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New Day

Republican Debate; "Sunshine Superman"; Sean Penn Breaks His Silence on "El Chapo': Academy Nominates All White Actors for Second Straight Year. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 15, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: New York and love New Yorkers. And I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Harshness and exclusion, returned and defeated with inclusion and sweet strength. An unlikely messenger given the current context of the campaign. But do you believe this is instructive of what ultimately wins in any debate like we're having right now?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's a - yes, I think that's an important quality to have to be able to turn a question like that and go big. But it was kind of stunning given Donald Trump's performance in this campaign, that he was the one who did it. And I think it actually was an important moment for him to show that he had that kind of range. It also gave him a rootedness that he's been missing. So I actually think that was - that was a very big moment. I tweeted at that moment as a native New Yorker that I appreciated what he said. And I just wondered how the base would take it. Because, you know, what Cruz was doing. Cruz was saying, oh, yes, so you think I'm from Canada, you're - it's worse, you're from New York.

CUOMO: Right.

AXELROD: And with all of the implications, as you say, that that carries. And I think it was more than that. I think it was a little bit of a signification to those social conservatives in Iowa that his values are not your values. But Trump I thought turned the moment very effectively.

CUOMO: And I think that it was right that it was Trump because of the energy he's put in to fomenting the anger and the fear and the anxiety in the country. That even from him, when somebody goes to what is America's true strength, right, which is respect of its inclusiveness, respect of its ability to come together, even when it comes from Donald Trump, it still winds up owning the moment. Let's see if that's a lesson going forward.

On that stage last night, David -

AXELROD: I think - you know, Chris, let me just -

CUOMO: Please. AXELROD: Let me make one more point on this.

CUOMO: Please.

AXELROD: The last - the last time 9/11 came up in a debate Trump used it to talk about the illusory thousands who stood up in Jersey -

CUOMO: Right.

AXELROD: Thousands of Muslims who cheered when the towers went down. That was a small moment for him. That was a divisive moment for him. This was a different kind of moment.

CUOMO: Absolutely. Well said. I think it just speaks to the power of that message, no matter who the messenger is.

So on the stage last night, everybody's teeing up Cruz versus Trump, seeing that the senator dispatched the eligibility argument very well. But do you think it is really a two man race now or is that way too soon to say?

AXELROD: I think it's too soon to say but I think that it is certainly narrowing down to that. When you look at the polling, there's some new polling out this morning where they're - the two of them are holding more than a majority. You know, Marco Rubio showed some - you know, he was over torqued I thought a little bit last night, but he's trying desperately to have his name in that same conversation. He has to do well in Iowa and New Hampshire to get a pass into the finals. But it really seems to be boiling down to those two, which for the Washington establishment is like a choice between a punch in the nose and a knee to the groin. These Washington Republicans don't know what to do. But that really seems to be where the Republican race is going.

CUOMO: Other side of the aisle. There are questions about tone now there and tenacity as well. Hillary Clinton seems to be targeting Bernie Sanders with more vehemence. We have a clip of her taking to the lighter side of things, and that's something that's been very important for her tone as well. Here's her latest appearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was just wondering, does that - does he intimidate you, Donald Trump?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's (INAUDIBLE). That's what - that's what I - you just gave me the look.

CLINTON: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just gave me the look and -

CLINTON: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that just intimidated me, that look right there, yes.

CLINTON: Yes, it's - yes, I mean if I'm so fortune -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CLINTON: To be the Democratic nominee, obviously I'll run against whoever they nominate. But if it's Donald Trump, it will be quite the showdown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What do you make of these appearances for Hillary, and she's been doing a lot more lighter side stuff than she has been, sitting down with people like us. What's the plus or minus on it?

AXELROD: Look, I think that there's - that it's mostly plus. It's a chance - these shows - we always - when I was working for the president and we'd put him on these shows, people would question whether it was presidential and why are we doing this, but it is a chance to speak, a, to a different audience and, b, to a different side of yourself. You get a chance to show your humanity. You get a chance to show your humor. And in her case that's very important because those are qualities that she has that don't always come to the fore when she's on the stump. So I really think that these are important for her. That's not to say that she shouldn't sit with you guys, which, of course, is the primary thing she should be doing. Did I do that OK?

CUOMO: That was awesome.

AXELROD: But - but, yes, good. So - but I thought she made the most of that appearance last night.

CUOMO: Do you think when we see them on the stage on Sunday, three of them obviously, but really it will be about two for the most part, do you think we're going to see them go at it for the first time, the senator from Vermont and the secretary from New York?

[08:35:13] AXELROD: Well, it sure seems headed that way. Look, there's one great accelerant when it comes to these debates, and that is close poll numbers as the election approaches. You look at the numbers. "The Des Moines Register," which has really the most reliable poll in Iowa, came out yesterday and said basically it was a virtual tie in Iowa between Clinton and Bernie Sanders. And you can see that in the last week she's really picked up her rhetoric. There's been a lot of back and forth.

The question is, what does Sanders do? Hillary Clinton is perfectly capable of taking it right to him. And she's done it at times. But he's been reticent about firing back in these debates. He pulled up short on the e-mail question. There have been other invitations to go after her where he stopped short of being really, really pointed with her. Will that change now especially given the tone that she's taken?

I think they both have to be careful because the truth is they're both enormously popular with Democrat Whenever wins, and I suspect it's going to be Hillary Clinton, is going to have to put the party back together after that process. So you want to be careful about how you approach - how you approach these debates.

CUOMO: David Axelrod, thank you so much, as always. Appreciate it. Have a good weekend, sir.

AXELROD: OK, brother. Good to be with you.

CUOMO: Always.

AXELROD: Thank you, you to.

CUOMO: Mic.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Speaking of weekend Chris, this weekend CNN's going to take you on the death defying thrill ride, introducing you to the so called father of base jumping. He lived and died his passion. We're going to give you a preview of a CNN film, "Sunshine Superman."

And an invitation to join our CNN family as we share our special someone with you. "The Person Who Changed My Life" is a week long event starting this Sunday. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: My son helped make me change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people changed lives.

ALISYN CAMEROA, CNN ANCHOR: Can you believe we're back here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Join the familiar faces of CNN as they share their special someone with you.

PEREIRA: The voyage that your suggestion sent me on.

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": And I learned this from you, you have to ask important questions on the most important issues of the day.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, CNN'S "LEGAL VIEW": And without my mom, I am certain I would not be where I am.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If you were to ask them, how important a mentor? And if they told you, yes, not that important, it probably means they never had a great mentor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look what I've got.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that the letter?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the letter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You found it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Very few people who tell you the truth. And you do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Person Who Changed My Life," a week long CNN event starts Sunday on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:40] CAMEROTA: Have you ever been tempted to parachute off a cliff?

CUOMO: Nope.

CAMEROTA: A new CNN film, "Sunshine Superman," profiles the fascinating man credited with putting base jumping on the map. CNN's Martin Savidge joins us now with a preview.

Hey, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Yes, I mean this is the same feeling I have with Chris. It's like, who in the world would do this? But when you look at the videos that are out there online, it is absolutely stunning to see. And even a guy like me, who's afraid of heights, was kind of tempted. But there is a dark side.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's do this.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Base jumping is the world's most extreme and forbidden sport. No wonder Hollywood loves it. In the newly released Warner Brothers movie "Point Break," six base jumpers jumped 60 times to create one amazing scene.

JEB CORLISS, "POINT BREAK" TECHNICAL ADVISOR: It doesn't look but it's almost too spectacular, but it is all real. When you see a person a foot off the ground, that's because they're a foot off the ground.

SAVIDGE: It's a long way from the late '70s when the father of base jumping, Carl Boenish, strapped a movie camera to his head and dove from a cliff in Yosemite.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in the day, you know, you put this on your head -

SAVIDGE: Three things are fueling the sport's popularity, two of which had nothing to do with jumping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, we can put forward-facing. You can do what's called the unicorn cam, where there's a poll that - that, you know, so you can film your head and your body flying through stuff. SAVIDGE: Relatively inexpensive mini cameras, such as GoPros, allow

base jumpers to capture their stunning, death-defying stunts. And thanks to the Internet, they share their video with the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A parachute's two rigs, so you can do -

SAVIDGE: Base jumping's third leap forward, the wing suit.

SAVIDGE (on camera): And you wear it almost like a coat. I mean it looks like that.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): The wing suit gives modern base jumpers much more maneuverability, transforming what was once just falling into flying.

JIMMY POUCHERT, BASE JUMPER: When you're flying a hundred miles an hour down through the trees and over the ground and out into the beautiful Swiss Valley, there's nothing like it.

SAVIDGE: All three advances have made more people want to take up the sport. And as its popularity rises, so does the death toll, in what was already perhaps the world's deadliest pass time.

DR. OMER MEI-DAN, ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON: Almost eight or nine out of ten base jumpers who would die in base jumping would be associated - that would be associated with - with flight (ph).

SAVIDGE (on camera): Adrenaline isn't the only thing propelling some base jumpers. There's also the lure of big money from corporate sponsors.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Companies like Brightling (ph) and Red Bull pay these extreme athletes to push the envelope, helping to fund jet- propelled wing suits. And perhaps the most extreme jump of all, from the edge of space.

Carl Boenish, who started all of this died on a jump in 1984. But base jumpers Jimmy Pouchert thinks he'd be thrilled to see how the sport he helped start has taken off.

POUCHERT: Carl would love where it's gone. I think he'd also be very interested to see how many people are in it and how many people want to do it.

SAVIDGE: Those who do it say base jumping is not about living life on the edge, but going over it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:44:57] SAVIDGE: Now, just in case, Alisyn, that you are now tempted to go and jump off a building, let me point out that those people who are base jumpers have been doing it for years. And, in fact, you have to be an expert sky diver before you even consider it. Don't just think of it as a weekend kind of pass time.

CAMEROTA: Don't worry, I won't. It stresses me out just to watch it, Martin.

SAVIDGE: There were some - yes, some of those scenes that I'm like, oh, no thanks.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but beautiful video. Thanks so much for bringing that to us. You can tune in this weekend for "Sunshine Superman" Sunday, 9:00 p.n. Eastern right here on CNN.

PEREIRA: Oscar winner Sean Penn, breaking his silence about that El Chapo interview. You're going to hear his stunning allegation against the Mexican government.

Also, the growing firestorm over the all white Oscar nominations again. Is there a diversity problem in Hollywood? We'll discuss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: This morning, Sean Penn breaking his silence about that meeting and interview with El Chapo.

[08:50:02] Joining us now, Entertainment Tonight host Nischelle Turner and "New York Times" columnist Charles Blow. We want to talk about that and the Oscars. So much to get to, but I think we want to play a chunk of this interview with Charlie Rose that ran on CBS this morning

Let's listen and I'm going to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SEAN PENN, ACTOR: We had met with him many weeks earlier.

CHARLIE ROSE, CBS HOST: On October 2nd.

PENN: On October 2nd, in a place nowhere near where he was captured. We're not smarter than the DEA or the Mexican intelligence. We had a contact upon which we were able to facilitate an invitation.

ROSE: Do you believe that the Mexican government released this in part because they wanted to see you blamed and to put you at risk?

PENN: Yes.

ROSE: They wanted to encourage the cartel to put you in their cross- hairs?

PENN: Yes.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

PEREIRA: So I want to get a gut check from both of you. Granted, we played a portion, but I know you've each had a chance to listen to more of the interview. Charles, since you're here...

CHARLES BLOW, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Right.

PEREIRA: ... what's your gut tell you of - of why speak of what his intentions were going into, was he surprised of the fall out?

BLOW: Well, you mean Sean Penn is surprised by that?

PEREIRA: Yes.

BLOW: I know you can't be surprised.

PEREIRA: You can't be.

BLOW: You cannot be surprised by that, right? I mean, this idea of whether or not the Mexican government is trying to get the cartel to target him, that's an incredible kind of accusation.

PEREIRA: Right.

BLOW: And he's - on that he's saying yes, he believes that the Mexican government is trying to get him killed.

PEREIRA: He couldn't have gone into this imagining there was not going to be blow back from any of the players.

BLOW: Blow back, threat to your life, two different things.

PEREIRA: Fair point.

BLOW: Right? So, blow back, there is a real ethical quandary here about, you know, this is not - this is not just your regular get...

PEREIRA: But he's dealing with shady characters.

BLOW: Right, right, this is not your regular get, though.

PEREIRA: Exactly.

BLOW: This is not your regular get. Like, it's one thing to say, like, I interviewed some criminal on the street and we talked about their heroin use. This is a person who has killed people, who has -- who is a master, like a major drug trafficker. This is not a kind of cuddly character you're dealing with. And so...

PEREIRA: So, Nischelle, do you think - do you think, Nischelle, he's a misguided well-intentioned artist that had, you know, just got lost in all of this? Or do you think he was more complicit in what's all gone on here?

NISCHELLE TURNER, HOST, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: You know, that's a really interesting question because on one hand I think Sean Penn is one of the smartest people in Hollywood. I think that he has been an activist for many, many years. So I do think that he could anticipate going into this what would come out of it, not just the blow back but the other stuff.

PEREIRA: Sure.

TURNER: Because what Charles was saying, I think, lends to the fact that there could be some serious repercussions for getting yourself involved in this. Now, do I believe that he really does want the war on drugs conversation to begin, and to spark and to get bigger? Yes. Did he go about it the right way? I'm not so sure.

PEREIRA: Right.

TURNER: And I think now, looking back, he's saying I don't know if I did the right thing.

PEREIRA: Well, and look, the answer, he even said he thinks his article failed.

TURNER: Failed.

PEREIRA: We need to pivot because there is some controversy brewing after the Oscar nominations. You know we saw last year a hashtag form #allwhiteoscars. Guess what, deja vu. If you look at all the nominations, Charles, this year all of the major acting categories, nary a person of color. Reaction?

BLOW: Well, the movie industry has a huge problem in terms of diversity, and that's - and particularly it shows up with the Academy and the Oscars, right? So the "L.A. Times" did a survey of the academy in 2014, they found that 94 percent of them were white.

PEREIRA: Look at this.

BLOW: 2 percent are African American, 2 percent are Latino, less than 1 percent are Asian.

PEREIRA: No diversity in age either.

BLOW: The average age is 63 years old, 76 percent were of them were men. This is a real problem, this does not reflect the kind of sensibilities of the movie-going population. That is a huge issue, but it's not just the Academy, it is the entire pipeline from the story all the way up to who gets green lit and what movies get made. As -- you know, the lady said last year when --

PEREIRA: The president.

BLOW: Blanking - no, I'm blanking her name. Our first African American to receive an Emmy said we can't...

TURNER: Viola Davis.

BLOW: Viola Davis, Viola Davis. Why was I blanking on...

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER: Okay, it's okay.

BLOW: You - we can't win awards for roles that do not exist.

PEREIRA: ... not exist. Well, that's a very good point, Nischelle, because I know TV is far ahead of film, but it's interesting. The African American president of the Academy has worked on it. They have added 332 new members. We know that she started an initiative to change things, but a lot of people are saying it's not enough yet. Is it going to take time, or do they need to be held more accountable, the Academy?

TURNER: Well, I think all of those. No, it is not enough yet. Yes, it will take time. Yes, they do need to be held more accountable, the members of the Academy.

[08:55:00] But I think that, you know, from -- adding on to what Charles said with Viola Davis saying, you know, roles need to exist, I beg to differ a little bit this year because the roles did exist. There were so many quality roles that were on film this year by actors of color that just did not get the recognition that they so I deftly deserved.

And so, that goes to show you that there is still a long way to go. I mean, there were so many wonderful performances and there were a lot of them on film. You know I see everything.

PEREIRA: Yes, you do.

TURNER: So, there was a lot of them on film. But I will say that it's glaring and it's jarring when you see that list of nominees and you say, hold on a second.

PEREIRA: And nary a - right, right.

TURNER: Nobody looks like me.

PEREIRA: Well, look, they've got themselves in a conundrum because guess who is the host this year, Mr. Chris Rock, not one to shy away from the topic of race and controversy. So we know that he's going to have some comments on this on the stage.

Charles, Nischelle, we appreciate it. If you'd like to get in on the conversation, tweet us as @NEW DAY. You can post your comments on facebook com/NEWDAY.

"NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello begins after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Happening now in the NEWSROOM, smaller debate, harder hits.

TED CRUZ, (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Constitution hasn't changed, but the poll numbers have.

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, I guess the bromance is over.

COSTELLO: Trump and Cruz's birther battle plays out in prime time, but who came out on top?

Also, Chicago bracing for protest after the release of another police shooting video.