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New Day

Democrats Hold Town Hall Debate Ahead of Iowa Caucuses; Interview with Former Iowa Senator Tom Harkin. Trump Opens Biggest Lead in New CNN Poll. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- there is a very good chance he would be unstoppable.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted cannot get along with anybody. He's a nasty person. You don't see that.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": You have called Bernie Sanders a whack job. Who would you rather face in that general election?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And investigation in Planned Parenthood leads to indictment not of the organization but its accusers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Planned Parenthood said these antiabortion extremists spent three years creating a fake company.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, January 26th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn Camerota, John Berman in New York. We're here live in Des Moines, Iowa, with reaction to last night's big CNN town hall. Democrat candidates made their final arguments to Iowa voters. Hillary Clinton, she was selling herself as ready for the job, and answering questions about trust. Bernie Sanders questioning Clinton's judgment, trying to sell his socialist vision as a good thing for Democrats. Martin O'Malley fighting to beat the odds, telling supporter, stay strong.

So six days left to the caucuses. Who made the most of last night with Iowa voters? CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar joins me now with highlights. Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really brought out so much from the candidates. I thought that maybe the debate sort of forum didn't necessarily do this, this town hall that we saw last night. But what but we saw, these candidates making an argument. We say the candidates make an argument. This truly was the case. Hillary Clinton making one for experience, Bernie Sanders making one for judgment just a week before Iowans go to caucus.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Less than a week away from the Iowa caucuses.

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This call for a standing up response.

KEILAR: The Democratic candidates are out of their chairs.

MARTIN O'MALLEY, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not capable of doing Q and A in Iowa from a seat.

KEILAR: And throwing softs punches in a final pitch to voters.

SANDERS: Experience is important, but judgment is also important.

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders kicking off CNN's town hall going record to record with Hillary Clinton.

SANDERS: I voted against the war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq. I led the effort against Wall Street deregulation. See where Hillary Clinton was on this issue. On day one I said the Keystone pipeline is a dumb idea. Why did it take Hillary Clinton such a long time before she came into opposition?

KEILAR: Clinton says one bad vote on the Iraq war is just a scratch, not a dent.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have a much longer history than one vote, which I have said was a mistake because of the way that was done and how to Bush administration handled it. But I think the American public has seen me exercising judgment in a lot of other ways.

KEILAR: Former Maryland governor Martin O'Malley once again fighting for his place in this race.

O'MALLEY: I am the only one of the three of us who has a track record not of being a divider but of bringing people together to get meaningful things done.

KEILAR: Voters challenging the candidates on key issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you planning to ensure racial equality?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you going to fight for women's rights?

KEILAR: The Vermont senator clearing up his stance on gun control.

SANDERS: If a gun shop owner should know, why should somebody be buying 1,000 guns? Somebody should be thinking that does not make a lot of sense. In that case the gun shop owner or the gun manufacturer should be held liable. KEILAR: The former secretary of state leaning on nearly a

million miles of travel to prove she's the foreign policy front runner.

CLINTON: I flew from Cambodia where I was with the president to Israel, middle of the night. Go see the Israeli cabinet and work with them on what they would accept as an offer. Go see the Palestinian president, work with him to make sure he'd back it up. Go back to Jerusalem, finalize the deal. Fly to Cairo and meet with President Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood president of Egypt, hammer out the agreement.

KEILAR: Clinton not only highlighting her record but defending her character.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard from quite a few people my age that they think you are dishonest.

CLINTON: I've been on the front lines of change and progress since I was your age. I have been fighting to give kids and women and the people who are left out and left behind a chance to make the most out of their own lives.

(APPLAUSE)

KEILAR: Throughout the night one message was clear -- dump Trump.

O'MALLEY: We are far better than the sort of fascist rhetoric that you hear spewed out by Donald Trump.

KEILAR: Clinton taking it a step further.

CLINTON: We need a coalition that includes Muslim nations to defeat ISIS. And it is pretty hard to figure out how you are going to make a coalition with the very nations you need if your spend your time insulting their religion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:05:01] KEILAR: This CNN town hall really crystallizing the choice the Democrats in the country here in Iowa have -- Hillary Clinton, the establishment, versus Bernie Sanders the alternative. Which will prevail? We will see in six days as Iowans head to the caucuses. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Brianna. Let's bring in former senator from Iowa Tom Harkin. Harkin has endorsed Hillary, did so months ago, Hillary Clinton for president, of course. He retired in 2015. You got the biggest applause of the night, senator.

(LAUGHTER)

TOM HARKIN, (D) FORMER IOWA SENATOR: As I said, you know, once you retire, everyone loves you, you know?

CUOMO: So last night do you think that Hillary Clinton used that opportunity better than either of the other candidates, and why?

HARKIN: Well I do because that is sort of her format. She's been going all over Iowa, Chris, going into people's homes, meeting with small groups, responding to Iowan's questions. And what has happened over the last almost year that she's been here now is she's really absorbed a lot of listening to people from Iowa.

And last night was sort of her kind of format. And I think she showed a very warm, human side of her, but also one that says, look, I'm ready to be president. I can do this from day one. And I think President Obama was right when he said she's probably the best prepared person to be president maybe in our lifetimes.

CUOMO: Counterargument winds up being resume is not enough. It is about what your judgments were there, what you mean to the future, are you too much a vestige of what got us and what many don't like as a current atmosphere? The polls, FOX News just came out with them, shows a compressed race. I think it's like 48, 42 Clinton. But you are seeing numbers, a real variance here. You are seeing a contraction as we get closer. Is this a metaphor for Clinton's overall vulnerability? You know she has negative personal aspects in a lot of polls as well when it comes to credibility, trustworthiness, depending on how it's worded.

HARKIN: I've been in a lot of caucuses in Iowa as you can imagine in my lifetime. And there is always this aspect of something new, something unique, something different. And I understand that. I get that. But I think when it comes down to it, what Iowans want to be reassured is whoever they are supporting is someone they can trust, someone who is ready to be president, and someone who will move this country forward in a very progressive manner. That's why Hillary is going to win the caucus.

CUOMO: But do you think she easily checks the trust box given what we see in polls? How about that kid last night saying some of my friends, they are not sure you tell the truth. I forget how he worded it exactly, but it was a "you're a liar" question.

HARKIN: Well, you know, Chris, I've known Hillary, well, since she was first lady. I kind of ran against her husband once.

CUOMO: I remember, senator.

HARKIN: And she served on my committee, the health committee in the Senate. I saw her work with Republicans to get legislation through. But through all of that, the Republicans continually try to beat up on her. They're running ads in Iowa right now. Republicans, Karl Rove and some hedge fund billionaires are running ads in Iowa against Hillary. Why? They don't want to run against her. They're afraid that she could win and be a successful president. They are not running ads against Bernie or against Martin O'Malley, two of my other friends, but against Hillary.

So when people say can we trust her? I'm like, gosh, look what they have been beating her up with in the past 20 years. I served in the Senate, Chris. I saw how she worked, and I saw how she worked with Republicans to get things down. I trust her to the nth degree. I think she's honest, she's trustworthy. But my gosh, after 20 years of right wing beating her up and her husband up, it takes its toll.

CUOMO: Everything that you've heard about the FBI investigation, the government investigation into the e-mail server, what information was on it, whether it was classified, you understand these issues very well. You can say there is nothing there that gives you any concern?

HARKIN: Not that I've seen so far. Who knows where some of this kind of goes? These were just kind of honest mistakes. She wasn't the only one using her personal e-mail server, as you know, in the government. That was done by a lot of people.

CUOMO: But this was an intentional practice, not a mistake.

HARKIN: No, if it was a mistake in terms of something got on the e-mail server that shouldn't have been on it or something like that. I know she went -- again, she went to the ultimate degree to make sure that there weren't any top secret kind of stuff going into these servers. Now, if someone sent her something that was classified, she could have not had any control over that. So I think this e-mail thing is just a -- and I think even Bernie Sanders said that once, making a mountain out of a mole hill is what they are doing. They are trying to find anything they can to bring her down.

CUOMO: But when the "they" is the FBI I'm saying it just gives it a little bit more legitimacy. It is one thing if it is political but or if it is an opponent politically. But when it's a government agency I think you have to look at it differently.

[08:10:09] HARKIN: Which is fine. And I've talked to Hillary about this. And she said fine. They should do their job. And that's what they are doing.

CUOMO: So when you look at last night, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, those are the two prohibitive favorites within the party. It's got to be one of them. Martin O'Malley made a good point last night the polls were often wildly wrong in Iowa. But accepting that is untrue in this case. Do you believe you can win in the general with the amount of support you have within the Democratic base for the people last night.

HARKIN: Do I believe?

CUOMO: Do you think you have a winner from one those two in a general election, and why?

HARKIN: Yes. And of course, as you know, I'm a Hillary supporter.

CUOMO: I do. You told me in sign language, which you explained to me.

HARKIN: Yes, my Hillary sign language. Yes, we do, because I believe that the leading contenders on the Republican side have gone off the deep end. And I think the country when it comes down to it, you know, the polls -- I think when it comes down to it they are going to want someone in the presidency who can be president from day one.

As Hillary has said, you never know what's coming in the door. President Obama said that the other day. You never know what is coming in that door. And I value, I value experience and I value judgment. And Hillary has got great judgment. Has she made some mistakes in the past? Yes. So have I. We all made some votes here that we wish we could turn the clock back and undo.

But through it all she has had a consistent course of fighting for families and sticking up for women and children. I remember one of the first bills she did when she was on my committee in the Senate. It was the Pediatric Drug Research Act. Now get this -- I didn't know it. Drug companies developing drugs, but they didn't do research on kids. They treated kids like they were little adults. And so she got a bill passed when she first came to the Senate to mandate that drug companies had do research on children so that they knew exactly what dosages to take. That is the kind of steady, focused person that I know Hillary Clinton is.

CUOMO: Senator Tom Harkin, it's great to see you. It was great to have you here last night and add to the cache of the event.

HARKIN: Thanks, Chris, good to see you again.

CUOMO: Best of luck to you. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, Chris, thanks so much.

The ceasefire is over. Donald Trump going hard against not just Ted Cruz but also a cable news network. What does this mean for his participation in the next Republican debate?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't like her. She doesn't treat me fairly. I'm not a big fan of hers at all. I don't care. She probably, I might be the best thing that ever happened to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Think he'll still show up? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:36] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, Donald Trump has his widest lead yet in the race for the GOP nod. A new CNN/ORC national poll just out shows the billionaire dominating the field and reaching a new ceiling with 41 percent. His closest rival Ted Cruz has 19 percent. This is a brand new Quinnipiac poll, shows Trump leading Iowa less than a week before the caucuses.

Trump now sounding off on his rivals to our Wolf Blitzer and whether or not he will face them in the next debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: What do you have that Ted Cruz doesn't have?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTAI LCANDIDATE: Well, look, I don't want to knock anybody but he's got a lot of problems. He's got a problem with his Canadian birth. He was born in Canada. It's a real question. And as, you know, Laurence Tribe from Harvard and many other lawyers are saying he can't do what he's doing. He he's not allowed to run. And you have some lawyers that say definitively he cannot run.

BLITZER: Is that why his numbers have gone down in Iowa?

TRUMP: I don't know. I think it has an impact, because I think they said 36 percent of the people agree that he can't run for president. He was born in Canada, and he was born on Canadian soil. Now, he can run for prime minister of Canada, but I don't think he can -- I honestly don't know if he can run.

And there's a question mark. And you know, if he ever got the nomination, the first thing that will happen the first day, the first week will be he will be sued by the Democrats. And that's going to be it. I mean, you know, what are they going to do, go two years and nobody's going to know? It would take years to go through the court system. So he should solve that problem.

In addition to that, he has the Goldman Sachs problem where he borrowed a lot of money and never said it. Then he borrowed money from Citibank and he never told anybody. He never disclosed it.

BLITZER: He did disclose it to one entity of the federal government but not to another.

TRUMP: He didn't put it in his personal disclosure form, OK, financial disclosure form. And you've got to do that. I mean, you've got to do it. He's got two banks.

But he didn't do it for a reason. He didn't do it, because he doesn't want people to see that he's borrowing from banks that he's supposed to be regulating.

BLITZER: The establishment Republican candidates, basically four, Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, John Kasich, who do you see as your biggest threat?

BLITZER: You just posted a Facebook video. You say the establishment is against you. Why do you say that?

TRUMP: Well, I think the establishment actually is against me but really coming online, because they see me, as opposed to Cruz, who is a nasty guy who can't get along with anybody.

You know, look, at a certain point you've got to make deals. We can't have a guy who stands in the middle of the Senate floor and every other senator thinks he's a whack job, right? You know, you have to make deals; you have to get along. That's the purpose of what our founders created.

And Ted cannot get along with anybody. He's a nasty person. You don't see that.

BLITZER: You have called Bernie Sanders a total whack job. You said you don't know if Hillary Clinton will make it legally. Who would you rather face in a general election contest?

TRUMP: I don't care. I mean really. I don't even focus on them. I only focused on Hillary for a couple of days last week. I don't even think about Hillary. And I don't think about Bernie Sanders.

The first thing I have to do is we had 17. Now we're down to about 12 or 13. I've got to get rid of them. I've got to win against them. A lot of them I like. They're good people.

There's some really good people in that group. I mean it. Really good people and people that have become friends of mine. You don't see that, because you won't report on that stuff. You know, the conflicts are more fun, right?

But I can't tell you, really, who I'd rather have. I give it a lot of thought, actually, believe it or not. But I don't think it matters.

I can say this: I will win. I'll bring in states that nobody ever thought of. I think I have a chance to win New York. I defended New York. Nobody else was going to defend New York -- last debate and got good credit for it.

[08:20:01] But the people in New York love that I defended them, because nobody ever defends New Yorkers, right?

I'm going to win Pennsylvania. I'm going to win West Virginia. I'm going to win Virginia. I'm going to win Michigan, because I protect the car industry. Nobody else protects the car industry.

BLITZER: You really think you have this Republican nomination in the bag?

TRUMP: No, I think that I have a good chance. I mean, look, I'm leading in all the polls.

Iowa is very important to me. I should say to you -- I should say, "Well, I'd like to do well in Iowa." I don't want to do that. I'd love to win Iowa. If I don't win it, I don't win it. I'll go to New Hampshire, where I have a very big lead, and the people up there have been unbelievably good to me.

But Iowa is very important to me, and I have a great bond with Iowa. And I'm going to keep Iowa where it is. You know, there's a big move to move Iowa to the back of the pack in the next election cycle. I'm not going to do that; I'm not going to let that happen.

BLITZER: Before Iowa, there is a Republican debate, Thursday night FOX is hosting that debate. You and Megyn Kelly have has issues. She's one of the moderators. Are you going to be at that FOX debate?

TRUMP: Well, probably. I mean, I don't like her. She doesn't treat me fairly. I'm not a big fan of hers at all.

I don't care. She was -- she probably was -- I might be the best thing that ever happened to her. I don't know, because who ever even heard of her before the last debate?

But I thought she was very unfair in the last debate. A lot of people said I won that debate. Everybody said I won the last debate.

But I'm not a fan of Megyn Kelly. I don't like her. She probably doesn't like me. And that's OK. But she better be fair.

I would like to go to the debate. I enjoy the debates. I have done well in the debates. Every single poll has said I have won every debate. But we are going to see what happens. Going to be exciting.

BLITZER: When you say probably, you haven't 100 percent decided you will be at the debate?

TRUMP: No. Nothing is 100 percent.

BLITZER: Why not?

TRUMP: I just have -- I'm not 100 percent. I will see. If I think I'm going to be treated unfairly, I will do something else.

But I don't think she can treat me fairly, actually. I think she's very biased. And I don't think she can treat me fairly. But that doesn't mean I don't do the debate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Bob Vander Plaats is the national co-chair of the Senator Ted Cruz presidential campaign. He joins us now.

It's good to have you with us.

BOB VANDER PLAATS, TED CRUZ CAMPAIGN: Good to be with you.

CUOMO: I thought your head was going to fall off. You were shaking during that side to side during that interview.

He says a lot of things about Ted Cruz. He says he doesn't want to be mean to anybody. But he has gone negative, and looking at the polls it seems to have a contributed to a contraction in this race, a positive move for Donald Trump. Do you accept that?

VANDER PLAATS: Well, that's what Donald Trump likes to do. I mean, he first says I'm not going to go negative and then he goes after you.

So, what you saw is that interview as well is, I'm not going to go negative, I'm going to attack him on his birth, when Ted Cruz is totally eligible to be president back in September. What's changed, the poll numbers changed so now I have to attack him on the birth issue.

I can tell you, though, for the people in Iowa, that issue is settled. They like Ted Cruz because he's a principled consistent conservative. I think poll numbers that came out last night from Iowa State University that show Cruz up 26-19 over Trump is a pretty real feel about what we see on the ground right here.

But Ted Cruz is getting bashed from Trump, is getting bashed from all corners. And only one reason they are attacking him is because he's carrying the ball.

CUOMO: When we say they, all these defined terms in politics. They is used in a new Cruz ad where he seems to be talking about New Yorkers or some other group that seems to be distasteful to Iowans, who is they to the Ted Cruz campaign?

VANDER PLAATS: You know, I think what it is, to him, they would be the progressives. They would who want to lead the country in a completely different direction. When he talked about New York values, he wasn't talking about New Yorkers and their response to 9/11. He was talking about Donald Trump's interview with Tim Russert. And Donald Trump was saying, because I grew up in Manhattan that I'm pro choice, because I grew up in New York City that I'm for same-sex marriage. I don't have the same values as those people who grew up in Iowa, who live in Iowa.

CUOMO: He says he's pro-life. He grew he evolved -- Donald obviously.

VANDER PLAATS: Sure.

CUOMO: But he's changed.

VANDER PLAATS: And he still says he will fund the good parts of Planned Parenthood. And to us, the good part, there are no good parts of Planned Parenthood.

CUOMO: Why not? What about all the services that don't involve reproductive rights?

VANDER PLAATS: But it all goes into one thing and that is abortion. And you take a look at their financials, if you take a look at those videos released and the Iowa caucus-goers are conservatives, they want someone who stand up to defund Planned Parenthood and not have taxpayer dollars go there.

But when Trump says, listen, the establishment is warming up to me and this is after he just bashed the establishment to get this high rise, and now, he's saying they are warming up because I'm willing to deal. I don't think that's the electorates' mood today to say we want somebody to deal with Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell. That concerns them.

CUOMO: Senator Ted Cruz was very chummy with Donald Trump for the first portion of this race. Was that a mistake?

VANDER PLAATS: No. Matter of fact, I think Senator Cruz is still is pretty chummy with Donald Trump. He kind of likes Donald Trump.

CUOMO: How much can he like Donald Trump right now?

VANDER PLAATS: He gets the kick because Donald Trump is all about Donald Trump. He's authentic, he's transparent, it's about Donald Trump. He says some outlandish things.

Where Ted Cruz has a difference is on policy. Ted Cruz doesn't believe that Donald Trump is a conservative. He's not a consistent conservative. He didn't wake up and say listen I'm a conservative now.

[08:25:08] So, what Cruz has done, Donald Trump has exposed that we need to take on Washington. The next question then is got to be, well, who's done it?

Cruz is the one who's taken on Washington. So, when Trump says Cruz is a nasty guy, well, maybe to Congress he is, but he has 78 percent favorable rating with the Republican electorate. People like him.

CUOMO: So, why not -- you know, you're talking about Trump's transparency, that that's something that works for him. Why is the senator using more transparency then in terms of even something as simple as how feels about Trump? You can't like somebody who is saying you are not eligible to be president and that no one likes you.

VANDER PLAATS: Well, I think Cruz understands why Trump is doing that. Trump is doing that because he wants to get -- for Donald Trump, he wants to get the nomination.

So I think Cruz takes it all in perspective. Cruz is a very likable guy and the favorable ratings show that. The people who don't like him, the American people don't like, and that is the U.S. Senate, the Congress who just continue politics as usual and keep threatening the future of this great country. So, I think six days from today --

CUOMO: What do you think?

VANDER PLAATS: Well, the pulse I have on the ground, I was with Huckabee in '08, I was with Santorum in '12, I think Ted Cruz has a great shot to pull off a win here. And if he does, it will be an historic win.

CUOMO: Why?

VANDER PLAATS: Because everybody is after him. The governor -- the governor who said I pledge neutrality is now coming full guns after Ted Cruz.

CUOMO: But he says ethanol, it's central to the state. If you go after the subsidy, you're going after the state.

VANDER PLAATS: What he is, is he's really misleading Iowans, because Ted Cruz is for the marketplace. Ethanol has a much greater place and much better opportunity in the upside when it is actually under the mandate to big oil. And so, Governor Branstad is having the back of his son Eric Branstad who's on the payroll to be a hatchet man to take down Ted Cruz. That threatens the Iowa caucuses. So, if Cruz wins this in a full front win of a Branstad and establishment and people saying --

CUOMO: That would be a statement. If he doesn't win, do you think he's still viable?

VANDER PLAATS: I do believe he's still viable. And I think he'll go New Hampshire and make a great case but I think he can win Iowa.

CUOMO: Bob Vander Plaats, thank you for spending the time.

VANDER PLAATS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Good to see you here, we'll be seeing each other plenty --

VANDER PLAATS: We will.

CUOMO: -- for the next week or so. Appreciate it.

Alisyn there is a new Ted Cruz ad that is out here, "Duck Dynasty." He's like hunting chalk on his face.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: And it literally cost me a shirt. I laughed so hard when I first saw it that I spilled what I was drinking on the shirt. Lost the shirt.

CAMEROTA: That is telling, Chris. I also understand that our producers are giving you a half day. So I'm going to good night you. I'm going to say thanks for everything --

CUOMO: Boy, you are all over my work ethic.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: You will notice I'm also neglecting to mention that you had a 24-hour day last night and brought us the great Democratic forum here on CNN.

But great work, Chris. We look forward to seeing you back tomorrow.

CUOMO: It's tough love. I'll see you.

CAMEROTA: Well, the Democratic hopefuls, as you know, they went face-to-face with Iowa voters right here on CNN last night, courtesy of Chris Cuomo. Did Hillary botch her answer to that untrustworthy question? We'll ask David Axelrod, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)