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Clinton, Sanders Spar Over 'Progressive' Label; Trump Accuses Cruz of Stealing Iowa Caucuses. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 04, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can't tell us -- say you're a moderate on one day and be a progressive on the other day.

[05:58:00] HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Sanders has set himself up to be the gatekeeper on who's a progressive.

SANDERS: We have got to crush ISIS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you raise my taxes, how does that help me?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Did you have to be paid $675,000?

CLINTON: Well, I don't know. That's what they offered. So...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you cultivate the ego, the ego that we all know you must have?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, that voter fraud. You know, these politicians are brutal.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yet another Trumper tantrum.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: You are suspending -- suspending your...

RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are suspending our campaign as of this moment. We decided to support Marco Rubio.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The black gold that funded the ISIS war machine. Just behind the refinery, a row of tanks turned into an underground prison.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, February 4, 6 a.m. in the east. And indeed, the election has entered a new phase.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders sparring directly over progressive credentials. That was the theme at last night's CNN presidential town hall. Sanders forcing Clinton to be on the defensive over her war record and ties to Wall Street. Which of the Democratic rivals fared best with New Hampshire voters just five days before the primary?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: On the Republican side, the battle between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz getting very personal. Trump accusing Cruz of voter fraud and stealing his Iowa caucus win. Trump now demanding a do-over. This as two GOP candidates drop out.

So let's begin our coverage with CNN's senior political correspondent, Brianna Keilar. She's live in Manchester, New Hampshire, with highlights of the town hall.

Good morning, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Alisyn.

This was a battle for, really, the label of being a progressive last night in the first time, these two candidates appeared jointly since Hillary Clinton eked out a win in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDERS: Of course, we're among the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We are taking on the most powerful political organization in the country, and that's, you know, the Clinton organization.

KEILAR (voice-over): Only five days away from the New Hampshire primary, Senator Bernie Sanders taking off the gloves during last night's Democratic town hall, jabbing Secretary Clinton over which candidate

can claim to be progressive.

SANDERS: You can't go and say you're a moderate on one day and be a progressive on the other day. Some of my best friends are moderates. I love moderates. But you can't be a moderate and a progressive. They are different.

KEILAR: Clinton pushed back at his assertion when she took the stage.

CLINTON: I said that I'm a progressive who likes to get things done, and I was somewhat amused today that Senator Sanders has set himself up to be the gatekeeper on who's a progressive, because under the definition that was flying around on Twitter and statements by the campaign, Barack Obama would not be a progressive, Joe Biden would not be a progressive.

KEILAR: Sanders forcing Clinton to defend her relationship with Wall Street.

SANDERS: I do not know any progressive who has a super PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street. That's just not progressive.

KEILAR: The former senator from New York stumbling a bit when Anderson Cooper asked her about her paid speeches from investment giant Goldman Sachs.

COOPER: But did you have to be paid $675,000?

CLINTON: Well, I don't know. That's what they offered. So -- you know, every secretary of state that I know has done that.

COOPER: But that's once you leave office and not running for an office again. You must have known.

CLINTON: To be honest, I wasn't -- I wasn't committed to running. I didn't -- I didn't know whether I would or not.

COOPER: You didn't think you were going to run for president again?

CLINTON: I didn't.

KEILAR: Clinton tackling another tough subject when an audience member asked her about her vote for the war in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What have you learned since that vote that could give me confidence that you wouldn't make a mistake of that magnitude again?

CLINTON: Oh, I think that's a very fair question. You know, I did make a mistake, and I admitted that I made a mistake.

KEILAR: That mistake, one that Senator Sanders has repeatedly gone after.

SANDERS: The key foreign policy vote of modern American history was the war in Iraq. The progressive community was pretty united in saying, "Don't listen to Bush. Don't go to war." Secretary Clinton voted to go to war.

KEILAR: But Clinton standing firm.

CLINTON: All I can do is to just get up every day and work to do what I believe our country needs: find ways to help people, whether it's on mental health or addiction or autism or student loans, whatever it might be.

And I trust the American people. I trust the people of New Hampshire to see my lifetime of work and service and to sort out all of the static and to know that I will work my heart out for you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And there was a preview of a Sanders vulnerability last night that we haven't heard much of, and that is his time as the chairman of the veterans committee in the Senate. As a part of his time on that committee, 18 inspector general, the government watchdog, reports on the problems at the V.A. were missed, and it was an area that he struggled a little bit with, in explaining, Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: Good point. Stay with us. Let's continue this discussion. Let's bring in CNN national political reporter, Maeve Reston, and the man, CNN "EARLY START" and "AT THIS HOUR" anchor John Berman.

J.B., first chance to see them last night, just two of them and focused much more so on each other, the outcome.

BERMAN: I think one of the things that's apparent in this race is it's much harder to be Hillary Clinton than it is to be Bernie Sanders. And you see that in extended forums like this.

Bernie Sanders, his whole career has operated in a very narrow band of liberal orthodoxy. So he has to answer only for a very little number of things. Hillary Clinton has tried to be more to more people. It elicits more vulnerabilities, and it puts her on the defensive much, much more.

It's hard to get Bernie Sanders on the defensive on anything, which was why, you know, Brianna Keilar was talking about the veterans issue. It was interesting to see that. You don't see it often where he has to defend something he's done, particularly in a Democratic primary.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, one of those things that they were battling for the mantle of was who is the bigger progressive, because apparently moderate is a bad word now. So though Hillary Clinton said back in September that she was a moderate, meaning that she proudly could work across the aisle with people and compromise, now she has to disavow that. Who's winning that battle?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we'll see, but for the moment it seems like Bernie is winning that battle a little bit. In fact, you know, everyone -- all of these people that are galvanizing around his campaign like the fact that they know who he's been all the way through the decades that he's been in office.

[06:05:07] Hillary Clinton, I think, had some really tough moments last night, particularly when he came after her on the Wall Street issues and -- and the speeches. There's just not a good, easy way for her to defend her record as a progressive with those kinds of ties. And that's been a problem for her, you know, throughout her entire career.

But particularly the choices that she made, you know, after she was secretary of state before she ran for president. I think that really put her on the defensive as she tries to fashion herself as a progressive.

CUOMO: Let's put some meat on those bones. Here is some of what Sanders said last night about Clinton and her super PAC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Secretary Clinton said, "Some people call me a" -- I'm a paraphrasing. "Some people call me a moderate, and I proudly say that I am a moderate."

I do not know any progressive who has a super PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street. That's just not progressive. As I mentioned earlier, the key foreign policy vote of modern American history was the war in Iraq. The progressive community was pretty united in saying, "Don't listen to Bush. Don't go to war." Secretary Clinton voted to go to war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So John, when we remember back, do we cover that vote? We weren't here, but we were covering it. Do you think that is a fair assessment, that there was all of this momentum on the left not to go to war?

BERMAN: Look, Barack Obama -- Barack Obama won the Democratic nomination in 2008, and you can attribute a lot of it to the fact that he was against the war.

CUOMO: After. I'm saying in that moment when she voted "yes".

BERMAN: In Democratic Party politics, that is a dividing line. That is a dividing line, and it has been since that moment. Howard Dean in 2004 tried to get the nomination based on that. It was the dividing line at the time. A lot of people, there are enough Democrats who voted against it that you will see it as a dividing line for some time to come.

Hillary Clinton has got to defend it, and she tried to do it as best she could. I mean, there were a lot of Democrats who voted for it, too. John Kerry, the secretary of state now, voted for it.

CAMEROTA: Brianna, I want to talk about another one of Sanders' lines of attacks against Hillary Clinton, and that is that she took money from Wall Street. She got $675,000 from giving a speech at Goldman Sachs. So Donald Trump is only OK for taking money, basically. I mean, you are not allowed to take money if you're a Democrat. I mean, basically, he's saying that that's dirty money, I guess.

KEILAR: Well, I think part of the big issue for -- and I actually zero in on something Maeve said. She said the choices that she made. And that's really the issue for Hillary Clinton, is she very -- this is no surprise that she is operating in this sphere where taking $675,000 for a series of speeches is not cool with the Democratic base. I mean, that was very clear from the get-go, from the time that she started doing so.

Furthermore, I think one of the issues for her was, even in January of last year -- we're talking just a few months before she started her candidacy -- she was accepting money from Canadian banks in order to give speeches. And even to people who supported Hillary Clinton, it was so apparent that this was going to be a problem for her, that she would have to answer for this.

And it really does come down to making a choice. This was a choice that she made and, like so many of her vulnerabilities, you know, this is one that is self-inflicted.

CUOMO: So Maeve, if it comes down to not whether or not being wealthy is the problem, it's how you get your wealth that seems to be being zeroed in here, what kind of legs do you think it has?

RESTON: Well, I think it does have legs, particularly in a state like New Hampshire, where -- where a lot of the Democrats are looking for a progressive like Bernie Sanders.

I mean, you have to think about the fact that Donald Trump talks about his wealth as being aspirational. People want a piece of that. That's why they like him, support him.

With Hillary, at the same time, she's trying to rail against big banks and then has to explain the money that she's collected for speeches. That just seems like a really sticky position to be in, and it feels like Bernie has the upper hand right now.

CAMEROTA: So last night, John, what she said was, "Well, other people have done it."

And, you know, Anderson said, "Did have you to take so much money?"

And she said, "That's what they offered."

BERMAN: Look, the issue, I think, is that she doesn't yet have a good answer to it. And maybe that there is no answer to it; that she made the decision when she made the decision, like Brianna was just saying, and she's got to live with it right now. The part that was surprising was that she didn't maneuver at that moment better, because she does do very well in these settings. And I didn't think that was a very polished...

CUOMO: How do you get around that issue, though? The banks are in the doghouse right now, especially on the left side of the aisle. How can you have any connection to them in a way that benefits you and still say that you're going to be a watchdog?

[06:10:03] BERMAN: What she's trying to do is to be as, you know, hard on them now as she can be rhetorically. That's all she can do, because she can't un-take the money that she took from them to give those speeches. She can't unfriend, you know, Robert Rubin and the people who were part of the Democratic establishment but also worked for the investment banks in the '90s.

CAMEROTA: She could pivot -- she could pivot away to talk about how much money they've given to charity. She could pivot to say what the Foundation has done for -- you know, she could sort of do what Donald Trump does, which is "I use my wealth, you know, as I want and for good."

CUOMO: Doesn't work against Bernie, though. Because Bernie -- Bernie Sanders' appeal is that "All I am is the cause. That's all I am. I do nothing else."

Now, could she do that across the aisle with the Republicans? Very, very effectively. But that's not where she is.

BERMAN: That gets to the entire problem for Hillary Clinton. They're battling over who is the most progressive right now. They're fighting: "I am more progressive." "I am more progressive." When the Republicans are using "progressive" like a four-letter word. So she's being pushed and pushed and pushed into this realm, and she has to fight this out. And she has to be patient. But it is hard, because every day hurts.

CAMEROTA: Brianna, John, Maeve, thank you very much for that chat. Great to have you. We'll talk to you guys again momentarily -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Meanwhile, on the Republican side, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz tearing into one another, their bromance turning into a nasty war of words. Trump demanding a do-over in Iowa, claiming that Cruz stole the election. The Texas senator, meanwhile, dismissing the charge as just another Trumper-tantrum.

CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash, live from Manchester with the GOP race and all of these amazing mash-up words we're getting with this election cycle: Bromance and Trumper-tantrum.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And it's all about -- at least the Trumper-tantrum, character assassinations, and it's now coming from both of them.

But late last night the debate, and really the fight, between the two of them morphed into something that voters do care about, and that is health care.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: This guy Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz goes out -- you talk about liars.

BASH (voice-over): They went at each other late into the night.

CRUZ: I'd call it a Trumper-tantrum.

BASH: Ted Cruz unloading on Donald Trump...

CRUZ: For his entire life, for 60 years, he has been advocating for full-on socialized medicine.

BASH: ... on policy and on personality.

CRUZ: Donald has an interesting habit of, when anyone actually points to his record, of simply stomping his foot and yelling, "Liar."

BASH: Trump shot back, saying exactly that...

TRUMP: What I hate is when somebody lies.

BASH: ... blaming Cruz for Obamacare, the senator who became famous for a government shutdown and his quest to repeal it. TRUMP: Justice Roberts approved Obamacare twice.

BASH: Trump argued that Cruz's early support for Chief Justice John Roberts, who ruled twice in favor of Obamacare, makes Cruz culpable.

TRUMP: His vote got it over the top. Ted Cruz did that. Ted Cruz gave us Obamacare.

BASH: While Trump and Cruz bloody each other up, another Republican battle is raging among candidates appealing to more mainstream GOP voters in New Hampshire.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you vote for me and I am our nominee, I will unite the conservative movement and the Republican Party.

BASH: In a boost to his effort to prove that, Marco Rubio scored an endorsement from Rick Santorum as he exited the presidential race.

SANTORUM: We decided to support Marco Rubio.

BASH: But other Republican candidates, who need a New Hampshire win to survive are going after Rubio.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio was for amnesty and for legalization. That was his position. And then when conservatives told them they didn't like it and decided he wanted to run for president, he turned tail and ran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: So from him and from Jeb Bush and others, we are seeing a stepped-up effort, Michaela, to try to stop Marco Rubio and what his campaign calls Marco-mentum. A lot of undecided voters that we're encountering here in New Hampshire. So at this point, really, anything could happen.

PEREIRA: Yes. It's going to be really fascinating in New Hampshire. All right, Dana, thank you so much.

A quick programming note for you. Donald Trump will be Anderson Cooper's guest tonight on "AC 360."

And next week we're taking the show on the road again for the New Hampshire primary. Chris and Allie will be live next Monday and Tuesday from the Waterworks Cafe in Manchester. If you're there in the area, be sure to stop by, say hello. Bring them coffee, bring them treats.

CAMEROTA: You had a lot of fans there. You had a lot of fans there.

PEREIRA: I have to keep the home fires burning, Alisyn. It's very important.

CAMEROTA: They came up to talk to me. They were like, "We love Michaela."

PEREIRA: You could be my surrogate.

CAMEROTA: I am. I am your surrogate.

Meanwhile, this morning President Obama will speak at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C. He'll be joined by members of Congress and evangelical Christians. It follows Mr. Obama's first visit to a U.S. mosque during his presidency. Speaking to Muslim-Americans at the Islamic Society of Baltimore Wednesday, the president condemning anti-Muslim bigotry and urging Muslims around the globe to help fight the radical ideologies of terror groups like ISIS.

[06:15:02] CUOMO: Bill Cosby's legal team says they will appeal a judge ruling to move forward with his sexual assault case. Cosby is charged with drugging and violating Andrea Constand back in 2004. The district attorney at that time made a deal with Cosby not to prosecute him, but the judge ruled that agreement is not binding. A preliminary hearing is set for March 8.

PEREIRA: A bond hearing this morning for two of -- one of two, rather, Virginia Tech students that are charged in connection with the murder of that 13-year-old, Nicole Lovell. Nineteen-year-old Natalie Keepers is scheduled to make her second court appearance. She's charged with being an accessory to murder and helping dispose of a body. Eighteen-year-old David Eisenhauer is accused of abducting and killing Lovell. Lovell's funeral will be held later today.

CAMEROTA: All right. So did Ted Cruz steal his Iowa win? That's the accusation from Donald Trump. What's next in this battle? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump and Ted Cruz locked in a heated battle over the Iowa results. Trump accusing Cruz of committing voter fraud and suggesting it's the reason that Trump came in second place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:20:09] TRUMP: So they said, "It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. Came in third." Now, the guy that came in second -- but actually, I think I came in first, because if you take a look, OK, you know. Oh, that voter fraud. You know, these politicians are brutal. They're brutal. They are brutal. They are a bunch of dishonest cookies, I want to tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Here to discuss dishonest cookies are CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House political director and Trump supporter Geoffrey Lord; and CNN political commentator and senior contributor for "The Daily Caller," Matt Lewis.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Geoffrey, let me start with you. Do you think that Ted Cruz stole his win in the Iowa caucuses?

GEOFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'll tell you, that mailer is really amazing. When you take a look at that, that is really stunning to think that the Cruz campaign would have engaged in something like that.

CAMEROTA: OK, so you're talking about his mailer that they sent to voters that said, "Voting violation. And basically, it was designed to get their attention and to get people out to the caucuses." What do you think is so outrageous about that?

LORD: Well, I mean, it sounds -- when you see it, it looks like a government document that basically says you're in trouble if you don't -- if you don't do this and go out and, by the way, you have to vote for Ted Cruz.

And of course, the second thing is this dirty trick here with Dr. Carson. I mean, forget Donald Trump. Dr. Carson is furious. I mean, I guess his wife, as I understand the story, witnessed one of these people saying that, well, Dr. Carson was going to drop out of the race and, of course, that simply wasn't true.

CAMEROTA: Let me just fill people in, Geoffrey. Hold on. One second. Let me just fill people in, because the co-chair, the national co-chair, Congressman Steve King, put out a tweet, because when he learned of news that Carson was going to be returning home to Florida for some rest and relaxation, he took that to mean that Carson was dropping out.

So the tweet that he put out was "Skipping New Hampshire and South Carolina is the equivalent of suspending. Too bad this information won't get to all caucus goers." He then put out a tweet a little later. Let me do it one more time. "It looks like Carson is out. Iowans need to know before they vote. Most will go to Cruz, I hope."

Go ahead, Geoffrey.

LORD: One other thing, Rush Limbaugh called this to our attention yesterday. There was a publication -- an online publication called "Polito (ph)" something or other. I forget -- I forget the last part of it. But what they -- they found a tweet from a Rubio supporter that says the Rubio campaign is pushing -- pushing hard the notion that Dr. Carson was getting out. So apparently, Marco Rubio was involved in this, as well, for this campaign.

CAMEROTA: So Matt -- let me bring in Matt here. So Matt, you saw those two tweets -- they were erroneous -- from Congressman King. What do you think? Does this mean that the results are invalid?

LEWIS: It's laughable. This is part of the five stages of Donald Trump's grieving process over losing Iowa. And quite a departure. Remember, we were all stunned initially when Donald Trump comes out and he has this very humble, very gracious sort of concession speech in Iowa. And a few hours later, now he's accusing Ted Cruz of stealing the race.

CAMEROTA: But Matt -- but Matt, I mean, if the caucus goers were hearing this, if the caucus -- if the seed was planted that Ben Carson was -- something was happening with his campaign and he wasn't going to be -- he's truly moving on, then why doesn't that affect the results, Matt?

LEWIS: Well, I don't -- No. 1, I don't think it would have been enough to change the results. It might have -- you know, on the margins, moved some votes. I'm skeptical of even that.

But look, I do think that Ted Cruz and his team are guilty of being very aggressive and pushing the bounds of good taste, because that's just how they are. I mean, they are going to be running an aggressive campaign and sort of pushing the limits.

But if you put this in context in the grand scheme of dirty campaign tricks, and we don't have to go that far to find, for example, horrible things said about John McCain and South Carolina, this is really child's play in the grand scheme of things.

CAMEROTA: So Geoffrey, what is Donald Trump calling for, exactly? I mean, he wants the Iowa caucuses to happen all over again?

LORD: Yes. Apparently. I mean, in truth, I don't think that's going to happen.

But what does happen here is this does cast some doubt on Senator Cruz and, you know, when you do something like this, eventually it rebounds on the doer.

And I like Senator Cruz myself. I think he's terrific. But I think this was a mistake, and I think this is the kind of thing that can hurt him down the road, because we have a ways to go here. And not just Donald Trump and Dr. Carson are upset, but the other candidates are pounding away on him, as well.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Matt...

[06:25:12] LEWIS: See, I actually think this is -- I actually think this is helping Ted Cruz, because Ted Cruz should be irrelevant right now going into New Hampshire. Iowa is Ted Cruz's state. New Hampshire is not. And the fact that he's in this, now, one-on-one fight with Donald Trump, I think elevates him and pushes him into the...

CAMEROTA: He won. I mean, why are you saying he would be irrelevant? He won in Iowa.

CAMEROTA: I think the narrative that, if you're against Ted Cruz, what you want to say is "He was tailor-made for Iowa. He had a great ground game in Iowa. He's an evangelical. He's great for Iowa. But now we're going to turn to Donald Trump and John Kasich and Marco Rubio." But because of this fight, Ted Cruz, you know, is able to parlay

that momentum from Iowa, I think, and get more juice out of it than he might have otherwise.

CAMEROTA: Ted Cruz is sort of upping the rhetorical ante, Geoffrey, and he is saying some inflammatory things. Listen to what he said yesterday in Amherst, New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: We need a commander in chief, not a Twitterer in chief. We need someone with judgment and the temperament to keep this country safe. I don't know anyone who would be comfortable with someone who behaves this way having his finger on the button. I mean, we're liable to wake up one morning, and Donald, if he were president, would have nuked Denmark.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Geoffrey, these two are really going at it verbally. Is that what we are to expect for the rest of this week?

LORD: Yes. You know, this is -- this is what happens in presidential primaries. I mean, I have to say, you know, I keep thinking of the British royal family motto, you know, "Keep Calm and Carry On" for the rest of us. This is what happens. This is what presidential candidates do. This is what they're supposed to do. And by the way, I don't think it's Denmark. I think it was Sweden.

CAMEROTA: All right. There you go, Geoffrey Lord, Matt Lewis. Thank you, gentlemen.

LEWIS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. Hitting the terrorists where it hurts. U.S. airstrikes targeting ISIS oil fields are cutting off the terror group's main source of revenue. Ahead, CNN takes you to one refinery in northern Syria that was just liberated. The horrifying discovery we made there. Next.

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