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Marking a Year Since Charlie Hebdo Attack; Reviewing the Obama Townhall Meeting on Guns; Trump Remarks on Second Amendment at Vermont Rally; North Korea H-Bomb Claims Examined; Latest on Paris Terror Attacks Investigation. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired January 08, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- anniversary here marked Friday, January 8, 6:00 in the East, Alisyn and Mik are in New York. I am here in Paris of painful anniversary here marked by another scare, an attempt to attack a police station by an apparent ISIS sympathizer.

[06:00:15] The thwarted attack came not just a year to the day since Charlie Hebdo but nearly at the exact same moment as that attack on the magazine. Now, thankfully, it wound up being an empty threat. But we have new proof this morning of the real threat to Paris and beyond. The number of people involved in these attacks just jumped. We have troubling reporting ahead, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris. We will be checking in with you, obviously throughout the entire show about all of that. But first, we begin with President Obama taking his case for gun control directly to the American people in a town hall last night here on CNN.

The president addressing some of its critics and slamming so called conspiracy theories. So did he chang any minds?

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is live at the White House with our top story. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. President Obama took four questions on each side of this issue. These people's compelling stories really speak to the complexity and emotion of this. I mean you had victims of crime who are against gun regulation, victims who are for it.

But one place you do get a lot of overlap is that one tough question, what are additional steps actually going to do to prevent violence?

President Obama addressed the crowd split on the issue with a surprising story from his time on the campaign trail, going through rural Iowa. He says the first lady brought up the subject of guns for protection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D), U.S. PRESIDENT: At one point, Michelle turned to me and she said, you know, if I was living in a farmhouse where the sheriff's department is pretty far away, and somebody can just turn off the highway and come up to the farm, I'd want to have a shotgun or a rifle to make sure that I was protected my family was protected. And she was absolutely right.

KOSINSKI: He faced tough questions from familiar faces, Taya Kyle, wife of murdered American sniper, Chris Kyle, Mark Kelly, husband of former congresswoman and shooting victim, Gabby Giffords, Kimberly Corbin is a rape victim and NRA.

KIMBERLY CORBAN, COLLEGE RAPE SURVIVOR: I have been unspeakably victimized once already and I refuse to let that happen again to myself or my kids. So why can't your administration see these restrictions that you're putting to make it harder for me to own a gun or harder for me to take that where I need to be is actually just making my kids and I less safe?

OBAMA: There's nothing that we've proposed that would make it harder for you to purchase a firearm.

KOSINSKI: A conspicuous no-show here, the NRA itself.

OBAMA: If you listen to the rhetoric, it is so over the top and so overheated, I'm happy to talk to them. But the conversation has to be based on facts and truth and what we're actually proposing, not some, you know, imaginary fiction in which Obama is trying to take away your guns.

KOSINSKI: It was the Sandy Hook shooting that made President Obama uncharacteristically emotional this week. Now he watched himself make that speech.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I think a lot of people were surprised by that moment.

OBAMA: I was, too, actually. I visited Newtown two days after that happened. So it was still very raw. It's the only time I've ever seen Secret Service cry on duty. It continues to haunt me. It was one of the worst days of my presidency.

KOSINSKI: And as Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz now campaigns with this image of the president alongside the words Obama wants your guns, many conservatives were riled, offend by his calling that kind of rhetoric a conspiracy, which he somewhat testily defended.

COOPER: Is it fair to call it a conspiracy?

OBAMA: Well, yes.

COOPER: I mean, there's a lot of people who really believe this deeply -- that they just don't trust you.

OBAMA: I'm sorry, Cooper, yes, it is fair to call it a conspiracy. What are you saying? Are you suggesting that the notion that we are creating a plot to take everybody's guns away so that we can impose martial law is a conspiracy? Yes, that is a conspiracy. I would hope that you would agree with that. Is that controversial?

(END VIDEO CLIP) KOSINSKI: And the president repeatedly made the point if we're going to regulate cars to reduce traffic deaths, if we're going to regulate medicines, even toys, why would we not do the same with guns? Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Michelle. While President Obama was making his case for tougher gun laws, Donald Trump was pushing his own plan to protect the Second Amendment at a rally in Vermont, Trump vowed to make gun-free zones in schools a thing of the past.

The event was held blocks from Bernie Sanders campaign headquarters and was interrupted by protesters. Athena Jones joins us live from Washington with that part of the story. Athena.

[06:04:59] ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. It was interesting the split screen moment with these two events going on at the same time. The president, of course, touting what he calls reasonable comments and measures to try to reduce gun (inaudible). Trump, of course, blasting the president's moves and making a pledge of his own, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what a gun-free zone is to a sicko? That's bait. That's like gun-free zone. I will get rid of gun-free zones on schools. And you have to. And on military bases, my first day, it gets sign. OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Now, this point about the dangers of gun-free zones is something that Trump likes to say off. And he also likes to say had the people in Paris or San Bernardino been armed, there would have been a lot fewer victims in those terror attacks.

Meanwhile that rally last night was notable because it was held in the heart of Bernie Sanders' territory. He's, of course, the other candidate on this race on the Democratic side who draws huge crowds and really passionate and dedicated fans. Sanders, of course, represents Vermont in the Senate. And he was in fact mayor of Burlington which is the town where that rally was held. And the rally was interrupted several times by protesters, at least eight times.

Many of them were wearing Bernie Sanders t-shirts shouting things like "This is not Vermont." "Trump ruins Vermont," "Get Trump out, "Trump was clearly annoyed calling out security to get the protesters out of there. So some interesting moments last night. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: That was raucous. OK, Athena, thanks so much for setting all that up. Here to discuss it, CNN senior political analyst and Editorial Director of the National Journal Ron Brownstein and CNN political commentator and political anchor of Time Warner Cable News, Errol Louis. Thanks so much for being here. Let's talk about the town hall meeting with President Obama. Lots of people beyond conspiracy theorists think the president is somehow trying to curtail gun rights. Errol, did the president say anything or do you want anything to change minds last night?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't think he intended to, to be honest of you. I mean there's maybe 20 percent I think if you look at the poll that are sort of undecided on some of the stuff. But, really, the positions have been hardened for quite a long time about whether or not gun safety measures should be implemented nationally.

The president I think is playing beyond his presidency. I read that last night's event as sort of legacy event, him sort of saying, look, I'm not going to get this done during my presidency, not with this Congress but here are the lines of argument that I hope somebody will pick up and carry forward after this presidency is over.

CAMEROTA: Ron, the polls are not necessarily what you would imagine they are. Last night's CNN released new polling on the president's executive actions. Look at this. Views on Obama's executive orders on guns, 67 percent of the country -- the respondents at least favor what he's trying to do.

So, you would think that those numbers would be flipped given all of the, you know, noise around this. 67 percent. And let me show you one more interesting thing.

RON BROWNSTEIN, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, NATIONAL JOURNAL: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Among gun owners and non-gun owners. Even gun owners, 57 percent agree, not necessarily with the president's tactic of executive action but with the outcome, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, you know, we talked about this earlier in the week, Alisyn. The public opinion about gun control is conflicted, it is closely divided and it is somewhat contradictory. As we said earlier in the week, there is majority support for most of these individual measures, like expanding background checks, like reinstalling the assault weapon ban that lapsed after Bill Clinton's presidency.

On the other hand, when you asked broader philosophical question, is it more important to protect gun rights or to restrain gun ownership, you get a 50/50 divided. You got one step further and ask whether you think gun control is going to significantly reduce violence. Most people say no. The majority is on the other side.

So, the public opinion is kind of on a high wire here. And my view has been gun control functions more as a cultural issue now than really about the particulars. I mean, it really kind of reinforces the cultural divide at the heart of our politics today with republicans depending on culturally conservative whites, especially non-urban, Democrats depending on this coalition of younger people, minorities, social liberal whites particularly in urban areas. And by way, that divide separates not only attitude toward guns but experience with guns. A gun ownership is much more common among Republicans than among Democrats, much more common in rural areas than urban areas. Now, 40 percent of Americans overall owned guns. But within the Republican coalition, gun ownership is much more common and that's where you see -- I think you saw that so vividly last night, that cultural separation...

CAMEROTA: Yeah.

BROWNSTEIN: ... on this issue, the extent to the which different parts of the country experience this in very different ways.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. President Obama has an op-ed in the New York Times today. Let me read for you what it says, "I will not campaign for, vote for or support any candidate even in my own party, who does not support common sense gun reform. And if the 90 percent of Americans who do support common sense gun reforms join me, we will elect the leadership we deserve."

Errol, is he talking of Bernie Sanders here? I mean, obviously, Hillary Clinton says that she wants gun reforms. So who is this...

LOUIS: I think the president is trying to do sort of the flip side of what the NRA does. The NRA, they don't care what your position is on same-sex marriage or anything else. If you're good on guns, you're good with us, which is why they supported Bernie Sanders with an A plus rating in the past.

[06:10:11] What the president is trying to do, though, I think it will probably not work. I mean Ron puts his finger on an interesting point. For a broad conservative coalition on a wide range of issues, to hold them together, gun ownership ends up sort of checking all of the boxes. You get people on rural issues. You get people on all kinds of other issues.

And so people will going to fight politically to sort of hold that coalition together. That's where a lot of the scare tactics come from.

On the other hand, for the Democrats, the progressives, for President Obama and his coalition after his presidency, it's not existential. You don't have to hold people together on just this one issue. Or he's going to try but I don't know that he's going to succeed.

CAMEROTA: Ron, the NRA declined CNN's invitation to be part of the town hall last night. They say they don't want to engage in a public conversation or really any conversation with President Obama about this.

But the head of the NRA did go on Fox last night. So let me play for you what he said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS COX, NRA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Did we participate in CNN's event night? No, we didn't. We were offered one prescreen question. Megyn, I know that, you know, send your questions over the White House so I'd rather have a conversation with you that's intellectually honest than sit through a lecture and get one opportunity to ask a prescreened question.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Does it make sense to meet with him?

COX: And talk about what? This president can talk about background checks all day long. But that's nothing more than a distraction away from the fact that he can't keep us safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Hey, Ron, just very quickly. The way this town hall meetings work, I've been involved in many of this.

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

CAMEROTA: You do ask participants what they are going to ask before hand to make sure that you're not all asking the same question, that 100 people aren't asking the same question, you have diversity of thought. It's not just sort of manage their message, but in any event, the NRA decided not to be a part of it.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I think whatever the reasons on the town hall. I think the broader point is NRA doesn't feel the need to negotiate with President Obama. The legislative politics of this are very difficult for Democrats, mostly because of the small state bias in the Senate.

As we said, gun ownership is perceived differently in rural states. And it is very hard. You can buy in the small state every state getting two senators with the filibuster, it is very hard for Democrats to get to 60 on this at any point.

If you go back to the last time, Alisyn, people voted on this in 2013 in the Senate, you assign each state's population to each senators. The 55 senators who supported the expanded background checks represented 199 million people. The 45 senators opposed that represented 120 million people. It didn't pass.

And so I think the NRA is very confident they can block this legislatively. They're also probably pretty assure that they're not going to change its view on executive action.

So in some sense, we are at that stalemate. It is worth noting in the past they have been more willing to dialogue in the 90s. But I think it is a reflection of the hardening of our politics and the difficulty we are having bridging this divide and finding an answer that respects kind of the cultural assessments and the different ways people are experiencing guns in both urban and royal areas of America.

CAMEROTA: Ron Brownstein, Errol Louis, thank you so much for the conversation.

LOUIS: Thank you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Michaela?

PEREIRA: All right, tensions on the Korean Peninsula ratcheting up once again. South Korea resuming loud speaker propaganda broadcasts across the border this morning in response to the North claims that it tested a hydrogen bomb earlier this week.

All while Pyongyang celebrates the 33rd birthday of its reclusive leader. CNN's Will Ripley live in the North Korean capital Pyongyang with more. Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, the frontpage of North Korea's main state-run newspaper shows this picture of the supreme leader Kim Jong-Un signing the order to test what the North Korean regime claims is an H-bomb, though that claim has been disputed by many outside observers around the world.

We visited a science center in Pyongyang that just opened within the past week. And this building is actually shaped like a joint atom. And in the middle of the building is a rocket that was used to launch a satellite, a replica of a rocket used to launch a satellite into orbit back in 2012. There were also replicas of North Korean weapons, tanks and planes.

And there was a whole section in the library focusing on the nuclear technology that this country continues to develop. So it just goes to show how engrained this is in daily life here in North Korea.

Meanwhile, on the demilitarized zone, South Korea has now been blasting that propaganda across the border, using large loud speakers for some eight hours. This has been considered in the past an act of war by the regime here in Pyongyang. How they're going to respond we still don't know because there is no official statement, no official response coming out yet. But some government officials I've been talking to here say they wouldn't be surprised if troops are brought to the border as a show of force from the north to respond to what's happening in the south. Michaela.

PEREIRA: Well, we're really lucky to have you there. Thank you for that reporting. We'll tune back in back you a little later.

All right, let's turn back to Chris. He's got some breaking news for us from Paris. Chris?

[06:15:03] CUOMO: Yeah, Mik, we have two big developments. I mean there's certainly new information coming in about the November attacks, some confirmation for investigators, about what they believed about the planning, an apartment, fingerprints for this man they're tracking Abdel Abdeslam.

However, there is also an unknown. People on the run that really expand the scope of that. We're going to talk about that.

But there's also an urgency about what happened yesterday. Many want to dismiss this as a deranged man who tried to get into the police station. But there is more and more cause to slow down on that and deeper examination of what might have happened.

CNN Senior European Correspondent Jim Bitterman joins me now with breaking details and in full disclosure. I thought, well, they're going to find out that this was a deranged guy. When you're saying that as you try to track the reporting, there are more and more unknowns here that are troubling about this man. How so?

JIM BITTERMAN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Totally. The Paris prosecutors in charge of terrorism investigations added to it is sort of confusion around this morning by saying if they really don't know who this guy is. That he was picked up on a minor criminal charge, declared himself to be a Moroccan and gave a name and what not in the south of France a couple years ago. That's how they connected the first identity that came out.

But now, they found that on his person, on the body, there was a note describing him as a Tunisian. The people in the neighborhood they thought he was Algerian. It was described as kind of a homeless guy.

And what they really depending on now and they have -- in terms of the investigation is this cellphone that was found yesterday which had a German sim card in it. So, you know, there's also some kind of -- something very suspicious, shows some kind of sophistication in any case. They're hoping they'll get information from the telephone.

But let's take a look at what we do know so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMAN: A terrorism investigation under way in Paris in the wake of yet another attack, just the latest to (inaudible) the French capital over the past year. This one foiled outside of a police station in northern Paris, a man brandishing a butcher knife shouting "Allah Akbar. God is great," and carrying a fake explosive device.

The man who is identity is not yet been confirmed shot and killed by police as he attempted to enter the police station.

In the attacker's pocket, the black ISIS flag printed on a piece of paper, along with a hand written note in Arabic claiming responsibility for the attack and pledging allegiance to the Islamic State. The man's body inspected by a robot to determine whether the explosives were fake.

The incident taking place just before noon nearly one year to the minute after a gunman stormed the offices of the french satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo. It was the beginning of a series of attacks that killed 17 people at the newspaper and a kosher supermarket. And it came not even two months since attackers lay the siege to the French capital massacring 130 people at a concert hall, cafes and a football match in and around Paris.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMAN: And the prosecutor said this morning, Chris, that this illustrates, a good illustration exactly the kind of problem they're facing, the kind of terrorism threats that can be sophisticated, heavy operations like we saw back in November 13th. It's a guy with a meat cleaver like we saw yesterday.

CUOMO: Just -- and may be a simple threat, easy to dismiss but the more they like at it, the more it goes to the difficulty of identifying this in advance. Jim Bittermann, thank you very much. Stay with us for the rest of the show. There's a lot to talk about here.

Alisyn, I'll get back to you in New York. But remember, that we are going to -- we come back after the break. Talk about this new reporting from this November attacks. They have confirmation about a hideout, about explosives, fingerprints of the man who was on the run. But also, the unknown just expanded. They now know there are more people out there. So where are they and what are they planning next? We have new information ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:22:28] CUOMO: All right. We have breaking news on the November Paris terror attacks investigations.

Belgium authorities now say they found a fingerprint of the fugitive attacker who obviously is still on the run. They found it in an apartment in Brussels. They believe that that apartment was really the factory, that's where they made the bombs, that's where they coordinated the attacks.

Now, we know this because we knew it yesterday. In fact, certainly in advance of the wide reporter you're seeing this morning because of CNN terrorism analysts and editor in chief of the terrorism studies journal CTC Sentinel, Paul Cruickshank.

Now, we also have this morning the benefit of expertise from former French commando Fabrice Magnier. Gentlemen, thank you.

You are head of the curve on this but what matters more is the pieces to this puzzle what they reveal but also what they show as an unknown in a continuing threat. Take us through it.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, they discovered the bomb factory in December where they constructed the suicide -- actually found a sewing machine there. They found some of the vests that have been...

CUOMO: So that confirmed their understanding of the planning that went into it. What do you make of the fingerprint of Abdeslam? Do they think that that came for him hiding out after he went on the run or before or is that something you can't tell?

CRUICKSHANK: They don't know but I think it might well be just before because he was part of all the logistics and the preparation for this attack. So, very likely that he would have gone to this bomb factory.

But the interesting thing is the last known location for him on the day after the attacks, when he disappears, the trail goes completely cold is that exact same district in Brussels (inaudible). So, some possibility that he did go back to that apartment but very, very difficult to tell from investigators whether he did do so. There's no necessary suggestion that he did.

CUOMO: And is it true that there is this kind of growing concern of the unknown, that the more they discover, the more broad this terror web seems to be and that there are many still at large and the concerns are actually growing, not shrinker as they learn more?

CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right. I mean the stunning new development which we broke yesterday, these two operatives still at large, senior members of the conspiracy giving Abaaoud orders over the telephone, orders of the attackers from Brussels. They could still be planning new attacks. They don't know where they are. They only put their pictures out on December 4. That would have given them plenty of time to get far away from Brussels, very far away from Belgium.

[06:25:02] And meanwhile, there's a whole external operations attack planning team in ISIS territory, in Syria and Raqqah and other places which are plotting new ways of attack against Europe. And they're concerned that some of these European ISIS fighters are faking their own death. It's very recent intelligence about this, so that they can get back into Europe, so the security agencies are not so much on lookout for them to plot new carnage over here.

2016, Chris, everybody is really worried about what we're going to see happen this year.

CUOMO: Now, Fabrice Magnier, you said to me early on during the investigates, the more they do, the more they're going to learn about how broad the terror network is here. Because Fabrice's point was the French authorities had been handcuffed by the laws here, they weren't able to do the raids they can now. You say these things are not so simple. Even yesterday, when I wanted to dismiss -- maybe this is just a crazy guy with a knife, you said maybe not. But there are tactics that you've seen that were stopped yesterday but still a real threat. How so?

FABRICE MAGNIER, COUNTER TERRORISM EXPERT: Yeah, the question is he had a fake suicide bomb. The (inaudible) was maybe -- the idea was to get to the police station and use that fake explosive device just to intimidate the police officers and say, OK, look, I have this, now put your weapon down, otherwise everybody will explode, and then after this take control of the place and then wait for the assault from the police (inaudible) or whatever, and wait and be like, demonstrate. He was able with nothing, even a knife, to take hostages in a police station during a state of emergency in France on anniversary date after Charlie Hebdo.

CUOMO: Almost the exact same time also about 11:30 here which you noted yesterday.

MAGNIER: Right.

CUOMO: And you raised another question. You say if it's as simple as him being a deranged guy with a knife going to a police station, why can't they identify who he is? Why did he have different I.D.s in the past? That's a real question. What do you think the answer to it is?

MAGNIER: Yeah. The idea is now to -- we understand all those guys are hiding fake passports, fake identity.

CUOMO: Which you just said that they're faking identities more and more faking deaths.

MAGNIER: Yeah. They are all connected. Obviously, he got some (inaudible) members in his phone. So that means those guys are connected. And even he's a quite crazy or more or less lone wolf, they are still connection. And their followings a big -- the big idea from Syria, their leaders to say, OK, now, you have to kill all the infidels, to kill the Christians, as the way you can, with the knife, with -- a very easy weapon, a pistol or whatever.

CRUICKSHANK: I just to amplify what Fabrice is saying, and ISIS with some of these lone wolves, we're calling them lone wolves, but they're in touch with them over social media, encouraging these kinds of attacks. We have a string of sort of...

MAGNIER: Yeah.

CRUICKSHANK: ... individual attacks here in France where they were in touch with ISIS fighters in realtime who were directing them to launch these attacks, even if they never traveled there to Syria and Iraq. And we saw that in the United States. I saw that Garland attack, Texas attempted attack where one of the gunmen, Elton Simpson exchanged a 109 messages the morning of the attack where the British ISIS fighter (inaudible) is saying.

CUOMO: Paul Cruickshank, Magnier, I'll keep you in the show for later on. Mik, you know, the truth here is the reason we have experts like this is the temptation is dismissed things as simple. They wanted just see this man as deranged but nothing is simple anymore.

PEREIRA: Generally far from it. All right, Chris, thanks so much for that. We'll be back to you shortly. We are though getting an exclusive look at the hometown of the executed cleric who sparked that rift between Saudi Arabia and Iran. CNN, the only network to get this kind of access. What we uncovered, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)