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Sanders, Clinton Clash During Final Debate Before Iowa Caucuses; Americans Freed from Iran Now in Germany; Security Operation to Find Americans Missing in Iraq; Tensions Flare Between Trump & Cruz. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired January 18, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're at least having a vigorous debate about reigning in Wall Street.

[05:58:38] SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In terms of polling, guess what? We are running ahead of Secretary Clinton.

CLINTON: I'm the only candidate standing here tonight who has said I will not raise taxes on the middle class.

SANDERS: We're not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act. I helped write it.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think most people know exactly what New York values are.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not sure that he knows what he means, to be honest with you.

CRUZ: What on earth are New York values? I'll tell you. In the rest of the country, people understand exactly what that is.

TRUMP: He's a nasty guy. Nobody likes him. Very nasty guy.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Three Americans released as part of a prisoner swap with Iran. They have landed at a U.S. air base in Germany.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rezaian spent 545 days in jail.

JASON REZAIAN, "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER (via phone): I never could have believed that this nightmare would go on so long.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your -- your Monday, I was going to say. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is January 18, 6 a.m. in the East, as you can tell. Chris and Alisyn are off. John Berman and Poppy Harlow join me morning.

Up first, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton sharpening their tone, getting personal in the final Democratic debate before the Iowa caucuses, clashing in Charleston over gun control, health care and ties to Wall Street. Clinton hitching her wagon to President Obama, promising to build on his successes.

BERMAN: But Sanders with a lead in New Hampshire and new pulling close in Iowa. How close? Just look at the latest CNN poll of polls there. Doesn't really get any closer than actually tied.

So that was the backdrop as they took the stage last night. Did anyone make or break their case? CNN's Phil Mattingly -- Mattingly joins us now with his take -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the three Democratic candidates, last night was really the closing argument of sorts. Just two weeks until the Iowa caucuses. And if you thought that shrinking calendar was really going to change the dynamic in the race, at least in tone, you were right.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The gloves...

SANDERS: I think Secretary Clinton knows that what she says is very disingenuous.

MATTINGLY: ... are off.

CLINTON: I'm not sure whether we're talking about the plan you just introduced tonight or we're talking about the plan you introduced nine times in the Congress.

MATTINGLY: Just weeks before the first votes are cast, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders putting an exclamation point on a week of sharp sparring on Sunday night.

CLINTON: The authorities convinced regulators to make those decisions.

SANDERS: Let me give you an example of how corrupt.

MATTINGLY: Clinton at one point in campaign unwilling to even mention Sanders' name, now targeting the Vermont senator's record on guns and how he'll pay for his healthcare plan.

CLINTON: I have made it clear, based on Senator Sanders' own record, that he has voted with the NRA, with the gun lobby, numerous times.

MATTINGLY: Sanders moving to blunt both criticisms.

SANDERS: What her campaign was saying of Bernie Sanders, who has fought for universal health care for my entire life, he wants to end Medicare, end Medicaid, end the children's health insurance program. That is nonsense.

MATTINGLY: Shifting on guns, a day before the debate.

SANDERS: What I said is I would relook at it. We are going to relook at it, and I will support stronger provisions.

MATTINGLY: And releasing his singer-payer healthcare plan just hours before taking the stage. Clinton criticizing Sanders for the taxes required to pay for the proposal and its shift away from President Obama's signature achievement.

CLINTON: There are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, I think is the wrong direction.

SANDERS: We're not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act. I helped write it. But we are going to move on top of that to a Medicaid for all system.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andrea.

SANDERS: A little bit more in taxes, do away with private health insurance premiums. It's a pretty good deal.

MATTINGLY: Sanders going on offense against Clinton's corporate ties.

SANDERS: You've received over $600,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs in one year.

MATTINGLY: Clinton defending not just her stance on Wall Street reform but President Obama's, as well.

CLINTON: But he's criticized President Obama for taking donations from Wall Street. And President Obama has led our country out of the great recession. President Obama's worked to push through the Dodd-Frank Bill and then to sign it was one of the most important regulatory schemes we've had since the 1930s. So I'm going to defend Dodd-Frank, and I'm going to defend President Obama.

MATTINGLY: Sanders definitely turning a question on Bill Clinton's personal life into one of his best moments of the night.

SANDERS: We've been through this, yes, his behavior was deplorable. Have I ever once said a word about that issue? No, I have not. I'm going to debate Secretary Clinton and Governor O'Malley on the issues facing the American people, not Bill Clinton's personal behavior.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Now, guys, one interesting element of the night: Bernie Sanders turning downright Trumpian, rattling off his poll numbers, saying once he was 50 points behind Hillary Clinton. Now even all around. One thing you can almost guarantee over the next couple weeks as we head to Iowa and then New Hampshire, this race is only heating up, and the attacks are really just gung.

BERMAN: No one cares about polls until they're leading in the polls, until they're good, and then it's a great subject to talk about.

PEREIRA: Let's talk about polls, as he said last night.

BERMAN: Stick around.

Joining us now to discuss this debate last night, Mark Preston, who's CNN politics executive editor, and Jackie Kucinich, who's senior politics editor for "The Daily Beast."

Jackie, simply put, what is different this morning than yesterday? Did anyone change the game?

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Bernie Sanders finally learned how to debate, it seems like. He got there; he wasn't going to take the attacks that Hillary was waging at him, like we've seen him done in the previous debates.

Look at gun control, his answer on gun control as an example. In these other debates that he's had, he's kind of had trouble coming back at Hillary Clinton. And this time he had an answer, and he sort of made it a nonissue, which is a huge improvement in his skills, just that issue alone.

PEREIRA: Mark, do you think that, aside from the tonal shift, anybody was able to move the needle?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EDITOR: No. And I think that, if you were to step back and look at who won and who lost the debate, in many ways, I think you'd have to say that Bernie Sanders won last night. And the reason being is that he was able to effectively deal with the gun issue. He fought back against the criticisms of health care. And he really delivered this populist message that's extremely important in this Democratic primary.

[06:05:07] At the same time, Hillary Clinton didn't necessarily have a bad night, but she didn't win. And at a time when you see Bernie Sanders doing so well in Iowa -- he is doing extremely well in New Hampshire -- that's got to cause the Clinton campaign to be a little bit concerned about what's happening in these final few weeks.

BERMAN: In some ways it was more about Bernie Sanders than any of the other previous debates. His ideas were being tested. His proposals were being tested. And we heard that on health care.

Look, the Sanders campaign did something very clever. They put out the details of his Medicare-for-all plan two hours before the debate. Hillary Clinton pushed him on it. Let's listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: There are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, I think is the wrong direction.

SANDERS: No one is tearing this up. We're going to go forward. We're not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act. I helped write it. But we are going to move on top of that to a Medicare-for-all system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You know, Phil, it was interesting. It's pragmatism versus purity in a way. Eric Bradner of CNN Politics put it like that. That's a good way to describe it there.

But Hillary Clinton is taking this to Bernie Sanders and, you know, Mark and Jackie say Sanders acquitted himself well, but he's going to have to answer these questions now for the next two weeks every day.

MATTINGLY: I felt bad for the Clinton staffers who had so many great lines written up about his health care plan and its lack of details that they just had to toss into the wastebasket two hours before. Very depressing on that.

I think on the health care issue, while Bernie Sanders did have a plan and it was released, what it does is open more doors. It was a seven-page proposal for a complete overhaul of the health care market. Now last night, I think Jackie and Mark are absolutely right. He fought her kind of to a standstill on this issue, but all this does is open up for more attacks.

And I think one of the interesting issues you're going to see, both on guns and on health care, is the Clinton campaign thinks not only do they have an issue, they have a winning issue that they can really hammer home in Iowa. And that last night, while he does have a plan and while he did well in debate last night, they really feel like they have grounds to actually move things forward in their favor over the next couple weeks.

PEREIRA: She was relentless on the matter of guns. She has been and last night was no exception. Do you think, Jackie, that Sanders did enough to sort of counter the attacks from Bill Clinton on where he stands with guns clear?

KUCINICH: It certainly was better than it was. Whether or not they'll actually be clear, to a Democratic electorate that really does favor more gun control. That remains to be seen. But he certainly made a step in the right direction.

And you also had that kind of Hillary Clinton backhanded compliment, but you're on the Sunday shows yesterday, where she said something to the effect of "I welcome his flip-flip" on one of the provisions about gun control.

So I still think you're still going to hear a lot of that in media, actually with Sanders' name used on the campaign trail in the next two weeks. BERMAN: So it's fascinating. We talked about the polls in Iowa.

The CNN poll of polls, which shows things tied there. Bernie Sanders is ahead in New Hampshire. To an extent what you saw last night was Hillary Clinton looking beyond both of those states. That was perhaps why she was draping herself in President Obama.

That is why she's, perhaps, talking to an electorate very different than Iowa, New Hampshire, very white in Iowa, New Hampshire. South Carolina, which is, you know, a couple weeks after these states, not nearly as white. If you look at the African-American vote there, FOX News did a poll of African-American voters. Hillary Clinton, is it at 82 percent, Bernie Sanders at 11 there.

Mark Preston, you know, we've been talking to Sanders' campaign for months about this, asking, you know, how are you going to make inroads with minority voters?

They say, "Yes, we're going to. They're going to catch on." Did he do anything last night to help?

PRESTON: I think he did, for a couple reasons. Let's just take a step back and talk about Hillary Clinton embracing President Barack Obama. Barack Obama defeated her in Iowa back in 2007, which effectively ended her -- or rather 2008, effectively ended her candidacy, right? You know, it took several months, but Obama went on to win it and, of course, he's been a two-term president.

If you look at Bernie Sanders, when he -- you know, look, he's never going to be as good as Hillary Clinton is with black voters. If he is to win Iowa, if he is to win New Hampshire, then you're talking about momentum at that point.

And I think the answer he gave last night when he tried to turn around the Wall Street thing, and he talked about how there needs to be something done for African-American communities and there has to be investment in there, I think it was a very smart thing for him to do.

Look, it's all about momentum right now. We are talking about national polls. But it's not about national polls at this point. It's about what's going on in Iowa and New Hampshire. It's all about momentum. Right now, look, it's a locked battle. I would say Bernie Sanders has a bit of wind behind his back heading into Iowa.

BERMAN: Phil, last words here, last thoughts. You know, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, while they did go after each other on policy, you know, they are both being very careful not to get too mean. They both have very high favorabilities everywhere, including in Iowa, where she's at 86, he's at 89.

[06:10:06] MATTINGLY: I think one of the interesting elements here is, with Hillary Clinton's attacks, with the campaign's attacks, do they get too far out over their skis on this?

One of the -- one of the things that's always hurt Hillary Clinton is when -- when she comes across as almost being shrill in her attacks or maybe going a little bit too far. And I think right now she's found that balance. They're

attacking on issues. They're attacking on policy. She feels like she has that balance.

Bernie Sanders, kind of avoiding really direct attacks altogether. What will be really interesting to see how the tone shifts in the next two weeks, if each can kind of maintain that balance or if one gets too far out in front.

PEREIRA: All right. Phil, Mark, Jackie, we appreciate it. Thanks so much, team.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

POPP HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, three of the four Americans released in that prisoner swap with Iran, including "Washington Post" journalist Jason Rezaian, are now at a U.S. military hospital in Germany. This as the United States imposes new sanctions against Iran, despite those international economic sanctions being lifted over the weekend.

I want to go straight to CNN's senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen. He's live for us this morning at Ramstein (ph) Air Base in Germany.

What do we know about their condition, Fred?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's being evaluated right now, Poppy. In the military hospital here at Landstuhl. And what's going on, they're going to be evaluated both physically, as well as psychologically, as well. Because of course, those long months of detention there in Iran is something that would take their toll.

Evin Prison in Tehran is one that's notorious for very tough detention conditions. However, "The Washington Post" manager -- managing editors have already managed to speak to Jason Rezaian. They asked him how he's doing after having been evacuated there from Tehran. He said, quote, "Doing a hell of a lot better than I was 48 hours ago."

He also said he was in good spirits but also said that it was the solitary confinement that he was in for parts of his detention that really were the toughest for him.

Now what's been going on over the past couple of hours is that they were flown out of Iran on a Swiss plane, taken to Geneva, then taken to the Landstuhl Medical Facility, where as I said, medical tests will happen.

However, the other thing, and that's probably almost as important, they are going to be reunited with their loved ones, with their friends and family. Remember, there were also a lot of supporters in the U.S. who kept their cases in the public light.

So now Jason Rezaian, Amir Hekmati and Saeed Abedini are meeting their family members, their friends here. Some of them are already here, so certainly some very emotional scenes here at Landstuhl.

HARLOW: No question. Can't wait for that moment when they can embrace each other again. Thank you so much.

Fred Pleitgen, live for us in Germany this morning.

Coming up in the next hour, we are going to speak live with the brother of the freed "Washington Post" reporter you just heard about, Jason Rezaian. He will join us live.

And in our 8 a.m. hour, Secretary of State John Kerry also live. Stay with us for that.

PEREIRA: Well, one group of Americans are enjoying their new- found freedom this morning. In Iraq, breaking news, a search operation under way to find three Americans believed to be abducted. Iraqi security officials telling CNN those contractors were taken by a group of gunmen.

CNN international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh live in Beirut with us live with their story -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A bit of context here, Michaela. We're talking about an area southeast of Baghdad, often controlled by Shia militia close to Iran, certainly how, as you say, that freedom happening in Europe.

At the same time, there are potentially these three Americans gone missing. Suggestions may be that they could fall into the hands of pro-Iranian militia. That's not clear at this stage. What is clear is that two of them are Iraqi-American nationals, one a fully- fledged American citizen. They were in an apartment block in the area of Abdurah (ph) in southeastern Baghdad when they went missing on Friday, taken away by an unknown gunmen in a convoy of vehicles.

At this stage, an Iraqi intelligence official says that there is a security operation happening in that similar neighborhood, an area called al Saha (ph). And it sealed it off and said to be used to try and find these three Americans.

Certainly, the Iraqi government on the surface here, wanting to be seen to be doing what they can. U.S. officials saying little as is common at the beginning of kidnaps, for the safety of those who have been -- if it is a kidnap, indeed -- those who have gone missing.

A real question here, though, is how much time elapses between now and when they see freedom. Each day that passes makes a significantly more complex task.

Back to you, John.

BERMAN: It is a very dicey case there. And sometimes people they are kidnapped, if that's what happened, they get passed between groups who have different interests, so it can get very, very dangerous. Nick Paton Walsh for us, thanks so much. Breaking new out of Ohio. A Danville police officer killed in

the line of duty. A suspect is now in custody. The officer was shot just after midnight. The gunman got away in the officer's police cruiser.

After an intense two-hour manhunt, the suspect, Herschel Jones III, was arrested. Before the shooting, police say Herschel -- Jones's ex-girlfriend warned them that he was looking to kill an officer. That fatal incident came less than 24 hours after a deadly shootout in Utah that claimed the life of a veteran police officer there. Officer Douglas Barney was murdered by a gunman who was killed off he shot a second police officer.

[06:15:20] HARLOW: Coming up, the war of words between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz intensifying, just two weeks ahead of the Iowa caucuses. Trump warning voters Cruz is too nasty to be president. So what does the Texas senator have to say about that? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's a nasty guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody in Congress likes him. Nobody likes him anywhere once they get to know him. He's a very -- he's got an edge that's not good. You can't make deals with people like that, and it's not a good thing. It's not a good thing for the country. Very nasty guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We're just two weeks out from the first votes in the 2016 presidential race, Donald Trump sharpening his attacks against Ted Cruz beyond the birther issue, Cruz firing back.

Joining us to discuss all of it, senior contributor for "The Daily Caller" and author of -- I love this title -- "Too Dumb to Fail," Matt Lewis.

Thank you for being with us.

Also, CNN senior political analyst, editor of "The National Review," Ron Brownstein. And once again, senior politics editor of "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich.

[06:20:08] Thank you all for being here.

Let us begin with Cruz and Trump, back and forth, back and forth. Let's pull up this tweet. This is from Cruz in the last week talking about this issue. He says even Donald Trump himself says New York values are different from the values in Iowa and across the country. Then he linked to this 1999 interview that Trump did with Tim Russert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM RUSSERT, FORMER HOST, "MEET THE PRESS": How about gays serving in the military? TRUMP: It would not disturb me. I mean, hey, I lived in New

York City and Manhattan all my life. OK. So my views are a little bit different than if I lived in Iowa, perhaps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Matt, to you, you say Trump and Cruz waited too long to go head to head like this. Why?

MATT LEWIS, "THE DAILY CALLER": I think certainly when it comes to Iowa, Donald Trump waited too long to try to go after Ted Cruz. I think Cruz is going to win Iowa. I think it's too late to muddy up his brand enough to hurt him in Iowa. Cruz is tailor-made for that state.

And I think what you see here is an example of Cruz's team being very effective. You know, in the debate, Donald Trump scored some points nationally, defending New York, talking about 9/11. Here the Cruz people very astutely show that Trump is a hypocrite on that issue. They're a tough team. I think the Cruz people are working it.

And by the way, this attack, this video of Trump talking about New York values, this surfaced four or five months ago at the time, nobody cared. It didn't hurt Trump. Now all of a sudden, it becomes much more relevant.

You know, Ron, you're sort of the arbiter of demographic information in all of America right now. New York values, is that something that you think does hurt Donald Trump, if the label sticks?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I think it can, but I think it's maybe a little too oblique. In baseball they say if you're going to throw a pitch, throw it with conviction. And I think Ted Cruz is doing this a little half-heartedly. What he's trying to say is Donald Trump is a conservative of convenience, that he doesn't share your values.

If that's what you want to say to the conservative Christian base, in particular, the Republican Party, if that's what you want to say, say it. Donald Trump has no -- you know, he's shown us he has no trouble going directly at whoever is standing in his way. It is kind of some new quality, a new category of brazen to ferociously attack someone else for being nasty. But we'll leave that for a minute.

The fact is that Donald Trump is making inroads, both in Iowa and nationally among Ted Cruz's conservative Christian, evangelical Christian base, particularly among those blue-collar evangelicals. And Ted Cruz has to find a way to push him back with those orders.

And one last point, the problem he's got is that they may not be voters primarily motivated by the social issues that are moving other evangelical voters. And simply reminding them that Trump is not as culturally conservative as they are may not be enough.

HARLOW: Let's talk about that more, Jackie, because Donald Trump talked about his relationship with God in his interview and his, quote, unquote, "relationship with God," his interview with Jake Tapper on "The State of the Union." Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try and do nothing that's bad. I live a very different life than probably a lot of people would think. And I have a very...

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Always or just now?

TRUMP: I have a very great relationship with God, and I have a very great relationship with evangelicals. And I think that's why I'm doing so well with Iowa.

HARLOW: Jackie, is that going to play enough against the Ted Cruz who does so well with evangelicals in Iowa? Is that going to get him what he needs in the next two weeks there?

KUCINICH: You know, it's hard to think that he will. Ted Cruz is very comfortable talking about his faith, and he talks about it all the time. You see Donald Trump there, he doesn't. I mean, this is the guy who a couple months ago just keeps on saying, "My favorite book is the Bible, you know, then 'The Art of the Deal'."

So it just -- it really doesn't have the same resonance as when you hear Ted Cruz about -- talk about it. It just doesn't. I don't know, just something is -- something is missing. He doesn't sound like an evangelical when he talks. And there is a difference.

BERMAN: Donald Trump is speaking at Liberty University today at 10:30. He is making a direct outreach to those voters. We will see what he says. I'm very curious to see how he plays it. Does he give his average daily speech or do he do direct outreach right there?

One interesting development. Ron, you were talking about how -- how Donald Trump is going directly at Ted Cruz, essentially saying, "No one likes him. He's nasty and no one likes him. That's a real problem here."

Now some conservative talk radio folks who have Ted Cruz's back are saying, "Donald Trump, you better stop or else." This is Mark Levin, how he put it. I think he actually put out a tweet. Right?

HARLOW: Yes.

BERMAN: It's a tweet. Let me read the tweet for you right now. Mark Levin essentially said, "Either cut the crap -- your accusations this morning that Cruz is a Canadian, a criminal, owned by big banks, et cetera -- or will you lose lots and lots of conservatives." And Levin basically promised he would get on the radio and go after Trump all the time.

Do you think that's a risk for him, Matt, or do you think Donald Trump at this point doesn't care who he offends?

[06:25:02] LEWIS: Well, I think it's interesting. These talks -- there's the entertainment wing of the Republican Party and then there's the governing ring.

For a long time, the entertainment wing provided cover for Donald Trump. I don't know if they thought he was a stalking horse or what for Ted Cruz. But Ted Cruz is the guy that they really like.

And so I think you're going to start to see them throwing some elbows, trying to protect the guy they really like. Trump now is a threat to the guy, the real conservative that they want to support Ted Cruz.

I will say this. You know, look, everybody knows that Ted Cruz is very unliked in Washington, D.C. A lot of people hate him. And I'm perfectly willing to believe that that could hurt him as a president. He might not be able to cut deals, as Donald Trump says. I just don't think that matters to Iowa voters. Like, he's mean to people? Great. They want -- they want to elect somebody who's going to be mean to the Republican establishment.

HARLOW: All right, guys, thank you so much. Appreciate it very much. A lot more to talk about going forward -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, guys. Another fiery finish for the latest SpaceX rocket mission. Sunday's launch, picture perfect; its landing, not so much. We have the dramatic pictures ahead for you on NEW DAY.

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GRAPHIC: Severe weather.

PEREIRA: That scared me a little bit.

Welcome back. Snowfall and extra cold temperatures are gripping the eastern half of the country this morning. Chad Myers...