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Hillary Clinton Versus Bernie Sanders in the Democratic Presidential Debate. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 12, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Name 21 times throughout the night. Will this strategy work?

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Bob Beckel.

Hi, Bob.

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi.

CAMEROTA: So some feel that this is a new-found embrace of President Obama, calculated to happen right before South Carolina and Nevada. Your take?

BECKEL: Gee, they would - somebody would be that - I'm - I'm shocked.

CAMEROTA: I know. It's politically calculating. I know.

BECKEL: As if - and the Flint trip, of course, was not politically motivated. But, I - but, listen, that's what you do. I mean, look, you're about to go into the black belt of American politics and of course you want to embrace Barack Obama. Beyond that, I think the idea that Barack Obama is going to be a huge albatross around the Democratic nominee's neck is just absolutely wrong. History is going to treat him well and I think we're beginning to treat him well. Have you noticed his job approval ratings are about 50/50 now. It was about a 10-point spread before.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that'd - you know, that would be good. George W. Bush was way, way below that.

BECKEL: Oh, yes. Sure. Sure.

BERMAN: It's a much different ball game right now.

BECKEL: Sure.

BERMAN: You know, for Hillary Clinton to do this now, though, you've been in many campaigns where you've made changes, where you've adjusted mid-stream. Can she adjust quickly enough to do what she needs to do?

BECKEL: Yes. Well, yes. I mean her problem or not - I mean I don't know what's going to happen with the FBI and her - and her e-mails. But if you take that out of the equation, Bernie Sanders' road to the nomination is so narrow, it's like balancing on a gymnast bar of two inches, you know, because you - he has to wade himself through to get to the Midwest. And the idea that Bernie Sanders is going to make a big dent in black voters, they don't know him, and they tend to feel more comfortable if they know you. And Bill Clinton, still, you know, whatever else you think about him, he is considered to be the first black vice - the first black president. Remember that?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BECKEL: And so -

BERMAN: Tony Morrison.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BECKEL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, Bob, what you're talking about is the conventional wisdom. The conventional wisdom is that Hillary Clinton has a longer track record with African-American voters and that Bernie Sanders is sort of Johnny come lately, but no conventional wisdom is working in this election cycle. I mean with his grass roots support, with his appeal to young people, do you think that that will still hold true what you're saying?

BECKEL: Yes, I do, because so much of the black vote in the south is - is dictated by the pulpit, you know? And it always has been. And the Clintons have - have wrapped that up a long time ago. To try to get into South Carolina in two weeks and introduce yourself to the black community, I think he'll do better than people think he'll do. The problem is, of course, that young people, particularly among African- Americans, don't vote that much. But, look, you've got to give Sanders a lot of credit. I mean who - who - can you imagine - just think about this. We've got two close to frontrunners, Bernie Sanders, a socialist, and Donald Trump? Now, I mean, this is a strange - I've been in politics 33 years. This is the strangest I've ever seen.

BERMAN: You know, when he talking about strange, we have a strange bump in the road on the way to South Carolina for the Democrats, and that's the state of Nevada.

BECKEL: Yes.

BERMAN: Yo have the Nevada caucuses, which are a weird animal, Bob, in politics.

BECKEL: Yes, they are.

BERMAN: First of all, it's a caucus. It's a relatively new thing. No one really knows how to run there successfully. I was talking to some people on the ground there in Nevada, political (ph) (INAUDIBLE), who say, look, you know, Bernie, maybe he won't be able to win, but he is making in-roads. He is going to be able to compete in Nevada.

BECKEL: He's got - he's got a much better opportunity to - to break into the Hispanic community than he would in the black community, for example. They are a relatively new voting bloc. They're growing in huge numbers. And Bernie is - is - has been pretty good with - with Hispanic voters. But, you know, the fact is, that the Republicans, I can't believe it, but they continue to dish up the Hispanic vote to the Democrats. I mean Hispanic ought to be - George Bush got 44 percent of them because they are military oriented, they're family oriented. All things Republicans talk about. And yet now they call them wetbacks and all the rest of that stuff and drive them away. So - but I think Bernie's got an opportunity there, sure, and he's also got some help with labor. Some of the - the smaller labor unions will help him. But, you know, caucuses are strange things and Clinton did not do a very good job with caucuses in 2008. Now, maybe they've learned their lesson. I don't know.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about white people, as Gwen Ifill said last night.

BECKEL: Let - yes, let's talk about white people.

CAMEROTA: Gwen Ifill said that last night during the debate because there seemed to be so much addressing of the African-American community. So is it important to talk about the white community in South Carolina and Nevada or are they less of a factor?

BECKEL: Well, no. I think that, you know, where is this rage coming from? If you look at it, it's mostly among working class whites and their families. And so I'm a little surprised, frankly, that Hillary Clinton did not adapt herself to that very well. And Bernie had it from the - from the beginning. But, you know, this is -

CAMEROTA: You don't think she's tapping into the anger that people are feeling?

BECKEL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: You don't think she's harnessed all that (ph)?

BECKEL: Look, she's not - she - she is not a soaring rhetoric candidate. She's a good candidate, but, you know, her husband was the one who could do that in the family. And Bernie has got - I mean this young people thing is phenomenal. I was up in New Hampshire and Iowa, both, and he'll continue to have that. And the other thing is, they're turning out. Normally millennials, who really will hold the balance of - in the next three decades of American politics, the millennials, a large generation in history, who are breaking for Bernie big time now, and they're turning out, which surprised me.

[08:35:13] BERMAN: Well, how does she make in-roads then? And - if you're talking about working class whites, which I think is what you were talking about before, which is sort of a distinct thing from young people -

BECKEL: Yes.

BERMAN: How does she make in-roads with working class whites?

BECKEL: It's a tough one. I mean I - I - you can you do it rhetorically. You can stand there and emphasize with them and understand them very well. And that's something that I'm not sure she's - she's quite suited for.

Look, this is somebody - people talk about her being hard edged and they don't trust her. She's been on the defensive for 30 years. Ever since she got into public life, she's been under attack, under attack, under attack. So she gets to the point where she gets very defensive. And she's not somebody that can - can stand up to them. There was one moment when she was talking about some woman last night at the debate, which was quite moving to me. But the other thing about Hillary is, she's a much better come-from-behind candidate. I - being a frontrunner wire to wire is very tough to do.

BERMAN: Well, 22 points in New Hampshire.

BECKEL: Yes.

BERMAN: She can now come from behind.

BECKEL: Yes, but it's, you know, New Hampshire, for those of us who have been through there, and I never want to go through it again. Nice place, but, you know, at some point we're going to have to ask ourselves whether Iowa and New Hampshire are representative of getting this whole things kicked off.

BERMAN: They're going to revoke your passport. You're not going to be allowed back. Bob Beckel.

BECKEL: Yes, that's right. That's fine.

BERMAN: Thanks so much. Great to have you here.

BECKEL: OK, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Good seeing you, Bob.

BERMAN: All right, much more on just how the crucial minority vote is to Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and why it matters in the Nevada caucus. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:31] CAMEROTA: Time now for the five things to know for your NEW DAY.

Number one, deeper divisions emerging between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in last night's debate. Insults flying both ways on issues including money, in politics and the president's job performance.

On the Republican side, frontrunner Donald Trump getting hit on all sides ahead of South Carolina's primary and tomorrow's debate. Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio all taking shots, while John Kasich tries to keep his positive path going.

The U.S., Russia and other world powers reaching a peace deal for Syria. It calling for a cessation of hostilities one week from today while providing immediate humanitarian aid to thousands of Syrian refugees.

Pope Francis in Cuba today holding an historic meeting with the head of the Russian orthodox church. Afterward he makes his first trip to Mexico for a week-long tour of the country.

The final four occupiers of that Oregon wildlife refuge facing felony charges in court today. Investigators are hunting down more suspects and checking the preserve for explosives following the six-week long protest.

For more on the five things to know, go to newdaycnn.com for the latest.

John.

BERMAN: All right, thank, Alisyn.

Adventure and how we experience it is changing. In this 12 part series, CNN Digital Studios reveals ingenious designs and innovations to help us see the world in thrilling new ways. Today we show you drones that follow skiers and capture their every move while they race downhill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's just something amazingly beautiful and eloquent about a camera in the sky. The drone just frees you up to do so much more.

I think we're a little bit of a crossroads right now when it comes to how people document adventure. It gives people the awesome end product that you can get with a drone but without all the hassle of dealing with a drone. Ours are pre-loaded with location data. My co-founder likes to compare them to Google self-driving cars. They know what safe paths they can take to stay away from obstacles like trees, powerlines, chairlifts. And the way that we're delivering that product at ski resorts is really a hint at what the potential of that future product can look like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Very cool. All right, no drones onstage last night, just real- life human competition. Hillary Clinton using last night's debate as a chance to reach African-American voters. Bernie Sanders trying, too. So what will this mean going forward? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:47:49] BERMAN: Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, they went toe to toe, head to head during last night's debate, tackling several issue including race for a lot of the debate, discussing race.

Joining us now to discuss is Charles Blow, he's a CNN political commentator and "The New York Times" op-ed columnist who wrote an interesting piece recently calling "Stop Bernie-Splaining to Black Voters." And Charles, let me just ask you, "Stop Bernie-Splaining to Black Voters," explain to us what that means? Blow-splain us that.

CHARLES BLOW, OP-ED COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Exactly right. Look, I think Bernie's a great advocate for himself, he - he -- but I think that some of the people who support him have a really hard time understanding why other people don't, and that can quickly devolve into condensation in some cases. And I think that that hurts -- Bernie the candidate more than if you were not to do that and to respect the fact that people come to their political knowledge collectively with histories, and sensibilities, and cultural sensibilities that are simply different than yours.

And it's not about that he's a bad candidate, that they may not support him, but it's just that there's a different history and they may - maybe, you know, Bernie very idealistic. A lot of black people have kind of adopted a kind of functional pragmatism, having been disappointed by both parties for a very long time, that it is a very pragmatic sensibility that brings - that they bring into the voting booth and that may not necessarily always align with Bernie's idealism.

CAMEROTA: So, you think that Bernie Sanders supporters are talking down...

BLOW: Not all.

CAMEROTA: ... to black voters?

BLOW: Right, not all but...

CAMEROTA: Some?

BLOW: But there is - there - there's some.

CAMEROTA: Yes, can you give us an example? I mean, what does that sound like?

BLOW: Well -- for me it sounds like, you know, I get a lot of this in kind of social media. For me it sounds like, well, once black voters are more educated about who he is, and about what he's done and about what he's -- and I'm - I'm thinking, this idea that you feel like you have to educate them, that they are not necessarily politically savvy enough, that there is not enough kind of institutional knowledge in the black community to be able to understand when something sounds too good to be true, that is a condescension unto itself and you have to stop that.

BERMAN: Is there a similar condescension, though, in Clinton world? I mean, you hear plenty of criticism, you hear plenty of people saying, you know, the Clinton team is taking black voters for granted just because they, you know, Toni Morrison once said Bill Clinton was the first black president. The say that, you know, they should be with Hillary Clinton now.

BLOW: Well, see I think - I think it is a problem to - to set it up as an either/or because I don't think that most voters in general look at it that way and certainly not most black voters look at it that way. There's a lot about the Clinton history that is incredibly troublesome for black people.

It is not that black voters love Hillary and loathe Bernie, it is not that black and white. It is more an issue of, like, which of these people is -- is offering something that I think is more realistic and will not hurt me, but will, in fact, help my situation or help me to maintain what I now have? And I think it is a very practical decision that people bring in general, I'm not -- trying not to generalize too much, but I mean, kind of the question, but - but in general bring into that voting booth.

[08:50:09] CAMEROTA: Do you think that Hillary Clinton's embrace of Barack Obama as we've heard her do more so in the past week, is too late? Is it -- what's the timing, to you?

BLOW: I don't necessarily think it's too late. I mean, I do believe that the Clintons have built a tremendous number of relationships in the black community over a long period of time. That does not negate all the negatives that the Clintons bring to the black community, and that has to be always stated, including that horrific crime bill that Bill Clinton signed.

But - but people are weighing that, and there's a familiarity with the Clintons that does not exist with Bernie Sanders. You know, he's been in the northeast his entire career. He's been in D.C., but you know, he's from Vermont. Those relationships simply do not exist. They lived in Arkansas. There are a lot of southern relationships that have been built over a very long time, and the south is still where most black people live.

BERMAN: Meryl Streep, changing subjects here, Charles, because you've also talked a lot about the Oscars and, you know, the whiteout at the Oscars. Meryl streep recently made a comment. Where was she?

CAMEROTA: She was at the Berlin Film Festival, and it was just yesterday, and I can read it to you. She says, "I've played a lot of different people from a lot of different cultures. There is a core of humanity that travels right through every culture and after all, we're all from Africa originally. Berliners, we're all Africans, really."

BLOW: Right, so now she's responding to a dust (ph) up over those t- shirts that they wore.

CAMEROTA: What did they say?

BLOW: It was something about, like, -- I forget what the -- it was kind of racially insensitive. I forget what the actual thing was on this t-shirt, but this is kind of a convenient excuse. She was responding to that with a dust (ph) up again about that - that t-shirt at this festival, and she was trying to deflect again. Now, it is true that originally we are all African, but we can't - we are not simply going to skip over that whole white supremity as a global problem part of human history. So, Meryl, I love you to death but we're not going to skip over that piece just because you're in hot water about those t-shirts.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, isn't she just sort of saying we're all in this together?

BLOW: No, that's not what she's say. She - they - she's - she's trying to get over the fact that they were wearing those t-shirts and make it -- that sound okay. No, there are sensibilities and they're built on real things and they're built on a real history. And I'm sorry, there's a problem there.

BERMAN: Charles Blow, always great to have you here with us this morning. What is your take, everybody? Tweet us @newday or post your comment on facebook.com/newday.

CAMEROTA: Well, two months after the San Bernardino attacks we're hearing about more of the dramatic shoot-out that ended it all. How one officer's brace actions saved the lives of his fellow citizens. We'll play that for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:56:43] CAMEROTA: In today's installment of Beyond the Call of Duty, we profile a police officer in San Bernardino, California, who led that all-out pursuit to track down those two terrorists who attacked that community center. A police sergeant who followed the terrorists, he had never fired his weapon before in the line of duty. CNN's Kyung Lah spoke with that officer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see officers with long guns here.

SGT. ANDY CAPPS, REDLANDS POLICE DEPARTMENT: I saw the muzzle flashes and I thought, they're - you know, they're shooting at me.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four hours after the terror attack in San Bernardino, Redland's police Sergeant Andy Capps was the lead patrol car in the shoot-out with the attackers. Sergeant Capps had spent most of his day chasing down false leads, until an undercover officer waved in Capps' marked car to pursue the black SUV.

CAPPS: I was able to get in behind them. I saw them putting on what I believe to be ballistic, or bullet-proof vests. They started shooting. The back window of their vehicle, just shattered.

LAH: Capps' SUV just feet away from ISIS sympathizers Tashfeen Malik and Syed Rizwan Farook,.

CAPPS: I grabbed that rifle, I ran as fast as I could. I just kind of scrambled from the door to the back of the car.

LAH: Sergeant Capps crouched at the corner of his SUV as other officers ran up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got officers running here, back eastbound chasing now on foot. LAH: 24 years a cop, Capps had never shot his weapon on the job

before.

LAH (on camera): No fear?

CAPPS: No fear.

LAH (voice-over): Even as Farook got out of his SUV, firing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a very, very graphic shoot-out here.

CAPPS: During this fight I heard off to my left somebody yell, an officer's down, officer down.

LAH: San Bernardino police officer Nicholas Koahou took a bullet to the leg.

CAPPS: I've seen footage from the helicopters of those officers running up to my vehicle with bullets flying by them, running up to get in and help. Unbelievable.

LAH: The two terrorists who had murdered 14 innocent people in San Bernardino died in the five-minute shoot-out. When it was over, Sergeant Capps realized no cop had died that day.

LAH (on camera): Tell me about the text you got on your phone.

CAPPS: This is hard to talk about. Well, that's when I realized how badly that could have ended for me and for my family. And then you make that leap, well, and for all of these other people and for their families.

LAH: Was the risk worth it, your personal risk?

CAPPS: Without a doubt.

LAH: : Would you do it again?

CAPPS: In a heartbeat, but hopefully I won't have to.

LAH (voice-over): Kyung Lah, CNN, Redlands, California.

(END VIDEOCTAPE)

CAMEROTA: What a hero. I love these stories that we tell every Friday.

BERMAN: You know, but it's also -- you have to struggle with that and live with it also, even when you are a hero. It's something you have to come to terms with and it take a long, long time. And you can see him working through it.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. I mean, yes, you can see how emotional he is. And we should remind everyone, there have been five police officers across the country shot this week. It is a dangerous -- and killed -- dangerous, dangerous job they do for us every day. And so, again, these Friday series are so important.

BERMAN: Thanks to them and thanks to their families as well.

CAMEROTA: And thanks to you, John Berman. Thanks for being here.

BERMAN: It's good to be here.

CAMEROTA: Have a great - you're happy now it's over.

BERMAN: I am, although I have another show at 11:00, don't miss that one.

CAMEROTA: Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello. Have a great weekend.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much. "NEWSROOM" starts now.

Happening now in the "NEWSROOM," Clinton ties herself to the president.