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New Day

Arizona Sheriff Confronts Obama on Gun Control; First Trace of Salah Abdeslam Found in Brussels Flat; ISIS Sympathizer Attempts Attack on Paris Police Station; Hot Spots Flare Up Around the World. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 08, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: ... an Arizona sheriff who said Americans should arm themselves after the San Bernardino attack had a spirited exchange with President Obama at last night's town hall on guns.

[07:30:10] We'll talk to the sheriff, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: President Obama came face-to-face with opponents of his executive actions on gun control during CNN's town hall last night. One of those people was Arizona Sheriff Paul Babeu.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BABEU, SHERIFF PINAL COUNTY, ARIZONA: What would you have done to prevent these mass shootings in the terrorist attack and how do we get those with mental illness and criminals, that's the real problem here, how are we going to get them to follow the laws?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, crime is always going to be with us. So I think it's really important for us not to suggest that if we can't solve every crime, we shouldn't try to solve any crimes.

The challenge we have is, that in many instances you don't know ahead of time who's going to be the criminal.

[07:35:00] The question then becomes, are there ways for us, since we can't identify that person all the time, are there ways for us to make it less lethal when something like that happens?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Paul Babeu is the Sheriff of Pinal County, Arizona. He's also a Republican candidate for congress.

Sheriff, thanks so much for being on.

BABEU: Absolutely, thanks for having me. CAMEROTA: I know that you don't feel that the president answered your question. You tweeted that out after the town hall that you didn't feel you got an adequate answer.

So, you're in law enforcement.

BABEU: Yes.

CAMEROTA: What is your suggestion, what do you think the answer is for stopping these mass shootings?

BABEU: Well, that's -- what I was getting to. And asking the president that, clearly he didn't answer that, when you're looking at all these mass shootings, everyone, especially us in law enforcement, have a passion to protect people and to save lives. What are we going to do to stop these mass shootings?

There's two components to this. And it's the underlying mental health concerns which many of these mass shootings, that's what we have that goes on.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BABEU: Its background checks, many people buy these guns for these individuals or they pass legitimate background checks.

CAMEROTA: Right.

BABEU: And then there's the terrorist act as well.

The second component is the criminality. You have criminals. This is why in law enforcement we call them criminals because they're not going to follow any law. So we already know that all of these gun restriction, that have failed, we can't ignore that information. And that's what I was trying to get at with the president that we have to look to solve these issues. $500 million quite frankly that he proposed isn't going to cut it.

CAMEROTA: OK, but at the start. I mean look, sheriff, it's a start. You're talking about the money that he's given towards the mental health component of this. That's what you're asking for. That's what everyone universally is asking for. Let's deal with the mental health component. He's allotting, asking for congress for another $500 million, it's a start.

To your second point about the background checks, you know, one of those mass shootings that I covered it was in Charleston, South Carolina, that was a guy who should have been flagged in a background check. He had a felony narcotics charge.

BABEU: Right, absolutely.

CAMEROTA: And what the president said connected to that, is that there simply isn't the manpower, these background checkers, there aren't enough of them, they're not working enough hours. He's calling in his executive action for them to work for more to add more background checkers, for the background check process to be shorter so that you don't just sort of wait out the three-day background check, period and then hand over a gun.

So it actually might have stopped if these were in place, the Charleston massacre.

BABEU: Well in that -- no, it wouldn't have because that person actually had a background check and they admitted to ATF that there was a mistakes made.

CAMEROTA: Yes, because of the man -- because of the lack of resources.

BABEU: Well, no. But you actually had a person just like me if I did an investigation and said "Oh, well I'm sorry I didn't have enough support." That was my job. Somebody actually dealt with that specific issue.

So that's not the issue here. If he wants expand them, nobody, especially myself, would ever want anybody who shouldn't have a weapon, that has mental health concerns.

Look, my deputies every day run into these issues where somebody is suicidal or they try to force situation suicide by cop, we have veterans, we had four just in the last eight months in my county that are threatening to kill themselves and they have a gun and they put my deputies in danger.

CAMEROTA: It's terrible. So why not have more background checks at gun shows and internet sales? I mean who is that hurting?

BABEU: Well what -- if you're going to look really at the solution, that's not the answer. We're just finished talking about mental health. Then let's sincerely get everybody to the table just don't have this, half baked proposal that you cook up over two weeks in Hawaii saying that we're going to do this $500 million. Let's really focus. Half of my jail is full of people with mental health. I have 1,100 inmates. They've committed burglary, theft, domestic violence.

CAMEROTA: Right, so you're saying, you're calling for more money for mental health?

BABEU: Absolutely. That's the real issue. Many of these shootings law enforcement has even had contact with these people. We know they're a threat and they're getting no help when they're in jail and they're literally on a hamster wheel when they get out. They're repeating the cycle again and again.

CAMEROTA: Sure, we hear you. I think that people do want more resources for mental health. I don't think that anybody would agree with -- would disagree with that.

But the president is starting that process by asking for more money and starting that conversation. Are you happy with that step?

BABEU: I think that there should be more. I'm not happy with it is what I'm saying and because that's the core issue here. We shouldn't be looking at further restrictions. Look at Chicago. He keeps mentioning Chicago, some of the most restrictive gun laws. And you have 12 shootings the very day that he made this announcement in Chicago.

[07:40:12] So it wasn't anything that he would have done would have prevented those shootings. So that's what we need to discuss, the core issue here.

CAMEROTA: Well Sheriff Babeu, we appreciate you being on NEW DAY and we appreciate you being part of the town hall last night to start this dialogue.

BABEU: It was great.

CAMEROTA: ... and this national conversation.

BABEU: I loved it.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being a part of that.

BABEU: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, let's go back now to Paris, France, where Chris is on the ground. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we are following breaking news here, Alisyn.

Authorities finding their first clue on the potential whereabouts of a fugitive terrorist responsible for the November attacks here in Paris. Where was it found? How will it lead investigators to find him? We have a French lawmaker, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: In the last two days, we have seen two advances in two very different threats here in Paris.

Now related to the November attacks that took 130 lives, Belgium authorities now say they found a fingerprint of a fugitive attacker, Salah Abdeslam, one of the men who was there who then drove some of the other terrorists away who was stopped but not detained because he wasn't connected to the event yet.

[07:45:14] They found it in a Brussels apartment that seems to have been a hideout, a laboratory where they were putting together the bomb belts they used. So that's a key development but it also leads them to questions of who else was involved in this terror network that's still abroad and what else might they be planning?

And then we have what happened yesterday, which at first seemed to be dismissed as someone who was deranged, bringing a knife to a police station.

Now, it seems to be something more that is a look at a different threat that is just as real here in Paris and beyond. So for perspective, let's bring in French Senator Nathalie Goulet. She is the Vice-Chair of Foreign Affairs Committee and was the head of a commission of inquiry that looked into French and European jihadi networks.

Senator, thank you for joining us. When we talk about yesterday...

NATHALIE GOULET, FRENCH SENATOR: Thank you.

CUOMO: At first it looked like a deranged person with a knife. Now investigators say there are real questions about this man's ability to hide his identity and what his real plan may have been with his fake explosive device, his ISIS flag, his letter of pledging his loyalty to Baghdadi, the ISIS leader. What do you think?

GOULET: Exactly. First of all, we have absolutely no way to check his I.D. which is very strange. You know, at the beginning we thought he was from Morocco, then it looks like been from Tunisia. And the D.A. just expressed is doubt this morning that we could find his I.D. yet. Then all the stories is really, really strange.

CUOMO: It is strange, because it feeds into this...

GOULET: We are looking for...

CUOMO: Continue, senator.

GOULET: Thank you. Sorry. Yes. We are looking forward, you know, because at the beginning exactly as you said it, we thought it was just somebody with kind of mental illness. And then you look more like somebody who wanted to copy, just to improve himself and try to have this minute of fame by committing this kind of crime in a police station.

So we are now looking -- but what is for sure and he shouldn't have been on the territory, because if the I.D. is correct, he was not allowed to stay in France anymore since 2013. So right now, I think that the work would be to be sure of his I.D. the way he was acting is really strange and investigators are really disturbed about this case, especially the days that we are celebrating the Charlie attack.

CUOMO: Yes. And obviously the timing wasn't a coincidence. It wasn't just the one-year anniversary. But this man went at the police station at exactly the same time, about 11:30 in the morning here, as the attack happened at Charlie Hebdo.

My question for you, senator, is it seems like in these investigations authorities keep figuring out opportunities that were missed. This man had fake identity different times. The November attackers, some of them were under surveillance. The main planner was somebody who you knew was trying to make attacks here in Paris and beyond. Is France up to speed in stopping the threat that it faces?

GOULET: Nobody's able to stop the threat, you know, first of all, we cannot put policeman behind everybody. Then we have those borders like Swiss cheese. And then we really have some problem because, you know, zero risk will never happen. And we have to learn how to live under the threat. And that is an absolutely new behavior that we have. We have to cross intelligence services and we have to be more careful. Each city has on us to be more careful. And that is really a new way for us.

But what happened yesterday to come back to your question, is probably linked to this kind of new threat that the people want to duplicate some of those kind of attack, to be famous. And so we have to be very careful during the celebration, not to provoke any people who are really on the verge of radicalization and will cross a border.

[07:50:07] I think it's exactly what happened yesterday.

CUOMO: Senator Goulet, thank you very much. It's difficult not to provoke people who are provoked simply by the Parisian way of life. Thank you for talking to us. Good luck going forward.

Mik, we comeback to you in New York, another big challenge they're going to face here in Paris we've experience the United States as well, is they have special police measures right now. It's called "The state of emergency" here.

That is going to go on forever. When well they stop the measures? The investigators don't wanted to happen, a lot of the Parisian citizens do. That's the tension so we'll follow what's happens.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thanks so much for that Chris.

So terror attack there in Paris, tensions between Saudi and Iran worsening North Korea claiming they tested a Hydrogen bomb.

Ahead we're going to take a look at all the world's hot spot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Several hot spots are flaring up around the world in the first week of the New Year. From North Korea's claims of a nuclear bomb to the conflicts that's escalating between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Want to discuss it all with Bobby Ghosh our Global Affairs Analyst and a Managing Editor at Quartz. Quite start to a New Year. It's only the 8th of January and we already have so many world event that are happening that we need to take a look at.

We'll start with North Korea. Because it happens to be their reclusive leader's 33rd birthday today. The claims of having launched an H-bomb, we do know our Will Ripley got inside there somewhat. Obviously he was being escorted by officials there. Do you anticipate this nuclear threat is going to increase?

[07:55:04] BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, it is certainly going to be a big part of the conversation this year. Now that the Iranian nuclear threat is off the table so to speak this is Kim Jong-un putting himself in the conversation. Election here in the United States. PEREIRA: Inserting himself.

GHOSH: And which he loves to do.

PEREIRA: Yeah,

GHOSH: Election here in the United States, presidential candidates have not been talking about North Korea, not they have too. The fact that they've tested something is significant. The fact that they have miniaturized the bomb, whether it is H-bomb or an atom bom?

PEREIRA: Also significant.

GHOSH: Very significant. Which means they can put it on one of their missiles, no one actually at this point believes they are going to fire off in any of those missiles in any direction but it changes the threat perception, it's makes them more dangerous.

PEREIRA: The U.N. Security Council has threatened punitive measures. What is that going to look like?

GHOSH: Well, they are already sanctioned out pretty much.

PEREIRA: Right.

GHOSH: All the sanctions realistically you can apply to that country are already in place. The only country that has any significant influence over North Korea are the Chinese. That is the one country with whom they are continue to trade and receive aid and supplies. The only people who can bring them to heal are the Chinese. And they haven't really done much as it.

PEREIRA: All right, we seen the situation growing in -- with the Iran and Saudi Arabia. We know the Muslim cleric (inaudible) there, we tension keeps umping up. What do you see happening in the weeks and months ahead?

GHOSH: Well, proxy war. Look, as the hostility increases, you'll hear lots of angry rhetoric on both sides but no one really expecting Iran and Saudi Arabia to go directly to war against each other but their surrogates are already at war.

PEREIRA: Right.

GHOSH: In Syria, in Lebanon. And in Yemen it's little more than a proxy war because Saudi Arabia is actually physically fighting the war there. Iran is not. Iran is operating through the Shia rebels. But Saudi Arabia is bombing Yemen. Saudi Arabia has troops on the ground in Yemen. That's the potentially the hottest of the many the hot spots in which these two counties.

PEREIRA: Any room for common ground? For this moment.

GHOSH: At the moment no. At this moment no. You'll probably going to -- there's going to be more heat before things cooled. PEREIRA: I want to move to Libya because it's interesting we've been talking about all these areas here in Afghanistan and Iraq. Libya right now it seems as though the world is not necessarily paying attention. ISIS fighting to get control of some oil towns there. Our pentagon actually has been praising some of the reductions in Iraq against ISIS. But Libya meanwhile sort of unfettered.

GHOST: Classic whack-a-mole. Right, we ended 2015 with a little self congratulatory. Well, ISIS has lost for 14 percent, 20 percent of its territory in Syria in Iraq and that's true and that needs to be noted celebrated. But it's gaining territory in Libya. And as you pointed out it's on the outskirts of some really important oil installations and that has a way of focusing the world's attention. When terrorists get close to oil everyone sits up and pays attention.

PEREIRA: They do. Getting our attention in New Year's Eve was this situation that happened in Germany, there were some over a hundred assaults so sort like a mob sexual assault. We understand that 31 suspects have been detained. Of 18 of them we understand we're seeking asylum in Germany. Germany has been a sort of proud welcomer of immigrants and refugees there. Some millions have already arrived on their shores.

Do you think that is going take an impact on what happens in Germany with refugee crisis and across Europe?

GHOST: Absolutely. A lot of Germans are already beginning to question Angela Merkel's policies about allowing rightly or wrongly, they are questioning whether she should be allowing in so many refugees particularly from Syria.

About these latest attacks, things are very murky, we shouldn't sort of rush to judge, but people will. It's a very motivation. Keep in mind that everything that happened in 2015, all these refugees being welcomed into Austria, to Germany. That sends a message across to the many, many refugee camps where the Syrians are. The message is get to Germany.

PEREIRA: Right.

GHOSH: They are trying desperately to get to Germany. Meanwhile in Germany this happens. So we're going to see a lot more refugees trying to make their way there. And if Germany begins to gets a hostile or at least inhospitable toward these refugees that creates a whole new dimension to what is already a pretty tragic humanitarian crisis.

PEREIRA: Certainly it is. Bobby Ghosh we appreciate walking through all those hot spots in the world what has today. Thank you.

Certainly following in a lot of news this Friday. So let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I respect the second amendment. I respect the right to bear arms. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want the hope that I have the right to protect myself. That I have the freedom to carry whatever weapon I feel I need.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have been unspeakably victimized once already.

OBAMA: I just want to repeat that there is nothing that we'd propose that would make it harder for you to purchase a firearm.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what a gun-free zone is to a sicko? That's bait. I will get rid of gun free zones.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean their running for president. Everything is fair game and everything gets looked at.

[08:00:03] TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to be talking legal advice anytime soon from Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New details coming out from the November Paris attack.

CUOMO: A painful anniversary here marked by another scare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They really don't know who's this guy...