Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Republicans and Democrats Clash over President Obama Nominating Replacement Justice for Antonin Scalia; George W. Bush Campaigns for Jeb Bush in South Carolina; Grammy Winners; Interview with Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 16, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: -- it's nominee as a top Democrat blasts Republicans for putting politics ahead of their constitutional duty.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A contentious debate unfolding as the mudslinging among Republican rivals gets even uglier with everyone fighting for the upper hand. Former president George W. Bush hitting the stump with his brother Jeb for the first time, wasting no time hitting back at Donald Trump.

We begin our coverage with CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns live at the Supreme Court. Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. It's all about the president's pick right now. He's the one who gets to choose. The White House already has a list of possible names for the Supreme Court. It is about winnowing that list down to a few finalists. One of the things that is interesting about all of this, they had anticipated having to replace one of the more liberal justices, but right now they are in a very different situation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: This morning, Senate Minority Leader Harry reed taking aim at the Republican leadership for saying they will block anyone nominated by President Obama to succeed Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. In an op-ed for the "Washington Post" Reid writes "If my Republican colleagues proceed down this reckless path, they should know this act alone will define their time in the majority. Thinking otherwise is fantasy." Reid and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have been trading jabs since the first news of Scalia's death, with members of the Judiciary Committee confirming party lines have been drawn.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D) JUDICIARY COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: The Republicans are talking about to be Republican playbook. This is the playbook we should follow, the constitution of the United States.

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, (R) SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: President Obama's gotten two activist judge appointments to the court, capable, intelligent justices, but share deeply his philosophy. JOHNS: Reid and other Democrats are hoping the White House pick will

be someone Republicans would ordinarily support to point out the opposition is politically motivated because it's an election year.

ERIC SCHULTZ, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: The constitution does not include exemptions for election years or for the president's last term in office. There are no exemptions for why a vacancy can tip the balance of the court.

JOHNS: The White House confirming the nomination process is already underway as the vacancy intensifies the presidential race. Ted Cruz, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, amplifying what he says is at stake with a new ad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life, marriage, religious liberty, the Second Amendment -- we're just one Supreme Court justice away from losing them all.

JOHNS: The 2016 presidential hopefuls are digging their heels in on the issue that is now shaping the race.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Irrespective of what President Obama does, we're not moving forward on a nominee until after the election.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Barack Obama is president of the United States until January 20, 2017 whether the Republicans like it or not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: We may get a window in the president's thinking later today when he talks to reporters in California. He has said he'll nominate someone in due time. Not exactly sure what that means. John back to you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Joe.

For Jeb Bush the letter of the day is "W." In fact, he might hope that is the letter of the whole race at this point. George W. Bush rallying voters in South Carolina to back his younger brother and not the loudest and angriest guy in the room, whoever that might be. CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash joins us now. Good morning, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. And George W. brought a different Jeb with him. First of all, Jeb Bush shed his glasses, which I can tell you a lot of his supporters think contributed to his struggle in projecting strength. But most of all Bush advisors got what they were looking for, the best news coverage Jeb Bush coverage he's gotten in months.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(APPLAUSE)

BASH: George W. Bush drew a large crowd and a deep distinction between his brother and Donald Trump.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Strength is not empty rhetoric. It is not bluster. It is not theatrics. Real strength, strength of purpose, comes from integrity and character. And in my experience the strongest person usually isn't the loudest one in the room.

BASH: The 43rd president never uttered Trump's name, but he didn't have to.

GEORGE W. BUSH: We do not need someone in the Oval Office who mirrors and inflames our anger and frustration.

BASH: He spoke only a few hours after Trump doubled down on criticizing him for 9/11.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I heard for years he kept the country safe after -- what does that mean after? What about during 9/11? I was there.

BASH: The former president recounted what it was like for him that horrific morning and segued to Jeb.

GEORGE W. BUSH: He's got the backbone to make the tough decisions on behalf of the American people.

(APPLAUSE)

BASH: George w Bush energized not just the crowd but his brother, the candidate.

JEB BUSH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought it was a little strange that a front running candidate would attack the president of the United States who did keep us safe while he was building a reality TV show. I can beat Hillary Clinton. I can promise you that.

(APPLAUSE)

[08:05:09] BASH: Meanwhile Trump, the South Carolina frontrunner, is waging all out war not just against Bush but Ted Cruz, closest to Trump in most poles.

TRUMP: Ted Cruz is the most dishonest guy I think I've ever met in politics. I think he's an unstable person. I really do.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today Donald Trump held a press conference where he apparently lost it.

BASH: Cruz is stepping up his attacks on Trump on the stump and in ads.

TRUMP: I am prochoice in every respect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: South Carolina cannot trust Donald Trump.

BASH: Cruz is taking incoming from two opponents calling him a liar. TRUMP: I have never ever met a person that lies more than Ted Cruz.

P.

RUBIO: He's lied about my position on marriage.

CRUZ: Donald Trump and Marco Rubio both have the very same pattern. Whenever anyone points out their record they simply start screaming "liar, liar, liar."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And that kind of name calling is happening nonstop on South Carolina airwaves, negative TV ads from Ted Cruz's campaign, Marco Rubio's, super PACs that support all of them. John and Chris, South Carolina voters have seen ugly politics before, but candidates for president calling each other liars is mudslinging at a whole new level.

BERMAN: Not just one. It is like three of them calling each other liars all at once here, all over the place. All right, Dana, thanks so much.

I want to bring CNN political commentator and Jeb Bush supporter Ana Navarro and CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director Jeffrey Lord who is a Trump supporter. Jeffrey, Donald Trump, more on September 11th, more on his criticism of George W. Bush when he started it, when he accelerated it Saturday night. I think it was a collective gasp in many Republican circles around the country. He keeps on saying it. Let's play a little bit of sound here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I had to say I'm sorry. But we weren't safe. The World Trade Center came down, which was the greatest attack in history on this country. So you had that. You obviously had the war, which was a big mistake. I think few would say the war in Iraq was a positive. You had him on the aircraft carrier saying all sorts of wonderful things, how the war was essentially over. Guess what. Not over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now Jeffrey, there are a lot of people who are just flat out offended by this. A lot of who are Bush supporters were at the event last night for Jeb Bush and George W. Bush. But there is another side to this. Which voters is Donald Trump targeting in South Carolina?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm sure he's targeting everyone who can vote for him. I believe South Carolina is an open primary situation. So he's going to appeal to whoever he's going to appeal to.

John, a couple of things. First of all this is the same charge that was made against Franklin Roosevelt after Pearl Harbor. So there is precedent for this kind of thing. Republicans of the day said exactly the same thing about FDR. So there is nothing really new here. But in terms of President Bush being in South Carolina and all of this

respect for the Bushs, and I certainly do respect them, but I have to tell you back in 2000 when George W. was running against John McCain, that campaign was unbelievable. And they put out the -- there were all sorts of accusations they were putting out stuff saying that John McCain was crazy, that he was a traitor, that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock, that Mrs. McCain was a drug addict. I mean, it was pretty bad. And so to listen to President Bush, with all due respect, there is a history here, and I think what they're trying to do is make Donald Trump John McCain again, and I don't think it's going to stick.

BERMAN: Just to make one point there, Lindsay Graham supported John McCain in 2000, is a big supporter of the Jeb Bush. Clearly Lindsey Graham has gotten over it. Mark Sanford, who was a big supporter of John McCain --

LORD: John McCain has gotten over it.

BERMAN: John McCain has clearly gotten over it too. So I'm not sure that will be an issue. Good points, though.

LORD: All I'm saying is when it comes to tactics the Bushs are famous for doing this kind of thing.

CUOMO: But hold on a second. Let's keep the light on your man for a second.

LORD: Yes.

CUOMO: First of all he said the president lied. Now he's backing off and saying I don't know if he lied but there is no proof of it. But that is a very different thing to do. When you say the president lied about going to war, that's not just as easy as saying, well, maybe he didn't lie. How about a little responsibility for that action? Are you appalled a by that?

LORD: Well, do I think President Bush lied? No I don't. If that is what you want to know.

CUOMO: Do you think you should suggest that?

LORD: Well, you know, that is up to Don. As you say, he's already backed off of this. But the point he's making is that 9/11 happened. We weren't safe on 9/11. We weren't safe at Pearl Harbor. There is nothing extraordinary about saying what is fairly obvious.

CUOMO: No, different point, though. I was talking about the war.

Ana, let's flip the coin. We go from trying to make ground on the negative to trying to make ground on the positive. George W. out there for your man Jeb Bush. What do you think this does to help him? And what do you think it does to create unflattering points of contrast for Jeb?

[08:10:13] ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think he's already -- he's already gotten all the negatives that come with being a Bush with being the son and the brother of a president. I think now he's getting some of the positive. George W. Bush is extremely popular in South Carolina where there is a very large military presence. His popularity rating is somewhere between 86 and 90 percent among Republicans.

And we saw a George W. Bush that gives you nostalgia, funny, self- deprecating, gracious last night, talking genuinely and from the heart about his little "big" brother as he calls it. It was a great press night for Jeb. I saw Jeb come on that stage and really explode. The guy was on fire last night. I've known Jeb my entire adult life. And this is the guy I saw in Florida 20 years ago that I had not seen in this campaign trail for almost a year. I can tell you that last year when Jeb started giving speeches, watching him was cringe worthy for me. Today the guy has hit his stride. He's got his campaigning skills, his candidate skills down. He's better every time at debates. He's better on the stump, and he was just terrific last night -- high energy, solid delivery.

So I think, you know, it was a very good night. And I think that in South Carolina his brother is an asset. And when you have a brother that can do something for you, baby, use him, as we say in the Cuomo family.

BERMAN: Ana, one of the things that was interesting to see, and I agree, Jeb Bush, we were in New Hampshire with him. Jeb Bush has been upping his game on the stump, lately, although in New Hampshire it didn't get him much higher than fourth place. The question what will he do in South Carolina? Other question is W. had a firm defense of the establishment. He basically said if being the president is being the establishment I'm all for it. Is that right in this political environment to say yay establishment?

NAVARRO: You know, it comes to a point John where you can't argue with the fact that you were president, that your father was president, that you come from a family that has served the country for literally decades and decades, if not a century. And so if that makes you establishment, then you know, embrace it. There are plenty of people fighting to be antiestablishment.

I think that both Jeb and George W. yesterday showed what it's like to be presidential. I have to tell you I am extremely pained and bothered by seeing what's happening in South Carolina. It feels like we are at the World Wrestling Federation match. Yes, South Carolina has always been known for dirtiness, for dirty tricks, for tough, tough politics, but never as public, never as outwards.

Yes, there's always been a flyer put in cars. There's always been rumors spread. But it's never been candidates out doing press conferences calling each other and trash talking. It looks like it is one of these boxing matches where the two -- where you have Don King in the middle and two fighters on either side just trash talking the hell out of each other. It is horrific. It is not presidential. It is not a constructive dialogue. It is not a constructive way to elect a president. Who can wage the biggest war and who can wage the worst insults is not the way we should pick the president of the United States of America.

BERMAN: So your guy Jeb Bush this morning says of Donald Trump he fears me, which is something you might hear from a WWE ring.

CUOMO: Yes. Except you might have a mask on and some type of pleather.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Let me ask you this, though, Jeffrey, one other thing. Look, Donald Trump, we'll see what the new numbers show later this afternoon and tomorrow on CNN. But he's got a big lead presumptively, and maybe that's why he's taking a gamble with widening his tent and talking about the war the way he is, ordinarily anathema for a Republican.

Another tactic he's using I don't quite understand the same way, which is you have said on this show many times Ted Cruz's eligibility is a real issue, not because Donald Trump says so but because the Democrats will sue him. Now he says again this morning he's thinking of suing him over it. Why?

(LAUGHTER)

LORD: Well, I think Donald Trump is playing hardball. They all are playing hardball here, every last one of them. The Bushs, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio. The only one who's not really playing hardball is John Kasich. And I think this says something. If John Kasich were on that stage with Hillary Clinton I think he'd be squashed like a bug.

CUOMO: So you think you have to play dirty to win?

LORD: I don't say dirty, but you have to play hardball. Mitt Romney was accused of killing a steal workers wife and literally beating up a gay kid. Nice, pleasant Mormon Mitt Romney. And he didn't fight back. This is what's coming the Republican way no matter who is the nominee. And if these candidates don't demonstrate that they can fight back, they are going to go down.

[08:15:02] They are in trouble.

CUOMO: Not --

NAVARRO: I don't know, look, Jeffrey, I think --

CUOMO: Final point, Ana.

NAVARRO: I think there's got to be a sweet spot somewhere in the middle. You know, to me, John Kasich is like Barney the dinosaur, right? I love you, you love me, we're one big happy family. But you do have to prove that you are assertive. That you can take on Hillary Clinton.

But there is a big gap between showing assertiveness and showing you can take on the Democratic opponent who may be Bernie Sanders and waging a war of insults. It has deteriorated into a yo mama contest on the Republican side and it must, must stop. CUOMO: Don't talk about my mother --

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Not Matilda, not Matilda.

CUOMO: Thank you very much, Ana. Thank you very much, Jeffrey.

And my mother does love you. You know that.

BERMAN: I would never say anything bad to her.

CUOMO: Quick programming note: the Republican presidential candidates are going to do what we need them to do most, which is talk directly to voters and hopefully not the way they are talking to each other. They are going to be taking questions from South Carolina voters and from our man Anderson Cooper. Two nights, Wednesday and Thursday. You see the groups on your screen right now. Both nights will start at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

PEREIRA: All right. Quite an interesting day ahead for Pope Francis. He's going to visit the epicenter of Mexico's violent drug trade today. He'll be in the city of Morelia in the state of Michoacan, meeting with young people, hoping to sway them from joining the drug trafficking industry. The pontiff will celebrate mass near the U.S.- Mexico border tomorrow afternoon.

BERMAN: The Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado haunted by a deadly shooting rampage last year is back open. Patients returned Monday even parts of the building under repair following the shooting. Three people were killed, nine others injured in the attack.

Robert Dear, who declared himself a warrior of babies, is awaiting a mental health evaluation to determine if he is competent to stand trial.

PEREIRA: This year's Grammy's making history. Taylor Swift wins best album honors for a second time. She wasn't the night's biggest winner, though. Kendrick Lamar won five statues, sweeping the rap categories during his performance though. He literally set the house on fire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAYLOR SWIFT, POP SINGER: Welcome to the 2016 Grammy Awards --

PEREIRA (voice-over): And Taylor Swift's year it was. The pop superstar snagging three Grammys, including coveted Album of the Year at the 58th Grammy Awards.

SWIFT: To all the young women out there, someday when you get where you are going, you will look around and you will know that it was you and the people who love you who put you there.

PEREIRA: Rapper and power house Kendrick Lamar sweeping the rap categories. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the Grammy goes to "To Pimp a Butterfly",

Kendrick Lamar.

PEREIRA: Electrifying the audience with an explosive performance.

And "Uptown Funk" by Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars named record of the year.

Ed Sheeran and Meghan Trainor riding high off their first Grammy wins.

MEGHAN TRAINOR, MUSICIAN: My mom and dad for always believing in me. I love you so much. Thank you.

PEREIRA: Adele falling short of vocal perfection when audio issues marred her performance.

The night peppered with earnest tributes. Lady Gaga channeling Ziggy Stardust in honor of the late David Bowie.

But many thought it was Broadway that stole the show.

A live broadcast of the opening number of the hit musical "Hamilton" dazzling audiences and winning best musical theater album.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: We'll discuss more of that with Nischelle Turner and Brian Stelter join us later this hour.

BERMAN: Excellent. I can't wait.

CUOMO: We go from art to just I don't know what you want to call it. But it is the opposite. What's going on in politics right now? Over filling the vacancy left by a giant Antonin Scalia, it is getting ugly.

But here is the good news. We're actually going to have someone on the show who's not only being mentioned as someone who could replace Scalia, but somebody who will have a hand in who becomes the next Supreme Court justice. Senator Orrin Hatch joins us next on the show. We want his perspective. You get it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:23:16] CUOMO: What a debate. Well, may be there won't even be one right now in terms of who gets to replace Justice Antonin Scalia. It's very polarizing, it's very ugly. And you know what? It's actually not that unusual when it comes to this process.

Now, what's going to happen with the president? He's going to put out a nominee. Will there be a hearing? Should be there? Will there be any kind of reformation?

Let's get a reaction from somebody who's not just talking about it. He has lived it. he's Republican member of the Judiciary Committee, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch. By the way, the senator has voted on the nominations of all the

current Supreme Court justices sitting there. He was the chairman of the committee and now, he's named as the possible successor to fill the vacancy left by Justice Scalia.

Senator, always a pleasure to see you sir.

Are you flattered by serious talk that you are someone that Republicans would want if not Democrats? We don't know that yet.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: It is always a pleasure to be with you.

But that's kind of a joke. They're going to put -- I'll be 82 in March. They are not going to put an 82-year-old man on there.

But, of course if they decided to do that, I think I'd have every Democrat praying for demise. And I tell you one thing if they did do that, and it is not going to happen but if they did, I would spend the next 20 years making sure that I did the job.

CUOMO: Well, you take all those supplements. And, you know, you could live 150. Who knows what's going to happen? You look great, you sound great.

HATCH: I -- very, very well and exercise every day. So, you know, that's not even in the cards.

But this is very interesting. You know, how the Democrats are crying and moaning and grinding, it's highly hypocritical, because I remember when George W. Bush became president, they threw every roadblock they could for a year and a half, two years.

[08:25:10] Yes, some got through, but it was very, very difficult, and Democrats led almost every fight against almost every judge.

CUOMO: Right.

HATCH: So for them to talk like this when literally we're in the middle of a voting campaign for president of the United States, and I think it just makes sense to put this off for the next president.

And they may very well win. And if they do, they then have the right to appoint the judge. But sure as heck don't want to have a Republican do it.

CUOMO: Well, it makes sense in terms of political advantage for the GOP. But you also remember I'm sure Mitch McConnell saying during that time there is no such thing as the Thurmond rule. You don't get to not vote in judges just because it is an election year and final year of someone's presidency.

So, that hypocrisy is at play as well. There's every reason to give President Obama his constitutional authority right now. You don't have to like whom he nominates, but shouldn't you go through the process?

HATCH: No. I don't think there is any real reason to do that, you know?

CUOMO: What about the constitution?

HATCH: Let me make a point -- well, the Constitution doesn't require a vote --

CUOMO: Well, but it does say that you should give advice and consent.

HATCH: Well, that's right. It gives the Democrats the absolute right -- the president the absolute right to nominate. But the Senate has the absolute right whether to confirm or not confirm.

Now, look, this president's been treated fairly. Forty percent of the total federal judiciary has been confirmed for this president. He's actually put 40 percent of the federal judiciary up and Republicans have allowed votes on all of those.

Now, what they are saying is, look, we are in a tremendous presidential campaign. There is a lot of bitterness on both sides. Let's diffuse this thing and let's put this off until the next president of the United States.

That may very well be one of the Democrat candidates. And if that's so, then they haven't lost a thing.

But shouldn't the Republicans have this right since they do to not confirm at this particular time and not take this president's nomination?

CUOMO: Do you think that each party should pledge to immediately start the process after the election?

HATCH: Yes. I think -- I think once the election is over and the Congress comes back into play and the Senate comes back into play, then I think it is important for the Senate to do its job.

Right now, there is no need do that job in a -- in a very controversial political year, and as you can see.

When I hear the Democrats complain about judges, look, they are the ones that really screwed up the whole process by knocking out one of the finest legal minds in the history of this country, Robert Bork, and then literally doing despicable things with regard to Clarence Thomas who has turned out to be a marvelous judge on the court.

And I could go down through all kinds of other things where they want it all their way. And this says let's be fair. Let's have both sides have equal opportunity. Whoever is the president after this election, that president will have a chance to do this.

CUOMO: Right --

HATCH: And, by the way, I remember when Senator Schumer back in 2007. Schumer's a friend of mine. I like Chuck, but Chuck said, "We shouldn't confirm anybody", and this is a year and a half before the election. CUOMO: No question he did and that is what in part triggered Mitch

McConnell's statements of saying that was wrong. Although Schumer would tell you especially as a friend that he left a carve out there that he said except in extraordinary circumstances. He said this would qualify as extraordinary circumstances and he says they never stopped a vote on a Supreme Court justice.

And even when you point out Clarence Thomas and Robert Bork, those were process at play. You may not like how it played out but they didn't just vitiate the process and say we're not going to have it.

HATCH: They were brutally dishonest with regard to treating both Bork and Thomas, two excellent people. Thomas has turned out to be a very good justice. Whether you like him or not, like his opinion or not is another matter, but he's a very, very fine. Very fine justice.

CUOMO: But he was confirmed obviously and at least they let the process play out in front of public view. And when you --

HATCH: Well, they should have. There was a lot of time to let that process --

CUOMO: Now, you are saying we shouldn't do that. Now, you're saying let's not even have the process.

HATCH: No, what I'm saying is the president has every right to nominate whoever he wants to. I would sustain that right in every sense.

The Senate has every right to say, look, we are in a political year. We are not going to politicize this. We'll wait and use discretion. And whoever is the next president will do the job.

Now, the Democrats, of course, naturally want this because they want to have a 5-4 majority on the court and the Republicans down want them to get it.

CUOMO: The GOP doesn't want it. That's right. Look, the politics are fair and obvious.

The only thing I would add, Senator, for your observation is, you say there's no reason to do it right now.