Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Republicans Spar in Trump-less Iowa Debate. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired January 29, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Isn't that better than the debate that's going on?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I kind of miss Donald Trump. He's like a little teddy bear to me.

TRUMP: Look at all the cameras, like the Academy Awards.

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm supporting another candidate for president. That doesn't mean we can't work together when it comes to helping on you veterans.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everybody's friends except for Ted Cruz, but it's a falseness.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You changed your position on immigration. You used to support a path to citizenship.

BUSH: So did you.

RUBIO: Well, but you changed in the...

BUSH: So did you, Marco.

TRUMP: Will I get more votes? Will I get less votes? Nobody knows. Who the hell knows?

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton cannot be the president of these United States.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me tell you who is not qualified to be president of the United States: Hillary Rodham Clinton. She is not qualified to be president of the United States.

TRUMP: It's for our vets, and you're going to like it, because we raised over $5 million in one day.

(END VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

it is Friday, January 29, 6 a.m. in the east. A very different debate. That's the word about the final Republican have at 'em before the Iowa caucuses. More substance with Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio fighting for the spotlight. Jeb Bush also stepping up. But there was something missing.

CAMEROTA: Or someone. Trump's absence looming large in the debate as he put on his own show just three miles down the street.

So who were the big winners and losers in last night's face-off, and how will it impact the caucus goers in Iowa? Let's begin our comprehensive coverage with John Berman. He's live in Des Moines for us with all of the highlights and lowlights.

Hi, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Alisyn.

Be careful what you wish for. Everyone in this Republican race has been waiting and praying for a moment when Donald Trump would exit well. They got it last night to an extent. He was not on that stage. But the atmosphere he created by not being there, one of peril.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:00:08] BERMAN (voice-over): For a debate stage absent of Donald Trump, it was hardly a debate absent of Donald Trump. From the very first question...

MEGYN KELLY, CNN ANCHOR: Before we get to the issues, let's address the elephant not in the room tonight.

BERMAN: ... to the very first joke...

CRUZ: Let me say, I'm a maniac, and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat, and ugly. And Ben, you're a terrible surgeon. Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way...

BERMAN: ... to a completely changed dynamic, where with no Trump lightning rod, other candidates had to dodge bullets.

CRUZ: I would note that the last four questions have been, "Rand, please attack Ted. Marco, please attack Ted. Chris, please attack Ted. Jeb, please attack Jeb." Let me just say this...

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: It is a debate, sire.

CRUZ: No, no, a debate actually is a policy issue, but I will say this: Gosh, if you guys say -- ask one more mean question, I may have to leave the stage.

BERMAN: And some candidates got flat-out more attention. This was Rand Paul questioning Hillary Clinton's values relative to her husband's infidelities. PAUL: I do think that her position as promoting women's rights

and fairness to women in the workplace, that if what Bill Clinton did, any CEO in our country did with an intern, with a 22-year-old, 21- year-old intern in their office, they would be fired. They would never be hired again.

BERMAN: The most extraordinary moment of the night even came on an issue Donald Trump put front and center: immigration. It led to an all-out melee: Jeb Bush versus Marco Rubio.

BUSH: I'm kind of confused, because he was the sponsor of the Gang of Eight Bill that did -- did require a bunch of thresholds that ultimately allowed for citizenship over an extended period of time. I mean, that's a fact.

And he asked me to support that. And I -- I supported him, because I think people, when you're elected, you need to do things.

RUBIO: Interesting that Jeb mentions the book. That is the book where you changed your position on immigration, because you used to support a path to citizenship.

BUSH: So did you.

RUBIO: Well, but you changed it in the book.

BUSH: So did you, Marco.

RUBIO: You wrote a book where you changed your position from -- you wrote a book where you changed your position from a path to citizenship to a path of legalization.

BERMAN: Rand Paul versus Ted Cruz.

PAUL: I was there, and I saw the debate. I saw Ted Cruz say, "We'll take citizenship off the table, and then the bill will pass. And I'm for the bill. But it's a falseness. And that's an authenticity problem, that everybody he knows is not as perfect as him, because we're all for amnesty.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz versus Marco Rubio.

CRUZ: You know, John Adams famously said facts are stubborn things. The facts are very, very simple. When that battle was waged, my friend Senator Rubio chose to stand with Barack Obama and Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer and support amnesty. And I stood alongside Jeff Sessions and Steve King, and we led the fight against amnesty.

RUBIO: This is the lie that Ted's campaign is built on, and Rand touched upon it. He's the most conservative guy. Everyone else is a -- you know, everyone else is a RINO. The truth is, Ted, throughout this campaign, you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes.

BERMAN: Chris Christie versus everyone.

CHRISTIE: I feel like I need -- I feel like I need a Washington- English dictionary converter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: And I wanted to play all that immigration sound there at once. As you get a sense, at the end of that, and that was a lot of talk right there, they all ended up a little bit with blood on their nose.

The one guy who wasn't bloodied at all, Donald Trump, seen there drinking his Diet Coke. He avoided that whole melee right there, and in some ways, emerged a winner -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, John. Thanks so much for showing us all of that.

As Trump's rivals faced off, the billionaire front-runner putting on his own show. It was a benefit for veterans three miles down the road. Two of his competitors, Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee, both past Iowa caucus winners, showed up over at Trump's event.

CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar spoke with Trump before the event. She joins us live now from Des Moines, Iowa. Brianna, give -- that was a great interview that you did with Donald Trump on his plane. It was so revealing of lots of things. So give us the latest this morning.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, thank you so much.

He really took aim at Ted Cruz, even before he took some criticism from the entire Republican field on stage at that debate. Donald Trump really hit Ted Cruz in this interview that I did with him at Des Moines Airport.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): Inside a packed auditorium at Drake University in Des Moines.

TRUMP: Look at all the cameras, like the Academy Awards. This is like the Academy Awards.

KEILAR: Donald Trump boasting about the big turnout for his veterans' event and the millions of dollars he says he raised.

[06:05:02] TRUMP: This is a special night for me, and I had no idea this was going to happen. We started out literally 24 hours ago, maybe less. We had no idea, and we went out. We set up the website. I called some friends. And we just cracked. The sign was just given -- we just cracked $6 million, right, $6 million.

KEILAR: Just a few miles away, GOP candidates onstage squaring off at FOX's primetime debate, with Trump out of sight but not out of mind.

BUSH: I kind of miss Donald Trump. He was a little teddy bear to me.

KEILAR: The businessman with FOX on the brain, too, addressing the feud before the crowd.

TRUMP: When you treat it badly, you have to stick up for your rights. FOX has been extremely nice and -- the last number of hours, actually. And they've wanted me there. And they said, "How about now? They called a few minutes ago. How about now? Can you come over?"

I said, "Hasn't it already started?" They wanted me to go and apologize and everything else. They did apologize. And they could not have been. But once this started, it's for our vets. There was nothing I could do.

Will I get more votes? Will I get less votes? Nobody knows.

KEILAR: Trump largely holding back jabs at the debating candidates. Instead, touting his own poll numbers and speaking about the problems veterans face.

TRUMP: Our vets are being mistreated. Illegal immigrants are treated better, in many cases, than our vets. And it's not going to happen anymore. Not going to happen anymore.

KEILAR: But earlier that night, Trump knocking his biggest rival, Senator Ted Cruz, in an interview with me.

(on camera): Ted Cruz has been he -- not just Ted Cruz but also those who support him have been hammering you when it comes to your previous views on late-term abortion.

TRUMP: I am hammering him on his on his views where he was born. And he's weak. By the way, he's very weak.

KEILAR: But you said -- you said to my colleague just recently, Dana Bash, you said I don't want to talk about that when you were asked about your previous support for late-term abortion.

TRUMP: He did a big commercial. He said I ripped down a person's house.

KEILAR: But what does that have to do with...?

TRUMP: It has a lot to do with it.

KEILAR: ... you wanting to talk about this issue of late-term abortion.

TRUMP: Excuse me. It has a lot to do with it. Because he's very dishonest in what he's doing.

KEILAR (voice-over): Two other rivals, Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee, actually showed up at Trump's event.

SANTORUM: Not to be offensive, I'll stand a little bit over here so I'm not photographed with the Trump sign.

KEILAR: The two former Iowa caucus winners standing alongside the current frontrunner.

HUCKABEE: Rick Santorum, Donald Trump and I might be competitors in a presidential race. But tonight we are colleagues in unison, standing here for the people who let us breathe every breath of free air we breathe, the veterans of the United States of America.

KEILAR: Trump's competing event was meant for veterans, but it's playing out amid an all-out war for the attention of voters and viewers.

TRUMP: Isn't that better than this debate that's going on where they're sleeping? Right? They're all sleeping. They're all sleeping. Everybody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right. Brianna, you stay with us. You didn't look cold enough. And you just got the "excuse me" from Donald Trump. And you know what road that puts you on. So you stay with us right now, and let's bring back John Berman, as well, and CNN political commentator, political anchor at Time Warner Cable News, Errol Louis.

Let's take the luxury of having a debate, Errol, that does not have Donald Trump in it, so he is not relevant to it in terms of the issues. Here's the big issue of the debate last night. Help us understand it from your perspective.

On immigration, who is guilty of changing a position for political motives? Is it Rubio because of the shift from earlier to what he wanted to achieve with the Gang of Eight? Or is it Ted Cruz with what he said in hearings versus what he is saying now?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think in both cases. I mean, you have Rubio backpedaling as fast as he can from the Gang of Eight bill. And frankly, if you talk about -- you listen and talk now about what he wants, it's sort of a modified Gang of Eight Bill. You know, he's got all of these different conditions, but in the end, he's in favor of some path to legalization.

Ted Cruz is now trying to sort of recast and recharacterize, and he cited, actually, a couple of radio commentators. He cites, you know, Mark Levin. He cites Rush Limbaugh. "Oh, they agree with me." I mean, they're partisans. They're entertainers. They're doing something completely different.

But he did shift from being a Texas senator, which is really kind of where he was coming from at the time, saying, "I support some kind of a path." We want to bring people out of the shadows to this new position. And the new position is essentially nobody at any time will ever sort of make it into this country.

Both of them, I think, are -- have changed their position. They have changed with the politics. And unfortunately, they both are of the opinion that you can't say that the facts changed, your mind changed, the electorate changed.

CUOMO: That's the real problem, isn't it?

LOUIS: The party changed.

CUOMO: That's exactly what happened. It's you're not allowed to switch. And what their personal motivations were for switching wind up drawing the analysis.

LOUIS: Right. Exactly right.

CAMEROTA: And so that came up, obviously, last night, as we've heard little bits and pieces of, but let's hear it, again. Megyn Kelly pressed Marco Rubio about this, John. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:10:03] KELLY: Within two years of getting elected, you were cosponsoring legislation to create a path to citizenship: in your words, amnesty. Haven't you already proven that you cannot be trusted on this issue?

RUBIO: No, because if you look at the quote, and it's very specific, and it says blanket amnesty. I do not support blanket amnesty. I do not support amnesty.

KELLY: You went on -- you said more than that, sir.

RUBIO: No. I said I do not support blanket legalization.

KELLY: You said earned path to citizenship is basically code for amnesty.

RUBIO: It was.

KELLY: You supported earned paths to citizenship.

RUBIO: It absolutely has been. The time and the context of that was in 2009-2010 where the last effort for legalization was an effort done in the Senate. It was an effort led by several people that provided almost an instant path with very little obstacles moving forward. What I've always said is this issue does need to be solved.

CAMEROTA: So John, what's the feeling this morning about how he navigated all of that?

BERMAN: Marco Rubio, the goal for Marco Rubio on the issue of immigration at every one of these debates has been to muddy the waters, to play to a draw. That is the best he can hope to do in a Republican primary atmosphere where immigration has become an explosive issue.

But any time you're talking about immigration at length for Marco Rubio, I think it's fraught with peril, which is why someone like Ted Cruz, I think, is willing to take the risk to engage. Ted Cruz has his own issues with what he tried to do with the

amendments. But I think he's willing to take some hits there. He's like, "You know what? I'm going to jump off this cliff, but I'm going to wrap my arms around Marco Rubio while I'm doing it and take him with me."

CUOMO: Now Brianna, isn't that part of the problem? Megyn Kelly asking another question. It's the context of it that is worthy of discussion, which is why is it so wrong in politics right now for Senator Rubio to have realized we will never get anything done if we do it this way.

I'm going to try and get something done that at least moves the ball on immigration towards changing this system. Why is that political suicide in the GOP right now?

KEILAR: You know, when you talk to voters, quite frankly, and you talk to them about Marco Rubio, this is one of the big issues that they have with them. I mean, just -- if you're looking at the Republican base, you're looking at what they want. They want to talk about border security. They don't want to talk about there being some pathway to citizenship or even some sort of in between, between their not being a pathway and their being a pathway.

That's why even with Jeb Bush, you've seen his position, which has certainly backpedaled a little bit from a full pathway to citizenship. But there's still a little something there. And it's just something that is really damning with voters. It's like a third rail. And that's why you see these guys running away from it.

So Errol, who won last night and who lost?

LOUIS: I thought that, really, all of those sort of mainstream candidates. I thought Kasich, I thought Bush, I thought Rubio and Cruz all did better without Trump in the room. I would call all of them winners on some level. I thought some of the lines that came from Chris Christie sort of fell flat, that it was -- it was almost as if he was preparing for kind of a raucous debate, the kind that happens where Trump is in the room. And so he had all of these little zingers, but it didn't really sort of quite hold together, because there was an intelligent policy discussion going on.

And then -- then Carson, I think, you know, he had a little word salad, a little bit confusing. And look, he completely baffled, actually, with his conclusion, where he sort of recited a preamble to the Constitution and said, you know, "Let's do it."

CAMEROTA: His closing statement was the preamble to the Constitution. He was saying, "It's not too late, folks. We can get back there." You thought that struck the wrong chord?

LOUIS: I interpreted that as him...

CUOMO: Good memorization skills.

LOUIS: Very good. I thought of it as him trying very hard to hold onto of his delegates, people who said that they would caucus for him. Trying to say, "Look, it's not too late. Please stay with me." You know, because apparently some of them, if you believe the polls, have been wandering over to Rubio and have been wandering over to Cruz.

CUOMO: J.B. and Brianna, split the plus minus on the Trump event. J.B., what are you hearing in terms of why this may have worked in his favor? And Brianna, pick up from him and tell us what you think the down side is that you're hearing out there on the hustings.

BERMAN: Let me tell you one reason why I think people say it works in his favor. That exchange you saw with Megyn Kelly. One of the things that FOX News did in this debate was play video clips of each candidate, sort of hold their face to the mirror, show them what they've said in the past and how they've changed their positions.

They did it to Rubio, and they did it to Cruz, and it was rough stuff. Right? Well, you know. You just know that stunt was designed for Donald Trump. Where they could play things that Donald Trump has said in the past on many issues. It was something, I think, perfectly suited for what they wanted to expose in him. He didn't have to face it. He wins by not being challenged in that way. He avoided, I think, perhaps, you know, something that could have been very damaging there.

CAMEROTA: And I would like to tell you the negatives on -- on what this approach that he took. But I'm not really sure that there are any really big negatives for him. One of the questions that I pressed him on was something he's been getting dinged left and right on from Ted Cruz and his supporters, and that was his support for not just abortion but late-term abortion, where he said that he was for abortion, basically through and through. And he said this as recently as 1999 to Tim Russert.

[06:15:05] He would not answer that question at all; asked him four different ways. He wouldn't go for it. And that was something that he was able to avoid, not being on that debate stage last night, an issue that's really important to Iowa Republicans.

CAMEROTA: We heard you, Brianna. I mean, you kept -- you pressed him. You pressed him.

KEILAR: I tried.

CAMEROTA: We heard it. I mean, I don't know what more you can do, other than...

CUOMO: You're in the club now.

CAMEROTA: I mean, he kept distracting and distracting. He would interrupt you. But that was a substantive issue that voters deserve to hear. But he deflected. OK, panel, thanks so much. Stick around. We have much more to talk about. We have two presidential candidates coming up on NEW DAY in our 7 a.m. hour. Mike Huckabee joins us live. In our 8 a.m. hour, we'll talk to Ben Carson about his performance last night.

CUOMO: So it is being called as metaphor, the elephant that wasn't in the room. Donald Trump's boycott of last night's debate. You heard us discussing will it help or hurt him? Well, one of the aspects that we didn't discuss yet is the role of veterans in all of this. They were obviously the focus of his fundraising. But how did they feel about it? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:20:20] TRUMP: Look at all the cameras, like the Academy Awards. This is like the Academy Awards. This is the Academy Awards. We're actually told that we have more cameras than they do by quite a bit, so that's sort of it (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, that was Donald Trump comparing his rally for veterans to the Academy Awards, while his Republican rivals squared off on the debate stage just a few miles away. Did Trump's debate gamble pay off?

Here to discuss: John Berman and Errol Louis. We're also joined by CNN senior political analyst and editorial director for "The National Journal," Ron Brownstein. Guys, great to have you with us.

Ron...

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: ... let me start with you. Let me just play what Donald Trump said last night was all about. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We wouldn't have even been here if it weren't for our vets. And our vets are being mistreated. I didn't know we were going to raise $5 million. We actually raised close to 6, to be totally honest. But -- and -- and I have to say, a lot more to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, Ron. He said they raised close to $6 million. We're not sure where he's getting his figures. Because when we go to the website that he directed people to this morning, it says $570,000 raised. I don't know if you can see that. But at the top in blue it says $570,000.

CUOMO: It says "over."

CAMEROTA: Over $570,000 raised. But nevertheless, I mean, that's still good money.

What did you think of this gambit? BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, I think we -- first of all, front-

runners often find reasons not to debate. And at some level, that's what we saw last night.

Second, we don't really know how voters in Iowa, which is very protective of its role as the first in the nation, you know, kind of testing, touching, pulling at the candidates, will react to Trump not only kind of dissing the other candidates.

But in effect, missing the process here by pulling out, but the biggest thing, I think, Alisyn, is last night went as well as it did for Trump because of the choices the other candidates made not to engage him.

And I thought, in that way, the debate really encapsulated the strategic gamble or maybe strategic muddle of the entire race. All of the other Republicans continue to put more energy into emerging as the last remaining alternative to Trump than they do in trying to slow down Trump, who based on the polls yesterday, he is within reach of doing something no Republican has ever done in a contested race, which is winning Iowa and New Hampshire in South Carolina. And if you do that, being the alternative to that may be like being the last guy squashed by King Kong. So we'll see.

CAMEROTA: But, Ron -- but Ron, I mean, how was that illustrated last night? They -- you thought that they should have talked about him more and gone after him more vociferously?

BROWNSTEIN: I think they should have at least made the case that he was showing disrespect to the voters of Iowa more effectively. And yes, they had many opportunities to kind of raise arguments about Trump and basically make the case he was not there to defend his record. And he wasn't there, because he didn't want to have to defend his record.

CUOMO: But "Trump stinks" isn't getting a whole lot of purchase for any of these other candidates right now. They've all been saying it. It's not exactly traction.

J.B., to Ron's point about, "Hey, bring up something that's critical about this situation last night." Veterans groups have been doing that. That's something we haven't touched on yet. Most notably, the head of the IAVA, which is a massive and very well- respected organization, Paul Riekhoff, he's saying, "Look, when we want to asked for policies, these guys are ghosts. We can't get what we want. Now it's expedient, politically. All of a sudden we're in the limelight." What do you think about that angle?

BERMAN: We talked to veterans groups yesterday, you know. And last night he said the same thing. They said don't use us. We don't want to be part of this. Talk about the issues. That's what matters more.

You know, I don't think there's any question that Donald Trump used the issue of veterans for political expediency. He raised some money in the process of being politically expedient, but it was political expediency.

Hot off the presses, Chris, I do want to show you one thing. I just had someone hand me a "Des Moines Register," the paper of record here in Iowa. And the headline is brutal for Ted Cruz. It is "A Rough Night for Ted Cruz." This is the paper of record in Iowa. If you have a headline on the Friday before the Iowa caucuses who say a rough night for Ted Cruz, that explains what went on. And I think what we're going to see over the next few days is Ted Cruz trying to recover from that.

BROWNSTEIN: I agree.

CAMEROTA: Not all veterans appreciated what Trump was doing last night, and some sat out on principle. Here is Peter Kaufman from Vote Vets. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER KAUFMAN, VOTE VETS: If Donald Trump wants to give money to veterans, he should give money to veterans. But why does he have to hide behind us, because he's afraid of Megyn Kelly? I really don't know what this event is, but it certainly has nothing to do with veterans, other than they serve his public relations interests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Again, they've also pointed out that, in the past, prior to last night, he actually had given more money to the Clinton Foundation, to World Wrestling Entertainment than he had to, according to "The Daily Beast," at least their report, than he had to veterans.

But last night, I mean, maybe he turned that all around.

LOUIS: Well, I'm not so sure about that. I mean, you never know how veterans are going to vote. They're Americans, too. So they span the gamut of political opinion.

[06:25:18] But you know, I can't be the only one who has wondered why, if we care so much about our veterans, there are so many commercials raising money for this cause and that cause. And then you look at the news, and there's another V.A. scandal. The veterans have a complicated set of policy and financial needs that they have been putting before the public for years. And the political class generally, Trump in particular in this case, have done exactly what you've seen. They say $6 million. You look, you can't find the $6 million.

You want to talk about policy issues, as this gentleman is talking about, and they're nowhere to be found. The discussion has not happened in any of the seven debates. If you really look at it, it's not as if you've heard any kind of detail, any real specificity. The veterans have every right to be upset, to be frustrated. And, you know, maybe you take Trump's money; maybe you don't. Maybe it's $6 million. Maybe it's a tenth that amount. But that's not -- I'll tell you what's really important. What's really important is if there's going to be a discussion about this stuff, this is not the way to conduct it.

CUOMO: And Ron, to end it on the politics of the up and down of last night, yes, you can argue about how Trump, as you say, removed himself from that scrutiny and was on the others to make the case against him. What did this mean for Ted Cruz, to that "Register" headline that J.B. held up there before?

He did have guys taking aim at him in a way that he hasn't before. Thanks, J.B. appreciate it. Although such a downgrade from your beautiful visage. How did he hold up to scrutiny as No. 1, and how did he come out of last night?

BROWNSTEIN: I thought he had one of his worst nights, I agree, at a debate. He was -- I think he may, you know, that first answer when he chose not to directly confront Donald Trump for skipping the debate. And he never really recovered. He never really recovered his energy. He spent a lot of the night on the defensive.

I thought Marco Rubio was the most distinctive presence on the stage with his -- particularly his hawkish answers on national security. But he also took some serious incoming on immigration, as did Ted Cruz.

Again, I think, Chris, that they are all betting that if you -- and very explicitly, when you talk to the staffs, that if you can get to a one-on-one race with Trump, that ultimately he has a ceiling. That has been the assumption all the way through.

I think what is becoming increasingly clear is that you can't make a case against him to a Republican audience. That ceiling may be a lot better than you're hoping as the other candidates, especially if it does this unprecedented trifecta of winning Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina. Those polls yesterday put them into reach. That they're kind of waiting for each other to do it, a kind of tragedy of commons, as they say. Each hoping the other will take him down. But they have all have a more urgent need, and they are reflecting to slow down what could be a tremendous burst of momentum over the next couple weeks.

CAMEROTA: Ron, John, Errol, thanks so much.

CUOMO: Programming note: we're going to take NEW DAY on the road for the Iowa caucuses. Monday we will be at the Mars Cafe in Des Moines. If you're in the area, please stop by. It's all on Alisyn.

And we will have live coverage of the Iowa caucuses all day on Monday. Literally, as the race moves, you'll know it here first.

CAMEROTA: I am happy to buy anyone a cup of coffee.

CUOMO: This never happened before.

CAMEROTA: I have a corporate card.

Don't feel bad, New Hampshire, because we're coming to you on Tuesday. The morning after the caucuses, we'll be live from Manchester. Stop by to see us there at the Waterworks Cafe. No reference to Chris's weepiness. As the race moves to the Granite State.

CUOMO: I was going to say, you'll be crying in there because you paid the bill the day before. But I guess you're too smart.

All right. So Donald Trump says he raised $6 million for veterans last night. Did he? And if he did, was this a virtuous cause? We're going to talk to an Iraq War vet, Congressman Tulsi Gabbard. Let's hear what she says matters about all this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)