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New Day

Trump on Cruz: 'The Bromance is Over'; Donald Trump Weighs in on Debate; Military Aircraft Collide, Crash Off Oahu. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 15, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: ... between these two front-runners.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:05] BERMAN (voice-over): In the race between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, the current Republican frontrunners, two things now abundantly clear: it is truce off and game on.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Back in September my friend Donald said that he had his lawyers look at this from every which way. And there was nothing to this birther issue.

BERMAN: Cruz mocked questions Trump is now raising about the fact he was born in Canada and whether he is even eligible to run for president.

CRUZ: Since September, the Constitution hasn't changed, but the poll numbers have.

BERMAN: Trump acknowledged, yes, that is part of it.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because now he's doing a little bit better. No, I didn't care before.

BERMAN: But in their most pointed exchange in this race so far, he said there is more.

TRUMP: Here's the problem. We're running, we're running, he does great. I win. I choose him as my vice-presidential candidate, and the Democrats sue, because we can't take him along for the ride. I don't like that. OK?

CRUZ: Well, listen, I've spent my entire life defending the Constitution before the U.S. Supreme Court, and I'll tell you, I'm not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump.

TRUMP: You don't have to.

BERMAN: The battle moved from Canada to New York in the charge from Ted Cruz that Donald Trump represents what he calls New York values.

CRUZ: Everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage, focus around money and the media. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.

BERMAN: Trump responded, uncharacteristically somber, by invoking September 11.

TRUMP: We rebuilt downtown Manhattan, and everybody in the world watched. And everybody in the world loved New York and loved New Yorkers. And I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made.

BERMAN: For the most part, the other candidates focused their fire on the president...

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This guy is a petulant child.

BERMAN: ... and Hillary Clinton.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's under investigation with the FBI now. If she gets elected, her first 100 days, instead of setting an agenda, she might be going back and forth between the White House and the courthouse.

BERMAN: Though Chris Christie unleashed on Marco Rubio for dodging a question on entitlements.

CHRISTIE: You already had your chance, Marco. You blew it.

BERMAN: And Marco Rubio, with just a few minutes to spare in the debate, did some unleashing himself on Ted Cruz.

RUBIO: Ted Cruz, you used to say you supported doubling the number of green cards. Now you say that you're against it. You used to support a 500 percent increase in the number of guest workers. Now you say that you're against it. You used to support -- you used to support legalizing people that were here illegally. Now you say you're against it. You used to say that you were in favor of birthright citizenship. Now you say that you are against it.

BERMAN: Cruz fought to respond.

CRUZ: At least half of the things Marco said are flat-out false. They're absolutely false.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, after the candidates left the stage, Donald Trump got in a few more jabs at Ted Cruz, talking to CNN's Dana Bash in the spin room.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: How do you think it went tonight?

TRUMP: Well, I think great. Everyone said I won. Every online poll has me winning from Drudge to "TIME" to everybody. And so I'm very happy.

BASH: Do you see Ted Cruz as your biggest competition right now?

TRUMP: No, not really. I mean, we're going to see what happens. But certainly, I don't see him as my biggest competition. I see him as competition. Certainly he's competition, and others are competition. All smart people up there.

BASH: Were you surprised at the way he turned the whole birther issue around and asked about your heritage?

TRUMP: And I think he made a mistake, because, you know, first of all, he insulted 20 million New Yorkers. I think he made a lot of big -- a lot of mistakes tonight. I think it was maybe not a good performance. But we're going to have to see.

But as far as his, you know, his whole birthright and all, which is a very, very big problem. And I've been watching your reporting on it. You have a lot of lawyers that are saying that he better get himself checked out, because he's got a problem. I'm not bringing a lawsuit. But the Democrats will definitely bring a lawsuit. And if there's a 5 percent chance or even less than that that he could lose, it's a problem.

How do you pick a nominee that, in a year from now, doesn't have the right to run?

BASH: What about what Ted Cruz has said, which is you didn't bring this up until recently?

TRUMP: Because it didn't make any difference to me. I don't care.

First of all, I didn't bring it up, Dana. I wasn't the one that brought it up. "The Washington Post" asked me a question, one of 20. And it was a question. I gave them an answer. I said you have to be sure. I'm not sure.

BASH: That is true, but now you talk about it at pretty much every stop.

TRUMP: Excuse me. You asked me. I didn't bring it up.

BASH: I've been to your rallies when you're talking about it.

TRUMP: Excuse me. I didn't bring it up. And I didn't bring it up over there either. Because it was brought up by, I guess, Neil.

BASH: What do you -- how do you think that the New York thing is going to play? I mean, obviously, people in New York...

TRUMP: I think he made a terrible statement when he insulted 20 million people. I was there during this death and destruction. The World Trade Center came down, two 110-story buildings, and I was there. And New Yorkers were the bravest people that I and many others have ever seen. I was down there the day after. [07:05:06] And I want to tell you, I've never seen a sight like

it in my life. Thousands of people killed, two massive buildings down.

And the way New York came back from that and rebuilt and did it with grace, I mean, with just absolute grace, you can't make a comment like that about New York.

And the whole world was watching. Your viewers were all watching, but the whole world was watching. And I thought it was just an amazing thing. It was the greatest attack in the history of our nation, greater than Pearl Harbor, because at least there, they attacked the military. Here they attacked civilians in a building.

And I think it was a terrible thing to insult 20 million New Yorkers.

BASH: On the question about his -- his loan that he got from his wife's bank, Goldman Sachs, do you think it's a nonissue, as he's saying, because it was "The New York Times" who first reported it?

TRUMP: Well, you're going to have to figure that one out. That's a different issue. I mean, that's something that's very easy to -- they're not making it a nonissue. He's had a million dollars. He got it from Goldman Sachs.

Don't forget, Goldman Sachs loaned him money. When Goldman Sachs asks for a favor, do you think possibly he's going to do it for them? I think so. So that's the problem right there.

That's why I'm self-funding. I'm putting up my own. I'm not borrowing any money from Goldman Sachs. I put up my own money. I'll put up a lot. I'll be putting up -- I'll be putting up probably $30, $40 million before the primaries are over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much so far, you think?

TRUMP: Probably 6, 8. Yes. We just bought about -- we just bought about $6 million worth of ads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your money?

TRUMP: All mine, 100 percent.

BASH: Thirty or 40 is what you expect. What's the ceiling? What's the ceiling?

TRUMP: We're 35 million under budget. Because I thought by -- I probably January 1 we'd be in for $35 million. Maybe even a little bit more. And I spent literally nothing. So I'm 35 million under budget.

We just bought a lot of ads. We went out to the three states with, primarily the three states. We bought a lot of ads. And we're going to be doing that for about five or six weeks.

BASH: If you take it the whole way, you could have the potential to need to spend more than that. What's your ceiling?

TRUMP: I'll spend more than that. I have unlimited. I have a lot. I have unlimited. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: We have so much to talk about this morning. So let's bring in CNN political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Michael Smerconish; radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt; and CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter, Geoffrey Lord. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Hugh, I want to start with you and get your take on the debate. After the debate you tweeted out #openconvention. Does that mean that you think there were that many winners?

HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, it does, exactly, Alisyn. Donald Trump and Marco Rubio took the gold last night. They both won their respective fights. But Ted Cruz and Chris Christie were not far behind them, and Jeb Bush is hanging in there.

I will say, though, Donald Trump crushed it on New York values, but Ted Cruz crushed it on eligibility. Marco Rubio got on base every time, if I can mix some metaphors; and Chris Christie had some solid at-bats, as well. So that's why I think those four there.

But I go back to the analogy I've used all along, Joe Frazier/Muhammad Ali, fought three big fights in the '70s. Frazier won the first. Ali won the second and the third, and they were both punched out in the end.

Trump beat Cruz last night. But it was a tough fight for both guys. They have Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina ahead. Greatest race of my lifetime. Donald Trump won his race last night. Marco Rubio won his.

CAMEROTA: All right. Michael, do you agree with that assessment? What were your takeaways?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree in part, and I disagree in part.

The first thing I want to say is that each of the individuals on that stage has upped their game. I sat back last night, and I took a look. And I reflected on where we began back in the summer in that first debate. And I think they've all significantly improved. And that needs to be acknowledged.

There were no knockout blows. I want to say something. And I'm glad that Geoffrey Lord is paying attention, because I've never said this. Donald Trump won last night. I have to give him credit. He was strong. He usually gets fatigued by the end of the debates. Instead, I think that he came on stronger as it progressed. The issues were in his wheelhouse. The New York City answer was excellent. Relative to the birther disagreement, the point was never to

knock Ted Cruz out of the race. It was to knock him off balance. And he has succeeded in that, insofar as the last two weeks have been all about this.

And finally, with regard to the establishment class, I disagree with Hugh. I give it to John Kasich. I think he distinguished himself last night. I look at that Monmouth survey in New Hampshire, and I think he's the one who could emerge in New Hampshire.

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey, one of the big headlines from last night is that the bromance between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump appears to be over. Are these guys broken up for good?

GEOFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, not necessarily. But this had to come at some point. only one person is going to win this. Bromances are not going to survive any kind of election situation like this. So I really think this was inevitable.

[07:10:01] The problem, I think, first of all, no question, Donald Trump I thought won this debate. My friend Michael is dead-on correct here. And I think his New York answer was tremendous. You know, most of my family is from New York. That's certainly resonated with me. And I suspect it resonated with a lot of people who are not from New York.

But the problem, I think, for Senator Cruz with this eligibility question, it's still -- Donald Trump isn't saying, "You are not a citizen." He's saying the Democrats will sue and say that. That's correct. There's just no question here that, if Ted Cruz is on that ticket, one way or another, that there will be a lawsuit.

So I think that's -- I think that's a definite problem.

CAMEROTA: Hugh, you're -- hold on, Geoffrey. You're shaking your head dismissively. Do you think that that issue was dispensed with last night?

HEWITT: It's dead. It's done. I called up my law partner yesterday, former federal judge. All right, so he's a federal judge, Steven Larson. Used to run the United States attorney's office, organized crime division, sat on the U.S. district court for six years for George W. Bush.

I said, "Judge Larson, is there any 'there' there? What about these lawsuits?" He said they would all be dismissed immediately for political questions.

So you had a bunch of law professors around the United States who love to see their name in op-eds. Donald Trump is right to talk about Laurence Tribe. But Ted Cruz is right to say Laurence Tribe is a Hillary Clinton supporter who's trying to cause trouble.

The reality is Ted Cruz -- this is not an open question. He is eligible. Anything can sue over anything. I could sue Chris Cuomo today for bringing up bad things about the Browns every week. But I would get thrown out of court. All right? So that doesn't say. People can sue. What matters is, is there a "there" there?

So I trust Judge Larson. That issue is dead. Nevertheless, Donald Trump won the debate.

LORD: I mean, Hugh -- Hugh, respectfully, I mean, I would probably agree with you and your judge friend on this, but the point is, the political point, there would be a suit. There would be headlines. There would be time wasted. That's the problem.

HEWITT: No. No, I know there won't.

CAMEROTA: All right, go -- Michael, be the tiebreaker. Is this going to go on? Does this have legs or was it done last night?

SMERCONISH: I don't think it's about the legality or his eligibility. And again, right now, I'm sure Donald Trump is watching this and chuckling, because here we are again debating an issue that, frankly, is not the crux of what he's trying to say.

What I think is going on here is that he's trying to paint Ted Cruz, much like he painted Barack Obama, as an "other." He's not one of us. He was born somewhere else. And every day that we talk about this, I think he underscores that with a handful of folks in Iowa.

CAMEROTA: I want to go to you, Hugh. Because I saw you sort of scoff when Michael Smerconish said that he thought that Kasich turned in a great performance.

Let's talk about some of the other people on stage beyond Cruz and Trump. What did you think of John Kasich, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, Hugh?

HEWITT: John Kasich is my governor; he's my friend from Ohio. I have Ohio values, and they're the same as New York values and California values or American values.

John Kasich did very well last night with what he planned to do. He is doggedly sticking to the experience card. And he brings up the same script. So it must work in the town halls in New Hampshire that I don't go to, and he must be banking on it. Because he does not depart from it.

It doesn't play for me on television. I don't think it plays for the national audience. I don't think it plays in Iowa. But maybe it plays in New Hampshire.

Dr. Carson has faded. All right? I just don't see him as being a force in this.

And I think Jeb Bush almost faded, but he climbed back into the ring a couple of times. Very deftly when he brought up our Muslim allies in Indonesia, our Muslim friends who are in India. The need for security, the defense build-up.

But the big four, I think there's one tier at the top, and it's Trump, Cruz, Rubio and Christie. And the top two are Trump and Rubio right now, with Ted Cruz, got a rematch coming up next week with -- with Donald Trump. I expect more sparks.

CAMEROTA: Michael, I know you always have your white board of who's up, who's down. Who do you think moved the needle last night?

SMERCONISH: I think that Donald Trump probably held firm in Iowa. It all comes down, I think, to whether he can turn those folks out at a caucus. They're not going to sit on their sofas, check a box and put it in the mail.

Do they have the requisite passion to come out and translate into votes? That's the big "X" the unknown, relative to Trump.

I think that Marco Rubio, you know, he's great on his feet. Going after Ted Cruz, though, perhaps in the 11th hour last evening, I don't think it's wise strategy. Because to the extent that he brings Cruz down a notch or two, I don't think it inures to his benefit. I think he's helping Donald Trump.

And I stand firm with what I said earlier, Hugh, relative to John Kasich. I believe he's most adult-like on that stage, and he's hindered only by his reluctance to be a bomb thrower, is what you need to do, unfortunately, in this primary.

CAMEROTA: So Geoffrey, let's finish with this about the ground game. So do you have confidence that Donald Trump is going to be able to turn people out in Iowa to the caucuses? Because slogans are great; his performance in the debate, great; people say that he won last night. But of course, it all comes down to whether or not people are willing to go out in the cold and actually be organizing caucus.

[07:15:10] LORD: That's right. That's right.

Alisyn, someone sent a tweet to me a couple weeks ago of people attending a Donald Trump rally in Iowa. And the line was out this auditorium around the block. And the tag line was, "By the way, it's 25 degrees here." That indicates to me a degree of passion here with Trump folks that you would think would lead them to turn out. I mean, if they're turning out and standing in the cold to go to a rally, I suspect they might do the same.

But of course, we're going to find out. We're never going to know until we get to the night of.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

LORD: One last thing about Governor Christie. I was really surprised he denied that he had supported Judge Sotomayor for the Supreme Court. I happened to have written a column about this last week for "The American Spectator." He said, if he were President Obama, he wouldn't have appointed her. But after listening to her testimony in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee, he was all for her. So in fact, Marco Rubio was correct about that.

CAMEROTA; I was going to end it there, but Michael, I see you nodding. So did he catch Cruz in some flip-flops? SMERCONISH: You know, there's a journalist in New Jersey named

Matt Katz who, I think, knows more, has covered more about Chris Christie than anyone else. And in the midst of the debate, I tweeted at him last night, relative to Justice Sotomayor but relative to Planned Parenthood, because I wanted to be reminded of the facts.

Chris Christie flat out denies having written a check to Planned Parenthood. Go back and look at "The Star-Ledger." They've written exhaustively on the subject. I think he'd do better, if he frankly said, "Yes, at one point in my life that was my perspective. I changed over time. Here's why."

CUOMO: Right.

SMERCONISH: But to say they misquoted me, the fact checkers are going to have their work to do.

CAMEROTA: Hugh, so that -- so Chris Christie was fact checked, that's true, last night. But what about when Marco Rubio went down that sort of litany of things that he said Ted Cruz had flip-flopped his positions on?

HEWITT: Using my boxing analogy, in the 15th round, Marco Rubio laid one on Ted Cruz.

But here's the deal about fact checkers. Nick Kristof, a terrific columnist for "The New York Times," tweeted out that Donald Trump said, in fact, in his hearing that he wanted a 45 percent tariff. Fact checking doesn't matter in these things. What matters is personality, an aura and your command presence.

And of all those two, the best command presence last night was Donald Trump and Marco Rubio. And I keep marveling at how Donald Trump can dominate a television screen. He reaches through the screen sometimes, and you know, you're back on "Celebrity Apprentice." It's an amazing skill set.

And so whether or not he said 45 percent or not, or whether or not Chris Christie said, "I like Alison Sotomayor. I would vote for her." or whether or not Ted Cruz said this or that on H-1B visas, none of that stuff matters when you go to vote.

What matters is who can beat Hillary Clinton? That's the bottom line for Republican voters. And now my friends here both are going to support, I assume -- Geoffrey is -- I'm not sure about Michael. We'll let Michael decide for himself. He might have gone over to the dark side. But we'll decide who's going to vote -- who can beat Hillary Clinton, and right now, that's open question.

CAMEROTA: Fact checking doesn't matter. We have to...

SMERCONISH: When somebody says the facts don't matter, if someone says the facts don't matter, I would suggest...

HEWITT: I didn't say that. I said fact checkers don't matter.

CAMEROTA: You said fact checking doesn't matter. Truer words during this election probably never spoken.

Michael, Hugh, Geoffrey, thank you so much. See you guys soon.

All right. Well, she wasn't on the main stage, but coming up in our next hour, we will speak with Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina about how she did last night.

CUOMO: All right. We do have breaking news in to CNN. The Coast Guard says two military aircraft have gone down after colliding just north of Hawaii's Oahu Island. There is a search underway for personnel.

Let's bring in Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, what do we know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

This information just breaking here at the Pentagon this morning. What we do know is about 4 a.m. Eastern Time, the Coast Guard in Hawaii got a call in from the Marine Corps, telling them that they believe there had been a midair collision of two aircraft.

The search now underway as you say, off the north shore of Oahu Island. They are looking, we are told by the Coast Guard, for the possibility of 12 people. Each aircraft believed to have had six on board.

It is believed that they did collide somehow. The information coming in very sketchy, but the Coast Guard spokesman out there tells CNN they have located a debris field. They believe they've seen an empty life raft, the possibility of a fire.

So a very difficult situation. Still dark, of course, out in Hawaii. But a full search now underway. Two aircraft colliding, believed to be a total of 12 on board those two aircraft -- Chris.

[07:20:07] CUOMO: Again, we are being told, as Barbara just reported, they are searching a debris field. They have seen an empty life raft. But we are waiting on word for those personnel.

Barbara, what you hear, please pass it along so we can get the information out -- Mick

PEREIRA: All right. Well, is the bromance over? Maybe. We don't know. But the push for Iowa certainly is picking up steam. Did Ted Cruz put the birther issue to rest last night in the debate? We're going to ask a top Iowa congressman who is backing Ted Cruz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Another big night. Fair to say the candidates were all on their game on the main stage. But the real fight was front and center, and it went all night long. Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Here's some of their sparring.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CRUZ: I recognize that Donald is dismayed that his poll numbers

are falling in Iowa. But the facts and the law here are really quite clear. Under longstanding U.S. law, the child of a U.S. citizen born abroad is a natural-born citizen.

I would note that the birther theories that Donald has been relying on, some of the more extreme ones insist that you must not only be born on U.S. soil but have two parents born on U.S. soil. Under that theory, not only would I be disqualified, Marco Rubio would be disqualified, Bobby Jindal would be disqualified, and interestingly enough, Donald J. Trump would be disqualified.

[07:25:21] TRUMP: In Iowa now, as you know, Ted, in the last three polls, I'm beating you. So, you know, you shouldn't misrepresent how well you're doing with the polls. You don't have to say that. In fact, I was all for you until you started doing that, because that's a misrepresentation, No. 1.

No. 2, this isn't me saying it. I don't care. I think I'm going to win fair and square. I don't have to win this way. Thank you. Laurence Tribe, and numerous from Harvard -- of Harvard said that there is a serious question as to whether or not Ted can do this, OK?

There are other attorneys that feel -- and very, very fine constitutional attorneys -- that feel that, because he was not born on the land, he cannot run for office.

Here's the problem. We're running, we're running, he does great. I win. I choose him as my vice-presidential candidate, and the Democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. I don't like that. OK?

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX BUSINESS ANCHOR: Why are you raising this issue now?

TRUMP: Because now he's doing a little bit better. No, I didn't care before. It's true. No, it's true.

Hey, look, he never had a chance. Now he's doing better. He's got probably a 4 or 5 percent chance.

CAVUTO: You want to respond?

CRUZ: Well, listen, I've spent my entire life defending the Constitution before the U.S. Supreme Court. And I'll tell you, I'm not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump.

TRUMP: You don't have to. Take it from Laurence Tribe. You don't have to.

CRUZ: But I will tell you also...

TRUMP: Take it from your professor. Take it from your law professor.

CRUZ: The chances of any litigation proceeding and succeeding on this are zero.

TRUMP: He's wrong. It's wrong.

CRUZ: And Mr. Trump is very focused on Larry Tribe. Let me tell you who Larry Tribe is. He's a left-wing judicial activist Harvard Law professor who was Al Gore's lawyer in Bush versus Gore. He's a major Hillary Clinton supporter, and there's a reason why Hillary supporters are echoing Donald's attacks on me.

TRUMP: He is not the only one.

CRUZ: Hillary wants to face Donald Trump in the general election.

TRUMP: He's not the only one. There are many lawyers.

CRUZ: And I'll tell you what, Donald. You very kindly just a moment ago offered me the V.P. slot. I'll tell you what. If this all works out, I'm happy to consider naming you as V.P. And if you happen to be right, you could get the top job at the end of the day.

TRUMP: No, listen. I like that. I like it. I'd consider it. But I think I'll go back to building buildings if it doesn't work out.

CRUZ: Actually, I'd like to get you to build a wall.

TRUMP: I have a feeling -- I have a feeling it's going to work out, actually.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: I'm serious, right? They were out last night in a way they had not been before. Who won, who didn't? What will this mean in Iowa, just 17 days away?

Let's discuss with Iowa Congressman Steve King, chairman of the Conservative Opportunity Society, has endorsed Ted Cruz for president.

Happy new year. Haven't seen you since the new year. Congressman, good to have you on. I saw you getting some chuckles in there last night. How did you feel that the Texas senator, Ted Cruz, did in authenticating his eligibility and comporting himself the rest of the night on the big stage, with the focus on him?

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Well, Chris, I thought that that exchange that you had just run, I'm standing here -- we were just laughing at how deftly that was handled.

And of course, I have read the scholarship on this and the constitutional components of it. And I absolutely believe that Ted Cruz is 100 percent right on this. And I thought he handled it well, and he showed his sense of humor. He showed his intellect.

And then, when he offered to consider Donald Trump for vice president, that would be a path to the presidency if Trump was right, I thought it closed the argument really well. And when Trump said, "I'll go back to building buildings, that

was a kind of a retreat from that engage -- in that engagement." That didn't mean that Trump was going to stay out of those engagements with Cruz for the rest of the night, however. But on that one, I think that's what closed it up, a Trump retreat when he said, "I'll go back to building buildings."

I would just -- there's a point here, too, that I think the public did not hear in the debate last night. It's important to understanding what a natural-born citizen is. And that is this, that there's only two ways to be a citizen of the United States. And you're either natural-born or naturalized.

Now, no one challenges Cruz's citizenship. That's stipulated. And so the question is, is he natural-born or naturalized? Well, because he is not naturalized, by default he's a natural-born citizen. That's what our Founding Fathers had in mind when they put that language into our Constitution. And they wanted to make sure that a president was raised with an American experience. They didn't write that stipulation in there, but that was their intent: raised with an American experience so the allegiance would to be this country.

CUOMO: I have to say that, looking at the law, as we all are right now, and as a lawyer myself, I'm not going to argue with your conclusion, but I will say it's a little interesting to hear you talking about the Founders when we both know that this was designed for a very different time...