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New CNN Poll: Clinton and Sanders in Virtual Tie in Nevada; Apple Fights Back; Trump's Resonating Rhetoric. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 17, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You get a different window into them. Two nights. Wednesday, Carson, Rubio, Cruz. Thursday, Kasich, Bush, Trump. All of it begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern. Our man, Anderson Cooper, will run the show. J.B.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thanks so much, Chris. We have brand new polling out of the state of Nevada. This is a state not polled often. What does it say about the Democratic race? Eyebrow raising, to be sure. What does it say about the Republican side of race? It rhymes with frump. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Breaking this morning, a brand new CNN-ORC poll from Nevada. It shows the Democratic race essentially tied. Just three days to go. Tied, 48 percent to 47 percent. On the Republican side, Donald Trump with a big, big lead. Sound familiar? Paul Begala, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist and senior advisor for a pro- Clinton Super Pac. Margaret Hoover, who is a CNN political commentator, Republican consultant, and a Sirius XM radio host. Paul Begala, Iowa -- too white says the Clinton team. New Hampshire, too white and next to Vermont. Nevada? What's Nevada's problem?

[07:35:16]

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Too tight. It's tighter than Chris Christie's yoga pants, Berman. This is going to be a great, great caucus for the Democrats. The more excitement there is the more Democrats register. In our poll, Hillary has held her support, but Bernie has surged. So, she's not collapsing or fading at all, but he is surging. And now, they're just dead even. I mean, it's going to be very exciting.

BERMAN: Yes, but Nevada was supposed to be different, Paul. We were there at the Las Vegas debate and I had Clinton strategists tell us we've got a great organization in this state. The Latino vote's going to help us. It's nearly 10 percent African-American. This is where it's all going to turn out well for us.

BEGALA: We'll have to see if that works out. They do have -- Hillary beat Barack Obama in the Nevada caucus in 2008. That's not easy to do. It might be the only caucus that she won against then-Senator Obama. By the way, the organizer who won that for her -- Robby Mook. Today, he is Hillary's campaign manager, so she's got a terrific organization. But, Bernie has been able to build one quickly. He's had the support,

the enthusiasm, and now the money to get in there, and now it's a dead heat. And I have to say I love it. Of course, I'm for Hillary. But, more importantly, as an American, as a Democrat, I love this. And here's the weird thing. They're actually talking about issues. They're talking about ideas. They're not insulting each other as our brothers on the Republican side are doing. So I'm happy with this.

BERMAN: I don't believe you love it. But, Margaret Hoover -- I love it all, Paul might love this, which is that Donald Trump picked up an endorsement yesterday. You may not have noticed it, but he picked up an endorsement from the President of the United States. Listen to what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I continue to believe Mr. Trump will not be president. And the reason is because I have a lot of faith in the American people, and I think they recognize that being president is a serious job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, I was being facetious, in case you didn't know. Barack Obama not endorsing Donald Trump. However, I believe they were probably high-fiving each other in Trump campaign headquarters when Barack Obama went after him by name.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, this is the best insult to the American people. All those people who support Donald Trump, they just got slapped around by the President of the United States. You don't think that inflames their passions and gets them even more riled up behind Donald Trump? I think that the president was really sincere, though. I think he doesn't believe that his successor could be someone that respects so little. And, denial is not just a river in Egypt.

I mean, a lot of Republicans have been coming to terms with this, as well. Donald Trump, very likely, could be the nominee on the Republican party. And if he's the nominee he has a very fair shot at the presidency. You know, this is something everybody needs to take seriously, including the President of the United States. I think just riling up the passions of the base isn't helping anybody here.

BERMAN: But, Paul, Barack Obama -- he had no idea this might help Donald Trump by saying mean things about him.

BEGALA: Right, exactly. Let me chat on my inner Marco Rubio. Let's dispel this notion that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. Barack Obama knows exactly what he's doing. As a Democrat, right, I love this. First off, he's telling the truth. Margaret's right. He's saying what he thinks which is that Trump is completely unqualified. Come on.

But he also knows, believe me, that as Margaret says, this will inflame the base, thereby riling up more Trump supporters, thereby making it more likely that the Republicans nominate Trump, which is, I think, a good thing for Democrats. I mean, it's going to be a close race no matter who runs. But I do think Trump is the weakest Republican candidate they could field.

HOOVER: You know, Paul Begala, I just -- I hesitate. I think you're playing with fire a little bit here.

BEGALA: Yes.

HOOVER: I think Republicans have been playing with fire, too. What we know is there is an outside sentiment of working class Americans who are disenfranchised and want an outsider, and Hillary Clinton's certainly not that outsider. You know, Jeb Bush certainly isn't either. But I think if you think, wow, we can definitely beat Donald Trump -- I mean, the same passions that are infusing Trump are also infusing the guy who's taking on Hillary in Nevada right now. Right? The outsider and the guy who's representing the working class that have been left behind for the last, frankly, 50 years in American economic growth.

BERMAN: Yes, be careful what you wish for. Paul, I want to play one more bit of sound.

BEGALA: I just want to say I hate when Margaret is so right. She's exactly right, and nobody should take any elections lightly, especially this one.

BERMAN: The president had something else to say. He weighed in quite a bit on the Democratic race and he said something at the end. I have to say, I stopped in my tracks when I heard it. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Ultimately, I will probably have an opinion on it based on -- been a candidate of hope and change and a president who's got some nicks and cuts and bruises from getting stuff done over the last seven years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I think the president just opened the door to possibly endorsing in the Democratic primary.

BEGALA: No, I don't. Actually, I think you're overanalyzing. Look, he's right. He synthesizes. That's why he such a popular. He has a 90 percent approval rating among Democrats. He synthesizes both the Bernie and the Hillary appeal. He was the candidate of hope and change. He remains the president of hope and change, but he's also a guy, as he said, got some nicks and cuts. Got things done in a practical way, the way Hillary's calling for. So, I think he wants to be -- I don't speak for him, of course, but I'm sure he wants to be a unifying figure. I do not think he's going to endorse in this.

[07:40:32] His aides -- his former aides, Jay Carney, on our air, said that he thinks the president's for Hillary. That's great. I hope that's true, but I don't think he's going to come out publicly and endorse anybody.

BERMAN: I think Hillary Clinton needs that to be true. Paul Begala, Margaret Hoover, thanks so much for being with us. We really appreciate it. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John. Tech giant Apple fighting back forcefully after a judge orders it to help the FBI unlock the phone of a terrorist. What's behind their resistance? We'll examine that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right. Breaking this morning, Apple refusing a judge's order to help the FBI unlock a phone that was used by one of the San Bernardino terrorists. The tech giant taking serious exception to what it says would set a very bad precedent.

Joining us now is senior editor for Re/code, Dawn Chmielewski. Dawn, good to have you with us to sort of crunch through some of this information.

DAWN CHMIELEWSKI, SENIOR EDITOR RE/CODE: Good morning.

PEREIRA: We'll talk about the precedent in a second, but we understand that the ruling requires Apple to provide the FBI with the ability -- the technology -- to bypass this feature that automatically erases the data on the phone if too many attempts are tried to unlock it. Tell us what Apple would have to do to make that happen?

CHMIELEWSKI: So, Apple would have to, it says, create software that basically undoes one of the key security features of its iPhone. So, basically, Apple has protection on its iPhone now that protects the device from being hacked by users who are trying to guess passwords. And so, Apple says this software doesn't exist. Its engineers have been working for years to try to create better and better protections on its devices. So, Apple says its engineers will now have to go about, sort of, undoing the protections that it has already put in place.

[07:45:48] PEREIRA: Well, let's actually read what Apple's, sort of, forceful response has been. This is from Tim Cook. "Some would argue that building a backdoor for just one iPhone is a simple, clean-cut solution. Once created, the technique would be used be over and over again on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks." He says it essentially invites hackers. Does it leave us all more vulnerable?

CHMIELEWSKI: Yes, and this has been the ongoing argument. There's been tension for the last year, ever since Apple and Google announced some more robust protections on these devices. There's been this tension between security and personal privacy, and then the need, law enforcement says, to be able to access communications on these devices to keep us all safe. And so, now we see this debate playing out.

PEREIRA: Well, and it takes on a very different tone when you're talking about terrorism and the fact that these two people killed multiple others -- innocent people. It takes on a different tone that just you and I protecting our private interactions or financial information. It takes on a much more sinister tone.

CHMIELEWSKI: Right, exactly, and Apple acknowledges that, you know. When you and I are talking about, say Jennifer Lawrence's private images finding its way onto the Internet, that's one thing. It's embarrassing, but it's not about -- this issue doesn't pertain to 14 people dead and 22 other people injured. And that's the argument the government is making in this case.

Tim Cook, in his statement last night, said look, we are completely sympathetic here. We had our engineers work with the FBI. We turned over the information that we had in our possession that would be helpful to this investigation. What the government is asking for now is simply a bridge too far.

PEREIRA: But, what's really interesting is that the judge didn't actually rule to have Apple simply unlock the phone. They just asked them to remove one step. That is interesting, isn't it?

CHMIELEWSKI: Well, what it is, you know, the judge had asked for three things in a way that took multiple reads to figure out. The judge is saying, you know, Apple, turn over a software to the FBI or install it yourself that will work on just this one device that would basically be like a software upgrade that would disable this feature that automatically would erase data after 10 failed tries. And what they're saying, furthermore, is to allow the government to input this information electronically, not manually keying in thousands of numbers onto a phone.

PEREIRA: Right.

CHMIELEWSKI: But to do that electronically. Kind of at the speed of a computer. And so those two things don't exist now, so the government is very specific. And, by the way, the courts also said, Apple, you have to do whatever you can to ensure that the data doesn't get lost in this process.

PEREIRA: All right, so two things, then. What kind of precedent does this set and what do you think is going to happen if Apple is digging its heels in and saying, hey, we're sympathetic, but we're not budging?

CHMIELEWSKI: It sounds like Apple is going to continue to challenge this in court. The judge's order gives Apple five days to make its argument that what the government is asking is burdensome. Based on what Tim Cook said last night, it seems that is extremely likely. Meanwhile, we have Congress to consider here. This debate has been going on since the San Bernardino attacks in December. I think it is likely that the Senate intelligence committee might put forth some legislation that would require device makers to create technological backdoors. I think that that's -- the debate will play out both in courts and in Congress.

CHMIELEWSKI: It certainly will. Just the latest in the back and forth between Silicon Valley and law enforcement. Dawn, thank you so much. We appreciate it. I'm sure we'll be talking about this again in the near future. What's your take, meanwhile? You can post your comment on Facebook. Join us on Twitter, of course, with your commentary. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Mic. Donald Trump's rhetoric is a turn-off for some voters, but a rallying cry for many others. What is the Republican party to do as his nomination starts to become more and more of a probability and not just a possibility? An RNC official joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

{07:54:22]

CUOMO: The six Republican presidential candidates are preparing to take the stage once again. A two-night CNN town hall event, making their pitch directly to the people who matter most. Forget the pundits. It's about the voters of South Carolina. How will these men respond to real problems, real concerns, from real people? All right, we've got latest poll numbers for you. We've got Quinnipiac -- just came out with national numbers. Let's talk about all the potential here with Sean Spicer, Republican national committee's chief strategist and communications director. Good morning to you, sir.

SEAN SPICER, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHIEF STRATEGIST AND COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR: Good morning, Chris.

CUOMO: So, we've got a big setup for the town hall tonight. We've got new numbers here that we vetted at CNN specifically, and Quinnipiac, if we want to show them to the audience here -- the national picture. Somewhat familiar at the top. Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Number two, Rubio and Cruz swapping, but it's really within the margin of error there. And then you see people still not getting traction below. If you look at South Carolina and Nevada, very similar pictures up at the top. The prevailing theory is, Sean, that Trump gets the nomination unless it becomes a two-man race. Do you buy into that as the variable?

SPICER: Well, look, I think that you have to look at this. Right now we're in February. We're at the third contest in this process. Less than five percent of the delegates will be selected in the month of February alone. You're going to head to March 1st where you've got 11 states, and 60 percent of the delegates being allocated in the month of March.

So, I think that right now there's a lot of handicapping and punditry going on, but I think we have a few more contests to go before we start seeing how this race really takes shape. I think -- I understand where people are trying to formulate it now, but I think we have to get to at least March 1st, maybe even March 15th before we see where the delegates go. Because at the end of the day you still need 1,237 delegates to be nominated, and right now we're talking a total of 50 that have been allocated.

{07:56:20] CUOMO: A sober point that has the benefit of also being true. Well done for you, Mr. Spicer. So now, the two main problems that you're dealing with here with Donald Trump is that maybe, in recent history at least, we have not had a frontrunner doing as much potential damage to the party overall as Donald Trump arguably is doing, for two main reasons. Oneis what he recently said about President George W. Bush with respect to the war and 911. A reminder for people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had to say I'm sorry, but we weren't safe. The World Trade Center came down, which was the greatest attack in history on this country. So, you had that. You, obviously, had the war, which was a big mistake. I mean, I think few people would say the war in Iraq was a positive. You had him on the aircraft carriers saying all sorts of wonderful things. How the war was essentially over. Guess what? Not over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Republicans do not go there, and if they do, they do not go there this way. How damaging is this to his chances in a general election, or to any Republicans?

SPICER: Well, I think -- look, every one of these candidates has to figure out what strategy is going to get them to the nomination and then we'll work with them to figure out how we defeat the Democrats going into the election. I believe that when our chances are up against Hillary Clinton, who's potentially under investigation by the FBI in terms of a further indictment. They've already confirmed they're investigating her. And Bernie Sanders, who would -- even most Democrats would admit that they're not ready to take this country into a full socialist mode. I think that that's, at least, heartwarming for our party as we go into this election.

We've got two very, very flawed Democrats that we'll face, and I think each one of the six individuals that was on that stage last week and that will take your airways in the next two nights, will present at least a vision that puts America back work. That talks about reforming some of the key programs they need to reform. Talk about putting down the debt that's straddling so much of our economic growth and revibrance here as a country. So, I think that when the contrast made in a general election, our candidates will beat either one of their candidates every day of the week.

CUOMO: So, that would be how you would look at it in terms of the typical strategic setup of the race. But, with Trump there's something a little different. You guys had a deal -- I use that in a very loose sense -- that Trump said the party assures me I'll be treated fairly. Is it fair to the party for Donald Trump to raise strenuously the most -- one of the most dangerous arguments against the party, and to bootstrap it by saying, and by the way, the party is rigging the debates against me so that they stack the audience with people who boo every time I'm up? Is that him honoring a pledge to the party to be the best Republican he can be during this process?

SPICER: Right. Well, let's get back to what this pledge was. It simply said the following. I, candidate X, agree to run as only a Republican, and to B, support the nominee of the party, whether it's me or not. That's it. Plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less. So this idea of what else the pledge said, it's out there. Everyone can look at it on the Internet. There's nothing more. There's no addendums. It's like 100 words long. So, that's it.

That's all that the people were saying, is that we want to -- if we want to run as Republicans, if we want to participate in the Republican debate process, we're going to agree that we're only going to run as a Republican. And further, we're going to agree that whomever that nominee is, we'll support. That's it. So, any further discussions -- this is kind of moot because that's all the pledge said.

Second, with respect to the debate accusations as far as the tickets goes, we issued a memo last night that laid out very clearly who attended those debates, how the tickets were allocated, and the facts are what they are. Number one, at the South Carolina debate we had a total of 10 RNC donors there. Out of 1,600 people, 10 people gave to the RNC. That is what it is. In New Hampshire, the number was seven. In Iowa, the number was 16.

So, the idea that that's, you know -- again, take it for what it's worth. Those are the numbers and the donors that were at the debate. The rest of the tickets are allocated to the candidates. The fact is that when the candidates had asked for more tickets going into the debate, they got more. And guess what? You get more tickets, you get more partisans, you get more excitement. That's how it goes.

CUOMO: Sean Spicer, appreciate the perspective, as always, here on NEW DAY. Good luck to you in the process going forward. All right. And, we want to remind you because it's a big deal. Tonight is the night, and tomorrow night as well. All the Republican candidates for president are having the toughest forum they can have with real voters. Tonight, Carson, Rubio, Cruz. Tomorrow night, Kasich, Bush, Trump -- 8:00 p.m. eastern, only on CNN, only with our man, Anderson Cooper. There's a lot of news. There are new poll numbers. There's new back and forth for Trump and the president. Let's get right to it.