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Flint Water Crisis; The Person Who Changed Chris Cuomo's Life. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 22, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] RICHARD SOCARIDES, WRITER, THENEWYORKER.COM: Out there and I think both Trump and Bernie Sanders are tapping into that same anger. But I think on the Democratic side that - that ultimately voters in Iowa and everywhere will not see Mr. Sanders as having what it takes to be president. I mean I think he's -

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: But where does that confidence come from? Where - were does the confidence come from?

SOCARIDES: Well, I - well, first of all, I think the polls are all over the map. So I don't think we can really rely on any polls now. There was another poll out yesterday that showed Hillary up by nine points. I think that there is, you know, there's this distinction in the polling about who's going to turn out. But I think ultimately people will see Hillary as the person with the best plan and most qualified. I mean I think - I think Sander is now - you know, we've got a while to go. Like a week is a lifetime in terms of an election. Sanders is finally getting the kind of scrutiny that I think he hasn't gotten and that he deserves. He has no foreign policy experience. He has these troubling votes on guns.

CUOMO: He has two million individual donors and mobs of people who are "#feeling the Bern."

SOCARIDES: Well, but, Chris, can I (INAUDIBLE) - he just proposed scrapping President Obama's signature initiative and -

CUOMO: Which is probably popular with a lot of people.

SOCARIDES: Well, it may be popular with some people, but it's not popular with Democrats that vote in primaries. And I want to tell you, he's proposed - he's proposed these massive spending programs, which are just unrealistic. I mean I think the core base of the Democratic party wants a leader and wants a realist. They do not want someone on the extreme, like Bernie Sanders is. We are not going to elect a socialist president of this country. Bernie Sanders is not going to be president. This is a protest vote, just like you're seeing in Iowa on the Republican side.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ana, Richard, thank you for duking it out. Great to talk to both of you.

ANA CABRERA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And be safe -

CAMEROTA: You too. CUOMO: Yes. Ana was saying be safe because of the coming weather.

CAMEROTA: I know. I appreciate that.

CUOMO: Monday night, exactly one week before the Iowa caucuses, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton and Martin O'Malley will talk with those with the opinions that matter the most, the voters. A town hall live in Des Moines, Iowa. Real voters, real lives, real concerns, face to face with the candidates in turn to get their answers. You can't get a purer form of democracy than that. 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN. You'll watch it, please.

Mic.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That's the future. Right now we're tracking the massive winter storm that is bearing down on the eastern half of the nation.

Also, the former mayor of Flint, Michigan, the man who was in charge when the water switch was made and even promoted drinking the water despite the contamination, he tells his side of the story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:08] CUOMO: The EPA official in charge of Flint stepping down over the water crisis there and many are calling for the resignation of Governor Rick Snyder as well. Who is to blame? Or maybe the better question is, who is not to blame in this situation? Joining us now is the former Flint mayor, Dayne Walling. He made the switch to bring in water from the Flint River instead of Lake Huron.

Mr. Mayor, thank you for joining us.

Let's be clear at the onset, switching the water source to the Flint River was not the problem. The testing of it is fine. It's what happened thereafter. And many people involved in the situation say you had reason to know that there was problems with the water and you didn't act on those. You dismissed them.

DAYNE WALLING (D), FORMER FLINT MAYOR: There were problems right from the beginning. And let's be clear, that there was a bait and switch with all of us here in Flint. We had a state appointed emergency manager by Governor Snyder come in and take control of this city in December of 2011. And after city council and I expressed support for a new water supply to Lake Huron, the emergency manager went behind closed doors with the State Department of Environmental Quality and decided to use the Flint River as an interim source, made the budget changes and put that in place.

Now, once that happened, I was receiving reports from the Department of Environmental Quality and our city staff that the water was testing comparable with Detroit. That was what our community had used for so many years. But, tragically, it's proved to be untrue. The State Department of Environmental Quality admitted in October that they did not properly enforce the Safe Drinking Water Act from the beginning.

CUOMO: Right. The residents -

WALLING: So all the problems we were having throughout the months were - were all part of this underlying problem that wasn't identified until much later.

CUOMO: But residents say as early as May in 2014 they were given reports, they were coming to your office, to the agencies of the city, and saying, this is wrong. June 12th, city officials reveal they're treating the water with lyme in response to complaints. Right there I think that ends the ability for plausible deniability. Once you knew you had to train - to treat the water at all, why didn't you own what was clearly a problem, become outspoken and get after it?

WALLING: Yes, well, in retrospect, I wish I would have done that. What I did, because I was getting skeptical of what was coming from the State Department of Environmental Quality, I was communicating with Dr. Susan Headman (ph) at EPA Region Five, who you just mentioned resigned. It was explained to me that the situation in Flint and the complaints especially of Miss Leann Walter (ph) so tragically, that that was under review by the EPA. And when a determination was made, that would be communicated to the Department of Environmental Quality. And then it would come to the city of Flint. And I'm learning, like everyone else, what was actually happening behind the scenes through the e-mails, through other conversations with the state and the feds. And it was leaving this community betrayed and being poisoned.

CUOMO: But the rationale makes sense with a lot of things that happens in government. And certainly in Flint you had problems. That's why there was an emergency manager there in the first place. There was seen as a need to circumvent local government to get things done. That's important to point out. But your - this was not a normal government situation. This was people coming forward and saying, this water is really strange. You know, it's not just that my bus isn't on time and it's a bureaucratic problem. Your first quote was, "I think people are wasting their precious money buying bottled water," after the June 12th advisory. That is not somebody who says, well, I'm skeptical. that's not a skeptical thing. General Motors comes forward in October and says, hey, this is corroding our parts. We can't use it anymore. The city, that's you, because you were mayor, arranges for the company to tap into a different water line, but tells the residents it's still OK for you. When you look back on making that decision -

[08:40: 17] WALLING: I -

CUOMO: What did you get so wrong?

WALLING: Well, I've taken responsibility and apologized for the decisions that I've made. But again, you have to be clear that the state-appointed emergency manager made that arrangement with General Motors. I was opposed to that.

CUOMO: Right, but you could have stepped up, Mr. Mayor. I don't see any record of your voiced opposition. That's why I'm asking you to give you an opportunity to express it now.

WALLING: Yes.

CUOMO: When General Motors said it's corroding our parts, what made you able to say, OK, I agree, it's probably still good for residents. How is something that rusts metal good for your mouth?

WALLING: Yes. It was explained to me, and I've since seen further detail, that that particular issue had to do with a specific manufacturing process many companies use, you know, a filtration processes in their own plants. But, look, I - I think all of this shows that from the beginning there were major problems. It wasn't regulated right. This community was betrayed. I was given bad information. And I gave bad information to the rest of the community. And now we're at a point where we have to see the solutions come in place. We need our community, our businesses, the state government, the federal government to all help address this problem.

CUOMO: Quickly, the governor was on TV this morning. He's blaming everybody but himself. He apologized. He said it stops with him, but he owns no responsibility. Do you think that's the truth? Quickly.

WALLING: I think there's a lot more that needs to be done at the state. There's more changes at the Department of Environmental Quality and there's hundreds of millions of dollars that the state of Michigan owes the residents and families and children of Flint.

CUOMO: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Walling, I appreciate you taking this opportunity. It's not an easy conversation for you to have.

WALLING: Thank you.

CUOMO: But the people in that society need it, need to know the truth so that they can have confidence in government again. Thank you sir.

WALLING: Thank you for covering this.

CUOMO: Mic.

PEREIRA: All right, we're going to pivot to something entirely different, adventure. It's changing. From the mountains we climb and the places we travel, to the technology we're developing. In this 12 part video series, CNN's digital studios dives into the ingenious designs and innovations that enable us to experience the world in thrilling new ways, changing forever our notion of adventure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ocean rowing is the crossing of any ocean under self-power. My name is Sonia Baumstein (ph). I am a professional adventurer. And I'm also the owner of a company called Spin Drift Rowing. Our hull, when it comes off, weighs less than 200 pounds, which is really, really light boat. Just think about being able to pick this up with three people.

I think that the scope of adventure is constantly changing and it's shifting with our available resources. And to say that there's one way to do an adventure is never going to be correct. You can do this massive thing in your life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: What a great series this has been. Good for you for bringing this to us.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Wasn't me.

CUOMO: So humble. We've all been telling about the people who made powerful marks on our lives. It leads up to that two-hour special this Sunday hosted by Anderson Cooper and the beauty over here, Michaela Pereira, called "The Person Who Changed My Life."

This morning, I'm going share my story. There is only one boy out of 14 grandkids in my family and it is my son, Mario. That makes him very special on a lot of levels and my relationship with him has been special as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Family is everything. A simple lesson that's taken on deeper meaning since we lost the man who it taught me, my pap.

To me, he wasn't the governor. He was a father.

MARIO CUOMO, FATHER OF CHRIS CUOMO: And what about Christopher?

CUOMO: Who was always teaching about giving back.

MARIO CUOMO: It is right to give to people and to the world.

CUOMO: But his biggest lesson is what this piece is all about.

(on camera): My father would often say to me, spend time with your kids. Don't bring your work home with you the way I did.

(voice-over): To be a good parent. For me and Christina that means raising our jewels, Bella, Mario and Carolina. Raising the girls can be a joy and a chore. But the biggest challenge for me has been figuring out the dynamic of making a man. It may be the hardest thing I've ever done.

(on camera): A lot of men, a lot of people realize their mistakes sometimes, but don't want people to know.

(voice-over): I know because I was one of those people struggling, trying to balance what I thought was right with what was actually right for my son. And the answer came from the person who changed my life, Mario.

(on camera): My son helped make me change in a way that made me who I am right now in this chair as much as any formative experience in my life. I'm not embarrassed to say that my relationship with my son was not how I wanted it. I wasn't doing the best for him. It wasn't making him the best that he could be. If you have to raise your voice with your kid every time you want him do anything, are you really getting it right?

(voice-over): Being intense and insistent works as a journalist, but it was not working for me as a father. Even as the baby, my little man literally ran the other way.

(on camera): He's not motivated by the same things. He's not scared by the same things. He's sensitive to things that I am not.

MARIO, SON OF CHRIS CUOMO: Don't do that.

[08:50:07]CUOMO: Don't do what? I won't do it.

(voice-over): Mario is who he is even at this young age is 5, 7, 9 and he's always been completely sure of telling me that he doesn't like what I was doing.

Sure he knew I loved him, but we wound up in frequent standoffs that were kind of funny, but really frustrating.

(on camera): And I'm this 200 pounds monster and I'm trying this 40 pound standing up to me and I'm like where is the fear. And then when I saw the fear I was like I don't want to see it. And times are different. My mom ran the house.

MATILDA CUOMO, MOTHER OF CHRIS CUOMO: I think you were like a different person when you used to come home from Albany. You were just so happy to see him that you behaved yourself. It was very nice for me.

CUOMO: Mama reminded me that I was more than a handful as a kid. And I was forgetting two things. Strength is not just toughness but sweetness especially for boys.

MATILDA CUOMO: A father has to give time and love, the love and the affection that they need. More than you can believe. A boy, especially a boy. They don't show it. But they are just as much as the girl they want to know that you care for them.

CUOMO (on camera): So what is the plan today? Fishing?

MARIO: Fishing.

CUOMO (voice-over): The second thing was the key. She said Mario will be your best teacher. Listen to him and let him show you how to be. So I stopped insisting and starting listening. Good job, bud. And sure enough, I realized my son and I were saying the same things.

Just in our own way. So if I say how much you do like something and you say 1 out of 10, that means you don't like it. Do you understand that?

MARIO: No, Daddy, one is the worst. Two is the second worst, 5, 50/50, 9, second best. Ten the best. CUOMO (on camera): I reached out to people who knew better. I reach out to the clinician. I reach to people who do it for a living, who understand kids?

(voice-over): Some book learning, some intuition from mom, the example of my wife. It all helped, but the best teacher wound up being my little man.

(on camera): It was really hard for me to change what I thought was right and what I knew and how it was and he helped me do it.

I used to get angry lot more than do I now, right?

MARIO: Yes.

CUOMO: I would say I'm sorry, I stink I'm trying to better, right?

MARIO: Yes.

CUOMO: How do you think we helped me become a better daddy?

MARIO: You always were a good daddy.

CUOMO: It doesn't matter how much I changed. How much I learn from being with him.

(on camera): He taught me if I let go and I let somebody else have their way a little bit I is wound up more happier and more satisfied with the dynamic.

(voice-over): Now I'm not saying it is all smiles and laughs, but now we find a way through whatever life brings.

(on camera): Look at that grass fish. Think we'll always be buddies?

MARIO: Yes. Even when you are not on earth anymore. You will still be my buddy. Always.

CUOMO (voice-over): Now, I know when he says that he's thinking about grandpa being gone and so am I.

(on camera): It would be amazing for me to watch pap with Mario now.

I think pap would respect the effort I made to be better for my family. He put inside of us what we need to stay together and stay true to what matters most. And that is all I want for my kids.

(voice-over): Two Marios changed my life I suppose and my hope and prayer is that what mattered most about the one who is gone will live on in me, my girls and the son who carries his name.

(on camera): Do you understand why it was important to name you after grandpa?

MARIO: No.

CUOMO: Because grandpa is gone, right? But his name lives on.

MARIO: He's not gone. He's still in my heart.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: I can't even look at you guys right now. Anyway. What we wanted to do was -- you know, I think a lot of dads can relate to the piece. I can't look at you guys right now. I just think that dads will be able to relate to the piece. Sometimes what matters most is hardest to do.

PEREIRA: I love your family so much, but I love you even more right now. Look at who's there.

CUOMO: Get off my phone.

[08:55:00]PEREIRA: We're talking about you. Come on over here, big man. Your dad needs a hug I think.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That's beautiful.

CUOMO: They're making me cry.

CAMEROTA: Mario, what did you think about the story? Did you like the story your dad told?

CUOMO: What did I tell you about using my --

PEREIRA: There are families out there that are going through some of the very things that all of us have gone through. People, individuals, somebody needs a leg up or love advice or mend a relationship. This is why this kind of special is extra, extra important.

CAMEROTA: I agree.

CAMEROTA: There are more coming.

CUOMO: Are you all right with the story? Did you like the story buddy?

PEREIRA: Take another picture.

CUOMO: Who's better than me? You.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for sharing that, Chris. That was a beautiful story.

CUOMO: And I thank my wife for letting me share the story.

PEREIRA: She's a fox by the way.

CAMEROTA: Indeed. "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello starts right after the break. Have a great weekend everyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)