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Bernie Sanders Leading Hillary Clinton in the Latest "CNN/ORC" Poll; EPA Official ResignS Over Flint Water Crisis; Could Trump Sweep the Republican Primaries? Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 22, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:50] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: So that monster winter storm putting 75 million people in its path. More than 5,000 airline flights have already been cancelled, train services affected.

Meteorologist Chad Myers keeping track of the storm and all of sort of the residual effects of having it across the nation.

(WEATHER REPORT)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, we know you will, Chad. Thanks so much for that update.

So just ten days until the Iowa caucuses. The latest "CNN/ORC" poll shows Senator Bernie Sanders leading Hillary Clinton by eight points in that state causing an already tense campaign to go into overdrive.

How does the Clinton campaign plan to stop Sanders? Let's ask our senior adviser and senior spokesperson for Hillary for America, Karen Finney.

Karen, great to have you in studio here.

KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR SPOKESWOMAN, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: It's good to be here.

CAMEROTA: OK, once again, those poll numbers at the moment in Iowa. Sanders, 51 percent, Hillary Clinton, 43 percent. He is up since December. She has gone down. I know you say polls go up and polls down, but at the moment, he's going in the right direction, she's going in the wrong direction. So what do -- how do you plan in the next week to turn that around?

FINNEY: You know, ultimately, it's all about turnout, right? The polls give you a snapshot in time, but at the end of the day, you have got to get your people out to caucus on February 1st or get to the polls if you're in a primary.

And one of the things I thought was interesting in your own reporting actually is when they looked at 2008 and those folks who actually showed up to caucus --

CAMEROTA: We have those numbers and we'll put those up.

FINNEY: You see Hillary Clinton's winning by quite a lot.

CAMEROTA: Yes, she gets 55 percent to his 38 percent, but is 2008 still relevant given this crazy campaign season of this year?

FINNEY: Well, well, I think a lot of things have gone out the window in this crazy campaign season. That being said, it just gives us another data point to say because remember, at the end of the day, it's who's going to get out and vote. Who's going to get out and caucus? So that's why I think those numbers are relevant.

But, look, at the same time, that's why and you have talked about this before, we are very focussed on our ground game. We have amazing volunteers. They have been working hard, knocking on doors, making phone calls. Obviously, Hillary was in Iowa last night with Demi Lovato, turning in, getting people excited. So we're going to keep doing that. And we're going to keep making sure our grassroots folks are going to keep doing their work of making sure they know where their people are and making sure they turn out.

CAMEROTA: Whenever I talk to any of you folks on the campaign, including Mrs. Clinton herself, you seem confident. You never seem nervous. But Bill Clinton sounds as though he may be a little bit concerned.

There's this Politico report that Bill Clinton has begun urging those of you in the campaign to beef up the ground game beyond Iowa and New Hampshire. Do you think that that's a weak spot?

FINNEY: Well, here's the thing. Let me -- I'm actually quoted in that story because I spent most of November, part of December, going to all the number of these early March states. The Super Tuesday states because we were starting to ramp up our operations -- Colorado, Alabama, Minnesota, and you know, did events with grassroots organizers, getting people excited and ready to, you know, start getting the word out for Hillary.

So what I've seen on the ground myself is a lot of enthusiasm, and a lot of energy, and an organization ramping up. But one thing that President Clinton, I'll say, I don't think that story was accurate. He was actually briefed in the fall on the March plan. He's obviously been out on the road increasingly, frankly, because obviously we're getting closer to the caucus. He reports back just like I report back when I'm, you know, out there and say what I'm seeing on the ground so --

CAMEROTA: Yes. And is he concerned from being out there?

FINNEY: That's not what I've heard. So, you know, but again that Politico story had some random, unnamed source, so who knows.

CAMEROTA: Mrs. Clinton has begun talking in a more aggressive rhetoric about Bernie Sanders. She has said in the past day, he'll never make it in the real world and she's also criticized him on foreign policy. So let's listen to a piece from last night. FINNEY: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Sanders doesn't talk very much about foreign policy, but when he does, it raises concerns because sometimes it can sound like he hasn't really thought it through.

For example, he suggested we invite Iranian troops into Syria. That is like asking the arsonist to be the firefighter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That is stronger language. So that's the plan, I assume, for the next week.

FINNEY: Well, look, people are trying to draw a contrast, right, and understand, the differences between where we are and where the Republicans are are huge. So, to show the differences and illustrate the differences between where Hillary Clinton's on some of these issues and where Bernie Sanders is on these issues, that's what you do when you're -- as people are making their decision.

And we're in that period where we know people are starting to decide who they're going to on caucus for. The point that Hillary was raising there though is a very important one. And I think it's something we've seen in the last week or so as Senator Sanders campaign has faced more scrutiny. We've seen a bit of lashing out, and we've seen a bit of these plates of half-baked plan --

CAMEROTA: Lashing out from him to her?

[07:40:00] FINNEY: Kind of lashing out in general. I mean, going after Planned Parenthood, going after the human rights campaign because he -- I mean, I understand he was disappointed, I guess, in not getting their endorsement, which he kind of tried to walk that back, I guess, last night. But then, you know, last week of the debate, it was -- we're not going to put out our health care plan, we are going to put our health care plan out, then they put their health care plan out. But as a lot of folks like Ezra Klein and Paul Krugman said like -- no, it's more of a tax plan, than a health care plan.

I know for myself and a lot of women, we're wondering, hey, where are the women? How do you put out a health care plan and leave out half the population?

So, you know, I see him lashing out, I see the scrutiny tightening up a bit and Hillary was making a very important point with regard to Iran which is, essentially, you know, the Iranians and the Saudis, they are mortal enemies. So suggesting that you're going to put them together in a coalition, in Syria, which is already a tinderbox, that's you know, that is something that is worth a real conversation because that's a potentially very dangerous idea.

CAMEROTA: All right, Karen Finney, thanks so much for being here. Obviously, we'll be watching all of this unfold over the next 10 days. Great to have you on NEW DAY.

Let's get over to Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we are still waiting on a fix, but we are seeing some fallout from the Flint water crisis. An EPA official resigning over that situation in Michigan. Has there been enough accountability? We're going to ask one mother whose children were exposed to lead and she fought to take action.

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[07:45:20] CUOMO: All right. We have a big development in the situation in Flint, Michigan. This morning the EPA official who oversees the Flint, Michigan, region resigned. Amid charges that not enough was done to prevent the toxic water crisis in the city. Many residents are calling for more accountability. But the urgency is to fix the water and make sure that it's safe for all people.

We have two who are very invested in this. LeAnne Walters, a mother of four. She helped expose the crisis after noticing something that was going on wrong in her own family with her own little kids.

We also have CNN's best chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, recently met with Walters and her family standing side by side this morning.

Now Sanjay's gotten a hold on the situation there. We understand the plus, minus going forward.

LeAnne, let's take one step backwards. You noticed this in your own family. You started to measure the water. You saw that the lead was way too high in terms of PPB, parts per billion. You then let people know, and what was the response?

LEANNE WALTERS, FLINT MOTHER WHO HELPED EXPOSE THE WATER CRISIS: That I was a liar and that it wasn't happening. I was stupid.

CUOMO: Who is they? Who is the they that you went to?

WALTERS: The city of Flint and the Michigan DEQ.

CUOMO: And when you offered your findings that you got through the kit. They said we've tested it, it's fine.

WALTERS: No, it was actually the DEQ that did the testing. And then they were telling people that it was my internal plumbing, and then it was my service line. And we weren't buying it because the numbers were too high. So I started doing the research on it.

CUOMO: What changed the situation? What did it take for there to be acknowledgment?

WALTERS: Well, I mean, the first steppingstone was when I figured out there was no corrosion control in the water. And I took it to the EPA, Miguel Del Toral. We were talking about it, and he turned around and said well it has to be there. It's federal law. And I said, well, I'm pretty sure it's not. He asked me how do you know? I said I have 12 months worth of operational reports in front of me that I've been researching. So I sent that to him and said he called me back and oh my god, there's no corrosion control.

CUOMO: And that winds up being a big factor because as we've learn here, what's been going on is that the water not properly treated winds up attacking the layers of the inside of the lead supply lines, lead supply lines not unusual, but when that oxide layer inside is corroded, then it starts to leech lead and that's how we got this problem.

Sanjay, on the medical side, I don't like having this conversation with LeAnne right here, but she's much better informed than we are even on this. She knows the realities for her and her kids. People are saying, they can fix the water. We'll fix the water. It's already better. This is going to be OK. What is the reality? Of when someone has been exposed to too much lead?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, it's unfortunate. And LeAnne and I have talked about this. She obviously knows a lot, but lead is a irreversible neurotoxin. And what that means is the heavy metal that gets in the body, when it gets in the body, it binds tightly to things. It's a strong binder. It's very hard to remove it.

If it gets way too high in the body, sometimes they can do something known as Chelation therapy, which is their injecting other chemicals essentially into the body to try and bind the lead and remove it, but that's aggressive and it doesn't work very well.

For everyone else, I mean, what's frustrating, I know LeAnne is frustrated by this, because not only could some of these symptoms appear now, but they could also appear years from now. And you don't know. You don't know what the future really holds. So you do your best to provide good nutrition, which does help. Try and provide good education, which does help, but these are, you know, you're still sort of left wondering and waiting as you told me.

CUOMO: LeAnne, you look great. I know you've said that you've seen a resurgence in your hair and your eyelashes since you left. Your kids look better. But you have gotten some diagnosis you don't like and what do you want the officials in Michigan to know about what they did and what needs to be done?

WALTERS: That this is unacceptable. That this should have never happened. And they need to make this right. And people need to be held accountable for this, not reassigned, not resigning, they need to be held accountable.

CUOMO: The governor said he is sorry. Yet, you know, to be completely honest, he has not responded to calls to come on none of the state authorities have responded to come on and talk to people about this. Do you think that that is a proper response of government in this environment?

WALTERS: No, I don't, because his apology did not seem sincere to me. Nobody, nobody's apology has been sincere in this. I got one sincere apology the other day and it wasn't from state or anybody in the State of Michigan.

CUOMO: Do you believe that the water situation has been fixed?

WALTERS: No, it's not fixed. I'm actually doing a citizen testing right now, checking chlorine levels because the levels aren't even at minimum level yet. It's not safe yet.

(CROSSTALK)

[07:50:00] CUOMO: Sanjay, you're dealing with the state and what their response is. Do you think they have their hands around this now? And they are committed to fixing it or are they still in cover up mode?

GUPTA: Well, I don't think that the commitment is there and I'll tell you why. What happened in this new water, the Flint water, Flint right over her behind us, corroded those pipes. It essentially damaged the infrastructure of plumbing, have evolved the pipes in this town. I mean, you mention it already, Chris. But even if you put clean water or better water, treated water into the system now, you're still dealing with pipes that are going to be leeching lead into that water. That's a problem. It's going to cause a lot of money to replace that.

They've talked about trying to re-coat that and all that. We talked to some experts. It's unclear whether that can work. But the price tag to sort of re-do, if you will, the infrastructure around plumbing, you're talking close to a billion dollars. The numbers that they've heard so far here are tens of millions of dollars. So I think there is a disconnect there. I don't think people understood how -- the magnitude of this problem yet.

CUOMO: Well, the governor said he has a big surplus. Let's see what he does with it.

Sanjay, thank you very much.

LeAnne, as you know, there is no one better in this business than Sanjay. We're going to stay on this story. Let him know what you find out and we will be there every step of the way.

LeAnne, thank you very much for being with us. The best to your family.

Doc, thank you as always.

Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump trumping the rest of the Republican field, state by state. Could Trump deliver the strongest primary performance in modern history? We will look at the math with a conservative writer about what he sees, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:55:13] CAMEROTA: A new "CNN/ORC" poll shows Donald Trump trouncing his rivals in Iowa. It's just the latest in a string of polls showing Trump's dominance in the Republican race.

In fact, our next guest believes he could be on his way to an historic primary sweep.

Joining us now is Noah Millman. He's a senior editor for the American Conservative.

Noah, great to have you in studio here.

NOAH MILLMAN, SENIOR EDITOR, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE: Good to be here.

CAMEROTA: OK, you believe that Trump is poised to have the sort of strongest primary win in basically a hundred years.

I mean, is that fair?

MILLMAN: Well, the modern primary system doesn't go back a hundred years. If you go back to when the Iowa caucuses began, which is 1972, no Republican has ever won both the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary. Trump is in position potentially to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: OK, so in modern primary system. But let me challenge your premise, because here's one of the polls, the latest -- one of the latest "CNN/ORC" polls. And it shows that when they poll people who actually went to the Iowa caucus in 2012, Cruz actually is on top. He gets 30 percent of the votes of people who actually turned out to caucus which is significant. Not just people who say they are going to turn out.

MILLMAN: Right.

CAMEROTA: And Donald Trump gets 28 percent. So how are you so confident of your premise here?

MILLMAN: Well, first of all, I'd say my premise is if he wins Iowa, he's in a real potential position to sweep the entire thing and not lose anything, maybe lose a state here or there that's a favorite.

The second thing I'd say is the real question about Iowa is what the turnout is going to be like. All these people who were standing out at rallies in, you know, two degree weather to see Donald Trump, are they going to turn out to vote for him.

In 2008, you saw a huge jump in participation on the Democrat side in Iowa. Are we going to see a similar thing here? That's the question nobody knows the answer to. But even if Ted Cruz wins Iowa by a small margin that still leaves Trump in an overwhelmingly favorable position for the rest of the calendar.

CAMEROTA: As we said, you are the senior editor of the American Conservative. Let's talk about the grandfather of conservative magazines, "The National Review."

MILLMAN: Sure.

CAMEROTA: They have just come out with this huge special report in which 22 conservative leaders have basically made the case against Donald Trump.

MILLMAN: Right.

CAMEROTA: And that he's not a true conservative. Let me just read you one of them. Here is the editorial. "Donald Trump is a menace to American conservatism who could take the work of generations and trample it underfoot on behalf of a populism as heedless and crude as the Donald himself."

What do you think about Donald Trump as a conservative?

MILLMAN: Well, I don't really have a dog in the fight over whether he's a true conservative or not. I'm trying to see what's going to happen with the Republican party.

CAMEROTA: But you know where he stands on positions.

MILLMAN: I do.

CAMEROTA: I mean, why don't have a dog in this fight? Do you think he has true conservative position?

MILLMAN: Let me say the following. There's a poll recently that Marco Rubio has been touting of evangelical leaders. My colleague at the American Conservative (INAUDIBLE) wrote about.

70 percent of so called evangelical leaders are supporting Marco Rubio. You look at where their followers are, where actual evangelical voters are. 42 percent are supporting Donald Trump and 25 percent are supporting Ted Cruz.

So I would say "The National Review" is kind of like those leader and the question is what their followership. Who's actually following their lead?

CAMEROTA: I see. So you're thinking that there's sort of an anachronism. They are old school and they are not in touch with what modern conservatives are thinking.

MILLMAN: I would say that Republican voters in this cycle are extraordinarily reluctant to follow the lead of their self appointed leaders.

CAMEROTA: OK, because here is another point. This is from David Bose, he's the executive vice president of the Cato Institute, a conservative think tank.

MILLMAN: Libertarian.

CAMEROTA: OK, Libertarian. He says, "Without even getting into his past support for a massive wealth tax and single payer healthcare. He's know-nothing protectionism or his passionate defensive eminent domain; I think we can say this is a Republican campaign that would have appalled Buckley, Goldwater and Reagan."

Basically, when you talk about eminent domain, his support of in the past bailout stimulus, are those conservative principles?

MILLMAN: No, I wouldn't say that he is -- that Trump is a normal conservative. I think that in terms of ideological terms, I think he's all over the map. There are ways in which he plays very much to the heart of conservative voters and there are ways in which he doesn't. I think in some ways that makes him a stronger candidate when you look forward than in the past.

I'm not a Trump supporter by the way. I'm not on his campaign. I'm just, you know, trying to, you know, handicap the race.

CAMEROTA: I understand. But do you think that given his position, that true conservatives, the people who -- voters who consider themselves true conservatives will turn out for him?

MILLMAN: I think we're going to find out whether those kinds of logical litmus tests are really what's driving voters in this cycle, or whether they are looking for somebody who is positioned as fundamentally an opponent of the establishment of the Republican Party. It seems so far that the dynamic is it's less about what their ideology is and more about where they stand vis-a-vis the power structure.

CAMEROTA: Noah Millman, fascinating article. Thanks so much for coming in.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLMAN: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. Up first, much of the east coast is about to get snowed under.