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Cruz: Trump Should Debate Me One-On-One; Millennials Help Sanders Close Gap With Clinton; Interview with Clinton's Press Secretary; Interview with Rep. Michael McCaul. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 27, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:04] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ted Cruz throwing down the gauntlet after Donald Trump drops out of tomorrow's Republican debate. Cruz issuing this challenge.

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SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are effectively tied in the state of Iowa. If he's unwilling to stand on the debate stage with the other candidates, then I would like to invite Donald right now to engage in a one-on-one debate with me any time between now and the Iowa caucuses.

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CAMEROTA: Cruz did not stop there, tweeting out a link to this website calling Trump a Ducking Donald with a mockup of Trump's face on Scrooge McDuck. I've never said those words, Scrooge McDuck, before in a news segment.

Here to discuss, Jeffrey Lord, the author of "What America Needs: The Case For Trump" and a CNN political commentator and a former Reagan White House political director and Alice Stewart is a senior communications adviser for Ted Cruz. Great to have both of you with us this morning. Jeffrey, let me start with you. I mean, you face tough questions from us here at CNN every day. Why should Donald Trump shy away from facing tough questions in a debate tomorrow night?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, years ago, Roger Ailes wrote a book called "You Are The Message" in which he did communicate the idea that everything -- not just what you say, but the way you conduct yourself in synchronization, communicates the message of who you are. What Donald Trump is doing here is communicating the message that he's not going to take guff, if you will, from the media, Fox being the standard at this moment, but I don't need to tell you guys --

CAMEROTA: But what guff, Jeffrey? I mean, Jeffrey, what guff has he taken other than answering tough questions?

[07:34:47] LORD: Right. I mean that's the journalistic perception, obviously. But clearly, out there in America, the media, quote unquote, does not have a particularly favorable reputation. So when he, Donald Trump, goes about this, what he is trying to communicate is, along with everybody else in the world, I'm not going to take stuff from people, whether it's the media, whether it's anybody else. I have to say, I am totally at a loss for that sort of snarky statement from Fox. I mean that wasn't a statement of journalist, that was pure snark. I was astonished that they put that out.

CAMEROTA: Alice, what do you think of Donald Trump skipping this debate tomorrow night?

ALICE STEWART, SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER FOR TED CRUZ: Well it's laughable for Jeffrey there to be surprised at snark when we're talking about Donald Trump. I mean, here's a man who calls his toughest challenger nasty, he calls him stupid, pretty much every name in the book. He is this morning calling Megyn Kelly virtually a bimbo. I mean this is conduct very unbecoming of a presidential candidate. But here's the real telling truth here, is that when the decision was made last night by Donald Trump to say bye-bye to the debate, he said, look, let's see what the ratings are for Fox after this. This isn't about ratings. This is about respect for the process. This is about respect for the people of this country and the people here in Iowa who have been looking forward to this last chance to see the candidates show how they contrast on the issues, show where they stand on these key areas of contrast.

They're making their final decisions on this. We are five days out from the all-important Iowa caucus and they were looking forward to this opportunity to have a good contrast with the candidates and he just took that away. It's not fair for the people of Iowa. Look, if he's afraid of questions from Megyn Kelly, what's he going to do if he were to become president and he were talking with Vladimir Putin, or Kim Jong-Un or any of these people that are enemies of this United States. If he's afraid of Megyn Kelly, then he has no business whatsoever being in this process.

CAMEROTA: Alice, you are making excellent points, of course, but I have to push back and tell you that your candidate, Ted Cruz, has refused to come on our show on NEW DAY. He doesn't make appearances on CNN. What's he afraid of?

STEWART: He's done CNN before. He's not afraid of tough questions. And speaking of what he's not afraid of, he's certainly not afraid of Donald Trump and as you said last night, as soon as we got word -- we had two events last night after Donald decided he wanted to insult the American people and avoid this debate -- he challenged him to a one- on-one debate, Lincoln-Douglas style debate. No moderators. If Donald Trump is afraid of a moderator asking tough questions or being mean to him, let's do Lincoln-Douglas style debate, mano a mano, debating the issues. Needless to say, we haven't heard anything about that.

CAMEROTA: And Alice, can we count on Senator Cruz coming on our show in the next week?

STEWART: Well, I can tell you right now, Alisyn, our schedule is jam packed from here through the caucus week. We'll look at something down the road but our schedule, we are jam packed. Unlike Donald Trump, we have 30 campaign events in Iowa this week. We were done at midnight last night and back again this morning --

CAMEROTA: Got it. Well, our offer stands, our invitation stands and we would love to have him on. Jeffrey, but the point that Alice was making, this is supposed to be about the voters. This is not a reality show. This is not a fight with Roger Ailes. It's supposed to be something bigger. What is Donald Trump going to do about that?

LORD: Well, Alisyn, I really do think that this is about the media. I don't need to tell you guys, of all people, that he picks fights with CNN. He picks fights with "The New York Times", with "The Wall Street Journal". The point here is, what he is communicating to people is that he is not the typical politician. He's not going to follow the typical route and frankly, that these other guys, can you imagine, for example, Jeb Bush standing up to Fox News? I mean, I don't think so. And that's one of the points he's making. That these other folks wouldn't have the courage to do this kind of thing because they're so standard, cookie cutter politicians.

CAMEROTA: It just gets more and more interesting. Alice Stewart, Jeffrey Steward, thank you both. We appreciate you both being on here.

Let's get over to Chris.

[07:40:02] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: so what about the other side, the Democrats. We have a new poll, Bernie Sanders, way ahead of Hillary Clinton when it comes to young voters. So what does this mean as a strength for Bernie Sanders and a challenge for Clinton to get young Democrats? We'll talk to Clinton's press secretary next.

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CUOMO: Iowa caucuses just five days away. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders remain locked in a virtual tie in Iowa. Look at this new Quinnipiac poll. Shows just how tight it is. Both candidates, dead heat. The Vermont senator has the support of 78 percent of Iowans aged 18 to 44. Clinton leads among older members of the electorate.

Let's discuss Hillary Clinton's press secretary, Brian Fallon. What do you see as the need in those numbers in this new poll? You know where you're strong, where your demos are, you don't need the poll to tell you that but what are you doing about it?

BRIAN FALLON, PRESS SECRETARY FOR HILLARY CLINTON: Well, there's so many polls coming out each day now that it makes you dizzy. The point is that the race is very close. We always knew it would be. But we're very confident in the ground organization we have in Iowa and if you look at the behavior of the two candidates in the last few days, I don't think Senator Sanders is necessarily projecting confidence. Yesterday, after weeks of suggesting they were going to win Iowa and saying that they actually needed a very strong performance there, Senator Sanders started to low ball expectations for himself next week. And then today, if you open up the "New York Times", you see his advisers openly discussing the fact that today they're going to be holding a meeting to determine whether they should run their first personal attack ad going after Hillary Clinton. They've started drifting in this direction. They've run ads in the past that have been increasingly negative and this one would be an outright attack on her, on Wall Street, borrowing a page from Karl Rove's playbook with an ad that crossroads ran last week. So if he's starting to go back on promises about not running personal attack ads, then I really think that suggests something about the state of the campaign.

CUOMO: Well, things get a little tougher when we get closer to the wire. His campaign makes the same accusations towards your camp, that you call contrast, but it's really criticism, and that's part of the state of the play. We'll have to see the ad and we'll judge it, you know that. The younger voters part, though -- is that something you're trying to address? He has enthusiasm, the big crowds, what does Clinton do to counter that to get the younger demographic?

[07:45:00] FALLON: We're really pleased with the crowds that we see turning out in Iowa. We're in Iowa every day this week doing public events. Actually, there was a young woman that came up to Hillary on the rope line the other day and was literally in tears just at the fact of meeting her and posing for a picture with her. So we see that enthusiasm. Hillary Clinton exudes heart on the campaign trail so we really reject this idea that this is a head versus heart contrast.

CUOMO: You don't think the young voter thing is an issue?

FALLON: I think that we are finding that we are encountering enthusiasm among young people every day on the campaign trail and I think that will only grow as the choice that's before the voters in terms of Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders really starts to emerge. Bernie Sanders has not really encountered a lot of scrutiny except for the last two weeks, he's increasingly having to back pedal from positions on issues like guns and his health care plan. So I think that voters are taking a second look at him.

CUOMO: A lot of debate drama going on. Obviously, the headlines going on with Trump and Fox News. You don't have any problems of that scale on your side but there is something bubbling up as well on the debate side. What's going on with this, NBC maybe getting, the DNC says, if you do one of these debates that's not sanctioned, you're going to have to lose one of the sanctioned ones. Where's the Clinton camp in all of this?

FALLON: So here's what happened. The Democratic National Committee, a few months back, set up six debates. We've have had four of them so far. By all accounts, they've done extremely well. I think Hillary Clinton in particular has performed well at them. And in the aftermath of those four debates, which have been substantive, elevated affairs, especially as compared to the Republican debates, there's been a discussion about adding more. And all the campaigns have said that they'd be willing to do that, including Hillary Clinton. And so yesterday the union leader, NBC, suggested that -- actually set a date for a debate that they want to hold in between Iowa and New Hampshire because currently there's no debate between Iowa and New Hampshire.

We have said, and Martin O'Malley has said, that we are willing to attend if all the candidates agree. That will allow the DNC to sanction the debate. The Sanders campaign is the one hold out. We think they should join us in saying that they'll be there in New Hampshire next week.

CUOMO: Address the criticism that the reason that the DNC had a short schedule, six debates, was to protect the Clinton Candidacy.

FALLON: That's not true at all. Hillary Clinton has completely said, consistently said that she enjoys debating. I think that shows in all the debates. I think that without exception, she has performed really well at the debates and in the aftermath of them, everyone says that this is really her place to shine because she's so substantive and thoughtful in these forums. So we have said it consistently that in addition to the six, we'd be willing to add more. Now is the opportunity to put another one on the schedule so it's unclear why Senator Sanders is the lone holdout.

CUOMO: Internally, what do you think it happens in Iowa right now? How are you feeling about it?

FALLON: We're feeling good. It's going to be close. It's going to come down to marshalling our forces on Monday night, next week. But we have had a ground organization there since last spring. We were there first. We are supremely confident in the organization that we built there. But we know that Senator Sanders has been on the ground for a while too. We know he's generating a lot of enthusiasm. It's going to come down to the wire.

CUOMO: After the town hall the other night, both -- I watch both candidates as they go down. I always like to see them meet their families and how they're feeling about it there, get back with the team. I heard both of them use the word -- both of them used the word strong, very quickly, both times. Which was funny because we say it all the time here. But how do you feel your response has been since you came out of the town hall? Was that good for the secretary? Has it been resonating? What did you get?

FALLON: Well, in the last couple of days since that event, I think people have been remarking on the sort of contrast in the styles of the candidates at that forum. Senator Sanders was sharply critical of Secretary Clinton. Secretary Clinton brought more of an affirmative message in terms of where she'd like to take the country. And we think in the closing days that the consideration that is going to loom largest in the minds of Iowa caucus-goers is who can protect the gains we've made under President Obama? As we see this sideshow unfurling on the Republican side and the prospect of a Donald Trump or even a Ted Cruz being nominated, we know that whichever of those two it might be that emerges, that they're going to want to repeal the affordable care act. They're going to want to go back on Dodd-Frank financial reform. They're going to want to undo the president's executive actions on immigration. We need somebody that can stand up against those efforts and make furthering roads on all those issues. We're going to have potentially multiple supreme court vacancies in the next administration. So there's a lot on the line and I think that the choice is starting to clarify in the minds of Iowa caucus-goers. The last "Des Moines Register" poll showed that 40 percent of people were still open to changing who they might support. So I think that there's going to be a lot of final processing in the minds of those voters in the last few days and we're confident they'll shift --

CUOMO: Iowans have big ears. Big ears in Iowa. They're very open right up until the last second. Well, Brian, we will see you out in Iowa.

[07:50:10] FALLON: Thanks so much for having me.

CUOMO: Absolutely. John --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, thanks so much. The presidential race all about who will debate with whom and where with which person moderating. You would think those are the biggest issues in this campaign. But what about, you know, something like security? Next, we're going to speak with congressman Michael McCaul about the terror threats that scare him most and, yes, we'll also ask about the debates.

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BERMAN: Donald Trump proving yet again that when it comes to the presidential campaign, he is not following any rules. He is skipping tomorrow night's debate. Maybe he doesn't have to go. He continues to dominate in the polls over his opponents.

Joining us now, Congressman Michael McCaul. He's the chairman of the house homeland security committee and the author of a really interesting book, "Failures of Imagination: The Deadliest Threats to Our Homeland and How to Thwart Them". Chairman, I do want to talk about the book. It is about our security. But first, I want to talk about the campaign because choosing the president of the United States is important to dealing with our security going forward. There's a Republican debate tomorrow night in Iowa. Fox News is hosting, and the front-runner right now for your party's nomination, Donald Trump, says he's not going to go. Good idea?

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: You know, I think the American people deserve to hear from all the candidates in a debate format. So to sort of dodge that, I don't think that's kind of the American way. On the other hand, I understand he's doing an event for wounded warriors. The proceeds of my book go to wounded warrior so my hat's off to that, at least. But I think having debates is part of the process. And participation is part of the process.

[07:55:02] BERMAN: What about the level of rhetoric right now? How is that part of the process? Because you have Donald Trump this morning calling but not calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo, you have Fox News, yesterday, putting out a release out and out mocking Donald Trump, in this fake thing, what if the Ayatollah said this to him behind his back there? Is that a good way of doing a campaign from both the party, the candidates, and the media? MCCAUL: Well, as a Republican, Megyn Kelly's sort of the queen of Fox News and boy, if I took a shot at her, I think I would go down in flames.

BERMAN: Donald Trump's different though, isn't he?

MCCAUL: He somehow survives it and I've been on her show, she's very brilliant, I think. And so, look, this election defies all the rules. There are no rules to this election. I've never seen anything quite like it in my lifetime. Nothing applies to this election. No rules, the old traditional rules, no longer apply.

BERMAN: You're not endorsing yet. If you want to do that right now, we'd love it, but I don't think you're going to do it right now. What do you need to see in your candidate?

MCCAUL: Well, what's in the book. Somebody who can be a commander in chief. Whoever is the next president will inherit a mess. Hot spots of terrorism all over the world, Mr. Putin, China, North Korea, cyber security, Iran's threats of nuclear threats, and it is all laid out in the book in various scenarios and then what can we do to stop it? Whoever I think could be a real commander in chief to stand up just like Roosevelt stood up to, in World War II, and Churchill did, and Reagan and Kennedy stood up to communism, I want a leader that can stand up to Islamist extremism.

BERMAN: The book, again, "Failures of The Imagination", it's a really interesting read. You lay out scenarios, terrifying scenarios, of what you fear could happen and look, your fears are different than the rest of our fears because you're chairman of the homeland security committee. You see things that I don't see, we don't see. You're worried about a decapitation strike at the U.S. Capitol, a detonation of a dirty bomb, maybe smuggled across the border into Texas. An attack on the East Coast power grid. Maybe black widows releasing a deadly strain of smallpox at Disney World. You're worried about China somehow rigging the election. These are terrifying. These are scary. You may see things about these that we don't see. The president, though, says that for all of the threats to the country right now, from ISIS and others, they're not existential threats. Do you agree?

MCCAUL: And he said that in the State of the Union and I have to tell you, maybe we're getting different briefings. Because I don't understand the rhetoric and not meeting the reality of the situation on the ground, particularly when it comes to ISIS. Over and over, he wants to downgrade the threat. The purpose of my book is to educate the American people as to what the real threats are facing the nation and what we need to do to prevent them?

BERMAN: Are they existential threats, though, which is to say they threaten the future of America, the ability of America to be America?

MCCAUL: I think ISIS is an existential threat to the United States. I've always said that and the secretary of homeland security agrees with me, it's the number one homeland security issue right now. Europe poll just issued a warning yesterday about sophisticated attacks in Europe that could happen fairly soon. Those kinds of attacks could happen in the United States as well and that's what I warn about in my book.

BERMAN: Let's just close on China rigging the election. How is China going to rig our election?

MCCAUL: Well, they asked me, what was the most interesting case you ever prosecuted when you were a federal prosecutor and hands down, the Johnny Chung case was because it led me to the director of Chinese intelligence funneling money into the Clinton campaign. And so I felt compelled to tell that story from an inside point of view. In fact, this whole book is really sort of an inside point of view from a counterterrorism official, what I do day in and day out. And of course the Chung case was -- you can't make it up. It really happened.

BERMAN: Mr. Chairman, Mike McCaul, thanks for being with us. Really appreciate it.

MCCAUL: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Lot of news this morning. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dramatic shootout between members of an Oregon protest group and the FBI --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The group's spokesman was killed in a shootout with authorities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The confrontation took place during a traffic stop.

TRUMP: I said, bye-bye. OK? Let them have their debate and let's see how they do with the ratings.

[08:00:01] CRUZ: I would like to invite Donald right now to engage in a one-on-one debate with me anytime between now and the Iowa caucuses.

HEIDI CRUZ: One of the things that hit me very early on in dating Ted was what an incredible family he had and the women in Ted's family are strong. It was love at first sight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, January 27th, 8:00 in the East. Mick is off. J.B. is here and we have news for you.

Donald Trump is doing the unthinkable. He's dropping out of tomorrow's Republican debate just five days out from Iowa. Why? His war with Fox News raging. He's attacking Fox News' moderator Megyn Kelly. We have more on that in moments but we do have breaking news.

CAMEROTA: A violent shootout between federal authorities and armed protesters occupying that federal wildlife refuge in Oregon. The group's spokesman killed, several others are now in police custody including the group's leader, Ammon Bundy. CNN's Sara Sidner is live in Princeton, Oregon, with all of the breaking details.