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Sandra Day O'Connor Calls for Supreme Court Nomination; Obama to Visit Cuba Next Month; Ted Cruz Versus Donald Trump; Apple: We Won't Program "Backdoor" for FBI; Gov. Nikki Haley Endorses Rubio; Kanye West Goes on Rant at SNL. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired February 18, 2016 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:06] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor weighing in on the debate of who should pick Antonin Scalia's successor.

Our Chris Frates is live in Washington with the latest on what the former justice had to say.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Michaela. So there's a lot of news out of the White House this morning, but let's start with Sandra Day O'Connors, the retired Supreme Court justice who, remember, was appointed by a Republican president, Ronald Reagan, is breaking with Republicans who want to block any nominee President Obama puts forward and leave the pick to his successor. Here is what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, FORMER U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I don't agree. I think we need somebody there now to do the job and let's get on with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So Justice Breyer, who also spoke publicly yesterday, he made no mention of Scalia's replacement. But either way, O'Connor's words, they're unlikely to sway the Republicans on the campaign trail or Capitol Hill. Both Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, too, Republican Senators running to replace Obama, have said the choice should be made by the next president. That echoed a position Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell staked out soon after news of Scalia's death last week.

And Republicans are already pointing to a new "Wall Street Journal" poll that shows that the public is split on whether the Senate should hold a confirmation vote this year, and all this political jockeying comes even before Scalia's funeral in Washington on Sunday. President Obama and the First Lady are expected to pay their respect to the late justice on Friday, when Scalia will lie in repose at the Supreme Court. And the other big piece of news today, Michaela, the White House is expected to announce that the president will visit Cuba next month. This comes after the administration re-opened diplomatic ties with the island in late 2014, and I can tell you, after spending time on the island this summer, that is something that the Cuban people are going to be excited about. Michaela.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Chris Frates, thank you very much. Appreciate the reporting this morning.

So the Republican race nasty, getting nastier. Ted Cruz calling out Donald Trump during the CNN town hall, essentially telling his bitter rival, "Sue me." Do we think he will? What would happen? What does it matter? Answers ahead.

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CUOMO: Two big head headlines brought into laser focus last night during the town hall. What were they? Ted Cruz saying to Donald Trump, sue me. All of this, the (INAUDIBLE) around letters that Trump is sending, threatening to sue over ads and everything else.

And the big endorsement everybody wanted in South Carolina. The governor, Nikki Haley, she comes out for Marco Rubio.

Let's bring back Ron Brownstein and let's bring in Matt Lewis. Let's bring him into the stew here. Reel up a little bit, there he is. Matt Lewis is a CNN political commentator, senior contributor at "The Daily Caller". Wrote a great book that's out right now called --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: "Too Dumb To Fail."

CUOMO: Thank you very much. So, Matt --

BERMAN: "Too smart to remember the title."

CUOMO: Thank you very much. I was going to ask -- actually ask Matt to say the name of his book, give him a little sell plug.

All right, so, the first theory is Ted Cruz knew he wasn't going to get the endorsement and created a little bit of political theater with the sue me, sue me. Donald Trump sent me a letter, said he was going to sue me. Nothing new there, Matt Lewis. Donald Trump has sent me letters saying he's going to sue me.

But how did it play last night? Here is a little of the Cruz sound.

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SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think anyone is surprised that Donald's threatening to sue people. He's done that most of his adult life. But this letter really was -- look, I've practiced 20 years, and this letter really pressed the bounds of the most frivolous and ridiculous letters I've ever seen. Most of the words in the ad are his own words on national television, and his argument in the letter is running his own words was defamation. It is quite literally the most ridiculous theory I have ever heard, that telling the voters what Donald Trump's actual record is, is deceitful and lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Matt Lewis, is this brilliance on the part of Ted Cruz, shifting focus from the Rubio endorsement?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I don't know, with just a couple days to go before South Carolina, I don't know if you need to manufacture excuses to make news and to try to get attention. So I don't know if this has anything to do with the endorsement, but I do think it was a smart move by Ted Cruz. He seems to be the one guy who can go up against Donald Trump and push back and not end up looking like a wimp when he does it. And I thought that the notion that Ted Cruz would try to depose, personally depose, Donald Trump, get him under oath and start asking him questions, I thought was a pretty funny twist to it.

And look, I mean, Donald Trump is litigious. And this is not a conservative value. This actually is one of many examples of how Donald Trump sort of goes against everything that we think about conservativism, so I think it was a pretty good day for Ted Cruz.

And as you noted, he sort of stays in the game while the other big story is the endorsement.

BERMAN: I don't think I've ever heard in a political campaign one candidate say to another, "I will depose you." And have that be one of the giant threats.

[06:40:03] Donald Trump essentially responds, "Time will tell, Teddy," which I thought was also a brilliant response in and of itself.

Ron, I want to get to you in a second, but I've been beating up Matt for the last few days, calling him the political establishment mostly because he's a good sport about it. Matt, you told me yesterday it was time to hit the panic button on Donald Trump. That was before the Nikki Haley endorsement for Marco Rubio, which was eloquent. Listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GOV. NIKKI HALEY, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: And I wanted somebody that was going to go and show my parents that the best decision they ever made for their children was coming to America. Ladies and gentlemen, if we elect Marco Rubio, every day will be a great day in America.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: So, I could hear the conservative media establishment cheering when this endorsement came out. Are you un-hitting the panic button, Matt Lewis?

LEWIS: No, I think - look, I think that what -- Nikki Haley's endorsement is an example of somebody who is now hitting the panic button. The time to hesitate is through, as Jim Morrison famously said. Look, I think that Nikki Haley, she could have stayed on the sidelines, but the fact that she decided to kind of pick a horse here and endorse Marco Rubio is an example to all of us that it is time to settle on an alternative to Donald Trump. If we go much longer it's going to be too late to do.

The last thing I would just say is, you know, this is an example, I think, of the kind of conservativism that I believe that can win in the 21st century. These are real conservatives, and as Marco Rubio said last night at the town hall, you know, you have a Hispanic being endorsed by an Indian-American Republican female governor of the state of South Carolina who also happens to be endorsed by an African- American Republican senator in that same state.

This is really an amazing story, and I think that Republicans, you know, do you want to go Donald Trump or do you want to go this direction? This is a stark contrast.

CUOMO: This is the come on, baby, light my fire analogy that Matt Lewis is referring to. So, Ron Brownstein, go ahead. You play the kindling here. Do you believe this is --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CUOMO: -- the turn about that Marco Rubio needed to consolidate the race?

BROWNSTEIN: It's no time to wallow in the mire, huh? Look, I don't know. You know, it's a little early to say that it's that, but it is clearly the point that Matt is making. You know, we're past - we're getting to the point where there are no moral victories. If Donald Trump wins South Carolina convincingly, moves into Super Tuesday with a big head of momentum, by the time you see consolidation, it may be too late.

We don't know what Donald Trump's ceiling is. He's polling about the same here as he did in New Hampshire. There may be difficulty for him getting past 35, 40 percent of the vote. It's not clear whether any one candidate can do that on their own, either.

I kind of wonder whether Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz need each other to be viable for a while, certainly - you know, to peel away from Donald Trump on both ends in the - in - in the states that follow. I was in, as I said earlier, in Spartanburg, South Carolina, last night where Ted Cruz was appealing to blue collar evangelicals, which is the key beachhead that Donald Trump is making among that evangelical vote. And if they can't push him out of that, hard to beat him in the south.

BERMAN: Needed the Doors analogy. Jeb Bush may be singing This is the End. But thanks to our Riders on the Storm, Matt Lewis and Ron Brownstein.

CUOMO: Would you be the beautiful friend in that song?

BERMAN: I've said too much. I've said too much. CUOMO: Matt Lewis, Ron Brownstein, good men there. And Donald Trump,

you talk about your panic button analogy, he was there last night with his buddy trying to steal some of the light from these guys and have his own town hall. You know, he's - everybody's on - on their heels right now, that's for sure.

Mich?

PEREIRA: You know, Kanye West has been kind of having a bit of a time lately. Did you hear about this epic rant he went on backstage at "Saturday Night Live" last weekend? It was captured on audio. You're going to hear part of it, coming up next.

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[06:47:52] PEREIRA (voice-over): Rancher Cliven Bundy and four others, including his two sons, have been indicted in connection with the 2014 armed standoff in Nevada. Bundy and supporters faced down federal agents who seized his cattle over unpaid grazing fees. Bundy was arrested last week in Oregon where he flew in to support his sons Ammon and Ryan Bundy who were in jail after a similar recent standoff in Oregon.

CUOMO (voice-over): Michigan's governor and Flint's mayor clashing on how to quickly deal with the city's contaminated water crisis. Flint mayor, Karen Weaver, on your screen right now, says her administration intends to begin replacing the pipes next week. Now, that is dismissing Governor Rick Snyder's plan to let engineers and contractors start within the next month. Weaver also calling on Snyder to pressure state law makers to pass a $25 million extension in funding to speed up the pipe removal.

BERMAN (voice-over): All right, Kanye West's behind the scenes episode at "Saturday Night Live" leaked. "The New York Post" page six posted explicit audio of West seemingly pumping his ego and trashing Taylor Swift.

KANYE WEST, RAPPER: Look at the (CENSORED) they took my (CENSORED) stage off of SNL without asking me. Now I'm bummed. That and Taylor Swift, fake (CENSORED). Are they (CENSORED) crazy? Bro! By 50 percent. Stanley Kubrick, Apostle Paul, Picasso, (CENSORED) Picasso and Escobar. By 50 percent more influential than any other human being. Don't (CENSORED) with me. Don't (CENSORED) with me. Don't (CENSORED) with me. By 50 percent, dead or alive, by 50 percent for the next thousand years."

BERMAN: 50 percent more influence than Stanley Kubrick would put it outside the margin of error. A source close to West slammed the undercover recording, telling "Entertainment Weekly" that West did not yell at SNL staff and that he was venting his frustration in a private moment with his team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO (on camera): Look, the concern when you listen to that audio isn't the expletives, it's what is he talking about?

PEREIRA (on camera): No. Well, he's not making any sense and it makes you wonder about his state of mind, that's for sure.

BERMAN (on camera): You have to treat people right, you know?

PEREIRA: Yes, yes, absolutely do.

All right. Big story we're watching here. The FBI and Apple in this showdown over a judge's order to unlock a terrorists' cell phone. Is a customer's security more important than national security? We will have a bit of a debate ahead.

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PEREIRA: A debate that's being had across the nation, should Apple assist the FBI by unlocking an iPhone belonging to one of the San Bernardino terrorists? It's a battle that's shaping up between government tech titan -- the tech titan Apple over privacy and national security.

We want to ask CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official, Phil Mudd. Gregory Nojeim also joins us. He's legislative counsel for the ACLU and the director of the Center for Democracy and technology. It's going to be very interesting to hear from both of you, given the worlds you both come from about this.

From a technical standpoint, Gregory, what is Apple's argument against it and is it valid?

GREGORY NOJEIM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY: Well, Apple's arguing that if it has to unlock this phone, it's going to be compelled to unlock other phones, and that the technique that it's using could be used on the other devices that it makes.

[08:54:55] I think Apple is making a good point. You have to look at the big picture here, that if the FBI is able to compel Apple to unlock this phone, it will compel Apple to unlock other phones, and other governments in other places like China or Russia are going to make the same kinds of demands on Apple that the FBI is making right now, citing, I might add, a law adapted in 1789.

PEREIRA: I am almost dying to know what that law in 1789 -- what it is and how it could (inaudible) today. But from a law enforcement perspective -- and considering the world we are living in right now, Phil, how does Apple's arguments sit with those that are trying their best to protect our data, those that are trying to protect our nation, in terms of national security?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I don't think it sits too well for a couple of reasons, Michaela. First, if you look at the history of the FBI and the government's access to data, for decades the government has accessed phone data and it didn't violate civil liberties. People don't think we lost our liberties because the FBI was picking up date on organized crime from your telephone in the 1970s starting in maybe -- 15, 20 years ago, the FBI accessed e-mail data, we use that extensively in the FBI and the CIA to hunt terrorists. Now this is just a different kind of data. It's a smartphone.

I think the real issue isn't just privacy, it's branding. Apple cannot sit there -- and not just for U.S. audience -- but for Indians, for Russians, for Chinese and say we are going to rollover and play dead whenever the FBI comes in and asks for your data. So this is about FBI telling customers outside the United States, we'll watch out for you.

PEREIRA: That is really interesting that you say that you think it's about branding. So -- I am curious. We've heard that the White House has responded. Why don't we listen to what Josh Earnest has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They are not asking Apple to redesign its product or to create a new backdoor to one of their products. They are simply asking for something that would have an impact on this one device. Obviously, the Department of Justice and the FBI can count on the full support of the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: So Gregory, that is a question that begs to be asked, because the idea that the FBI is asking for access to this one phone is a matter of national security. This one phone, can you help us access this one phone. Is there a way they can do that or is it really opening Pandora's box?

NOJEIM: It does open Pandora's box. And it's not just about Apple branding. If that was the case, you would have practically every technologist in the country who's looked at the question saying that the risks to security that the -- of the FBI's demands on Apple outweigh the benefits.

Here is what is at stake. What's at stake is the security of all of our phones, not just the security of this particular phone. Apple's going to give the FBI some malware that it will use to get into this phone. That malware could also be used on other phones and the FBI will be asking -- if it succeeds in this case -- it will be asking Apple to develop other malware to exploit other Apple devices.

So the stakes are very high, and to say it's just about branding, I think, really, doesn't capture the full picture here (inaudible). If it was just about branding, you wouldn't have other companies lining up with Apple, which they are, and you wouldn't have all the technological community lining up with Apple, which they are.

PEREIRA: Well Phil, I want to know what this whole thing does for the global fight on terror. Not just how this decision is handled and how it's decided, but -- not just if it is, rather, it's how it is. The fact that we are having this conversation, and it's a struggle that is being watched the world over. Nothing happens in a vacuum. We know that the guys that are inspiring these lone wolf activists -- or terrorists -- are seeing how this is being dealt with in the United States.

MUDD: This conversation is profound. It goes well beyond Apple. First in the counterterrorism world, your job is to draw a picture around a human being. Who his contacts are, where he gets money, how he travels. In the 21st century the fastest way and the most complete way to draw that picture is to get access to somebody's digital life. If you cannot access somebody's digital life, you cannot draw a picture around what the extent of the conspiracy was. So if they cannot acquire this date, I think the ability to conduct counter terrorism investigations in contrast of when we could acquire, in the government, phone or e-mail data, it's going to be very difficult, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Well gentleman, it certainly seems like there's no easy answer here. Thank you for lending your bright minds to this. I am sure we will be talking about it for days to come.

Certainly following a whole lot of news this morning, three of the Republican presidential candidates facing off in a CNN town hall. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we really need are people that need to know how to solve problems, not people who know how to talk.

CRUZ: Truth matters. Just yelling "liar" doesn't make it so.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These things are disturbing and they need to be addressed and I will address them.

CARSON: The political class who thinks that they rule us when, in fact, this country is of, for and by the people.