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New Day

Ben Carson Interview. Did Trump or Fox News Win the Ratings Race? Honoring Detective Joseph Lemm. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 29, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We the people of the United States, in order to perform a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the benefits of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And Dr. Ben Carson joins us now live from Iowa.

Good morning, Dr. Carson.

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So why did you want to close - why did you make your closing statement the Constitution Preamble?

CARSON: Because I wanted to bring people's attention to the original intent. You know, establishing justice. How important is that? And, you know, recognizing that, you know, there have been a lot of things that have happened that don't take into consideration everybody. For instance, you know, somebody who's a minimum wage earner, they get a moving violation. We don't give them a mechanism for paying that off at $5 a week. And, you know, that frequently leads to other kinds of problems. You know, ensuring the domestic tranquility. Again, that's only going to happen when we create a situation that is fair for everybody, providing for the common defense. That becomes incredibly important right now when we're dealing with radical Islamic terrorists who want to destroy us. You know, promoting the general welfare, creating an atmosphere that allows all the people in our society to thrive.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CARSON: Not picking and choosing, you know, certain ones. And looking out for the benefit of our posterity, instead of borrowing from their future and destroying it.

CAMEROTA: So let's talk about how you think last night went. I know you were not pleased at the amount of time you got. You got six minutes, and you're right, that was certainly less than Marco Rubio, 13.5 minutes, Ted Cruz, 13 minutes 11 seconds. Jeb Bush, Kasich, Christie, Rand Paul. You were at the end there with six minutes. Why do you think the Fox moderators didn't come to you more?

CARSON: Well, you know, I probably spoke the less but had the most to say, if you actually listened to what I had to say. I'm not a controversial person. So perhaps the entertainment value is not the same. But, you know, it reminds me a little bit of ancient Rome, where everybody wanted to go to the Colosseum and see the blood and gore while their society was crumbling around them. I'm hoping that in America we the people can see through all of that and begin to understand that unless we address these very serious issues, we're going to go the same way as other pentacle nations before us. We have an opportunity to learn from their mistakes and make corrective adjustments now.

CAMEROTA: Do you think this election has gotten too gory?

CARSON: I believe that we are - have been defocused. You know, we're not looking at the important things. One of the things that threaten to destroy us, as we undermine the fiscal foundation of our nation. You know, I think Josef Stalin perhaps put it best. He said, if we want to bring the United States down, we have to attack these three things - their spiritual life, their patriotism and their morality. We need to be focusing more on those things.

CAMEROTA: There was one answer that you gave last night about what you would do if President Vladimir Putin invaded Estonia and some people say that they were confused by your response. So let me play that for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON: I think we ought to give Ukraine offensive weapons. And I think we ought to fight them on the economic basis because Putin is a one-horse country, oil and energy, and we ought to fight them on that level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, you say Putin is a one-horse country, oil and energy. We ought to fight them on that level. Can you clarify what you meant in that statement?

CARSON: Sure. You know, the reason that we won the Cold War was we won the economic war against Soviet Union. And right now, you know, the reason that Putin is relatively under control is because the price of oil is so low. You know, he has upgraded his nuclear arsenal. He would be doing a lot more, because he doesn't have nearly the resources that we do. We should try to keep him in that position. You know, we have, you know, so much natural gas, for instance, and we have the ability to liquefy it now and to transport it and to sell it to Europe at a much lower price than he is. Probably cut him - undercut him by $6.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CARSON: And why don't - why don't we begin to do things like that? It will have tremendous effect.

CAMEROTA: And - but in terms of the question that was posed to you, that if he invaded Estonia, would you declare war, basically, on Russia, what's the answer to that?

[08:35:08] CARSON: Well, I came back to that at the - at the end of my explanation and I said, yes, you know, Article V of the NATO treaty indicates that we have a responsibility there, and by all means that I would honor that obligation.

CAMEROTA: You might just have heard Michael Smerconish a moment ago. He was just on our air, our pundit, radio talk show host, and he said that at this point he feels as though you're acting as a spoiler for Ted Cruz and that if your poll numbers don't go up after this debate or certainly after Monday's caucuses, that you're basically just leeching support from him and that you might want to reconsider running, or getting out. What do you say to that?

CARSON: I would say that maybe some of these pundits ought to reconsider their jobs because they're wrong on virtually everything. Why would they be right now?

CAMEROTA: So you have no - regardless of what happens on Monday - well, let me ask you this. What do you think is going to happen on Monday? What number slot do you think you'll have in Iowa?

CARSON: I think it will be much better than anybody's anticipating. We're seeing a lot of movement on the ground. And I think as we get closer to people actually voting, they begin to think seriously, not about being entertained, but, you know, what is going to save our nation? And, you know, I am actually looking for a pretty substantial showing there.

CAMEROTA: All right. Dr. Ben Carson, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY. We will see you in Iowa.

CARSON: All right. Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, one quick programming note. We are taking NEW DAY on the road for the Iowa caucuses. We'll be live on Monday from the Mars Cafe in Des Moines. If you're in the area, please, stop by for a stack of blueberry pancake. CNN will have live coverage of the Iowa caucuses all day on Monday.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Have you heard a stack of blueberry pancakes being called a stack of blues? That's what Camerota tells me they're called. Please, tweet us, and by us I mean @alisyncamerota, Alisyn with a y.

And on Tuesday, the morning after the caucuses, we'll be live from Manchester, New Hampshire. Stop by to see us at the Waterworks Cafe. Of course, the race moves from Iowa to the granite state.

CAMEROTA: All right, well, Donald Trump may have raised millions for vets by holding a benefit and sitting out last night's debate, but at what price? We'll talk about the plus/minus of that move, next. CUOMO: Plus/minus, that's my line.

CAMEROTA: I know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:32] CUOMO: Time now for the five things to know for your new day.

Number one, Republicans squaring off on immigration and other issues in their final debate before Monday's caucuses. Donald Trump skipping the debate over a feud with Fox News. He held a rally a few miles away.

The FBI releasing video of their confrontation with wildlife refuge occupiers in Oregon. It shows Robert LaVoy Finicum exiting his truck. Police say he then reached for a gun twice and that's why they opened fire and wound up killing him.

Ethan Couch, the so-called affluenza teen, is due to appear in a Texas courtroom this morning. The detention hearing marks the first time appearing before a U.S. judge since fleeing for Mexico and missing an appointment with his probation officer last month.

A man in police custody after two guns and a Koran were found inside his luggage at Disneyland Paris. The man says he was carrying the guns for his own protection. Police still looking for a woman who might have been with him.

Musician Paul Kantner has died. He was a founding member of the rock group Jefferson Airplane and its spin-off Jefferson Starship. Kantner died of organ failure. He was 74.

For more on the five things to know, go to newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris, adventure is changing, from the mountains we climb and the places we travel, to the new year and the new technology. In this 12-part video series, CNN Digital Studios helps up experience the world in thrilling new ways.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS GRESHAM, CO-FOUNDER CAPE (ph) PRODUCTIONS: There's just something amazingly beautiful and eloquent about a camera in the sky. The drone just frees you up to do so much more.

I think we're at a little bit of a crossroads right now when it comes to how people document adventure. We give people the awesome end product you can get with a drone, but without all the hassle of dealing with a drone.

Ours are pre-loaded with location data. My co-founder likes to compare them to Google self-driving cars. They know what safe paths they can take to stay away from obstacles like trees, power lines, chairlifts. And the way that we're delivering that product at ski resorts is really a hint at what the potential of that future product can look like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:36] CUOMO: Donald Trump says Fox News apologized to him for a statement they released mocking him for skipping their debate. Fox News says that's not the case. He said to them, give me $5 million for veterans and I'll show up. He says that's not true.

CAMEROTA: We should role play this.

CUOMO: Let's discuss. CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Bob Beckel.

So, we do need to discuss that, because metaphorically it is about the state of play within the GOP. That's what Fox News represents. This isn't about how Trump feels about all media. I don't even think it's about how he feels about Megyn Kelly, but do you see it that way and how is this playing out?

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well look, I mean, I think Trump's calculation probably was that nobody really does want a debate when you have a lead like that. I think it's a mistake, frankly, but...

CAMEROTA: You think it's a mistake, what, for him to skip?

BECKEL: Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I'll tell you why. I mean, this guy's got -- he does have a lead of five or six points but that's not solid. He doesn't have all that solid vote. So, there's the people who are still on the edge about that and then there's still - there's still about 15 percent uncommitted if you add together the loose voters for the other candidates. But I give Trump credit for one thing, when he pulled up Huckabee and Santorum, now that was a brilliant move on his part, but...

CAMEROTA: They went to his event.

BECKEL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Well, I have some breaking news for you, Bob. These numbers are hot off the press as we've just gotten the early overnight ratings...

BECKEL: Right.

CAMEROTA: ... for last night. The Fox debate got 11to 13 -- somewhere between 11 million to 13 million viewers. That sounds like a lot, that was the second lowest debate of this election season. So, when Donald Trump said without me, they will not have the 25 million or the 24 million or 23 million that they've seen in the past, it's true. BECKEL: Yes, well, I mean - he lost them a lot of audience, but the

question, how did we do last night?

CUOMO: Good.

CAMEROTA: Oh, CNN did well. CNN did well with covering all of everything that was going on. I mean, doubled -- double what it normally views.

CUOMO: Probably more than that and we did cover portions of the Trump event last night. So, look, the question is...

BECKEL: Covered a lot of the Trump event.

CUOMO: ... does he - does he draw an audience? Absolutely, everybody knows that.

BECKEL: Yes, sure. But the - and - but look at the - you know, just so that I don't get into the weeds here, but the demographic, 25 to 54-year-old people, we did very well on that. Trump is depending on younger voters, as is Sanders, to turn out. You know, the last time there were 125,000 Republican voters who turned out. There need to be about 150, 155 and Trump could win.

CAMEROTA: In Iowa.

BECKEL: In Iowa, yes. And then - and the Democratic side, when Obama ran, it was 260,000 people. And Sanders is going to need to do that, because that was a combination of a lot of young people.

CUOMO: Even then, when Obama - in Obama's race, when President Obama, then Senator Obama's race, usually you get about 9 percent, 10 percent of that young vote out. He got 19, so it's not like he got, like 50.

BECKEL: Exactly right, exactly.

[08:50:07] CUOMO: But just that move made a big difference.

BECKEL: Exactly right. And you know, look at the crowd that Trump had there. You know, it was - it was all young, it was - and those are usually the people who are there for him. And so, the question is, does he have an organization to put it together or, the bigger question is, will they go anyway?

Now, I mean, are they so committed to Donald Trump that it doesn't matter if they get a call or a car come to pick them up, they'll go to a caucus, and that is unprecedented. I mean, I've done too many campaigns out there to know that it's just somebody that's going to walk in and make your day. But, you know, this guy has defied everything else we know, so.

CAMEROTA: You, of course, know Roger Ailes well.

BECKEL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: The head of Fox. What do you make of this feud between Fox News and Donald Trump?

BECKEL: I don't - I don't -- I think Fox News is exactly right in trying to get him to come back. They did say that they thought that one statement was a little bit tongue and cheek. But if Donald Trump can't handle that, a little comment like that, then how's he going to...

CAMEROTA: The statement basically where they said how's he going to deal with Putin and the Ayatollah...

BECKEL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... if he can't handle Megyn Kelly.

BECKEL: Yes, I mean, someone - I mean, compared to what some of the things he said about other people, called them ugly, call them - you know, and he gets away with it. So if he can't handle that, well, I mean, I don't - I don't fault Fox here at all. It was Trump, I think, who was looking for an opportunity.

CAMEROTA: But who does it hurt? This feud that they have, Donald Trump seems to be winning this. I mean, he says, look, I even stand up to Fox.

BECKEL: Yes, he's winning it through today, but the other calculation is if -- if Trump gets the Republican nomination, most of Fox's audience is going to vote for him, right? So he needs to find other voters, right? And Fox is - let's keep in mind, when nobody else was taking Trump all that seriously, Fox was giving him a lot of coverage last summer. So, Trump has nothing to complain about Fox.

CUOMO: Well, ostensibly the candidate that Fox News would like, that part of the GOP would like, is going to come down to Marco Rubio. How do you - you know, that's what the speculation is. I would argue, you look at that stage last night, you've got Governor Bush, you've got Governor Kasich, they look strong as well, but what did you see play out on the stage?

BECKEL: I think both of them did very well. The problem I've got with Rubio is, look at the polls in Florida right now. He gets crushed by Donald Trump in Florida. Now, if he and Bush both make it to Florida, one or the other of them is going to beat the other one and then they'll be gone.

But I'm trying to figure where Rubio breaks out. It isn't going to be New Hampshire, probably maybe get the second place. South Carolina? Probably not unless he could pull in a, you know, disproportionate number of minority voters who usually don't vote in the Republican primary down there. And then there's Florida and Nevada. And I'm trying to figure out, where do you win? You've got to win somewhere, and, you know...

CUOMO: Can't win if you don't win.

BECKEL: If you don't win, you can't win, you can't win.

CAMEROTA: You can quote him on that, Bob.

BECKEL: Yes, that's right.

CAMEROTA: All right, Bob...

BECKEL: That's one of those memorable ones I want to put in my back pocket.

CAMEROTA: You can say it in your next book. Bob, great to have you, great to see you.

BECKEL: Nice to see you, too.

CAMEROTA: All right, up next, a new series celebrating our men and women in uniform, officers who go beyond the call of duty, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:43] CUOMO: Now, in the last year we've seen a lot of negative headlines about police, but the random acts of kindness and bravery among the more than 900,000 sworn officers in the United States often go unnoticed. That's why we try to feature them on the Good Stuff, and beginning today, CNN is going to feature stories of heroism by law enforcement in a new series called BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY.

CAMEROTA: Okay. So today we honor New York Police Detective Joseph Lemm who was one of six U.S. troops killed in a suicide bombing in Afghanistan in December. Jason Carroll has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE LEMM, WIFE OF JOSEPH LEMM: He was just everything to our family. Joe was my rock.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Those who were closest to Joseph Lemm, his wife Christine, and his partner, John McCrossan, want to remember not just for what he did for his country, but for who he was as a person.

LEMM: The most gentle, caring, giving, giving, giving person in the world.

JOHN MCCROSSAN, JOSEPH LEMM'S PARTNER: The term giving your shirt off your back, he would do it, and he has done it.

CARROLL: Last December, Lemm was killed along with five other U.S. troops during a suicide bombing in Afghanistan. Lemm was serving in the Air National Guard. Back in New York he distinguished himself as a 15-year veteran with the NYPD. His bravery and size earned him the nickname Superman.

MCCROSSAN: I feel that the word hero is used so loosely nowadays. Joe was more than a hero. He was a superhero. That's why he got the name Superman. CARROLL: Lemm leaves behind his 17-year-old daughter, Brooke, and 4-

year-old son, Ryan. During Lemm's funeral at St. Patrick's Cathedral, a massive military and police presence stood shoulder-to-shoulder for blocks, but perhaps the most poignant moment, Lemm's son saluting him.

CARROLL (on camera): Is your son more like you or is he more like his dad?

LEMM: He's a clone of his father. I look at my son and I'm looking at Joe every day.

CARROLL: Is that helpful to be able to look in your son's eyes and see him?

LEMM: Yes, and no. Yes, because -- it's painful because I'm looking at Joe but I know Joe's not physically here. No, because I know that Ryan is carrying on Joe's legacy.

CARROLL: As looking through some of those things there, some of the headlines, his pictures, any particular items that speak to you?

MCCROSSAN: Him in his military uniform over there serving. A lot of people won't do that. He did it. Not once, twice, three times.

CARROLL (voice-over): Then there's the memory of the time Lemm flew back from Afghanistan to surprise his daughter.

BROOKE LEMM, DAUGHTER OF JOSEPH LEMM: Looking out so far...

CARROLL: Now she will sing in his honor during a benefit. The children are now Christine's greatest concern.

LEMM: Just seems so unfair that the world is just moving forward, and I just want him to be remembered and honored.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: I mean, look, the sacrifice that our police officers and soldiers give every day, you know, cannot be overstated. He had the dual role and sacrifice and police are doing god's work every day, and we do try to feature that on the Good Stuff and I'm glad that we do.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And also a good reminder that it's never just the first responder. There's a family behind them, that little boy, his sister, his wife, all his friends, they've lost somebody and they serve as well, that family, because every time the loved one goes...

CAMEROTA: Oh, absolutely.

CUOMO: ... out to do the job, they're thinking, will the come home?