's any great friends with Senator Cruz, to put it bluntly. But I do think that this was an issue that was discussed. I remember back in 2007, 2008, when he was running, everybody just assumed he was a natural-born citizen, because his parents were American citizens. He was born in U.S. territory, which was then the canal zone on a U.S. military base.

CAMEROTA: Yes, possibly a more apt comparison, though more ancient, is George Romney, Mitt Romney's father. This also was raised. He was born in Mexico. And this did end up tripping up his presidential campaign in 1968.

BLITZER: I'm not sure how much it wound up tripping up. He was the governor of Michigan, very popular Republican, George Romney. His parents were missionaries. They were serving in Mexico. He was born in Mexico. I guess it sort of came up. He never got very far on the race. So he didn't get the nomination. But it was discussed at that time. Is he a natural-born citizen?

CAMEROTA: Right. So I mean, I guess the question is does this dog Ted Cruz? Will this, in the future? Is this a -- is this a two-day story, and we'll move on to some other distraction? Or has the seed been planted?

[07:20:10] BLITZER: Well, there are, as Trump points out, some Democrats -- Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson of Florida, for example, a liberal Democrat, he has said he will go to court, federal court to sue, to file charges to determine whether or not Ted Cruz is eligible if he's elected president of the United States.

So, Trump says resolve it now. Don't wait for Representative Alan Grayson to go to court and see what happens. Because that -- that could be a long, long adjudication. Trump makes a fair point on that.

CAMEROTA: So is Ted Cruz supposed to get in front of this or sort of laugh it off as he has been?

BLITZER: I don't think he should laugh it off. I think he should resolve it. There should -- there should be some sort of formal determination. And as everyone points out, the U.S. Supreme Court has never formally taken up the issue to define what is a natural-born citizen?

CAMEROTA: It's just incredible. We -- many analysts thought this was settled. But somehow, Donald Trump has a way of injecting a new angle against his rivals, and then sure enough, it takes off.

BLITZER: I think that the weight -- all of the legal scholars I've spoken to, the weight of the evidence is that Ted Cruz is on solid ground. But there's a little bit of a loophole. There's a little bit of an opening that could be exploited. And that's what Donald Trump, obviously, right now, and John McCain and others are doing.

CAMEROTA: Wolf, it was a great interview. Great to have you here on set with us. So obviously, we'll be talking about this all morning.

Also be sure to tune in tonight, because President Obama joins Anderson Cooper for an exclusive live town-hall event on guns in America. The president will discuss his executive actions on guns. Also, interestingly, he will take questions from the live studio audience. Those always prove provocative. So a town hall on guns in America with President Obama, moderated by Anderson tonight, 8 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. We are following breaking news out of Paris. A man shot and killed by police outside of a police station. That man reportedly wearing an explosive belt. We'll have much more live from Paris coming up next.

Also, world leaders growing more skeptical of North Korea's claims that it tested a hydrogen bomb. We'll have a live report from the area for you, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:26:09] PEREIRA: World leaders are casting serious doubts on North Korea's claims of testing a hydrogen bomb. Now South Korea says it's planning to assume propaganda broadcasts into North Korea.

We turn live now to CNN's Paula Hancocks, live in Seoul, South Korea for us -- Paula. PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Michaela, South Korea has

announced one of its -- the repercussions from this -- this nuclear test. It's said that North Korea would take -- pay the price if it went ahead with this test.

And now, they've decided they had will go ahead with these propaganda broadcasts. Now, they stopped them back in August, because the two sides were getting on pretty well at that point. Obviously, that's not the case anymore.

And so these propaganda broadcasts will start once again on Friday at noon, at midday. Now, they're really annoyed, Pyongyang. They are extremely irritated by them. It's propaganda talking about how wonderful the South is and how dreadful the North is, effectively. And they also broadcast K-pop songs. And so we know that this is going to ratchet up tensions, and it will annoy North Korea.

So just one of the steps they're taking. We heard yesterday, the U.S. officials. They're saying everyone around the world is saying, it's not consistent with what we can see with a hydrogen bomb. There really is no one beyond North Korea at this point that's saying that they believe this was a hydrogen bomb.

Some analysts saying maybe an element of hydrogen, but not the actual H-bomb, which was hundreds of times more powerful than this simple atomic bomb.

We know the U.N. Is meeting, as well. They met on Wednesday. Those sanctions are in the pipeline. We believe, certainly, all sides want to carry out the sanctions. It will be interesting to see what China and Russia make of that, to traditional allies of North Korea.

And of course, China, South Korea and Japan are trying to find some radioactive particles to test. To find out what this nuclear test was, but they can't find it at this point. They have come up blank, saying there is no radiation in the atmosphere at this point.

Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Paula. Thanks so much for the update.

We do have some breaking news for you on those trapped miners in Lansing, New York. Emergency crews rescuing the first four of the 17 trapped salt miners. The group stuck in an elevator 900 feet below ground at the Cargill salt mine.

A Cargill official says the miners were starting their shift when an elevator malfunctioned. No one was injured. And emergency crews have been in constant communication with them. Cargill says they do not know how long the full rescue of all 17 will take. We'll keep you posted.

PEREIRA: And we are watching the breaking news out of Paris. A man wielding a knife outside a Paris police station shot dead. We're showing you some live pictures right now outside that police station there in Paris. You can see a great deal of police presence. Law enforcement obviously combing the area. That it happened in northern Paris. We're going to take you back out there live to Chris, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)