Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Trump: "The People inn NY Fought" After 9/11; Where Does Race Go From Here?; Governor Cuomo Responds to Cruz's "New York Values" Comment; Iranian Video Shows U.S. Sailors Captive On Knees; Will Incident With Iran Impact Nuclear Deal?; Bush: China Would "Retaliate" If Tax Their Imports

Aired January 15, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: But I will say, it's a little interesting to hear you talking about the founders when we both know that this was designed for a very different time that never contemplated this. This was about who could run for president back then, assuming that most of the men hadn't been born in America yet because she was so young. But that said, most lawyers are exactly where you are on the conclusion. Now the other big blow last night was about New York values.

We both know that saying New York values is often pejorative code in politics that conservatives like to use. We won't get into why and how it is pejorative but Donald Trump last night seemed to win over the audience and a lot of people watching by defending New York. How did you feel about that? You've come to New York, I've seen you here. You've got good ties in this city. Do you think the senator, Ted Cruz, went too far?

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Well I didn't think he went too far until I saw Donald Trump's reaction, and then I thought it would have been better on the part of Ted Cruz not to have had that exchange. I thought it was one of the times when you saw Donald Trump actually show you more of his heart than we've seen on the campaign trail. He meant what he said, you could tell he was reliving some of the pain of September 11, 2001, but he really flipped that. Ted Cruz didn't go there but Donald Trump elected to go into the September 11 and the damage and suffering and the thousands of people that were killed and he turned that into an emotional component of the debate, and that, I believe, was good for Trump.

I sent out a tweet after that last night and I said I thought it was a terrific debate. It was like Ali versus Frazier. Those were classical fights and I thought that Ali won on points if he didn't score the blows below the belt. And I thought when some of those punches were a little below the belt when he brought up September 11 because there's no way to defend yourself from that. That wasn't the topic. He just adopted it and brought it in but he did it so deftly, I don't think that that perception, actually, most people caught it that way.

CUOMO: Well if Trump is Ali in your analogy, you've got trouble in the outcome of that because we know how it all ended there. Not just the Thrilla in Manila, but Ali took two out of three. KING: Cruz is Ali.

CUOMO: Oh, I see. Good fix.

Yes, that's how I had it in mind because Ali was so precise, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, he had all the tools to work with, and Frazier just went in there and slugged it out and he did it by heart. And so that's how I see those two. I think Trump slugs it out and lands some body blows but I think that the one that floats and stings really is Ted Cruz.

CUOMO: All right, nobody understands the ground game in Iowa better than you. Ted Cruz is known to have a strong ground game. They dedicated a lot of resources. Is it true that Donald Trump isn't strong on the ground there? That is the speculation, it's hard to quantify. What do you know?

KING: Of course, I pick up network discussion of the political network in Iowa and we've got people over most of the state. They're wired in with people all over the state. I would say this, that Cruz's headquarters and his ground game are bee hives of activity. The phones are, it's hard to get a phone to be able to go in and volunteer and make calls because there are other volunteers that want to do that, too.

A lot of people have come up from Texas to pour in on that. He's got his bunk house and I just overheard a conversation when I was on the bus with him last week, how are they going to house all the volunteers? They've run out of room. That doesn't mean more people shouldn't come. They'll find the room and so then you pick up information out of Trump's headquarters that there are a few people in there working but it's not a bee hive of activity. I do hear, though, that he's identified a lot of potential caucus-goers in large numbers and now can they get them turned out and how will they do that? There's a mailing list going out, I know it came to my kitchen table from Trump. Nice letter. And it asked to fill out a post card and promise that you'll go there and caucus for Donald Trump.

So I don't know. I know this, that Trump has one of the top ground game operators that he hired back last spring and I can't imagine that there's not going to be an intense turnout effort that has been planned and strategized all along throughout this campaign. I wouldn't discount Trump's ability on this. I think he'll have a turnout effort. But if it's a magnificent one that we've never been seen before, Trump can win Iowa. Otherwise I think that Cruz wins it in a squeaker and then I think that Rubio will be a distant third.

CUOMO: Congressman, appreciate it as always. See you in Iowa. Mich --

KING: My pleasure, thanks, Chris.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: All right, so Chris -- you know we had three winning powerball tickets? Well apparently the Tennessee winner has come forward. We now know who they are. We have details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of New York but everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage, focused around money or the media.

And I guess I can frame it another way. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: All right. That was the end of the heated exchange last night between Donald Trump and Senator Ted Cruz about New York values. On the phone to respond is New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo. Good morning, Governor.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: Good morning, Alisyn, how are you?

CAMEROTA: I'm well. You, of course, are a lifelong New Yorker. How do you define New York values?

A. CUOMO: The exact opposite thing of what you heard last night coming out of Ted Cruz's mouth. I not only, to what he said anti-New York, it's anti-American, Alisyn. I think it's sad, I think it's disturbing for all Americans, not just for New York. He is practicing the politics of division. He's trying to divide people. He's trying to divide this country. It doesn't work and it's antithetical to who we are. In 30 seconds, he offended gays, he offended women, he offend 18 million people and he offended the largest, or one of the largest congressional delegations in this country. You can't govern like that. You can't win a campaign like that. And he's only getting worse and the discussion is only degenerating.

CAMEROTA: But Governor, you -- Cruz isn't alone. I mean, much of America agrees with him. You really can't say that New York City necessarily shares the same values as say, Cincinnati or Dallas or Kansas City. New York is more liberal than other places in the heartland, isn't it?

A. CUOMO: Oh, you think the rest of the country is anti-gay, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Very clever, Governor, but the point is that they do have different values. Look. They're on a different part of the political spectrum. You know that.

A. CUOMO: No. What he said -- he was offensive to gays. I don't believe this country is hostile to gays. I don't believe it's hostile to women and the concept of this country is, we accepted people from different religions, different countries, and we made one. E pluribus unam. Out of many, one. We invite all in and we forge one country, one nation. This is the opposite. This is,I'm going to try to divide us one by one, and pro-choice women from anti-choice women, and straight people from gay people. And it's disturbing and it doesn't work. This is why this country is gridlocked, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Governor --

A. CUOMO: Because the division is polarizing people.

CAMEROTA: But Governor, what did you think of Donald Trump's response where he invoked 9/11?

A. CUOMO: Well, 9/11, to your point, people have negative feelings towards New York. You never saw a more nationally unifying moment than 9/11. The entire country showed up for New York. So as a symbol of the unity that this country believes in, which is opposite the rhetoric you're hearing, 9/11 is one of the symbols of that.

CAMEROTA: Governor, we know you, of course, are a champion of New York. We appreciate you sharing your strong passion this morning with us.

A. CUOMO: I found it very upsetting if you can't tell, by the way.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I am picking up what you're putting down. You were very upset about it and we appreciate you weighing in on this and sharing your perspective. Thanks so much.

A. CUOMO: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn, there are questions stirring about Iran with the nuclear deal set to take effect this weekend. Can't Iran be trusted after seemingly embarrassing the U.S. by detaining soldiers? We're talking to a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The deal on Iran's nuclear program about to take effect despite the detention of ten U.S. sailors. So can Iran be trusted on the nuclear accord? Joining us now is former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, John Negroponte. Mr. ambassador, thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY. Do you see the fact that Iran detained these U.S. sailors plus took a video of them and released it as Iran thumbing its nose at the U.S.?

JOHN NEGROPONTE, FORMER U.S. AMBASADOR TO IRAQ: Well, when you look back at some of the past incidents in history, whether it was the hostage crisis in Tehran itself a number of years back or the seizing of the pueblo by North Korea in 1968 where they held people prisoner for 11 months, I think we ought to be thankful that this incident was over in less than 24 hours. If they'd wanted to make a real issue out of this, they would have held these people a long time and sought to embarrass us in this election period as has been done in the past. So frankly, I think they wanted to get it over with just as quickly as we did and with a bit of good diplomacy between Secretary Kerry and his Iranian counterpart, they did just that.

CAMEROTA: Everyone is relieved that it didn't last long and that it was only a 24-hour incident, however, people do see it differently than you do, including the GOP candidates. They talked about it at the debate. They do think that it was an embarrassment to the U.S. and they even went so far as to say that it was a violation of the Geneva conventions. Do you agree?

NEGROPONTE: I'm not certain. I don't know all the circumstances of the case. I don't know under what circumstances these people were holding up their hands. Was it when the boat was first boarded by Iranians or what? But we'll see, all that will come out in the investigation. But I think that loses sight of the strategic point about the quickness of the release. Again, I'm not saying that Iran behaved perfectly by any means. And I know that we would not have done that in similar circumstances. And so in that sense, it is definitely an embarrassing episode. But it passed so quickly that I think we got to keep our eyes on that rather key strategic fact.

CAMEROTA: Well, but the fact that their inclination was to humiliate the U.S. or to at least exploit these sailors on video, what does that say for any goodwill between the U.S. and Iran?

NEGROPONTE: Well I'm not expecting a great deal of goodwill between our two countries. I think this agreement has got to be implemented. They seem to be complying so far but we're going to have to verify it every step of the way. There are strong international verification mechanisms. They have already taken steps to reduce the number of centrifuges they have to get rid of some of that highly enriched uranium. But we're going to have to keep their feet to the fire. This isn't about some kind of new romantic relationship with Iran. This is a very business-like and important deal that is, at the very least, delaying the development of

their military nuclear program. You and I know that it's going to be a number of years before we know whether or not they ultimately choose to develop a military program or not. But for the moment, that's on suspense and that's a positive thing.

CAMEROTA: So you believe that if they weren't about to get this cash infusion with sanctions being lifted this week, that this could have ended very differently?

NEGROPONTE: Well, people have speculated that and I do believe that is a distinct possibility. Let's say we hadn't had the nuclear negotiations and we were still in a relationship of much higher tension between the two countries. It's utterly -- it's completely conceivable that they would have held on to these people for a longer amount of time. I have no doubt about that.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador John Negroponte, thanks so much for sharing your expertise with us on NEW DAY. Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. Did Jeb Bush break through at last night's debate or is his campaign on life support? We're going to speak to a former advisor to Jeb's father, former governer of New Hampshire, John Sununu.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

C. CUOMO: Did you see the debate last night? It got hot. It was literally fast and furious going on there. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz definitely trading blows about birther but it went way beyond that as well. What about Jeb Bush? What about Chris Christie? What about Governor Kasich as well? All governors, three? Who distinguished themselves last night and who wound up being relegated to a secondary position? For perspective, former New Hampshire Governor, former Chief of Staff to President George H. W. Bush, John Sununu. Governer, it's good to have you with us.

JOHN SUNUNU, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE: Good morning, Chris. How are you?

C. CUOMO: So what did you think watching the debate last night? Everybody's casting it as a two man battle now that it is Cruz versus Trump. Maybe Rubio comes up as the establishment choice. How do you see it?

SUNUNU: Well there was a lot of energy last night and I think it's because the candidates are beginning to understand that at least for a while longer, if not even longer than a while, the republican voters are saying, show me your anger. And that anger is supposed to, and is in fact, Trumping -- using that verb, Trumping either philosophy or position. And so I think that brought out the energy last night. I think the only thing that was really new, though, was Neil Cavuto getting out of Trump that he might impose a 45 percent tariff on Chinese goods and then Bush jumped in, Jeb jumped in and I think correctly pointed out that if you did that, the Chinese would retaliate with the equivalent tariff and that would hurt Iowa's agricultural exports and Boeing out of South Carolina, their aircraft exports. So it would be interesting to see if anybody ends up with an ad using that factoid, if you will, in Iowa.

C. CUOMO: You have not formally endorsed but you have been outspoken about your support of former Florida governor, Jeb Bush. He has been unable to get traction despite all the money, despite all of the effort, and media opportunities increasing as well. Why do you think that is? I know you haven't endorsed but why do you think Jeb Bush hasn't been able to catch on?

SUNUNU: Well I've been supporting the idea that the republicans ought to choose amongst the governors that you mentioned at the beginning, and Jeb certainly is one of them and I think he'd be a very good president. I think his problem has been that he -- in a way his problem is that he knows too much about the issues. And when you ask him a question, he tends to go too much into details rather than giving you an answer that kicks off a positive emotional response and he's getting better at it. I thought he did a little better job at that last night but I think in this campaign where on the republican side it's anger and on the democratic side it's what I call a pander fest, where the candidates are soliciting votes by telling people what they are going to do for them and what they are going to do against the others, so to speak.

This is an emotional campaign on both sides and I just don't think the governors that are running who have prided themselves on the quality of their performance back in their state have been able to get beyond talking about performance and really reflecting the anger and the emotion that the voters want to see right now.

C. CUOMO: Well Governor, isn't that de facto, by definition, pandering? That you know people are angry so that's what you do is stoke their anger the entire time and when you talk about others, who's been bringing up others more than the the republican candidates? Whether it's villainizing immigrants, villainizing refugees, villainizing Muslims, that doesn't seem to be the democrat bailiwick, at least right now.

SUNUNU: No,that's really what's upsetting me as a republican, that the republican voters are giving brownie points, positive points, for that kind of an emotional campaign. And as I say, I've been trying to urge folks to pay attention to philosophy and positions and performance and capacity to accomplish things because I'm scared to death, Chris, that if we end up with a pair of campaigns that are purely emotional in base, that you are going to end up with a third party candidate and it will be a real circus.

C. CUOMO: No, I was pushing back because you had said the democrats were the ones pandering. I would argue their playing to anger is the biggest definition of pandering here and certainly that's happening more on the right than the left, at least for now. Here's an irony, though; Donald Trump --

SUNUNU: I was talking about economic pandering.

C. CUOMO: I got you. Thank you very much, governor, for the clarification. The biggest moment for Trump last night may have been something that is very ironic given what we're discussing as context. He won on the New York values criticism from Ted Cruz. He did it by talking about inclusion. By talking about the sweetness of strength in the worst of times. Speak to that irony, that Donald Trump, someone who's been stoking anger as much as anybody, actually wound up winning last night by being inclusive and by showing the sweetness of strength, and is that a message to what he should be about and the campaign should be more about going forward?

SUNUNU: Well it was a very good move on his part. I think Cruz blew the point he was trying to make. I think Cruz was trying to point out Trump's history of being liberal and not a conservative and now in this campaign, Trump is trying to talk as a conservative. I think he made -- Cruz made a serious mistake from the get-go starting about a week ago or a few days ago when he threw out that phrase. That's not a good phrase to use and you're right -- Trump pointed out that after 9/11, New York showed its better side and as you know, I grew up in New York and I understood that answer very well.

C. CUOMO: Governor Sununu, thank you very much. We started off this campaign with you being highly skeptical of Trump's longevity and yet still he's here.

SUNUNU: It's amazing.

C. CUOMO: We look forward to seeing your take as we closer and closer to super Tuesday. Thank you, governor. We have a lot more on the debate last night. There were more than two people on that stage last night and there was a debate before it and once again, Carly Fiorina scored big. She said things that people are talking about today so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who the hell knows if you can even serve in office?

CRUZ: Since September, the constitution hasn't changed -- but the poll numbers have.

TRUMP: Go out, get a declaratory judgment --

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hate to interrupt this episode of court TV --

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENIAL CANDIDATE: I am very happy to get a question this early on --

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Unlike another woman in this race, I actually love spending time with my husband.

TRUMP: So I guess the bromance is over. I mean there's no reason for him to go that aggressive. Certainly I don't see him as my biggest --