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Donald Trump Boycotting Tonight's Debate; Ted Cruz Pushing for One on One with Donald Trump; Democratic Candidates at Odds With DNC Over Adding Another Debate. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 28, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

STELTER: ... with the media.

CAMEROTA: We'll see what happens. Brian, thanks so much for walking us through all of this.

We're following a lot of news this morning, including how Trump's decision to skip the debate will play out. Let's get to all of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was not treated well by FOX. They came out with this ridiculous P.R. statement. It was like drawn up by a child.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald is a fragile soul.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Silliness, bombast, and empty rhetoric.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Just want you to consider it. You owe me milkshakes.

TRUMP: We've had six debates so far. Every online poll said I won every one of the debates, especially the last one, by the way.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a show. This is serious.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Life's unfair. You've got to make tough decisions. You can't take your toys and go home.

TRUMP: You know me.

O'REILLY: Will you just consider? I want you to consider, all right?

TRUMP: I don't like being taken advantage of.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their very first sentence to me was, "Do you know Jason Rezaian?"

I said, "Of course. The whole world knows Jason Rezaian."

He said, "He's never leaving and neither are you."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY. Michaela is off. John Berman joins us today. Great to have you.

Donald Trump digging in his heels, boycotting tonight's FOX News debate. Instead, he'll be hosting a veterans benefit in Iowa at the exact same time. All of this over Trump's dispute with FOX News.

CUOMO: Trump's rivals essentially dismissing the Donald, suggesting the move proves he's unfit to be commander in chief. Seven Republicans will be on the main stage tonight, hoping to seize on Trump's decision and make a last-minute surge in Iowa. Remember, just four days to the caucuses.

Let's begin our coverage with Phil Mattingly. He's live in Des Moines -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, you got that right. Four days until the caucuses. And other campaigns right now scrambling.

Donald Trump has essentially sucked all of the oxygen out of the room. That battle with FOX only intensifying.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump only hours away from hosting his, quote, "special event" to raise money for veterans at Drake University in Des Moines. The televised affair airing the same time as FOX's Trumpless primetime debate.

TRUMP: What we have going, and it's really important, it's a movement. It's not like a normal situation.

MATTINGLY: But the GOP frontrunner's decision to stick it to FOX by dropping out is not without irony.

TRUMP: I was not treated well by FOX.

MATTINGLY: Trump, appearing on the network last night, FOX News anchor Bill O'Reilly failing to coax him back to the stage.

O'REILLY: Just want you to consider it. You owe me milkshakes. I'll take them off the ledger if you consider it.

TRUMP: I told you up front. I said don't ask me that question, because it's an embarrassment for you.

O'REILLY: I'm not going to listen to anybody. Right. But I'm not going to listen to any political person telling me don't ask me anything. MATTINGLY: O'Reilly repeatedly asking Trump to debate tonight.

O'REILLY: I'm asking you to reconsider it.

TRUMP: A lot of milkshakes.

O'REILLY: If you don't want to, it's up to you.

MATTINGLY: In Trump's absence, Texas Senator Ted Cruz, running No. 2 in the polls, is likely to be pushed to center stage. Now Cruz is doubling down on his challenge for a one-on-one debate with his biggest rival.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to propose a venue, Western Iowa Tech, Saturday night in Sioux City. We already have it reserved.

MATTINGLY: Cruz's super PAC offering $1.5 million to vets groups if Trump agrees. And Carly Fiorina upping the ante, offering $2 million to debate Trump at Drake. The media spectacle rubbing the rest of the GOP pack the wrong way.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think he'll be missed. In fact, I really don't think Donald Trump is a conservative.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ninety percent of their coverage is on this whole thing. This is not a show. This is serious.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Chris, all eyes tonight at this debate will likely be on Ted Cruz. His campaign obviously moving furiously over these final days to try and close what has been a growing gap in Iowa between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz in the polls.

Obviously, Cruz winning Iowa or coming very close to winning Iowa is essential to his campaign going forward. But as they said last night at Ted Cruz's event over and over again, Donald Trump is that roadblock. Expect the attacks to come fast and furious tonight.

CUOMO: Polls very tight. Could be either man's race. That's for sure. Donald Trump active this morning on the Twitter. Talking about this. Here's the latest offering.

Wow, two candidates called last night and said they want to go to my event tonight at Drake University. I think they have a schedule conflict. We'll have to see how that plays out.

Republican pollster Kellyanne Conaway, she's with us. She runs a super PAC that supports Ted Cruz. And Mr. Geoffrey Lord, former Reagan White House political director and CNN political commentator, also a supporter of Donald Trump. Always good to see you both. So first things first. There's an offer out from the Cruz camp. Let's do another debate, you and me.

Cruz and Trump. And if you care about the veterans, let's marry the two things. We can raise money there, too. Any response?

KELLYANNE CONAWAY, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Sure. Well, Senator Cruz went and put the challenge to Mr. Trump, saying, "Look, we're the two frontrunners. Everybody calls this a two-man race." Ironically, in December, it was a two-man race between Cruz and Rubio. Now it's a two-man race between Cruz and Trump. So he's at least the common denominator in the two-man races.

[07:05:15] And he said, "Let's do a veterans event. Let's raise money for the veterans." And last night, two of the families, Chris, that fund the super PACs say that their family money, not super PAC money, would put up about $1.5 million to all types of veterans organizations if Mr. Trump would debate Senator Cruz any time between now and Saturday night.

CUOMO: The point is you don't have to do these things separately. You can do them together.

CONAWAY: Yes, one hour. One-on-one. I think the voters just deserve to hear these closing arguments from everyone. This whole idea that, oh, we've had six debates. Everybody's heard enough. Really, people are struggling. They want to hear philosophical differences, not just personal insults.

CUOMO: All right. So Geoffrey, there's a vanity interest in the media in watching Bill O'Reilly kind of, you know, really offer up this please, please debate rationale to Donald Trump last night. Bu is there merit to the idea of shortchanging the voters, that they do deserve to see you do your best against your competitors this close to the caucus?

GEOFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that they've been saying this. I mean, we've had six debates already.

But really, what I think -- you know, the media landscape, I don't have to tell you guys, has changed. I mean, the very fact that Donald Trump or anyone else, for that matter, but Donald Trump is superb at this, communicating with Twitter and getting around the mainstream media, is something I think a lot of people like.

A lot of people out there are very, very frustrated with the media. If you notice that -- in that confrontation between Donald Trump and Megyn Kelly in the original debate there that sort of launched this situation, after he gives his answer, the audience bursts into sort of wild cheering applause, which I think is indicative of the reception that the media gets from a lot of Americans.

CUOMO: Hold on a second, Geoffrey. I hear where you're coming from. Let's refocus this for one second.

I don't think this is about us, meaning the media. This is about FOX News and Donald Trump. This is about what's going on inside your party. If there are people in that room who were cheering, they weren't cheering because she represents the media. It's about these two very different ideas about what your party should be. Isn't that a more fair assessment? LORD: No, no. They were cheering his answer deliberately, because

they feel that the media writ large, I mean, that includes just about everybody, including me, I suspect, you know, are unfair to their -- to their candidates, to their party. I mean, this has been a long- standing issue.

CUOMO: That was their media, though. That's all I'm saying, Geoffrey.

Kellyanne, to you.

CONAWAY: Exactly why Senator Cruz is asking Mr. Trump to debate him one-on-one outside of the debate that Mr. Trump has boycotted. So if his problem is really with FOX News and Megyn Kelly and the FOX News statement and his problem is not debating, allowing voters, Chris and Geoffrey, the direct form of democracy that allows voters to turn on their TV sets, turn on their computers, and get access to these candidates and their vision for the country.

So if the problem is with FOX and Megyn Kelly, then come to this other one-on-one debate.

CUOMO: And Geoffrey's right. I've had a lot of debate, but you also have as many, if you look at the polls, 40-plus percent of the people still aren't sure what they're going to do. So there are a lot of open minds.

Let me ask you something, though. So the good news is, Trump's not there tonight, so Ted Cruz will have the stage to himself in terms of this two-man dynamic.

The bad news is Trump's not there tonight, and you have a lot of long swords that will be out trying to take the space that Cruz occupies. How big a challenge is this going to be?

CONAWAY: It's a challenge, because they'll gang up on Cruz. He's the person who's most competitive on that stage tonight. Obviously, Iowa has come down to the two of them. Everybody else is in low single digits or single digits, Chris.

But why not mention -- maybe some of them will mention Donald Trump. Maybe the moderators will start out an opening statement. Please comment on what you think about Mr. Trump's decision to not be here tonight. What's your message to the Iowa voters?

But I will say this. The upshot of all of this is that the 1-2 punch of Trump and Cruz in this cycle has left the establishment flat on their backs, and they're not recovering. They're not -- they're hardly even part of the conversation. When you add up, even in the latest CNN poll, Chris, the establishment candidates, they're like 25, 28 percent. It's really remarkable.

CUOMO: Now, where that changes, though -- and I'll bring you in, Geoffrey, to get your take first -- in Iowa, I hear you on that. We're all looking at the same numbers. New Hampshire, very different game. And a lot of people will be playing that game tonight. They know where they are pretty much in Iowa.

But Geoffrey, you've got a lot of people who were right on top of Cruz in New Hampshire, and that's going to become the next most important state. How much is at stake for these -- you know, what Kellyanne is calling the establishment candidates. I'm not crazy about that term, by the way.

CONAWAY: They're really not crazy about it.

CUOMO: But, you know, for Christie, Kasich, Bush, New Hampshire is a real situation for them, especially versus Cruz. How big will that play tonight?

LORD: Yes. It is -- it is a big deal for them. And Ted Cruz himself said the other day, I believe, that if Donald Trump won in Iowa and won in New Hampshire and South Carolina, essentially he was saying that's the end of it.

[07:10:09] I think that the contest here is between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. These other guys are competing, but they're just not getting any -- any start here in some of these places. So I think it's very critical. If they don't do very well in New Hampshire, they're not going to be able to go very much longer.

CONAWAY: Let's remember. This is proportionate delegation. We don't get to winner take all states until March 15. So everyone who competes at some level will come out of Iowa with delegates. It's not like you come out with zero. It's very different this time, Chris.

I mean, by the Florida contest in 2012, it really came down to Romney and Newt. They had won a couple of first contests. It was winner take all. So Rick Santorum did a smart thing. He left Florida and went to some of these caucus states.

This time, it's incumbent on these candidates to stay in the race in these states, because you can walk out with some delegates and still be competitive. When you get to March 15, it's winner take all, and then somebody who starts scooping up these big states and delegates, many delegates, dozens of delegates, that person has an advantage.

I think that's what the Bush campaign is banking on. If he just stays in there at 3 percent nationwide, and his super PAC spent $80 million to get him to 4 percent, that somehow when you get to winner take all states, he's going to start vacuuming them up.

But he's going to have to get past this juggernaut that the establishment that for years has crucified conservative candidates like Trump and Cruz. You're not electable. You can't win. It's always been a really deal breaker for them. That conversation is over. The people in the establishment, like it or not, are trying to prove they're electable.

Look, John Kasich, the governor of Ohio, who I've known for many years. He's a great man. He's a wonderful governor. He's not even competing in the heartland in Iowa. He's competing in New Hampshire. It tells you something about the philosophical ideological picture. CUOMO: Right. Where we are right now. So as you look at it,

Geoffrey, you believe this was a good move for Donald Trump not going tonight, and you think that this will help make the case for him to be the leader of America?

LORD: Yes. Yes, I do. I think it taps into the frustration a lot of Republicans and conservatives have with the mainstream media. I really do think that. And it shows, you know, once again, he's decisive. He's not afraid to act. He just doesn't talk. He does it. And I think a lot of people respond to this.

CUOMO: I think it's very interesting that you're using FOX News as a reflection of people's feelings about the mainstream media. I think that's very clever of you.

LORD: You know, it's very interesting -- it's very interesting, Chris, that off in the hinterlands, as it were -- Rush Limbaugh was saying this just yesterday -- that when he travels around and talks to people, out in the hinterlands, as it were, there are a lot of folks that are not all conservatives who are not all that thrilled with FOX News, because they don't think it's conservative enough. They don't have those complaints about Rush and talk radio, but they do have it about FOX News. And I find that, you know, this is a very interesting situation.

CONAWAY: We all love the veterans, so if he can elevate that and some money can be raised, including if he will debate Senator Cruz one-on- one, then.

CUOMO: It's true. But that's the appeal to mix the two makes sense. But to use it as an option -- that's why you have veteran groups like Rieckhoff coming up in the IAVA saying don't use it that way. Help us with your policies. Don't use this as political pawns.

CONWAY: They say that to Mr. Trump. Yes.

Yes. Thank you very much.

Now, coming up in our 8 a.m. hour, we're going to talk to Republican candidate Senator Rand Paul. By the way, he's back on the main stage tonight. What does he think of this? Stay with us.

CAMEROTA: All right. Debate issues also front and center for the Democrats. The candidates are at odds with the DNC over adding another debate in New Hampshire before the primary.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live in Des Moines, Iowa, with details about this.

Hi, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

I mean, there hasn't been a Democratic debate in Iowa since November. So it's been a long time since the voters here have seen the candidates on a formal debate stage. And now the Clinton campaign is saying that they are willing to do a

debate next week in New Hampshire. The Sanders campaign is saying not so fast. They're willing to do that only if she agrees to a debate in March, April, and May. Something that would, of course, stretch out this debate cycle and this campaign primary.

But yesterday, Bernie Sanders was at the White House visiting with President Obama one-on-one in the Oval Office, talking about the campaign. But then he returned to Iowa last night. And he tried to point out that Hillary Clinton was absent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My opponent is not in Iowa tonight. She is raising money from a Philadelphia investment firm. Frankly, I would rather be here with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Bernie Sanders, of course, trying to make a point that Hillary Clinton is raising money the old-fashioned way. But Hillary Clinton, to be fair, was in the state of Iowa yesterday earlier, campaigning at all places at a bowling alley, excuse me. So she was doing that.

And then Bill Clinton was also campaigning in the state yesterday. So the final push is on here. But the reason that the Clinton campaign is interested in debating now again is because the race is so tight. It's neck and neck here in Iowa.

And in New Hampshire, of course, Senator Sanders still has a fairly substantial lead here. So going into this weekend, it is critical for all sides to mobilize their supporters, Sanders and Clinton here for the duration until the Iowa caucuses finally begin on Monday -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely, Jeff. OK. Thanks so much.

And we are just four days from the Iowa caucuses, and we're taking NEW DAY on the road for this big event. We'll be live on Monday from the Mars Cafe in Des Moines.

If you're in the area, please stop by. We'd love to have a cup of coffee with you. Of course, CNN will have live coverage of the Iowa caucuses all day long on Monday.

BERMAN: The president will sign a presidential memorandum to create a White House task force on cancer. This is according to "The New York Times." This is the first step in finding a cure for cancer, which the president mentioned in his last State of the Union speech.

Vice President Joe Biden, who of course, lost his son Beau to brain cancer, he will lead this panel. The group will meet for the first time next week.

CAMEROTA: The investigation into the prison escape at Orange County, California's largest lock-up, leading to the arrests of five people with more arrests likely. Several of those in custody, alleged Vietnamese gang members. Two of three jail escapees allegedly have ties to this gang. The trio accused of murder, attempted murder, and torture. They are still on the run. Investigators say they're sure the men had outside help.

CUOMO: A midair mystery on a flight from London to Los Angeles. The American Airlines plane forced to return to Heathrow Airport Wednesday after six people onboard became ill, including a flight attendant who passed out.

So far, investigators have found no evidence of what may have made them sick. Paramedics checked out the patients after the plane landed.

BERMAN: Just what I want to hear.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: Mystery illness. Always good.

CAMEROTA: Yes. All right. With Donald Trump out of the picture, GOP rivals are hoping to steal some of his thunder during tonight's debate. Will it work? We'll speak with a strategist for Jeb Bush's campaign to preview his plan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:00] CAMEROTA: With the GOP frontrunner, Donald Trump, sitting out tonight's debate, the other candidates are hoping for a chance to break out. For Jeb Bush, who has been lagging behind in the polls, it is a much-needed opportunity.

Here to tell us how Bush plans to take advantage of tonight is David Kochel. He's a senior strategist for Jeb Bush's campaign.

Good morning, David.

DAVID KOCHEL, SENIOR STRATEGIST, JEB BUSH CAMPAIGN: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY. OK. Jeb Bush sent out a tweet about Donald Trump yesterday. Let me try to read it for everyone. Basically, what he's saying is -- well, I'll just summarize it. OK. Donald Trump can't handle -- if he can't handle the FOX News debate, what else will he not be able to handle, he's saying there.

Does Jeb want Donald Trump to show up tonight or not?

KOCHEL: Well, he's betting twenty bucks that he does show up. Look, this has kind of turned into a side show. I think the people of Iowa deserve and expect them to make their case. There might be an opportunity, though, if he doesn't show up for candidates who have more serious plans to actually talk about those plans and what they do for the country. So it could go either way. Who knows what he's going to do?

CAMEROTA: OK. So what is Jeb's strategy tonight to break out of the PAC?

KOCHEL: Well, I think to actually talk about his plans for fixing the big problems the country faces. He would like to talk about his plan to reduce taxes and create 19 million jobs. He was the first candidate to come out with a plan to actually defeat ISIS at the Reagan Library several months ago.

I think it's an opportunity to really take this campaign to the next level, where you're talking about more serious issues that people really want to focus on.

And the people of Iowa and New Hampshire expect that. I think it's time to kind of put the silly season behind us and actually talk about the issues that people care about, and that's what Governor Bush intends to do tonight. It's what he intends to do for the caucuses and in the following weeks in New Hampshire and South Carolina in Nevada.

CAMEROTA: David, "The New York Times" reported this week that there are a group of senior GOP leaders -- these are elected officials and donors -- who are sending a message to Jeb and to a couple of others to withdraw from this race if they don't break out of the pack soon. What's Jeb's response to them?

KOCHEL: I think we need to let the voters decide. The voters in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, they'll decide who's going to be the nominee of the Republican Party, and then, of course, Super Tuesday, March 1 and March 15.

I think all the prognostication, all the polling, you know, people can talk about it. Gives the pundits something to do. But it's really the voters who are going to decide this. And so we're looking forward to the caucuses here on Monday night and then, of course, the New Hampshire primary, where we spent a lot of time and a lot of focus on February 9.

And so we're looking forward to actually having the voters decide. I think that's, what -- that's the right way to approach this. It's not going to be some insiders in Washington who are going to decide this. It's going to be the voters.

CAMEROTA: David, I know it's cold out there, because I see your eyes tearing and I know it's not because you feel emotionally about this issue. But I know how cold it is, and I appreciate you standing outside for us. But what is a satisfactory slot for Jeb to come in in Iowa or New Hampshire?

KOCHEL: Well, I think in Iowa, you know, it's traditionally a state where -- where evangelical conservatives do better. You had Senator Santorum and Governor Huckabee perform well in 2008 and 2012. What we need to do here is we need to be the serious governor who excels in Iowa. And then takes our message on to New Hampshire, where...

CAMEROTA: Sure, but I mean...

KOCHEL: ... we're in second place and moving up.

CAMEROTA: OK, so in other words, if -- if Jeb can finish third, I mean, that's the traditional -- there's three tickets out of Iowa. If he can finish third, you move on. If you can finish second or third in New Hampshire?

KOCHEL: Well, I don't -- I don't know if there's three tickets out of Iowa. I think this is such a big field and a different race. I think that, you know, we need to exceed expectations. We're running in the governor's lane. Someone with a record of accomplishment. I think we need to be the best governor coming out of Iowa.

[07:25:08] And as I mentioned, we're moving up fast in New Hampshire. And I think we'll have a very strong finish there. I don't know if it's going to be first, second, third. I think the key thing here is to -- is to win our lane and to be the governor with a record of accomplishment who can take that message on through the rest of February and into the March primaries.

CAMEROTA: David, on a personal note, I know that you've been forward about your battle with leukemia. And you wrote this incredibly poignant message to cancer, and I just want to read it for folks, a little bit of it.

Because you say, "As for you, leukemia, here's my message to you. I'm not just going to beat you. I'm going to utterly humiliate you. You're going to be sorry. You'll never want to try me again. I promise. And when I'm bombing down the mountain at Vail next year on my new Burton snowboard, I'll let out a war whoop that you'll hear from your graves."

And you know, gosh, David, that's such an -- that's an intense message. And I do think that it says something that you're still out on the campaign trail in the morning there in the cold. Why are you doing this when you have this health battle?

Well, that's only one part of my life, and I take that battle seriously. In fact, the day after the New Hampshire primary, I'll be headed back down to Houston to M.D. Anderson for another round of treatment. But this is an important thing for the country. And my son joined the Marines this last year, and I care about who's going to lead this country. Who's going to be our commander in chief.

I started with this campaign before it was a campaign, really last January. And I'd like to see this battle through, as well. And so I think -- you know, I think we can handle both. I don't -- I can't work as many hours as I would like to because of the treatment that I'm in, but you know, it's worth it to me to put the time and effort that I can towards this campaign in addition to the fight against leukemia, which by the way, I am going to win.

CAMEROTA: David Kochel, we are pulling for you. Thanks so much for sharing a piece of your personal story and talking about Jeb today. Great to have you on NEW DAY. BERMAN: Everyone on his side.

KOCHEL: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to John.

BERMAN: Everyone on his side there, Alisyn. Thanks so much.

An Illinois police lieutenant kills himself in a scheme to avoid criminal charges. Now it is his wife who could face time behind bars. Why? Find out next.

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