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Donald Trump Criticized for Decision Not to Attend Republican Presidential Debate in Iowa; Hillary Clinton's Campaign Requests Another Democratic Presidential Debate in New Hampshire; FBI Arrests 3 More Occupation Protesters; Interview with Senator Rand Paul. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired January 28, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Answer the questions, look out for the folks. Just want you to consider. You owe me milkshakes. I'll take them off the ledger.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I told you upfront, I said don't ask me that question.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If thinks don't always go your way, it just seems kind of weird.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, I might come back.

TRUMP: At some point you've got to start doing other things other than debating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can the people of Flint today as we sit here, can they drink the water?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. We don't want them to.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor, will you resign?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn't declare a state of emergency until January of this year. Why did it take so long?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's January 28th, 8:00 in the east. Michaela is off. J.B. is here. And tonight's final Republican debate before the Iowa caucuses will be missing its frontrunner. Donald Trump is planning a competing event at the same time, saying the treatment he has received from FOX News deserves the eye for an eye treatment.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the seven candidates who will be on the stage hope Trump's absence gives them an opening with the caucuses now just four days away. So let's begin our coverage with CNN's Phil Mattingly live in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Jeb Bush yesterday told reporters that he'd bet $20 Donald Trump would still find a way to show up at this debate. Jeb Bush is likely going to have to pay somebody $20. The ink is dry on the venue that Donald Trump reserved for this evening. Tickets are already out, another element of a race that's been topsy-turvy throughout the last couple months, frustrating campaigns and definitely shining the light on an escalating feud between Donald Trump and FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump on hours away from hosting his, quote, "special event" to raise money for veterans at Drake University in Des Moines, the televised affair airing at the same time as FOX's Trump- less primetime debate.

TRUMP: What we have going, and it is really important. It is a movement. It is not like a normal situation.

MATTINGLY: But the GOP frontrunner's decision to stick it to FOX by dropping out is not without irony.

TRUMP: I was not treated well by FOX.

MATTINGLY: Trump, appearing on the network last night, FOX News anchor Bill O'Reilly failing to coax him back to the stage.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Just want you to consider it. You owe me milk shakes. I'll take them off the ledger if you consider it.

TRUMP: I told you upfront, I said don't ask me that question because it is an --

O'REILLY: Right, but I'm not going to listen to any political person tell me don't ask me anything.

MATTINGLY: O'Reilly repeatedly asking Trump to debate tonight.

O'REILLY: I'm asking you to reconsider it.

TRUMP: A lot of milkshakes.

O'REILLY: If you don't want to, it's up to you.

MATTINGLY: In Trump's absence Texas Senator Ted Cruz, running number two in the polls, is likely to be pushed to center stage. Now Cruz is doubling down on his challenge for a one-on-one debate with his biggest rival.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to propose a venue -- Western Iowa Tech, Saturday night in Sioux City. We already have it reserved. MATTINGLY: Cruz's super PAC offering $1.5 million to vets group

if Trump agrees. And Carly Fiorina upping the ante, offering $2 million to debate Trump at Drake. The media spectacle rubbing the rest of the GOP pack the rest way.

RAND PAUL, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think he'll be missed. In fact I really don't think Donald Trump is a conservative.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And 90 percent of their coverage is on this whole thing. This is not a show. This is serious.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: So, Donald Trump making a stand? Or Trump only stands for himself? That is the balance of propositions presented by this debate debacle. Let's test the two sides. Ben Ferguson is a CNN political commentator and a conservative radio host. And Katrina Pierson is the national spokesperson for the Trump campaign. Katrina, we start with you. It seems that this is a done deal. He will not be at the debate tonight. Can you confirm that? And what do you see to be the upside of this?

KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, yes, I can confirm that. Good morning. This is really more about the respect that Mr. Trump has been given particularly by FOX News. Everyone saw the statement that came out. It was extremely unprofessional. Mr. Trump has been the frontrunner of the Republican Party in this race since he entered in June. And it was extremely disrespectful. And it's not just about Mr. Trump. It is about that 40 percent of the base that is supporting him nationwide.

The upside to this is now Mr. Trump can focus on doing something he's been wanting to do for a very long time, and that is to hold an event for veterans.

CUOMO: Is that what this is about, Ben Ferguson? Finding a way to raise money for veterans? I saw you shake your head and smiling a non-smile. What is your point?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, look this is a sick and vile move by a guy that loves that to throw those words around, Donald Trump, to use wounded warriors and their true battle scars to his political advantage.

[08:05:00] I would say this to Katrina. I'm not dumb enough to buy that this is about the veterans because Donald Trump has never held an event for veterans on his campaign to help and support them with raising money. He uses them for cover now. You have veterans that aren't able to walk. You have veterans that have lost limbs. And because you don't like someone that says something about you at FOX, you then decide to use them.

Now, remember, this is a guy who said John McCain is not a hero, a war hero or a war veteran, because he got captured, and I don't like people that get captured. Donald Trump also tried to kick veterans who had special permits to sell things to make a living in New York City away from his hotels multiple times because he said they were a nuisance and were bad for his properties.

So for him to come out now in a self-righteous way and to say I'm going to stand up for veterans and I'm going to do an event that I haven't had time to do until it was convenient for tonight, many veterans are going to be turned off by this. Many have said they think this is disgusting. They went and fought for their country and now Donald Trump uses them as political pawns. I'm sorry, I can't support it and it's sick.

CUOMO: All right, the head of the IAVA --

PIERSON: Well, in fact --

CUOMO: Katrina, just so you know, it's not just Ferguson. The head of the IAVA, Paul Rieckhoff, a very respected guy in that community, says we're not going take any o donations from Trump's event. We need strong policies from a candidate. That is what we need, not this type of situation to be used as a pawn. Your response?

PIERSON: Well, yes, it is not in fact just about veterans, Ben. And I think you know this more than anyone. This is not the first time Mr. Trump that is talked about helping veterans, and you should see the veterans that come out to his events that do support him. This event sold out in less than two hours. There are a lot of people that want to do this, and it is not just a reason or an excuse, for that matter.

FERGUSON: Sure it is.

PIERSON: The concept was if I'm not going to do the debate, then I'm going to do something. And that is what he wanted to do.

More importantly, this isn't just about Mr. Trump. This is about the 40 percent of his base that is constantly offended on a daily basis from pundits like Ben who tell everyone that they shouldn't be supporting Trump and here are the reasons why. Everyone has their own life experience. There are major issues across the world. And we have an American political system where a news network can mock a presidential candidate who is leading in the Republican Party who has also has connections to other campaigns as well as policies on the Hill.

FERGUSON: Katrina, if you are going to act like -- if Donald Trump really gets this hurt emotionally over a statement put out by FOX News, he should read his own Twitter feed.

PIERSON: It's not emotional.

FERGUSON: On paper, it's about three or four tweets on average of what Donald Trump puts out every day. The point is this -- he can dish it, he cannot take it. And as soon as he gets in trouble with anybody he doesn't like. As soon as someone doesn't say I'm obsessed with Donald Trump, I love Donald Trump, he says they're idiotic, they're stupid, they're moronic. The same way he's treated veterans that were around his buildings by trying to kick them away from trying to make a living, the same way that you guys have never done an event to support the veterans to raise money for them in your entire campaign until tonight when it was politically an opportunity for you to come out and say we are going to save the world and our veterans that we love. You never did it beforehand, which means you didn't believe it in beforehand. It is only now because you got in trouble and you said --

PIERSON: Then you have not been paying attention to the Trump campaign.

CUOMO: Katrina?

PIERSON: Then you haven't been paying to the Trump campaign. But I'll --

FERGUSON: Have you ever had a fundraiser.

CUOMO: Let her go, Ben.

PIERSON: This is a business decision.

FERGUSON: It is a business decision.

PIERSON: -- tens of millions of dollars on Donald Trump and his viewers. This is what this is about as well.

FERGUSON: Are you running for president? Or are you running a business?

PIERSON: Ben, are you going to let me respond?

CUOMO: Katrina, go ahead.

PIERSON: This is about the viewership on FOX News where FOX News has been very hostile towards him. This debate was also in conjunction with the NRO, which everyone saw the against Trump piece. So why is it are you going to trash the Republican frontrunner and then invite on to do your debate and make you tens of millions of proceeds to any charities for that matter?

FERGUSON: Are you running for president or is it all about the money, because I think it's important for voters, Katrina --

PIERSON: Mr. Trump has been --

CUOMO: Hold on. Katrina, let him respond you. You made your point. Ben, respond.

FERGUSON: Katrina, you are acting as if Donald Trump is somehow running a business here. Which one is it? Is he running for president and truly wanting to fix this country, or is everything about the money? Because everything you just said is about the money. It's like how dare somebody make case off of Donald Trump? If you want to go back into private business, then go sell clothes. That is fine with me. Go out there and attack the veterans who are selling things around your buildings where you say they are a nuisance.

[08:10:05] But don't act like you are holier than thou and somehow doing this for the greater good when all you are talking about is how much money people are going make tonight. I want someone who is running for president who is not worried about their own personal finances, and that's your talking point. Donald Trump is making other people money.

PIERSON: That's not true. We're not talking about his personal finances.

CUOMO: All right, Katrina then, go ahead and respond.

PIERSON: Mr. Trump is running for president. Mr. Trump is running for president. FOX News is running a business. Mr. Trump has been the most accessible candidate than all of the candidates. He's answered all of the questions. He's had the most town halls. He's made the most appearances in the media. He's the one out there going to the people. He's had the most rallies, the most people attending those campaigns, Ben. This is running for president. You have to make tough decisions. And if someone wants to exploit you, you protect not only yourself but your 40 percent of the supporters of the Republican primary. That is who we're talking about here.

CUOMO: Katrina, in terms of the state of play here, it seemed that Bill O'Reilly last night on the FOX News Channel was very solicitous of Donald Trump in trying to convince him to rethink this situation. Do you know if Mr. Ailes or indeed Mr. Murdoch have one or both reached out to Donald Trump to try to change this?

PIERSON: No, not to my knowledge. I do not know if there have been any phone calls made. Mr. Trump has been very clear about his expectations with regards to FOX News and attending the debate. He's definitely excited about the event that we're going to have tonight in conjunction with the debates. And moving forward Mr. Trump will plan on attending other debates. This is nothing different than the RNC who pulled out of a debate because a network was being dishonest and unfair. This is the exact same thing.

CUOMO: Let me ask you this, though, Katrina. Is this something we can expect to be repeated going forward? Like if the next time I interview Mr. Trump he doesn't like something, does that mean that there's going to be a boycott of CNN, there will be a boycott of our next town hall or a debate? Is this a new tactic or is this a one- time thing?

PIERSON: I think Mr. Trump comes on CNN all the time and he does all the shows to take all of your questions whether they're fair or not. This is different. This is a debate the network was constantly discouraging him and his supporters. By the way, we keep leaving that out that 40 percent of the base are supporting Mr. Trump and they are disparaged on a daily basis.

CUOMO: Katrina, Ben, we're going to leave it there.

FERGUSON: Chris, I've got to say this. Let's be clear, though. I got to say one thing. The question that Donald Trump is so upset about for Megyn Kelly was Megyn Kelly quoting his own words. If that is now an unfair question --

PIERSON: As a TV character.

FERGUSON: She was literally quoting his own words. If I go back and I go back --

PIERSON: As the TV character.

FERGUSON: I'm now banished from the campaign?

CUOMO: That is the question but we have the rebuttal as well.

FERGUSON: As a TV character.

CUOMO: Look, I appreciate you guys letting each other speak. There is obviously a very big conflict going on within the ranks right now. Thank you for giving us the disposition of the state of play. Katrina, Ben, appreciate it. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You can tell we are four days from the Iowa caucuses. The margin razor thin on both sides. On the Democratic side the candidates talking about debates as well, specifically about whether there should be one added next week just before the New Hampshire primary? The campaign perhaps at odds with the DNC. CNN's Jeff Zeleny live in Des Moines with more. Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, John. One of the biggest differences between the 2008 campaign that we're talking so much about now and this campaign is the number of debates. We had more than 30 debates in 2008. Well, in this campaign on the Democratic side so far only four debates.

Now, Hillary Clinton is saying she wants to do more debates. That is a change of position that she had earlier this year because suddenly this race of course is so much more competitive with Bernie Sanders. Listen to what she said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like the chairman of the party and the campaign to agree that we can debate in New Hampshire next week. That is what I'm hoping will happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, of course, we will find out if there is a debate next week in New Hampshire. The Democratic National Committee is not so sure. They said that there would be no debates next week.

The Sanders campaign is saying, look, we will do more debates, but not right now. Jeff Weaver, the campaign manager, said Senator Sanders is ha happy to have the debates, but we're not going to schedule them at the whim of the Clinton campaign. He says they will do the debates in March, April, and May.

So John, this is signifying one thing. This campaign on the Democratic side is likely to stretch out far beyond the early states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina. It is likely to go so much further. So Alisyn, in the final days of this campaign here both sides trying to mobilize their bases.

[08:15:00] We have Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, and Bernie Sanders, of course, and so many more surrogates. So a competitive final stretch here -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: They are pulling out all the stops, Jeff. So true. Thanks so much for that report.

We are just four days away from the Iowa caucuses, as Jeff said. So, we're taking NEW DAY on the road for the big event. We'll be live on Monday from Mars Cafe. That's in Des Moines.

If you're in the area, please stop by. We'd love to say hi. And, of course, we'll have live coverage of the Iowa caucuses all day on Monday.

Also, breaking overnight now, three militants occupying the Oregon refuge have been arrested, but not everyone is listening to group leader Ammon Bundy's request to go home.

CNN's Sara Sidner is live in Burns, Oregon. She spoke exclusively with protesters who are still holed up at the refugee.

Sara, what did they tell you?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, we were on the phone this morning with Sean Anderson. She says he's still on the refuge with his wife Sandy and there are three others who are on that refugee with him. They have been negotiating with the FBI.

But they said, look, here is what we've been offering the FBI. We offer that if they let us come out of this refuge, we will leave. We will go back to our respective states. He lives in Idaho. The others live outside of Oregon. So, they will leave Oregon altogether.

But they will not leave if it means that they are going to be arrested. That is what he told me. He says, look, if they let us go. They don't make us go through a check point. We will leave the refuge. We will get out. We will do so peacefully.

Otherwise, he said he's not afraid to die. He wanted the world to know that he absolutely would never kill himself because he believes in heaven and that goes against his beliefs on how one who you would make it to heaven. He was very clear headed in the way he was talking about what exactly they plan to do.

But they are still talking to the FBI. He said the FBI made some promises to them that they would not be raiding them this morning, that they would continue talking and not go in just at this time.

But it is a tense situation. We are standing where the road is closed. And you can see the lights behind me is where the check point is and there are snipers that are sitting up on that check point as cars come through -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you very much. We'll keep monitoring the situation.

Also this morning, we have new video of drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman behind bars. This is shortly behind his capture. The 19-minute video released by the Mexican attorney general's office, it shows for the first time "El Chapo" getting fingerprinted, giving a blood sample, standing for a mug shot, signing documents and being questioned.

It also explains in detail how the drug lord escaped prison last July.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Jimmy Fallon taking a swipe at Donald Trump over the debate boycott. Well, Stephen Colbert gets the scoop on an ice cream flavor inspired by Bernie Sanders. In case you had to go to sleep last night, lucky you, the best of the late night last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JIMMY FALLON: Trump said he's not going to the debate because moderator Megyn Kelly is biased against him. And Trump has a right to be scared because usually when a younger, attractive woman disagrees with him, she ends up taking half his stuff. So, you see why --

(APPLAUSE)

STEPHEN COLOBERT, THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT: Ben created a limited edition ice cream just for Bernie Sanders called "Bernie's Yearning". We already have "Bernie's Yearning". Why not Caramel Fiorina? Or Martin O'Malamar, or Mike Huckabee's Life Begins at Confection, or maybe Hillary's whatever flavor you want this to be.

(APPLAUSE)

I'm sure. Delicious, delicious. I'm sure the public would go for Ben Carson's Ambient Ambien Crunch, or Jeb Bush's Double Vanilla, and Chris Christie's Blocky Road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: I'm laughing at something else.

BERMAN: Me, too. Very serious campaign.

CAMEROTA: That is great. Submit your ice cream flavors here.

All right. Meanwhile, Donald Trump ripping a page out of Rand Paul's playbook by skipping tonight's debate. What does Rand Paul think will happen tonight as he returns to the main stage? The senator joins us live when NEW DAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:22:41] SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I think Donald Trump taking his ball and going home, there's absolutely no risks. It's an improvement to the debate. The IQs of the debate went up a couple dozen points I would say. He thinks he's already elected himself king. So, I'd say good riddance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Senator Rand Paul, welcoming Donald Trump's decision to boycott tonight's debate. This as the Kentucky senator returns to the main stage after skipping the last undercard debate himself.

Did Donald Trump take a page out of Senator Rand Paul's book? Let's ask Republican senator and presidential candidate, Rand Paul.

Good morning, Senator.

PAUL: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: Great to have you. I know you're out in the cold. Is Donald Trump tonight pulling a Rand Paul?

PAUL: Well, it's kind of the opposite actually. I was lobbying to get into the debate and he's running away from the debate. No, I think he's very much afraid of questions about his bankruptcies. Maybe afraid about the fact that he's actually never voted in a Republican presidential primary.

So, you know, for 70 years, he's been a progressive Democrat. I was wondering if maybe he was going show up in the Democratic primary debate the next time.

CAMEROTA: Hmm, touche. But it is similar to what you did. You had a slot in the undercard debate. You had your issues with being shunted to that debate and you decided to skip it. He says he has his issues with one of the moderators, so he's skipping.

PAUL: Well, the difference is I was lobbying to be in the debate. I think there is only really one main debate, and I thought we deserved to be in it. I was never lobbying to avoid questions from a tough questioner.

And I think really what he's done and what he's said about the moderator in question is inappropriate and he should be shunned for it.

I mean, the kind of things he said I won't repeat on TV. I won't repeat in front of mixed company.

So, I think that he has brought the debate, the presidential debate, the tenor of the debate to historic low. So, yes, I think it's fine if he misses because it does bring up the respectability of the debate when you don't have a guy that's talking about things that really are inappropriate even in mixed company.

PAUL: The inappropriate things you are referring to are the words that he's used to describe one of the debate moderators, Megyn Kelly.

[08:25:01] And you think that it goes beyond his feelings about Megyn Kelly. I've heard you say that you think that he has --

PAUL: We lost her signal. We lost her signal.

CAMEROTA: Can you hear me, Senator? Senator, can you hear us? Senator?

I think we're having audio issues.

All right. We'll take a very quick break. We'll get Senator Rand Paul back in one second. Stick around. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Let's bring back in Republican senator and presidential candidate, Rand Paul.

Senator, so sorry about those issues. I'm sure it was something John Berman did.

But let's get back to where we left off. You were saying you think that the things Donald Trump said about the moderator Megyn Kelly are so inappropriate you don't even want to say them on the air. But you think it's bigger than that. Do you think he has issues with women?

PAUL: I think he doesn't like to talk about, you know, his bankruptcies. And I think, you know, part of his shtick is that he's all powerful. He's so rich you can't imagine how rich he is. That he's going to fix the country.

And I don't think he likes to be challenged about the fact that, you know, he's been bankrupt four times. He doesn't want to be asked questions about, you know, what happened to the workers that didn't get paid when he stiffed his creditors.

I think he also doesn't want to ask the question or answer the question about, you know, what does it mean to be a candidate that wants more power to gravitate to the presidency. So, there is a longstanding tradition monk conservatives, myself included, that we want to limit the power of the executive. We don't want a strong executive. We want more checks and balances between Congress and the president.