Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Clinton, Sanders Spar Over 'Progressive' Label; Trump Accuses Cruz of Stealing Iowa Caucuses. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired February 04, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: __ make you think in terms of who you want as your nominee?

[07:00:04] RABBI JONATHAN SPIRA-SAVETT: Well, I think the big moment, as I said, was -- was the thoughtfulness and what I hope sets an example for -- for both of those candidates as they go forward and for the candidates in the Republican primary, too.

And I think the moment was the signal, really, from them and also from the audience that these are the kinds of things we hope they'll open up about. And in an honest way.

I got a chance to speak to Secretary Clinton for a few minutes afterwards, and I encouraged her to -- to make sure that she and the others talk on these themes when they're asked. And I hope that not only voters but the reporters, too, will ask these kinds of questions.

CAMEROTA: That's so great. Rabbi, Denise, thank you so much. It was just great to hear your genuine questions and their off-the-cuff answers. That was a great moment. Thanks so much. Great to talk to both of you.

CUOMO: The town hall changed the state of play in the election last night on the Democratic side. There are a lot of other headlines around the world for you, so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know where I stand. I know who stands with me. I know what I've done.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can't go and say you're a moderate on one day and be a progressive on the other day.

CLINTON: I find it somewhat amusing Senator Sanders has set himself up to be the gatekeeper on who's a progressive.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz gave us Obamacare.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wake up every day and laugh at the latest thing Donald is doing, because he's losing it.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio has -- his PAC has an ad attacking me right now. You don't see me boo-booing. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio is

the master of the drive-by town hall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you deliver the same speech wherever you go?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because it's my message.

PEREIRA: A bond hearing this morning for one of two Virginia Tech students that are charged in connection with the murder of that 13- year-old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why she was killed remains a mystery.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.

What is a progressive? That's the question taking center stage during last night's CNN presidential town hall, Bernie Sanders putting Hillary Clinton on the defensive with her record on foreign policy and her ties to Wall Street. Now just five days ahead of the New Hampshire primary.

CUOMO: So on the other side of the ball, the war of words reaching new lows. Donald Trump demanding the Iowa caucus results be tossed, accusing Cruz of voter fraud, and the GOP field winnows, as well.

Let's discuss. We have big coverage on this. CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar with the highlights of the town hall. Take us through it, my friend.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: This was, Chris, a battle for progressive credentials. The first time these two candidates appeared jointly since Hillary Clinton eked out a win in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDERS: Of course, we're among the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We are taking on the most powerful political organization in the country, and that's, you know, the Clinton organization.

KEILAR (voice-over): Only five days away from the New Hampshire primary, Senator Bernie Sanders taking off the gloves during last night's Democratic town hall, jabbing Secretary Clinton over which candidate

can claim to be progressive.

SANDERS: And you can't go and say you're a moderate on one day and be a progressive on the other day. Some of my best friends are moderates. I love moderates. But you can't be a moderate and a progressive. They are different.

KEILAR: Clinton pushed back at his assertion when she took the stage.

CLINTON: I said that I'm a progressive who likes to get things done. And I was somewhat amused today that Senator Sanders has set himself up to be the gatekeeper on who's a progressive, because under the definition that was flying around on Twitter and statements by the campaign, Barack Obama would not be a progressive, Joe Biden would not be a progressive.

KEILAR: Sanders forcing Clinton to defend her relationship with Wall Street.

SANDERS: I do not know any progressive who has a super PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street. That's just not progressive.

KEILAR: The former senator from New York stumbling a bit when Anderson Cooper asked her about her paid speeches from investment giant Goldman Sachs.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: But did you have to be paid $675,000?

CLINTON: Well, I don't know. That's what they offered. So -- you know, every secretary of state that I know has done that.

COOPER: But that's once you leave office and not running for an office again. You must have known.

CLINTON: To be honest, I wasn't -- I wasn't committed to running. I didn't -- I didn't know whether I would or not.

COOPER: You didn't think you were going to run for president again?

CLINTON: I didn't.

KEILAR: Clinton tackling another tough subject when an audience member asked her about her vote for the war in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What have you learned since that vote that could give me confidence that you wouldn't make a mistake of that magnitude again?

CLINTON: Oh, I think that's a very fair question. You know, I did make a mistake, and I admitted that I made a mistake.

KEILAR: That mistake, one that Senator Sanders has repeatedly gone after.

[07:05:04] SANDERS: The key foreign policy vote of modern American history was the war in Iraq. The progressive community was pretty united in saying, "Don't listen to Bush. Don't go to war." Secretary Clinton voted to go to war.

KEILAR: But Clinton standing firm.

CLINTON: All I can do is to just get up every day and work to do what I believe our country needs: find ways to help people, whether it's on mental health or addiction or autism or student loans, whatever it might be.

And I trust the American people. I trust the people of New Hampshire to see my lifetime of work and service and to sort out all of the static and to know that I will work my heart out for you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And on a personal note, these candidates were asked about spirituality. This is an area where they are very different. Sanders talked about -- well, he has basically said that he's not very practicing when it comes to organized religion, but he says that he's spiritual. And he says that his interpretation of that, the way he feels it, is that it's everyone in this together. And he pivoted back to his economic message.

Hillary Clinton talked a lot about how she's practiced gratitude and also how she has leaned on her faith in really tough political as well as personal times -- guys.

CUOMO: All right, Brianna, stay with us. Let's bring in CNN national reporter Maeve Reston and CNN "EARLY START" and "AT THIS HOUR" anchor -- look at that -- John Berman.

Brianna makes a good point. I think I will steal it. You often learn about the religious tendencies of candidates on the GOP side. Many Democrats will complain that they've co-opted faith. Last night it was on the table, discussed in a different way, to Brianna's point. Let's play what Senator Sanders said about how he views what matters in his faith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: As a human being, the pain that one person feels, if we have children who are hungry in America, if we have elderly people who can't afford their prescription drugs, you know what? That impacts you. That impacts me.

And I worry very much about a society where some people spiritually say, "It doesn't matter to me. I've got it. I don't care about other people."

So my spirituality is that we are all in this together. And that when children go hungry, when veterans sleep out on the street, it impacts me. That's my very strong spiritual feeling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: J.B., the distinction between Sanders speaking to sexuality -- sexuality -- spirituality as opposed to...

CAMEROTA: Freudian slip.

CUOMO: ... his Judaism. Now you see, that's why I've got to church every Sunday. I've got a lot to repent. When he's talking about spirituality and she's talking about

practicing gratitude, a different tone than what you hear on the GOP side.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Look, the one thing you can't be in politics, still to this day, apparently, is nonreligious. Right? I mean, there's nothing that America hates more, if you look at the opinion polls, than atheists. The favorability ratings among atheists or agnostics lower than anything else.

Bernie Sanders, as far as I know, is not a religious guy, but it's interesting to hear him talk about spirituality. Spirituality and religion are different things.

Hillary Clinton, it was interesting to me to hear her talk about her faith. I'm always astounded by these candidates, how much they know about religion. They really, really are, on both sides of the aisle. Hillary Clinton, I think, every bit as much so as some of the Republican candidates who really run on their faith.

CAMEROTA: And the reason, Maeve, that I think John is astounded to hear this is because they don't wear it on their sleeves. You know, this is not something that Hillary Clinton talks about every day on the campaign trail, as you know. It's not something that we've heard from Bernie Sanders before. And that's why these town halls are so fascinating, because voters want to hear that side of them.

Hillary Clinton spoke about, you know, the parable of the prodigal son. You don't normally hear her saying that. So what was your takeaway, Maeve?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Yes. So fascinating. I think those are the kinds of things that voters want to hear from candidates, because they really help them make up their mind about a person's character, you know, the words that they live by.

I'm just reminded that, when I was with Bill Clinton in Iowa, actually, he spoke for a long time about Hillary Clinton's faith on the trail in the closing days of that campaign, talking about how she lives by, you know, a line from Martin Luther King Jr.'s favorite spiritual about working every day for, you know, people that need help and so I think that it sort of rounds out the edges of these candidates.

And so I think that it sort of rounds out the edges of these candidates and really helps people give -- give them a feel for who these people are or who they aspire to be. And in that way, that often is what a -- what a voter's decision comes down to when they go into the booth to make that decision.

CUOMO: All right. One more step down this road, Brianna. Other than my, you know, immoral penchants, one of the reason that my mind went to sexuality when we were talking about faith is because...

CAMEROTA: Yes, why is that? CUOMO: Here's why. You hear about it on the right very often as the

context for social positions. "I am against same-sex marriage, because God says so."

[07:10:08] The left, it seems, needs to have a different dynamic where faith and policy come into play. Do you think that might be one of the reasons we're hearing about general notions of spirituality and gratitude as more ecumenical concepts, as opposed to what is limited on the GOP to their defined faith?

KEILAR: I think that's a -- that's a great observation, because you sort of see them using it as a guiding principle. Right? I mean, when -- and also, I think it's interesting, because you see how, when it comes to faith, it serves sort of this explanation or talking about it serves a different purpose for each candidate.

For Hillary Clinton, who clearly has a problem with people believing that she's honest and trustworthy, it allows her to say, "Look, I think about this every day. I have a moral compass. I am thinking about religion in terms of a guiding principle," and so she's able to use it there.

Bernie Sanders, you know, it is sort of interesting. You mentioned a lot of candidates, you know, they sort of want to be clear that they are religious. He's made it clear that he isn't really religious but that he's spiritual.

And this is a very safe place for him, especially since he attracts so many young people; and we've seen in the polls increasingly that young people are shifting away from organized religion. They identify as spiritual, but they don't necessarily endorse a particular religion. And so this is something where they really would connect with him on.

BERMAN: In this case with Hillary Clinton also. When she was talking about her faith, it was in response to the question from the rabbi, and she did open up. And she talked about the struggles that she has had over the years. She used that word, "personal struggles," which is a coded word, I think, in these elections for "the problems that I had when my husband, Bill Clinton, was in the White House..."

CAMEROTA: Absolutely that's what she's referring to.

BERMAN: "... and the infidelities there." And every time she opens herself up a little bit to the voters, and this has been the case over the last several years, voters seem to like that. So faith is a way, maybe a wedge into there.

CAMEROTA: Of course, Maeve, the other thing that they were battling over was the term "progressive." And they're both trying to claim the mantle of who is the most progressive. Isn't this just the paradox of the primary, where it forces politicians to have to run to the edges of their party, when they might not really truly be along the edge of their party?

So did you think he was convincing when Hillary Clinton was saying about how "I've always been a progressive"? RESTON: Well, I think that the case that she's making in these final

days, and now she's dealing with those attacks from Bernie Sanders, is that she is the progressive who actually is pragmatic enough to get things done.

And we hear this rhetoric from her over and over again, that he is throwing out all these ideas, but she actually has a path and a record that she can show of progressive policies that she's helped to accomplish, either in Congress or elsewhere.

So that will be the decision that voters are making as they look at this.

I did think the most hilarious line last night was Bernie Sanders talking about how many friends he has that are moderates. So it's going to be interesting to think about how they -- they calibrate this message, you know, as you head toward a general election when they really will have to broaden out their appeal. But right now, it's all about just speaking to those liberals and progressives...

CAMEROTA: Right.

RESTON: ... who are going to dominate these contests on Tuesday.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, John, Brianna, thanks so much. Always great to get your insight -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Hi.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: Donald Trump demanding a do-over, something I'm thinking Chris might want, as well. Donald Trump demanding that do-over in Iowa.

CUOMO: Yes.

PEREIRA: I have a lot of them (ph).

He claims Ted Cruz lied to voters in order to steal the election. Cruz says his rival is just throwing another -- I love this word -- Trumper-tantrum. The bromance between the two top Republicans clearly over, I'd say.

CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash live from Manchester on the GOP race for us.

Hi, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Michaela.

Remember right after the Iowa caucuses, Donald Trump gave a speech where he was gracious and low-key? That was so three days ago. Now he is acting much more true to form. The person not acting true to form, though, is Ted Cruz, who is punching right back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: This guy Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz goes out -- you talk about liars.

BASH (voice-over): They went at each other late into the night.

CRUZ: I'd call it a Trumper-tantrum.

BASH: Ted Cruz unloading on Donald Trump...

CRUZ: For his entire life, for 60 years, he has been advocating for full-on socialized medicine.

BASH: ... on policy and on personality.

CRUZ: Donald has an interesting habit of, when anyone actually points to his record, of simply stomping his foot and yelling, "Liar."

BASH: Trump shot back, saying exactly that...

TRUMP: What I hate is when somebody lies.

BASH: ... blaming Cruz for Obamacare, the senator who became famous for a government shutdown and his quest to repeal it.

TRUMP: Justice Roberts approved Obamacare twice.

BASH: Trump argued that Cruz's early support for Chief Justice John Roberts, who ruled twice in favor of Obamacare, makes Cruz culpable.

[07:15:09] TRUMP: His vote got it over the top. Ted Cruz did that. Ted Cruz gave us Obamacare.

BASH: While Trump and Cruz bloody each other up, another Republican battle is raging among candidates appealing to more mainstream GOP voters in New Hampshire.

RUBIO: If you vote for me and I am our nominee, I will unite the conservative movement and the Republican Party.

BASH: In a boost to his effort to prove that, Marco Rubio scored an endorsement from Rick Santorum as he exited the presidential race.

RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We decided to support Marco Rubio.

BASH: But other Republican candidates, who need a New Hampshire win to survive are going after Rubio.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco Rubio was for amnesty and for legalization. That was his position. And then when conservatives told them they didn't like it and decided he wanted to run for president, he turned tail and ran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, voters here in New Hampshire are incredibly sophisticated, Michaela. We've encountered a number of them saying that they are thinking about their vote not just in who they like the most but who they think could actually win. That is one dynamic.

Another is who they think could be a Trump or a Cruz, because they think that they would be bad for the party. And then ultimately, their -- people are telling us they think who would be the best person to beat Hillary Clinton in November. These are the stages that a lot of voters are actually thinking through when they make their decision.

PEREIRA: Yes. Before it was a stage of, "Hmm, this is interesting. Let's see who all of the players are." There, the field is winnowing, and they're making decisions in a very different way now.

BASH: That's right.

PEREIRA: All right, Dana, thank you so much.

A quick programming note for you: Donald Trump will join Anderson Cooper tonight as his guest at -- on "AC 360." Tune in for that.

CAMEROTA: Well, this morning, President Obama will address the annual National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, D.C. He'll be joined by members of Congress and evangelical Christians. This comes on the heels of his first trip as president to a U.S. mosque. He condemned anti-Muslim rhetoric while addressing a crowd at the Islamic Society of Baltimore. He also urged Muslims around the world to fight the extremist principles of groups like ISIS.

CUOMO: A former U.S. Army recruit pleads guilty to trying to set off a car bomb at Fort Riley in Kansas, all in the name of ISIS. Twenty- year-old John Booker, an American citizen, also known as Mohammed Abdullah Hassan, faces a 30-year federal prison sentence. Prosecutors say Booker did not realize the bomb he made was a dud or that two men working with him were actually FBI informants. Prosecutors also say Booker told investigators he wanted to commit an insider attack like the one carried out at Ft. Hood in 2009.

PEREIRA: Federal officials sending 14 specialized officers to Flint, Michigan, for follow-up visits with children who tested positive for high levels of lead. This comes after a house hearing into the water contamination crisis there in Flint. During the hearing, the professor who first detected those lead levels accused state and federal environmental officials of failing to properly treat the city's drinking water. Congressman Elijah Cummings questioned why Michigan Governor Rick Snyder was not called to testify. And dozens of Flint residents went there to Washington. You can see them there, holding up bottles filled with brown, contaminated water.

CUOMO: Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are going at it but on a very different level. Trump is making a very specific accusation, that what Cruz did, despite the word "trusted" behind him when he campaigns, was inherently dirty and should change the outcome in Iowa. Will Trump fight the results? Inside, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:22:39] CUOMO: The fight on the Republican side has moved from the hypothetical to the practical. Trump is now saying that Ted Cruz, forget about whether or not he was born in the right place to be president, that he actually cheated in the Iowa caucuses, accusing Cruz of stealing votes; demanding a new election; even suggesting he was the real winner.

Take a look for yourself. Here's the last tweet of the night for Trump, one of two prongs in his argument that this mailer by the Cruz campaign was way over the line and suggested some type of criminal penalty for people if they didn't vote and vote for Cruz.

All right. Who do we have with us to defend this? We have the president and CEO of Subaru of New England and Donald Trump supporter Ernie Bach Jr.

Ernie, good to have you with us.

ERNIE BACH JR., PRESIDENT/CEO, SUBARU OF NEW ENGLAND: Yes. Good morning. Thank you.

CUOMO: Make the case. Do you believe that Donald Trump has high ground here, saying that Cruz was not just misleading or campaigning in somewhat of an established sneaky way, but that this was over the line; and the Iowa caucuses should be invalidated?

BACH: Mr. Trump is stirring the pot, which he is really, really good at. Throwing his opponent off-kilter, and he'll probably say even more outrageous things.

So is he -- are they going to recount Iowa? No. But he's making it interesting. He's kicking up his heels, and he's going after the competition.

CUOMO: Kicking up his heels, making it interesting. Are those good bases for which you should put your faith in someone As president?

BACH: Well, the thing about Mr. Trump is, you have a list of pros, and you have a list of cons. Is the list of cons big? Yes, it is. But the pros far outweigh the cons.

Every candidate has problems, as does Mr. Trump, as does all of them. But I think if you A/B them, that his pros far outweigh his cons.

CUOMO: A/B them. Why does Trump, to you, rise above a Cruz, a Rubio, a Bush, a Kasich?

BACH: Because he's business-minded, and I don't think we've really had a president that has been this business-minded. We've had pro- business presidents, and we've had anti-business presidents. But I think Mr. Trump will really take the economy and make it better.

[07:25:04] And his negotiation skills -- people don't like his straightforward communication. I personally love his straightforward communication. You always know where he stands. He is transparent. With Mr. Obama, with all due respect, with Mr. Obama, we've been

watching him on TV for seven, eight years. And do you feel like you know the guy? No, not at all. There's a veil there. With Mr. Trump, completely see-through.

CUOMO: You think that you have confidence -- or tell me why you have confidence that you would want Donald Trump deciding whether or not to bomb in another country, or making any of the very heady decisions they have to make.

BACH: Very -- very heady decisions. I would -- we had a first-time senator making those decisions. I think -- I think that he can make the decisions as well as anybody else. And who's -- who's more qualified?

You know, you've got to think of it like this. It's 2 a.m. in the morning, and there's a few, you know, girls at the bar. You have to go home with one of them. So you have to pick who you're with, and I think -- I think Mr. Trump is the best qualified.

CUOMO: Hold on a second. Ernie, your analogy for what makes you the right guy when you get the bad call at 2 a.m. in the morning is what you need to do in the bar when you have women there and you have to decide which one? That's how your head works?

BACH: No, no. You're misunderstanding. You're misunderstanding. I'm saying, if -- you know, if you're single, you understand this. You know, it's the end of the night. You want to go home with somebody. You know, the bar's about to close. You have to pick somebody. You have to pick somebody. You have to stand behind somebody. And I think if you -- if you line up all the candidates with their positives and their negatives, I think Mr. Trump is the man.

CUOMO: So you're saying that he is the least worst decision that you could make if you were in the final moments of having to make one? That's what you're saying?

BACH: Well, I'm not -- I'm not saying that, but I want you to understand -- I want people to understand that you have to pick somebody. You have to. Like, a lot of people are saying, "Hey, I don't like anybody. I'm not voting." You can't do that. You have to vote. You have to pick somebody.

CUOMO: Well, it's certainly important to be involved in the process. It was very heartening that we saw so many more people than the last cycle coming out in Iowa.

BACH: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Was your judgment about Trump changed at all to see what happens when actual voters came out and measured these guys, and Trump fell short? Did it matter to you?

BACH: Well, first of all, I don't think that he lost tremendously. It wasn't that big of a difference in the voting. And without a ground game, I thought he did very well.

He is going to kill it in New Hampshire. I mean, he is going to win New Hampshire. Hands down, he will win.

I was driving the other day, and I was driving with my son to school. And I dropped my son off at school. And I was really low on gas, and I was going through the town to try -- to try and find gas, and there was a cop directing traffic. And I was the first one -- I was the first one at the stop.

And he looked at me, and he said, "Pull over. Pull over."

And I had -- I had just rolled out of bed, like I did right now. And I had no license with me, nothing. And I said, "Oh, what's going to happen?"

He said, "Pull over in that parking lot."

So I pulled over in the parking lot. I rolled down the window, and the cop said, "I love what you're doing with Donald Trump. That's the type of guy we need. And Mr. Trump is the man to" -- and that's the passion around here that we have for Mr. Trump. And he let me go.

CUOMO: So he got you out of a ticket, so that's it. You're in the bag for Trump now, because you got let go by the cop. And now you love Trump.

Ernie Bach, thank you very much...

BACH: No!

CUOMO: ... for being with us. I got it. We all heard your case. Thank you for making it on NEW DAY this morning.

You're not going to hear that anywhere else. I promise you that right now.

PEREIRA: This is such a fascinating day on NEW DAY. My goodness.

All right, 7:28. Sanders and Clinton both trying to make their case to voters in last night's CNN town hall. They each showed off a softer side. How did it go over? We'll take a look at that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)