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President Obama Addresses Town Hall Meeting on Gun Control; Donald Trump Campaign in Vermont; Tensions Escalate as North Celebrates Kim Jung Un Birthday; Paris on Edge After Thwarted Attack. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 08, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything is fair game and everything gets looked at.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to be taking legal advice any time soon from Donald Trump.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: New details coming out from the November Paris attack.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Painful anniversary here marked by another scare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They really don't know who this guy is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, January 8th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn and Michaela are in New York. I am here in Paris.

Tensions are running high after the attempted attack at a police station but an apparent ISIS sympathizer. The thwarted attack coming exactly a year after the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine massacre. We also have breaking news out of Belgium related to those November attacks here in Paris, 130 lost people their liver, hundreds more injured. Authorities now finding new clues on the fugitive terrorist responsible for carrying out those attacks here in Paris. We'll give you details ahead, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, we'll be back with you shortly.

But first, President Obama making his case for executive action on guns in a town hall meeting right here on CNN. The president facing his critics and blasting conspiracy theorists who claim that he's trying to take everyone's guns. Did he win over any skeptics? CNN's Michelle Kosinski is live at the White House with our top story. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. The goal of this was to have strong voices on both sides of the issue not yelling and battling out but having a real discussion. I don't think there is any argument about that is what this was. People had some extremely compelling personal stories, the president got personal too. But he also had some strong words for his opponents.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: President Obama addressed a crowd split on the issue with a surprising story from his time in the campaign trail, going through rural Iowa. He says the first lady brought up the subject of guns for protection.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At one point Michelle turned to me and she said, you know, if I was living in a farmhouse where the sheriff's department is pretty far away and somebody can just turn off the highway and come up to the farm, I'd want to have a shotgun or a rifle to make sure that I was protected and my family was protected. And she was absolutely right.

KOSINSKI: He faced tough questions from familiar faces. Taya Kyle, wife of murdered American sniper Chris Kyle, Mark Kelly, husband of former Congresswoman and shooting victim Gabby Giffords. Kimberly Corban is a rape victim and NRA supporter.

KIMBERLY CORBAN, COLLEGE RAPE SURVIVOR: I have been unspeakably victimized once already and I refuse to let that happen again to myself or my kids. So why can't your administration see that these restriction that you are putting to make it harder for me to own a gun or take that gun where I need it to be is actually just making my kids and I less safe.

OBAMA: There is nothing that we have proposed that would make it harder for you to purchase a firearm.

KOSINSKI: A conspicuous no-show here, the NRA itself.

OBAMA: If you listen to the rhetoric, it is so over the top and so overheated. I'm happy to talk to him. But the conversation has to be based on facts and truth and what we're actually proposing, not some imaginary fiction in which Obama is trying to take away your guns.

KOSINSKI: It was the sandy hook shooting that made President Obama uncharacteristically emotional this week. Now he watched himself make that speech.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I think a lot of people were surprised by that moment.

OBAMA: I was too, actually. You know, I visited Newtown two days after what happened. So it was still very raw. It is the only time I've ever seen Secret Service cry on duty. It continues to haunt me. It was one of the worst days of my presidency.

KOSINSKI: And as Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz now campaigns with this image of the president alongside the words "Obama wants your guns," many conservatives were riled, offend by his calling that kind of rhetoric a conspiracy, which he somewhat testily defended.

COOPER: Is it fair to call it a conspiracy? A lot of people really believe this deeply, that they just don't trust you.

OBAMA: I'm sorry Cooper, yes, it is fair to call it a conspiracy. What are you saying?

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Are you suggesting that the notion that we are creating a plot to take everybody's guns away so that we can impose martial law is not a conspiracy? Yes, that is a conspiracy. I would hope that you would agree with that. Is that controversial?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: One of the president's key points is that if you are going to continue to regulate the auto industry, regulate medicines, even toys to protect people and make lives better, why would you not do the same with guns? Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Michelle, thank you so much for that.

[08:05:00] Well, Donald Trump meanwhile pushing his own gun agenda at a rally in Vermont. Trump saying more people in America need to be armed. Protesters disrupting his rally which was held interestingly in Bernie Sanders backyard in Burlington. Athena Jones live from Washington with more. Athena?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. Yes, it was interesting to see the split screen moment with these two very different events going on at the same time. Trump slamming the president's moves on guns and making a pledge of his own last night. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you know what a gun-free zone is to a sicko? That is bait. That is like, gun free zone. I'll get rid of gun free zones on schools. And you have to. And on military bases, my first day it gets signed, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So a lot of support in the crowd for that. But this point about the dangers of gun free zones is one that Trumps makes often. He also likes to say that the people in Paris and San Bernardino, if they had been armed there would have been far fewer victims in those terror attacks.

And meanwhile the rally was in Burlington, Vermont, deep in the heart of the Bernie Sanders territory, as you mentioned. It was interrupted at least eight times by protesters, many of them wearing Bernie Sanders t-shirts. You can see the video there, Trump fans trying to shout down protestors, who were chanting things like "This is not Vermont." "Trump ruins Vermont." Get Trump out." Trump himself was clearly annoyed with these protesters, asking security to move a little faster to get him out of here, and even saying at one point "Throw them out in the cold, confiscate their coats." So some very contentious moments there for Trump last night.

CAMEROTA: That might be effective. All right, Athena, thanks so much for that.

The issue of gun control not a central one in the 2016 race. Here to discuss it is CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House political director and Donald Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord, and CNN political commentator Van Jones. Van worked in the White House for President Obama. Gentlemen, great to see you. Jeffrey, let me start with you.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Good morning. What do you think about the argument that President Obama basically led with last night, which is every single one of you in this room, in this town hall who owns a gun had to pass a background check. Why object to other people who are trying to buy it online on the internet or at gun shows having to do the same thing?

LORD: Well, Alisyn -- I think the complaint -- I am not a gun owner, but I believe the complaint is these things don't work very well. There was a shooting in California in the Santa Barbara area in 2014. And I went and checked on that. It was this young kid who killed all sorts of people, and I believe he was killed himself. And I found out that the Brady gun control people had said that California -- they gave California an A-minus rating saying they had the best and toughest gun control laws in the country. Yet this kid managed to get a gun. So they are doing everything that they anti-gun lobby asked and still this happened.

CAMEROTA: Yes and I want to bring in Van. Hold on, Jeffrey, I want to bring in Van, because that is an important point. People brought it up with President Obama last night. How will any of this make a difference in the mass shootings? And some people say they didn't get an adequate answer from the president, Van.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all there is this argument out there that none of this stuff works, it doesn't make a difference. But unfortunately facts matter. Data matters. There are not that many studies because the federal government has been disallowed by the gun lobby from doing any studies, but the studies that are out there are pretty conclusive. In Missouri, when they backed away from those background checks they had a 14 percent spike in killings. That is about 60 more people a year died. In Connecticut when they implemented stronger background checks they had a 40 percent drop in these shootings. So no, you can't stop every shooting, you can't stop every nut, but you can have appreciable, 14 percent, 40 percent swings based on having the kinds of things the president is talking about.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, Donald Trump on the campaign trail has been saying that President Obama is coming for your guns. He hates the Second Amendment. Last night the president basically called that a conspiracy theory and he tried to tamp it down. Will Donald Trump change his rhetoric?

LORD: I don't think so. Donald Trump isn't going to tamp down rhetoric on something like this. A lot of people are very concerned about this. And Alisyn, I'd add one other thing. After Newtown I wrote a column and did a considerable amount of research about the culture of violence in this country. One thing that was quite noticeable last night, unless I missed it, abortion was never mentioned. And there are plenty of Americans who believe that abortion since Roe V Wade has contributed to a culture of violence --

CAMEROTA: But Jeffrey, this was a town hall on guns. Also the economy wasn't mentioned. What's happening in China wasn't mentioned. One topic at a time, Jeffrey.

LORD: No, no, no, Alisyn. There is a direct connection here, a direct connection. If we have created a culture as in the words of one Catholic deacon where human life is treated like trash, what do we expect here? Mass shootings have increased dramatically since Roe versus Wade. There were something like 109 of them.

[08:10:12] CAMEROTA: So you are saying there is a connection, a correlation between mass shootings and Roe versus Wade?

JONES: In fact it is opposite.

LORD: If we don't respect human life, people are going to take human life.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead. He made a point. Van, go.

JONES: In fact, again, data matters, facts matter. It is the opposite. Since Roe versus Wade you have had a decrease in violent crime across the country in all categories. That's part of what's been remarkable about this past year. But you do have these sharp increases in mass shootings. And we're trying to figure out how to deal with that.

But listen, I don't want to go down this particular rabbit hole. I just want to say I'm very proud of this president. It takes a lot of courage and character to sit there and take real questions from real people. CNN did not script this. He did not know what was coming at him. I thought he did a great job. We should be proud of this president.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, should the NRA have participated? They declined the invitation to be there.

LORD: I really do think the problem is the Obama administration has gone out of his way to make NRA the bad guy.

JONES: And they have gone out of their way --

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Van. LORD: -- distrust with the NRA. This was CNN's event, not the White

House event. And from my perspective, I would have shown up. But I can understand it because they believe that the Obama administration has it out for them so why bother. They think he's not going to be fair.

CAMEROTA: OK, Van, is that why they didn't come?

JONES: First of all, they should know that CNN would be fair and it was a CNN event. Second of all, that cuts both ways. The NRA has made so much money demonizing President Obama and whipping up this fear which is totally unfair that he somehow has some hidden secret agenda to take 300 million guns from people, which is completely nuts on its face and is not what he's about. So that goes both ways.

CAMEROTA: And Jeffrey, something interesting came out last night as well. There is a new CNN/ORC poll and it talks about how Americans feel about what the president is doing. And they are really telling. And 67 percent of Americans favor the policy in terms of whether the president is trying to do with background checks through his executive order, 67 percent favor it, 32 percent oppose. However, on the flipside, Van, but I'll address it to Jeffrey first, 54 percent Jeffrey oppose how he's doing it with executive action. But, you know, he says that he's tried to work through congress. So what was he to do?

LORD: Well, you know, years ago, they released the LBJ tapes. He recorded himself while he was in the White House. And you constantly hear him on the phone with legislators cajoling them, negotiating with them, et cetera. President Obama does not like to do that. And it is not just how we make laws but how we come to consensus in this country.

The civil rights laws, for example, of the 1960s were not issued as executive orders. They were passed through Congress. There was debate. There were filibusters. There were arguments. They were passed overwhelmingly. To this day they are wonderful laws that take great effect. The point is you have to go through that process to bring consensus, and he doesn't want to do that.

CAMEROTA: Van, what about that? Does the president care that Americans don't like how he went about this?

JONES: I'm sure he does care. But let's not forget, a lot of people heard this hue and cry. Oh my God, this president is going to be the gun grabbing apocalypse, this president has gone outside the constitution, and that affected the polls.

But I think what's going to happen, you're going to look as these numbers settle down. Once people realize how modest these things were I think people are going to be a lot more accepting and appreciative. He is completely within his rights to reduce this ambiguity about whether or not the law applies to you if you're selling guns online or at gun shows. That is not a new law. Literally it is just clarifying existing law. So listen, the most important thing I can say is simply this. We have

had too many funerals. I've seen too many memorial services. We've got too many times where you have to stop the news to cover yet again another killing. And the fact that this president is taking action I think is something to be applauded, and if Congress wants more action, they should take more action.

CAMEROTA: Van, Jeffrey, thank you. We appreciate the conversation.

LORD: Thanks, Alisyn, thanks, Van.

JONES: Thank you, Jeff.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Michaela.

PEREIRA: Great conversation, Alisyn.

All right, relations between North and South Korea deteriorating once again. South Korea resuming those loud speaker propaganda campaigns across the border into North Korea following the North's claim that it had tested a hydrogen bomb. How will its leader Kim Jong-un respond as today happens to be his 33rd birthday? Will Ripley is live in the North Korean capital. He joins us from there now. Will?

[08:15:01] WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Michaela, that really does add insult to these actions by the South Korean government, and that is probably precisely why they are doing it, because this regime is all about controlling the message and making sure that the people who live here only consume the information that the government and the regime led by Kim Jong-un wants them to consume.

So, for these loud speakers to be broadcasting these messages within earshot of hundreds of thousands of North Korean troops that are stationed along the demilitarized zone, it is certainly a provocative act. That came just a few days after an extremely provocative act in the eyes of many by the North Korean government. Kim Jong-un seen here on the front page of the state-run newspaper signing the order to detonate a nuclear device, the regime says it's a hydrogen bomb.

A lot of experts dispute that claim but it certainly was a nuclear test of some kind that created an earthquake and certainly a lot of political tremors around the world as well, because countries were blindsided. They see that in spite of international sanctions, in spite of multiple efforts to stop this type of activity, the regime continues to aggressively invest and grow its nuclear arsenal, putting in danger regional allies of the United States such as South Korea and Japan. And, you know, we visited a science center today where we saw developments in missile technology as well. North Koreans say that they now have the capability to send missiles even further beyond their border, possibly even to the United States -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Will, it is so helpful to have your reporting from North Korea -- thank you for that.

Well, two Iraqi refugees with links to ISIS expected in court today. They were arrested on terrorism-related charges in California and Texas. Authorities say a 23-year-old in Sacramento traveled to Syria to fight and then lied to homeland security officials about it. While a 24-year-old in Houston is charged with trying to provide material support to the terrorists. At this point, no information the men planned any attacks here in the U.S.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, Israeli defense officials say four Palestinians were killed after attempting to stab Israeli soldiers in two separate attacks. The first occurred in the West Bank, where three alleged attackers were killed and the other incident near Hebron, a Palestinian man was shot dead at the scene. None of the Israeli soldiers were injured.

CAMEROTA: Turning now to that story that has everyone buzzing, the Powerball jackpot.

PEREIRA: Which one is your ticket?

CAMEROTA: I know we're going to win.

It is soaring to a whopping $700 million. Your odds of winning it, Michaela, well, not ours because we're going to win, but everybody else's, 1 in 292 million.

As we've told you, you are more likely to get hit by an asteroid. Also to have a quadruplets naturally. That one scares me.

PEREIRA: The other was being hit by lightning while drowning.

CAMEROTA: Yes. More likely to have that happened.

But that's not stopped millions of Americans from not buying tickets. So, let's imagine for a second that if you were to win. If you did you would be richer than all of these people.

PEREIRA: No way, richer than Katy Perry?

CAMEROTA: Floyd Mayweather. Robert Downy, Jr., I like him.

PEREIRA: T. Swift.

CAMEROTA: Taylor Swift.

PEREIRA: Cristiano Ronaldo, are you kidding me?

CAMEROTA: No, I'm not kidding. These are the highest paid celebrities we know of. Howard Stern -- you would have more money than One Direction, OK? And there's four of them. A rule change just means that it is easier to match the Powerball?

PEREIRA: Just the Powerball number. The one Powerball number.

CAMEROTA: That is a fantastic rule.

PEREIRA: Yes, but wait. How much do you win if of you match that?

CAMEROTA: Four dollars.

PEREIRA: Yes. So, that's likely what we're going to win because there's a 1/25 chance of us winning that.

CAMEROTA: Four dollars?

PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: That would be hard to split between 23 people.

PEREIRA: All right. Eighteen minutes past the hour here in New York City.

Let's head back to Paris and to Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You know, the easiest way to assure failure is to anticipate it. That is why I say don't remind people how remote the chances are. Go out, buy the ticket. Hope for the best.

We are in Paris because of the "Charlie Hebdo" anniversary. But in the last two days, we've seen two different aspects of major risk here and major developments on both fronts. We had what happened yesterday with the guy with the knife going into the police station. This is turning out to be more, according to investigators, than what it's first seen.

And big developments about where the planning was done for these November attacks and who else is still out there. We'll have much more on this when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:41] CUOMO: In the last two days, we've seen two major developments on two entirely different types of threats facing France. Let's bring in a team of people who can really take us deep down into what's going on here.

We have CNN European correspondent Jim Bittermann. We have our terrorism analyst and editor and chief of the terrorism studies journal "CTC Sentinel," Paul Cruickshank, who's had us a least a day ahead on the reporting coming out of the latest on the investigation to the November attacks. And we have terrorism expert and former French commando Fabrice Magnier who understands very well what France is doing and needs to do to combat the threats that are going on here.

So, let's start with the headline. Mr. Bittermann, yesterday, a man with a knife goes to the police station on the one year anniversary of "Charlie Hebdo" magazine massacre, at almost the same time of day, the initial instinct was dismiss him as a lunatic. Now, authorities are saying not so fast. Why?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, because for one thing, he had this German cell phone, he had a cell phone with a German SIM card in it. That is something not too easy to get. He was described by the people of the neighborhood as a homeless type they thought. But in fact, it reminded me of this guy Khazzani who some months ago

tried to pull off an attack on a high speed train from Amsterdam. Americans stopped him. He was better armed. He was also described as the homeless man living in a park in Belgium, but he had these weapons and he had support, money and support.

So, I think that as they dig deeper in this, they're going to find more links.

CUOMO: They still can't even identify him because he had an ability to multiply his identities, have fake IDs.

So, I still don't want to accept it Fabrice Magnier. I say you bring a knife to a police station, you are looking to get killed and nothing else, you are saying no. There could have been a deeper plan and tactic involved with the fake explosive and just the knife. How so?

FABRICE MAGNIER, COUNTER TERRORISM EXPERT: Yes, in fact, it could be just to use a device just to intimidate the police officer in order to take control of the place. You know, I have an explosive device, if you move I will kill everybody. Put your weapon down, then control the room, take the whole the stage and do some revindication and wait for the assault of the SWAT team and maybe more, you know.

CUOMO: His motivation, certainly ISIS sympathizers. Why? Because investigators say he had the ISIS flag.

[08:25:00] He had the pledge to Baghdadi, the leader of that murderous group. So, cue (ph) to that.

Well, he's still a one-off, Paul Cruickshank. You say absolutely not. The copy cat phenomenon, the low bar of turning someone who is a sympathizer, which they have thousands of within the Muslim population here into an active terrorist is a low bar you say. How so?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, it can be a low bar and it's very difficult for the authorities to tell when people are going to move from radical thought, which isn't a crime here in Europe or the United States, to radical action, to violent action. And what we're seeing increasingly from ISIS is that they are in touch in one way, shape or form or another with these radicals here in Europe, in the United States, over social media, directly instigating, grooming these people for attacks.

And we saw that this that attempted attack in Garland, Texas, in May of last year. We've seen that in string of cases here in France involving one or two people. It might be the case there was that communication again this time around. We clearly still don't know yet Chris.

CUOMO: And the interesting point, Jim, that you made was, you know, when somebody is a vagrant, you say, would they be? Why wouldn't they? You know, in so many of these situations, you have to be willing to give up a life that may be you don't value that much in the first place. BITTERMANN: You know, another point that the Paris prosecutor made this morning in an interview, he said that this could have been a two- stage attack. And one thing we have to be more wary of and more aware of is when officials rush out to the scene and you have this big rush of first responders, they have to be protected because there could be a two stage attack. You could have something like a guy comes at the police with a meat cleaver. The next thing you know, the guy comes with a bomb afterwards, or there is a car with a bomb nearby.

CUOMO: Draw a crowd, then act. Hopefully, we don't see that but obviously, you have to prepare. So, French authorities come out with a sobering statement. They say we have no cause for optimism.

Part of that comes off what Cruickshank was bringing to us yesterday, actually had days ahead of anybody else, developments in the November terror plot. The investigation revealing a bomb factory, fingerprints of someone they are looking for. And all of these leads to others who could still be abroad. How so?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, all these leads and two senior members of this conspiracy still at large. They put out grainy photographs on December 4, these two operatives. They were in touch with the plotters here in Paris, before, during and after the attacks. They were giving orders. They were part of the operations they believe. They were ferrying operatives from Hungary, back over here to France to launch the attacks. They were wiring money. They were renting safe houses.

The more we find out about this plot, Chris, the bigger and bigger it becomes. They had multiple safe houses in Belgium. A villa if you can believe that, in the south of Belgium, which they used in preparation. Also this bomb factory right in the center of Brussels, very near all of those European Union headquarters buildings, where they built the bombs and transported the suicide vests all the way to Paris and final tinkering here and then launched the attack.

The scale of is staggering and there is more in the works. The leaders of this overall conspiracy believed to be in Syria at the senior level with ISIS. French, Belgium, European officers part of this planning. There is more in the works. They are very worried and this is very recent intelligence about European ISIS operatives faking their own deaths so that they can get back here, fly under the radar screen and launch more days like we saw, of more nights like we saw in Paris.

CUOMO: Cruickshank, Bittermann, Magnier, first class team, thanking you all for understanding what's going on here, and what it means is the deeper question. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

Back to you in New York, Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. Thanks so much, Chris.

Back here at home, President Obama making an offer to the National Rifle Association, after the gun rights group did not show at CNN's town hall on guns. We're going tell you more about the offer and whether the NRA is likely to accept it.

Also, the December jobs report is out. We'll bring that to you, next.

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