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New Day

Cruz Didn't Disclose Loan For 2012 Senate Bid; Conservatives Clash Over Cruz "Birtherism"; Did Flirtatious Text Messages Lead to Capture?; Prison Moves "El Chapo" Cell to Cell Daily to Prevent Escape; Clinton Launches Political Attack on Sanders; Would Trump or Cruz as Nominee Hurt Republicans? Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 14, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:11] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: OK. Now to a developing campaign story. Ted Cruz received almost $1 million in low-interest loans from banks, including Goldman Sachs, where his wife works. Failing to disclose that to federal election officials. Joining us now is CNN political commentator of "SMERCONISH", Michael Smerconish. Good morning, Michael.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: OK, so how big of a deal do you think it is that he had this almost $1 million in loans. And at least he says he's disclosed it many times but the FEC says not so fast?

SMERCONISH: Right, so it's a disclosure issue. It's not an issue of him having taken a loan that would have been illegal. He just should have revealed it. And Alisyn, there's a legitimate purpose behind this disclosure requirement and that is that the public has a right to know whether there's a cozy relationship between whomever is providing the loan and the candidate. And I think that gets to the real issue for Cruz which is one of authenticity because, as you made reference before the break, he likes to rail against Donald Trump and those quote/unquote, New York values. He's also someone who's gone after quote/unquote crony capitalism. So I think it goes to the heart of who he is.

Now, from his part, I expect that today you're going to hear more as to how, this is an attack from the liberal "New York Times" and in some quarters that support Ted Cruz, that will play very well.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Well, this is a little reflection also of what we saw with the ethanol. There's an inconsistency. That's what happens when you

start to get more attention in politics, you get more scrutiny. But I do think we have to be careful. Low-interest loans. There is no suggestion that the loan was submarket or that this was an artificial rate. And yes, one

of them was from the bank where his wife is, but again, these suggestions can sound nefarious but there's no allegation of that. Nobody's saying it's illegal. He's saying he disclosed it plenty so it goes more to the political fallout, not anything more substantial than that.

SMERCONISH: And that's why I set from the get-go, it's not a legality issue. It's of disclosure, it's a filing issue he may be able to discount that. But Chris, I think it does undercut the narrative because he did tell in the 2012 cycle and has been telling in this cycle as well, he tells a very nice heartwarming story saying, hey honey, I need to liquidate everything, is that okay with you? And it's a little different than saying, we're going to your employer and we're now going to get upwards of $960,000 in the form of a loan. Again, legal, but it doesn't ring true as he told it.

CAMEROTA: That is a different narrative. All right, something's going on with Ted Cruz and the numbers because yesterday, the Des Moines register released a new poll and shows that his numbers have softened since December. Back then, a month ago, he was at 31 percent in Iowa. Today, 25 percent. Do you think it's the questions about his eligibility that Donald Trump has raised? What do you see behind those numbers?

SMERCONISH: I do, in part, and what I'm saying is belied by the internals. Because when you go to the internals, in several of these polls, people are saying, in Iowa, no, that's not a big issue to me. In fact, 85 percent, the last figure that I saw of individuals who say that they really don't think that's significant. But maybe we're not asking the question in the right way. Maybe it's not that they're troubled about his birth in Canada, but that Trump is being effective again, because he did this relative to president Obama, as painting an opponent as an other. In other words, Alisyn, he's not one of us. He's something different than those of us who were born in the United States. I really don't think it's about disqualifying Ted Cruz.

I think it's very similar to when Trump said, you know, not too many evangelicals have come from Cuba. What did he mean by that? I think I know what he means.

CUOMO: What's interesting for Ted Cruz is, again, another very, very bright guy. He is politically -- what's happening to him is called being hoisting on his own petard. He was the divider. That was what his role was. I don't like the other republicans. I don't like these people coming across the border. I don't like what's going on with Obama's birth certificate. Now it's being used on him by Trump who plays by even looser rules than ordinary politicians do. And he hasn't figured out how to come back with it. Couldn't that be enough to move the needle as much as it's moved in Iowa, that his defense of himself has taken him off offense?

SMERCONISH: In comparison to Trump, I mean, he is absolutely the more sedate, the more mundane of the two, and yet as compared to anybody else on that stage, you'd say that Cruz is the outlier. It sets the stage, I think, for the debate tonight because the two of them will have to do battle over this. To your point, Chris, I can't help but wonder if Ted Cruz is regretting having played nice with the Donald all the way up until now because that strategy, in the end, might not pay off for him. I'll just underscore this if I might; among those who are most likely to come out to vote in the Iowa caucus, because this is much different than sitting at home in your barcalounger and checking a box and mailing it in. You've got to have skin in the game. Among the most likely, Ted Cruz remains the favorite. Among the potentials, it's Donald Trump's to lose. Does Trump have ground game? We're going to find out. That's the real issue for him.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, Michael, before we let you go, Nikki Haley, she's considered a rising star in the republican party, governor of South Carolina. Now, she, too, is in the cross hairs of Trump for what she said at the State of the Union response; is this good for Nikki Haley? Bad for Nikki Haley?

SMERCONISH: I think it's good for Nikki Haley long term in terms of her standing in the party and her national appeal. The problem for Donald Trump is that this is the number third state that's going to cast its ballots and you don't want to be at crosshairs, I think, with the governor of that state. I said here on CNN, the very night of the State of the Union, how remarkable that the president took shots at the republican front-runner and then in the rebuttal or response, so too did the individual Nikki Haley, who was offering that speech. And here's my point; the members of congress

who are republicans, I think that the republican side of the aisle was just fine with what Barack Obama and Nikki Haley had to say about their front-runner. That's really a stunning indictment of where this entire thing stands. He's so, Trump, at odds with the establishment class.

CAMEROTA: It gets curiouser and curiouser, Michael Smerconish. Thank you very much, great to see you.

CUOMO: All right, coming up on NEW DAY, we're going to talk with republican candidate Senator Rand Paul about why he is skipping tonight's undercard debate. Mich?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: All right. Did flirtatious text messages ultimately lead to El Chapo's capture? We're going to speak about new details in the case with a former U.S. ambassador to Mexico next.

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PEREIRA: Did flirtatious text messages between El Chapo and a Mexican soap star help track down the fugative drug lord? New details on how officials were able to recapture El Chapo who is now apparently being moved from jail cell to jail cell to avoid another escape. Joing us now is former United States ambassador to Mexico, ambassador Tony Garza. Ambassador, thanks so much for joing us.

TONY GARZA, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO MEXICO: Michaela, good morning.

PEREIRA: Well first of all, we understand that El Chapo Guzman is since being (ph) sits locked up in Altiplano prison, the very place that he escaped from. We understand that they're going to these lengths as I just mentioned, moving him from jail cell to jail cell, to avoid escape this time. How confident do you feel that he won't?

GARZA: Well, actually, in this case, I think quite confident. As you know, Chapo Guzman, Joaquin Guzman was one of the most notorious cartel leaders in the history, not only of this country, but the world. And when he escaped in July, it was to great embarrassment to the Mexican government. I think that since that time, you've seen a tremendous amount of resources committed to his recapture and having recaptured him and made assurances that he will be extradited to the United States, I think they are going to do everything possible to make sure that he stays in that jail.

In the wake of his escape, there was an exhaustive investigation, there has been a change in personnel, a change in protocols under which he will be held and the world is watching and I think this administration and this government recognizes that they have got to hold him until the extradition proceedings here in this country are complete and he can be extradited to the United States, ultimately for prosecution.

PEREIRA: One of the details that we're learning is that U.S. officials confirmed to us here at CNN that they actually had been tracking Sean Penn's interaction with this soap opera actress Kate del Castillo, long before the pair met up with Chapo in Mexico. Are you surprised at that level of surveillance and tracking and intelligence?

GARZA: No, not really. We have enjoyed a very significant history of cooperation and support both ways. The United States law enforcement efforts working closely with our Mexican counterparts and vice versa. And when you have a transnational organization like the Sinaloa cartel that is functioning in over 50 countries, transnational cooperation is necessary. So it doesn't surprise me that there has been exchanges of intelligence, that there has been mutual support, but ultimately this appears to have been a Mexican operation. They took the lead in recapturing him. To the extent we provided support, I think it was primarily on the intelligence side and ultimately that's the only way these things can be effective in combating organizations that don't recognize borders.

PEREIRA: A Mexican newspaper released some of the text messages that apparently Guzman and del Castillo were exchanging and I want to show you a few of them, in fact, one of them says, it's translated from Spanish, Kate del Castillo says, "I haven't been able to sleep much since i saw you. I'm very excited about our story. It's true. It's the only thing I can think of."

Chapo responds by saying, "Let me tell you that I'm more excited about you than the story, my friend."

She says, "Ha, ha, ha! Knowing that makes me really glad. You make me blush." Sounds like the text between teenagers. What do you make about the drug lord's apparent infatuation with the starlet?

GARZA: Well, I think there's been a great deal of theater, Hollywood, surrounding this. To listen to the conversations on the street here in Mexico, it was a boy wants girl, girl wants movie, "Rolling Stone" wants magazine sales, and Penn wants his picture with another Latin American thug. But I think, really, it's a bit more complicated than that and we have -- and Mexicans, what they would really like to see people focus on is beyond the recapture, beyond the extradition. What is this administration doing to focus on rule of law and providing more security for the average Mexican? Creating an environment where the reform that hand been put in place can flourish and there can be economic growth. So, I think the extent that this discussion about the interview, the actress, Mr. Penn, "The Rolling Stone" has detracted from the real focus on rule of law and security in this country, Mexicans are a bit frustrated. But it certainly makes for an interesting sidebar.

PEREIRA: Well as you said, there's a whole lot of Hollywood in it, but you're right, there's a lot at play in here. Thanks so much for joining us, former ambassador Tony Garza. Thanks so much. Chris --

CUOMO: All right. So back to politics. In Iowa, a virtual tie right now, no, no, no, we're not talking about Cruz and Trump; between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Why? And what does this mean about overall chances for these two? Is Hillary Clinton a prohibitive favorite anymore? Next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have differences on guns, on taxes, on healthcare, and I think people should have that information before they go to the caucus or the primary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, Hillary Clinton has begun going after Bernie Sanders' record as yet another poll in Iowa shows Clinton and Sanders in a virtual tie in the hawk eye state. Could Sanders take the first two contests? Let's bring in New Mexico congressman, Ben Ray Lujan. He's also chairman of the democratic congressional campaign committee. Congressman, great to have you here.

REP. BEN RAY LUJAN (D), NEW MEXICO: Alisyn, great to be with you today.

CAMEROTA: Are you surprised by how tight a race this has become between Clinton and Sanders?

LUJAN: Oh, I'm never surprised by anything when it comes to elections. Especially when polls close. When you get closer to election day, polls seem to do that.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, you are truly not surprised that Hillary Clinton, who was seen as the run away favorite, months ago, is now neck and neck; in fact, Bernie Sanders, in some polls, is beating her in Iowa and New Hampshire.

LUJAN: As the electorate pays more attention, polls tighten, and that's why it's important for a candidate to be on the ground talking about real ideas and real solutions. I think that's the difference you're seeing between democrats and republicans, where at least Secretary Clinton, Governor O'Malley, and Senator Sanders are talking about ideas and how to improve people's lives as opposed to the ugly rhetoric that we're seeing, especially from Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. CAMEROTA: As you just heard there, Hillary Clinton has begun really trying to draw the distinction between herself and Bernie Sanders. She says that he has the wrong position on taxes, on guns; do you think that by talking about this and going after him in that way it will help her numbers?

LUJAN: I think it's important for our democratic candidates to continue to talk about the differences from a policy perspective. That's the contrast that Americans want to see as opposed, again, to see what Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are doing to see who can scare voters more or who can out-speak the competition, if you will, to see who can beat each other up more. I mean that's not what the Americans want to see.

CAMEROTA: You are a member of the congressional Hispanic caucus and your chair person, Linda Sanchez, has come out and endorsed Clinton. What are you waiting for?

LUJAN: I just haven't endorsed it. I think that there's plenty of time for that and maybe we'll get a chance to come back and visit with you and maybe make the announcement right here but right now I'm concentrating on all my efforts on looking at the house races and trying to understand the what the impact of a Donald Cruz, or a, sorry, that's kind of a fun thing, right? A Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz, what that combination might be, absolutely, to see what that would be, the impact that that would have on house races across America.

CAMEROTA: Well we would appreciate you coming back and sharing your thoughts when you're ready to endorse but what are you waiting for? What are you waiting to hear them say?

LUJAN: I'm not necessarily waiting for anything. I've been concentrating my efforts on making sure that we're able to pick up seats across America, show the contrast to the American people between republicans and democrats and make sure that we're able to talk about those strengths, those ideas that democrats truly have.

CAMEROTA: Hillary Clinton talking about the differences between herself and Bernie Sanders has had an unintended consequence and that is it has been a boon to fundraising for Bernie Sanders. According to his campaign, let me read to you what they just said yesterday. "Thanks, team Clinton. As of now, we are at 1.4 million raised since yesterday when the panic attacks by the Clinton campaign began. We've gotten 47,000 contributions. We're projecting 60,000 donations. Even for our people-powered campaign, this is pretty darn impressive." So there's money out there and people want to get it to whoever they think is winner is going to be and sometimes -- it is not an attack. But sometimes going after each other ends up having that result.

LUJAN: Well again, I think the real difference between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and Governor O'Malley have been an exchange of ideas on differences of policy as opposed to Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Rubio and even Governor Haley weighing in now to talk about their differences and their infighting. I'd rather have a conversation about differences from a policy perspective on how these ideas are going to make people's lives better, as opposed to these ugly attacks. There's not a person that Donald Trump hasn't attacked yet. And if you haven't been attacked, don't worry, it's coming.

CAMEROTA: So are you seeing down ticket, as they say, lower than the presidential race, the Donald Trump effect? The effect that he's having on democratic candidates and whether or not they're sort of a grassroots mobilization, a galvanization of people who want to come out for them because of Donald Trump?

LUJAN: Well I'll answer that question, Alisyn, the way that a pollster, who, speaker Paul Ryan and republicans hired to answer that question for them. The pollster said that Donald Trump would have a horrific impact on republicans' down ballot and when Paul Ryan asked the pollster, well who would be worse, Ted Cruz or Donald Trump, then they went on to say Ted Cruz would be even worse than Donald Trump. So not only did Governor Nikki Haley admit this yesterday, and she's still trying to spin her way out of this, she even knows Donald Trump is bad for republicans' down ballot.

CAMEROTA: And you're seeing evidence of that.

LUJAN: Absolutely. Across the country, you're seeing more and more voters pay more attention, getting galvanized, excitement across the country in places like New York, Virginia, Colorado, and Nevada, and so the more that Ted Trump and Donald Cruz continue to fight with one another, we're just going to see this dynamic. So look, as Donald Trump and Ted Cruz continue this dynamic, we're starting to confuse their names. They look their they're the same person anymore and as they try to compete with one another to see who can outdo one another. And that's better for democrats up and down the ballot and it's bad for house republicans.

CAMEROTA: Do you think Ted Cruz is eligible to be president?

LUJAN: Look, they're going continue these infighting, we'll see what happens. I hope that Donald Trump and Ted Cruz try to find a way to talk about ideas and solutions as opposed to this continued bickering that we're seeing and I'm sure we're going to see a lot of it tonight.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Lujan, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY. Great to have you here.

LUJAN: Great to be with you. Thanks for letting me be with you today.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news this morning so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: A series of coordinated attacks in Jakarta.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Westerners were targeted in this attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS does have a small franchise in Southeast Asia. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz. He's been really, really nice other than, last couple of days, getting a little testy.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump and other candidates in the race are being disturbed that conservatives are coming together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The State of the Union affirms one thing; we're ready for a new president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The largest lottery prize in history will be split at least three ways.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the luckiest machine on the planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to your new day. We have two breaking stories this morning. The good news, three winning tickets in that historic powerball jackpot. They're worth $1.6 billion. We're going to tell you which states are now home to the newest members of the 1 percent club. But we also have another breaking story this morning that is very, very grave. An ISIS affiliated news agency claiming a terror group carried out this morning's coordinated attacks in Jakarta, the terrorists targeting a police station and a Starbucks cafe, sending people running for their lives.

As you see on the screen right now, this cell phone video taken from a nearby office building. People running through the streets of Jakarta. Of course, the world's largest Muslim population is in this country.

CAMEROTA: Officials say the terrorists are all dead. The question now, did officials know this was coming? ISIS had made a threat ahead of the attack. So let's get right to CNN's Kathy Quiano. She's live in Jakarta for us. What's the latest, Kathy?

KATHY QUIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, certainly authorities here new there was some terror threat, but they for a very long time didn't think that existing terror groups were capable of launching another one such as this.