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Rubio & Cruz Spar With Trump in Raucous CNN Debate; Rubio Accuses Trump of Using Illegal Immigrants to Build His Wall; Fiery Rubio Takes Off Gloves Against Trump; Trump on the GOP Debate: "I Thought It Was Exciting"; Trump: Rubio is a Meltdown Guy...Pouring Sweat; Trump Calls Romney's Tax Attack Attempt to Stay Relevant, Trump Blames Repeated Audits on Being a Strong Christian; Trump Won't Release Taxes While Being Audited. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired February 26, 2016 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:31:15]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, February 26th, 5:30 a.m. in the East. Alisyn in New York, and we are at the main event -- the site of it, anyway. Houston, the final Republican debate before Super Tuesday. What a night. It turned into an old-fashioned, no-holds-barred, street brawl.

Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio just giving the Malachi crunch to Donald Trump in hopes of taking down the billionaire front-runner, hammering him on foreign policy, health care, even his hiring practices. But the story of the night, Alisyn, may have been Trump's ability to take it.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: The Malachi crunch -- Chris, I didn't know that's where you were going. Rubio was in top form mocking Trump's wealth and suggesting that Trump would be "watch salesman" if not for his inheritance. Trump firing back, as Chris said, calling Rubio a choke artist and Cruz a basket case. We have this raucous debate and its impact covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with Sunlen Serfaty with the highs and lows in Houston. Hi, Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Alisyn. Well, it really did turn out to an all-out war of insults and push-downs. A lot of the candidates -- Marco Rubio, really newly- aggressive out there on the stage. Also, this dynamic of Rubio and Cruz really pushing for -- going for broke against Donald Trump, really dominated the debate. Here are the best moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're the only person on this stage that's ever been fined for hiring people to work on your projects illegally.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the only one on this stage's that's hired people. You haven't hired anybody.

RUBIO: If he builds the wall the way he built Trump Towers he'll be using illegal immigrant labor to do it.

TRUMP: I watched him meltdown and I'll tell you it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

RUBIO: Here's a guy that inherited $200 million. If he hadn't inherited $200 million, you know where Donald Trump would be right now?

TRUMP: No, no, no, no. No, no, no.

RUBIO: Selling watches in Manhattan.

TRUMP: I know you're embarrassed, I know you're embarrassed, but keep fighting. Keep swinging men. Swing for the fences.

TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I was leading the fight against the Gang of Eight amnesty bill, where was Donald? He was firing Dennis Rodman on Celebrity Apprentice.

TRUMP: You don't have one Republican senator backing you -- not one. You don't have the endorsement of one Republican senator and you work with these people.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN REPORTER: Sen. Cruz.

TRUMP: You should be ashamed of yourself.

CRUZ: Donald, if you want to be --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And as the dust is still settling, the big question here is how will this change the dynamic of the race going forward? Of course, all of this just four days before Super Tuesday -- Alisyn.

CUOMO: I'll take it right here. So, I'm sitting right next to you. Let's stay here with what we have. Let's bring in our CNN political commentators to talk about this. We've got commentator and senior contributor to The Daily Caller, brother Matt Lewis. We have CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, and CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston. No tie? You too good for a tie?

MARK PRESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I'm just following your --

CUOMO: You wear a tie. Everybody knows that and your lead -- faux pas.

MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY CALLER: Very handsome on you.

CUOMO: All right, so let's look at last night. We knew it had to be a big event, but I know I didn't expect what we saw on stage last night. What do you see as the plus-minus for each of the big three? Kasich and Carson are going to be a separate discussion. PRESTON: All right, so first of all, I think the big moment of the night was the fact that we got a head fake from Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio's people, for 48 hours, were saying he was not going to go after Donald Trump.

First thing he does, he goes right after Donald Trump -- catches Donald Trump off guard. We just saw that in that clip right there. And I think when we're talking about the consolidation of the establishment or at least some way to try to stop Donald Trump, I think Marco Rubio came out on top.

Having said that, I think Donald Trump still did fine. If you support Donald Trump, then you're going to continue to support Donald Trump. And I don't think Ted Cruz had a great night, actually, to be perfectly honest with you, but I think a lot is going to weigh on whether he wins Texas on March 1st.

CUOMO: I mean, look -- there's no question, Maeve, that you have to give Trump credit for having two guys come at him all night and being able to balance attacks.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Totally took it.

[05:36:31] CUOMO: But that said, it was not what was expected. We saw handshakes from Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio behind Donald Trump during breaks. What do you think was going on? Could it have been concerted?

RESTON: Well, I don't know that it was concerted because it seemed like Ted Cruz was going after Rubio, really, for the first half of the debate and then pivoted to figure out -- and then this dynamic --

CUOMO: Ah, you think it was a change of play when he saw what Rubio was doing?

RESTON: Right, and decided to hit Trump from both, you know -- so they'd be hitting him from both sides. But, Rubio did signal that he was going to finally attack Donald Trump the night before at a rally, talking about Donald Trump's position on Israel, on Obamacare. But, we had never seen anything like that. And you know, what he did was so effective that Jeb was never able to -- was to just keep coming at him, coming at him, and not letting up.

CUOMO: Good example of that. The watches -- I don't even know where he got it. That was a great line. I was like, I don't know wrote it for him but that was a great one. Let's play what he said about the watches last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: If he builds the wall the way he built Trump Towers he'll be using illegal immigrant labor to do it.

TRUMP: Such a cute soundbite.

RUBIO: No, it's not a soundbite, it's a fact. I don't understand because your ties and the clothes you make is made in Mexico and in China, so you're going to be starting a trade war against your own ties and your own suits. If he hadn't inherited $20 million, you know where Donald Trump would be right now?

TRUMP: No, no, no, no.

RUBIO: Selling watches in Manhattan.

TRUMP: I have to say he lied this time. He lied, 100 percent -- 100 percent.

RUBIO: You lied about the Polish workers.

TRUMP: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah -- 38 years ago.

RUBIO: You lied to the students of Trump University.

TRUMP: Thirty-eight years ago.

RUBIO: Oh, he lied 38 years ago. All right, I guess there's a statute of limitation on lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RESTON: Donald Trump is a successful businessman -- what Marco Rubio, in that one line, was making an argument of was that he inherited all that money. He doesn't deserve credit for that success, and it was a really effective moment for him.

CUOMO: Now, Matt, for diversity of opinion, you have a different take on the night. It did focus on those three men, but you saw a different apportionment of plus-minus. How so?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR; SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY CALLER: I did. Well, first, let me say I think you're right. Rubio reminded me of Sugar Ray Leonard coming with these flurries of punches against a bigger opponent. And I think that the comment about Donald Trump -- the implicit point is that Donald Trump didn't earn his wealth. I earned my way here. I'm the son of a bartender.

But, you're right. I have a counterintuitive take. My theory is I actually felt that Ted Cruz probably won the debate, and the reason for that is Marco Rubio did what he had to do. I think he showed machismo. He could stand up to Donald Trump and he could fight him, and he did a good job of that and that tells donors that Rubio is tough.

But the problem is, if Rubio's fighting, then Rubio's not being Rubio. It's like going to an Eagle's concert and they refuse to play Hotel California. What Rubio does better than anybody is this visionary stuff -- this eloquent rhetoric, and he didn't get to that at all last night.

CUOMO: But did he establish it as a two-man race? Could that have been his goal, because he's not going to take Trump's supporters from him with what happened last night? And Trump quoted himself very ably -- stayed away from a lot of the personal invective he likes and was talking about how he's just the best guy for the job. It was a little bit unusual for him. So, is two-man race enough, Maeve?

RESTON: Well, I think in the eyes of donors that were looking at Rubio it looked like a two-man race out there, but I do agree. I think that Ted Cruz did fine last night, and for the performance that he needed he probably did what he needed to do.

PRESTON: It's going to be a minority on the stage here. Wow.

CUOMO: You disrupted. They're teaming up. This is just what we saw last night.

LEWIS: The Malachi crunch.

PRESTON: I need a little help here.

CUOMO: Maeve Reston is too young to know Malachi crunch. It was one of the best moves in early wrestling. These brothers used to come from opposite ends of the ring and the guy would act dumbfounded in the middle looking back and forth because he didn't know which one it was, and they crush him from both sides. That's the Malachi crunch.

RESTON: But they didn't --

CUOMO: They tried.

RESTON: They tried.

CUOMO: They tried. But, Maeve makes a good point. Donald Trump was not taken down last night.

PRESTON: No, no. Look, he wasn't taken down and I think that we'll have to see what happens -- the headlines out of today, and see what other people think of it. Listen, as I said, Ted Cruz -- I don't think he had a great night. I don't think he had a terrible night but I do think, to Maeve's point, if you're a donor and you're looking at who you want to start putting money behind, I think the money's going to Rubio.

RESTON: Right.

LEWIS: There's this old counterpoint Kenny Roger's song, "and the best you can hope for is to die in your sleep." In the case of Donald Trump, the best you can hope for is just to fight to a draw. If you can just fight him to a draw, then you win, and that's what they did last night.

CUOMO: On social media he was getting a lot better praise than that, and not just from the typical Trumpets. For him to take on two guys all night is impressive. And that said, I do think that it's worth looking at what John Kasich said last night in terms of who is laying out ideas for America. Maybe it's because he wasn't getting attacked all night, but he had a lot to say.

So, Rubio and Cruz were certainly coming at Donald Trump from jump last night in the big GOP debate. The question is what impact did it have on Trump? How much did he show by merely surviving? We're going to hear from the front-runner right after the event, next.

[05:41:47]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:45:57]

CUOMO: You know, we often tell you that these debates -- these town halls -- that they've become major pivot moments. Last night was the example of how true this can be in at least one respect. The 10th Republican debate was like the previous nine. Donald Trump at the center of every fight even when he wasn't talking.

So, after the debate it's a really important time to get people. They're coming right out of the moment. How do they feel about it? They haven't been coached yet. So we talked to Donald Trump about what he thought had happened on that stage and the issue of his tax returns. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: They're politicians. They want to get elected, but they are doing badly. And I think CNN did a very good job, but I think they had a lot of focus on the three in the middle and maybe that's the way it should have been. I don't know. But I was very happy. I thought it was great. I thought it was exciting and I thought it was great.

CUOMO: What did you think of that dynamic of having to take both of them on?

TRUMP: I thought it was fine.

CUOMO: Did you feel that --

TRUMP: You know, I've dealt with the toughest people in the world over my lifetime, and I've dealt with much tougher. I think that it was fine. I really enjoyed it. I enjoy the debating process.

[05:47:03] CUOMO: During that debate, as it was going on, Marco Rubio started on his Web site selling watches as a pretend gimmick to say that they were watches that would have been yours that you would have been selling, but they're just donations for him. It was a quick response during the actual debate. What do you make of the move?

TRUMP: Well, look, the problem with Marco, he's a choke artist -- he chokes. And he did it in front of Chris Christie. I've never seen anything like that. I was standing right next to him. I look over -- I say, you OK? I mean, it looked like he just came out of a swimming pool. He was soaking wet. And he kept repeating himself, repeating himself.

CUOMO: He tried to use that on you tonight.

TRUMP: No, no -- but I didn't do any repeating. I mean, I just say -- hey, I just say what's needed. I didn't do that. But he really -- we can't have a choke artist. You know, one thing I've learned from sports -- I was actually a very good athlete. When you're a choker, you're always a choker. We can't have that. We can't take any chances in this country.

CUOMO: How long, now that you're starting to get the votes in and you're at the top -- do you think that people should start thinking about leaving this race?

TRUMP: I think so, but it's not for me to say. I would say that a few of them maybe should. And, you know, Marco -- I'm 20 points up on him in Florida, right? And with Cruz, I'm even. It seems in the last polls I'm even in Texas and winning every other state. Yes, I think so. I think it's going to be over fairly quickly and I don't think there's going to be a convention.

CUOMO: It seemed like Sen. Rubio was more intent to going at you directly tonight than even Sen. Cruz. Why do you think that was?

TRUMP: I think that's true. I was a little surprised by it, but I liked it. I thought it was fine.

CUOMO: Did he show you a toughness that you didn't see against Christie?

TRUMP: No, I think it was the same basic person but he's a meltdown guy. And then I'm looking at him -- he's pouring sweat. I've never seen anything like it. I don't know what the problem is but he's just pouring down sweat. We have to have somebody that doesn't sweat. I mean, we need somebody that when they walk into Putin's office or Putin walks into our office, or the Chinese come to deal with us, that we know what we're doing.

CUOMO: They came at you tonight about something that's in the news right now that really is at your control, which is the tax returns.

TRUMP: Yes.

CUOMO: Mitt Romney, during the debate, was bringing it up again. You could show them in a second if you want to. Why is Trump delaying?

TRUMP: Let me explain about Mitt. Mitt is a guy who was a horrible candidate. He lost the race that should have been won, and should have been won easily. And I don't know what happened. He disappeared the last two months. But, when Mitt gave his tax returns -- just so you understand. It was about six months from now in 2012. It was 2012 -- it was exactly September 21st, and that's when he gave his tax return.

We're in a different world, so Mitt is just trying to remain relevant. Nobody's talking to him much anymore. He got some publicity today. But the one problem I have is that I'm always audited by the IRS, which I think is very unfair. I don't know -- maybe because of religion, maybe because of something else. Maybe because I'm doing this, although this is just recently.

CUOMO: What do you mean, religion?

TRUMP: Well, maybe because of the fact that I'm a strong Christian and I feeling strongly about it, and maybe there's a bias.

CUOMO: You think maybe you get audited for being a strong Christian?

TRUMP: Well, you see what's happened. You have many religious groups that are complaining about that. They've been complaining about it for a long time.

CUOMO: So, release the ones that aren't audited. It just seems like an easy answer for you.

TRUMP: No, I can't do that. I can't do that. We have to put it together in a very unified way. They all relate to each other. I don't know if you saw the picture I have where I have almost 1,000 pages.

CUOMO: Big stack of paper.

TRUMP: The ones from previous relate to the ones later, and it doesn't make sense unless they're all released.

CUOMO: You know what you would do with this issue if somebody else had it. You'd say, what are you talking about? The tax returns -- just put it out. He doesn't want to put them out.

TRUMP: Nobody that's under a regular audit -- I mean, it's just a regular audit -- almost every year -- I think for 12 years -- 10 years, 12 years -- I get audited. Nobody would ever put out their returns that's under an audit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Ok, so, let's talk more about this issue of Trump's taxes and how he handled it during the debate. Let's bring our panel back. CNN political commentator and senior contributor to The Daily Caller, Matt Lewis. CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, and CNN politics executive director Mark Preston. Great to see you guys this morning.

So let me remind everybody. Matt, I'll start with you, but let me remind everybody how Donald Trump handled it during the debate when the issue of his taxes came up. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will absolutely give my return but I'm being audited now for two or three years so I can't do it until the audit is finished, obviously. And I think people would understand that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Mitt Romney, who had brought up this issue then tweeted, "No legit reason why Donald Trump can't release returns while being audited, but if scared, release earlier returns. No longer under audit." Matt, how do you think he handled this whole kerfuffle yesterday?

LEWIS: Oh, wow. So, I thought the tax thing was interesting because I keep trying to figure out what is Mitt Romney getting at here? Is it going to hurt Trump if he's sheltering any income? No, because people expect -- Donald Trump has said, look, I'm going to pay as little taxes as possible.

But a couple of things did come up during the debate that made me think what could be on the taxes, and I think of them could be, perhaps, a donation to a group like Planned Parenthood. That came up. Donald Trump defended Planned Parenthood, saying they do all this great work. And so maybe that's something that he might be hiding.

[05:51:13] The other thing, though, that I think is leaving it hanging out there as potentially problematic -- more problematic than just getting it out. And this is an area where I think Trump may not be immune to the normal rules of politics. Ted Cruz said something about the Trump University -- how Trump is going to have to be on trial this summer, and sort of raising the specter of doubt about what's it like to have a nominee going against Hillary Clinton that's going to have stuff coming out after they're selected as the nominee?

CAMEROTA: So, Maeve, what do you think about that? The idea that maybe he's embarrassed that he donated too much to the wrong cause, or maybe he didn't actually donate enough to charity?

RESTON: Well, I think there's a big possibility that that's what Mitt Romney thinks is in there. Something that would show Trump as not being a true conservative. But I do think that Matt is right, but the longer this issue now hangs over Donald Trump -- we saw it really hurt Mitt Romney over and over again during the campaign when he waited to release his tax returns. And it kind of sound likes Donald Trump is not planning to release anything anytime soon, and I don't know if that's the best strategy for him.

CUOMO: Well, let's be careful not to go down the wormhole on this and there's several reasons why. One, he ain't Romney. Romney was trying to pace himself as a regular guy and then it came out that he wasn't paying regular taxes. Very damning -- that's why Harry Reid went after it. So, let's put that analogy to the side.

The idea that it's the contributions -- possible, but not probable. Why? High net worth people often donate through foundations and corporations, so the idea that on his joint or individual tax return you would see an itemization of who he gave to, somewhat unlikely. Oh, well maybe it shows he's not his worth money.

This is not a net asset worth statement. This is a tax return. You would see one year's worth of filings of income and different capital gains for him. So, you're not going to say that he's worth less money even if it did, which it won't. So what if he's worth $1 billion versus $8 billion? This is a ruse.

The only aspect, Preston, that's interesting, is you throw in Hillary Clinton. Why didn't you let go of the e-mails? Why don't you put out the speeches? What is she hiding? Now he's created a little bit of that for himself. Do you think that's the major impact?

PRESTON: Yes, but I also think that there is a standard for politicians and then there is the Trump standard, and throughout this whole campaign he has lived by the Trump standard and he has gotten away with it. But I have to tell you. In a debate full of moments, and so many moments, we could sit here for hours and hours talking about them. The interview that you had afterwards where he said he was being targeted by the IRS because he's a Christian might have been the biggest moment.

CUOMO: Straight face.

RESTON: Amazing.

PRESTON: Straight face.

CUOMO: Straight face.

PRESTON: Social media blows up. It is going to be headlines all throughout today.

CUOMO: Does that help him, by the way, or is that just a quick line -- a clever line?

PRESTON: With his supporters, it is going to help him. That is the Trump standard. Then there's going to be everyone else that's going to be like, did he just say that?

RESTON: But for the everyone else of last night, I disagree with you, Chris.

CUOMO: Please.

RESTON: I think that the taxes issue does, as Matt said, create this sort of thinking that's going to start happening among undecided Republicans. Is this the strongest nominee to go up against Hillary Clinton? Are there these things hanging out there that we haven't thought through yet? And we haven't really gotten to that point in this race. It wasn't until they really attacked him on these issues that you saw the beginnings of that potential hesitation.

CUOMO: I give you that, and you and Matt are making a constructive point there, to be sure. It could be an ingredient in a stew of doubt. There's no question about that. The problem will then become timing. Did they wait too long on this? And on the issue of timing, we're going to take a quick break.

But, first of all, Matt, Maeve -- what's your name again? Mark, thank you very much. Mark Preston -- you've got to remember. Mark Preston has such a heavy hand in making all these events happen at CNN that have really been driving our coverage. That's why we have to take him down when we can every once in a while. But, thank you very much for the insight this morning.