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Donald Trump Wins Seven States in Super Tuesday Voting; Hillary Clinton Wins Seven States in Super Tuesday Voting; Interview with Trump Spokesperson Katrina Pierson; Anti-Trump PAC Gears Up for Big Fight. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 02, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: -- last night. Seven states, take a look right here, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Vermont and Virginia. And just look at this -- Alabama, Massachusetts, Georgia, Vermont, vast geographic disparity right there he won across the board.

Now, Ted Cruz did very well also. He picked up three states. His home state Texas, Oklahoma, which borders Texas, and in the wee hours of the morning we call Alaska for Ted Cruz as well. That's tree states, including the home state of Sarah Palin who endorsed Donald Trump.

Now, Marco Rubio last night did something he has not done before in in race -- he won. He won Minnesota. The Minnesota caucuses, Marco Rubio got in front, Ted Cruz finished second, Donald Trump in third. This is the only state so far Marco Rubio has won in this race.

Let's look at the delegate count. Right now Donald Trump at 315, Ted Cruz at 205, Marco Rubio pretty far back off the front right now at 106. And 1,237 delegates needed to secure the nomination, so Donald Trump about a fourth of the way there.

Let's talk Democrats right now. Hillary Clinton like Donald Trump, she won seven states. Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. A lot of southern states, but Massachusetts was a hard fought battle. Both campaigns wanted Massachusetts bad. She ended up winning it.

Bernie Sanders didn't leave with nothing, though. He got four states -- Colorado, Minnesota, Oklahoma, and Vermont. And these four states they targeted. These were the four they targeted. The fifth was Massachusetts. They got four out of five.

Let's talk delegates right now. Hillary Clinton has got 1,055. That includes super delegates. Bernie Sanders has 418 right now. So if you include the super delegates, which you need to because they count just as much of the other, Hillary Clinton a little bit less than halfway there than the 2,383 she needs to clinch the nomination. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: John, thank you. That helps us so much understand what happened last night. So with Trump winning seven states and racking up more delegates,

many expected some of his rivals to get out of race. But this morning that is not the case. CNN's Jim Acosta is live in Palm Beach, Florida with more. What is the latest, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, Donald Trump clearly has the upper hand this morning. He is clearly in control of the GOP battle for the White House. But he did not accomplish one thing very important. He did not drive his rivals out of this race, allowing Ted Cruz to emerge once again as the man who could potentially stop Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have expanded the Republican Party.

ACOSTA: It was a big night for Donald Trump. The clear frontrunner now well on his way to clinching the Republican nomination.

TRUMP: The Republicans have tremendous energy. The Democrats don't. They don't have any energy. Their numbers are down. Our numbers are through the roof.

ACOSTA: The billionaire businessman racked up seven state wins, including delegate rich Virginia, Georgia, and Tennesee.

TRUMP: I think we are going to be more inclusive. I think we're going to be more unified, and I think we are going to win in November.

ACOSTA: After days of controversy over support from white supremacists, Trump tried to strike a more diplomatic tone, claiming he can unify the country.

TRUMP: I am a unifier. I know people are going to find that a little bit hard to believe, but believe me, I am a unifier.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The path beating him is for us to unify.

ACOSTA: Ted Cruz also called for unity, asking the other three non-Trump candidates to drop out after he won his home state of Texas, neighboring Oklahoma, and Alaska.

CRUZ: Listen, if we remain divided, then in all likelihood Donald Trump becomes the nominee. That result was made clear tonight. But I think Donald has a hard ceiling of 35-40 percent.

ACOSTA: Cruz is making the case that he's the GOP's only hope to win the White House.

CRUZ: For those who have supported other candidates, we welcome you on our team standing united as one.

(APPLAUSE)

ACOSTA: But Trump said GOP leaders should get behind him or else.

TRUMP: I'm going to get along great with congress. Paul Ryan, I don't know him well but I'm sure I'm going to get along great with him. And if I don't, he's going to have to pay a big price, OK?

ACOSTA: And even on a night of victories Trump continued the war of insults with Marco Rubio.

TRUMP: I know it was a tough night more Marco Rubio. He had a tough night. But he worked hard. He spent a lot of money. He is a lightweight.

ACOSTA: But Rubio did pull off his first win in Minnesota and vowed to fight an.

RUBIO: There will never come a time where our supporters are asking out to get out and rally around Donald Trump. What people are saying is fight has hard as you can to save the party of Lincoln and Reagan from a con artist who refuses to criticize the KKK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: But the stop Trump movement is picking up steam this morning. A Republican anti-Trump super PAC announced last night it is hiring more staff, pouring more resources into defeating the frontrunner before the next critical contest coming up very quickly on Saturday later on this week and spread out over the next couple of weeks. And Chris, officials with that super PAC say that time is still on their side, that there is still time to block Donald Trump from this nomination and that the fight is going to play out at the convention later on this summer in Cleveland.

[08:05:10] CUOMO: Time, yes. You have got 250 days until the general election, but not that much until we head to the conventions. And as you know all too well, time gets short real fast as we get closer into the summer.

All right, so now let's look at the other side now. Hillary Clinton looking to build on her Super Tuesday momentum, shifting her attention to Trump and a general election. But Bernie Sanders is not conceding anything at this point. CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny live in Miami covering the Clinton campaign. Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Chris. Hillary Clinton racked up big wins across the south yesterday from Virginia to Arkansas to Alabama. She won some 65 percent to his 30 percent. About an average there in a lot of those states. But of course Democrats split their delegates. That means Bernie Sanders has the right to go on. He won four states in his own right -- Oklahoma, Minnesota, Colorado, and his home state of Vermont here. But Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders had a meeting of the minds of sorts in their respective victory parties last night. They had a common person in mind, and his name was Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That work is not

to make great again. America never stopped being great.

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When we bring our people together and when we have the courage to stand up to the billionaire class and tell them they can't have it all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now there is one reason that Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are mentioning Donald Trump. The fact is he fires up Democratic voters. He fires up minority voters in particular. That is one thing that the Clinton campaign believes is a strong suit for them. They have been worried all along here if Democratic voters would come out in the sizes that they did in 2008 for Barack Obama. So far they haven't, but they believe Donald Trump will be someone who electrifies the Democratic base here.

But of course the next week of this Democratic contest, so important. There are two more debates, one on Sunday, a CNN debate, another debate a week from today in Miami. That may be one of the last chances for Bernie Sanders to show that he is the better choice for Democrats here. But going forward, the Clinton campaign tells me, a top advisor tells me they believe my March 15th that they will have an insurmountable mathematic lead at least in this long Democratic fight. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: March 15th, yes, that is a significant date to keep our eyes on. Thanks so much, Jeff.

Donald Trump celebrating seven Super Tuesday wins, but there is a twist. Exit polls show many Republicans would not be happy to see him as the nominee. CNN's Christine Romans joins us now was the conflicting results. What are you seeing?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's really interesting, you guys. Exit polls showing broad support for Trump across income, ideology, education, we told you that. But then there's this. We asked voters if they would be satisfied or dissatisfied if Donald Trump wins the nomination. And here is what they told us in four states Donald Trump won. In Alabama, 56 percent said yes, yes, they would be happy if Trump is their nominee. In Tennessee, just over half say yes, they are satisfied with Trump nabbing the GOP nomination.

Here is where it gets interesting. In Arkansas, a state Trump won, he won this one, less than half would be satisfied with a Trump nomination. Of those that don't support Trump, Ted Cruz then Marco Rubio would be their choice. In Virginia, that is battle ground state in November, right, again, 54 percent said they would not be satisfied, no, not satisfied with Donald Trump as their choice. Marco Rubio is their top choice. Again, Trump won Virginia. He dominated in almost every demographic. Yet more than half of voters would not be satisfied with him in the nomination. This and the late deciders breaking for Marco Rubio, those are the two cracks showing, you guys, for Donald Trump in the exit polls. CUOMO: All right, Christine, thank you very much. Appreciate

it.

Joining us now with Trump perspective is Katrina Pierson, national spokesperson for the Trump campaign. Congratulations to you on last night's seven states. And if we can let's call up the turnout numbers from last night, because that is the theory of success for Donald Trump, that he is going to bring new and more voters to the polls for the GOP and then in the general election. Is that what you believe is going to happen based on last night, Katrina?

KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESMAN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Good morning, Chris. And, yes, I do believe that. We've been seeing that from the beginning of this campaign with Mr. Trump. At first they said, can he turn these crowds into votes? And I think we've proven that we have actually done that and considerably so.

And we're looking forward to that because, that is what the Republican Party has been saying they needed. And as you mentioned in your reporting this morning, Mr. Trump is bringing along people from all stripes of the board. We have young, we have old. We have some minorities. We've got the conservatives. We've got moderates and liberals. That is what we need. That is the coalition that we have been talking about, plus bringing states into play that no other Republican will be able to do.

[08:10:01] CUOMO: And in point of fact, since 1960 no Republican running for the nomination has won the states that Trump has and not become the nominee, so that is in the favorable side of history. On the other hand we happened in Minnesota. This is Rubio's theory of the case. Can we put up those numbers of what happened in Minnesota last night. It's the only place where Trump finished third. Rubio wound up winning. His point is, if everyone gets behind me I can take on Trump and I can beat him. Do you agree? Of course not. Why?

PIERSON: No. If every state was a caucus, maybe. But no, I don't think so at all. And I think this also shows where the race really is. It does look like Senator Cruz has won more states than Marco Rubio, actual states, not just caucuses, but actual primaries, and I think that's really important as well.

And when it comes to policy, we're talking about someone who made promises to the people of the state of Florida particularly with regard to immigration, and then did the exact opposite of that, which is the definition of a con man, by the way. So I think he's going to have a harder problem winning his own home state because they already know he has no intentions of doing the things that he says he's going do. Whereas Mr. Trump who has a record of creating jobs, a record of building success, and has great policies that are pro America, and Americans love that.

CUOMO: You brought up the term "conman," so let's take a look at some of the things that are going on that raise that specter and you can refute them. The first one, last night in talking about how he would be a unifier and be good. Donald Trump said I'll get along with Paul Ryan, and if not he'll have to pay a big price. Is that the kind of message to send as the unifier?

PIERSON: Well, what he's talking about are the people. We see the people out there coalescing behind Donald Trump. And then you have leadership of the party, the quote-unquote "establishment," once again fighting back the people. And that is what Mr. Trump is talking about. He's saying, hey, pay attention. You finally have someone bringing everyone together. The establishment now has an opportunity to acknowledge that. But instead you are seeing them go the exact same way they've done in the last few cycles and fight back against the choice of the people.

CUOMO: Jobs. Jobs is a big point. Certainly it's a big reason and motivation for people to come out and vote for Donald Trump. He says I'm going to bring job back. I really need you to explain how, because jobs are not really controlled by government. They are controlled by capitalism, as you know. That is why Trump makes his ties and different products outside the country. That is why he often sources materials for the buildings that he has a part of the construction in from outside the country. What could he do to change the rules that he himself benefits from?

PIERSON: Well, I think that is a great question. And more specifically to a point that's coming up actually with more trade agreements, because you are right, Chris, government doesn't create jobs, but it can drive jobs away with horrible tax policies, with horrible trade deals, which is exactly what we have today.

Mr. Trump is talking about renegotiating those trade deals, and actually those jobs will come back to America because we need to be making things in this country again. NAFTA eliminated a third of the jobs in South Carolina and millions of other jobs along the south. We're talking about the Transpacific Partnership now which is going to eliminate more jobs. We have to get back to common sense governing, true capitalism, not crony capitalism. And that is going to do wonders for creating jobs in this country.

CUOMO: Will it create them? What you are outlining right now at best would be a way to staunch job losses, not create more jobs, not bring jobs back. We both know why the jobs aren't here. It is cheaper to make things abroad. That is why Donald Trump makes things abroad. How do you change is that? That is fundamental capitalism. Is he going the make people raise their labor rates overseas? Is he going to lower what people get paid here?

PIERSON: No. What he's going to do is renegotiate the trade deals, which means of course we're going to start taxing those countries that tax us. We are not doing that at present. We need to bring those jobs back by telling these companies come back. And states are doing this now, offering tax incentives to bring those companies back into the United States, to create those jobs that were once here.

What happened is we have sent jobs overseas because we are taxing businesses astronomically. We have the highest corporate tax rate. That is why jobs are leaving. When you get that under control, those jobs will come back, and that is how you create jobs in the country. CUOMO: Last question for you today. If someone were to come up

to you Katrina and say America is not a great place, would you agree?

PIERSON: Well, I think America is the greatest country on the planet and has been for a very long time.

CUOMO: But your slogan is "Make America Great Again." That obviously implies that we ain't great.

PIERSON: But what I will say is what we have seen and why most Americans including Democrats are fighting this cycle is that when they wake up in the morning, they don't recognize the country that used to be great. They don't see a country they can pass on to their families like we had.

[08:15:00] Every parent today wants their country to be better. We have 92 million people unemployed in this country. We do have massive job losses. We have policies that are implemented to help illegal aliens over veterans. We have trade deals helping transnational corporations and global banks not families in America. That is not a great place to be in, but it can be turned around, and Donald Trump is just the guy to do it.

CUOMO: Katrina Pierson, congratulations on last night. Thanks for being on NEW DAY today.

PIERSON: Thanks, Chris. Good to see you.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: It was also a successful Super Tuesday for Hillary Clinton. She won seven states but Bernie Sanders won four. So, what's her plan to solidify support? Can Sanders pull off a comeback?

The Clinton camp here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: It was a big Super Tuesday for Donald Trump. But his campaign is not without some trouble. Trump's most prominent supporter is now coming under fire. While the fallout over Trump's KKK comment heat up.

John Berman is back with more.

John, what are you seeing?

BERMAN: It's been a busy week in Trump world. And Trump world includes New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

Now, the New Jersey governor facing some heat at home. Six newspapers, six newspapers in his own state, albeit owned by the same conglomerate, have all called on Chris Christie to resign, to get out. This after his failed presidential bid and after he endorsed Donald Trump.

And it's not just the New Jersey papers.

[08:20:00] What about "The New Hampshire Union Leader"? Remember, Christie had a big endorsement from them in the New Hampshire primary when he was still running. Look at these words, boy, were we wrong. Not happy with Chris Christie anymore at all.

Now, it doesn't seem to have Donald Trump last night, as you remember, he picked up seven states, won seven states on Super Tuesday, the biggest delegate haul. That is what the people said. The people spoke.

But what about that party? Top Republican leaders not mincing their words after Trump took his time denouncing the controversial comments or the endorsement by the former grand wizard of the KKK, David Duke.

Listen to what the leader said. This is Paul Ryan first and then Mitch McConnell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: If a person wants to be the nominee of the Republican Party, there can be no evasion and no games. They must reject any group or cause that is built on bigotry.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: Let me make it perfectly clear. Senate Republicans condemn, David Duke, the KKK, and his racism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, you know, it's important to note that Paul Ryan made clear he will support whoever the nominee is. And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell also stopped short of denying he would vote for Trump if he is the nominee.

But some Republican members of Congress are going that far. Republican member Ben Sasse from Nebraska, something of a hero, very popular among young Republicans in conservative movement, he says, "If Trump becomes the Republican nominee, my expectation is I'll look for some third candidate, a conservative option, a constitutionalist." He says he will not vote for Donald Trump.

Now, what about Donald Trump himself? He did seem to try to temper his remarks last night, a bit of a softer tone, even congratulated Ted Cruz for his victories last night and he called for unity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a unifier. I would love to see the Republican Party and everybody get together and unify. And when we unify, there is nobody, nobody that is going to beat us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: (AUDIO GAP) together and unify, if I have to be tough with Paul Ryan, I will be -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we know you will be, John.

All right. Thanks so much for that.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: All right. So, an anti-Trump super PAC is promising to ramp up attacks on Donald Trump. Our Principles PAC has a new ad taking on Trump for his hesitation to renounce the KKK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID DUKE, FORMER KKK GRAND WIZARD: Running against Donald Trump at this point is really treason to your heritage. I do support his candidacy and I support voting for him.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know anything about David Duke. OK? I don't know anything about what you are even talking about with white supremacy and white supremacists. So, I don't know. I have to look at the group.

You wouldn't want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I'd have to look.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: That's disqualifying right there. It's breathtaking.

DAVID LETTERMAN, TV HOST: It is all fun and all a circus and all a rodeo stem cell it starts to smack of racism, and then it's no longer fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The anti-Trump PAC also beefing up its staff, hiring former Jeb Bush spokesman Tim Miller as its new communications adviser and Tim joins us now.

Tim, that's a tough ad. You even would have been Trump's buddies in there from the media saying it was disqualifying. Do you really believe that his flubbing of that question is something more than flubbing and could resonate with voters in a big way?

TIM MILLER, COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER, OUR PRINCIPLES PAC: Well, absolutely Chris. Thanks for having me, first.

And number one, it is disturbing that Donald Trump has a series of actions like this that, you know, smack of racism. That make people question what his motives are.

But looking at this just electorally, this makes him absolutely unelectable. And a new CNN poll out yesterday had Donald Trump losing to Clinton by eight points, while all her other candidates were beating her.

And Hillary Clinton literally could be under indictment in the general election and she would still crush Donald Trump. You cannot win a general election in this country if you can't clearly condemn the KKK. And the fact that I have to say that is pretty ridiculous, because it's so obvious on its face, and that's one of the cases we are going to be making against him between now and the upcoming primaries and caucuses.

COUMO: Let's look at the basis of these cases that you are making here. The one against Hillary Clinton very little reason to believe she's going to be under indictment anytime, let alone anytime soon, but let's put her to the side because that's not what your PAC's immediate focus is.

He has said horrible things to some people's ears in the past. Others see it as candor, see it as refreshing. At least you know where his head is on things. Whatever the explanation, it hasn't hurt him. Why seize on this one about the KKK when he says, "I disavowed David Duke. I couldn't hear anything in hi hear." Whatever, whatever. He disavows them.

MILLER: Sure. Well, number one, I have to reject this notion that Donald Trump is the king of candor.

Donald Trump is a total fraud. He tells people what they want to hear. Not what he really thinks. He has an entire past where he's completely changed his positions on a whole host of issues.

So, look this is the case we're going to make, Chris. I think you are right. People at this point understand Donald Trump is going to go out there and say a lot of crazy stuff. The case we're going make against him and beyond if it's necessary is number one, that makes him completely unelectable against Hillary Clinton.

Any person who doesn't wan to see Hillary Clinton in the White House must support a Republican candidate other than Donald Trump. He cannot beat her. She will light the floor with him. It will be an epic massacre.

And number two, we're going to be bringing new information to the table. Things people don't know about Donald Trump, particularly related to his business record. The fact he enriched himself on the backs of regular people. That he has associations with a lot of scandalous characters and that is something that hasn't been in the discussion over the course of the primaries --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The question is why not, Tim? Other than the KKK thing which is, you know, new. All of this stuff had been around forever. You were with Jeb Bush's campaign. You could have brought up all of this stuff.

None of you really did. It would bubble up in the media and everybody would shout it down as being unfair to Trump. You guys never picked up the ball. Why not?

MILLER: Well, look, every candidate has to run their own campaign and this has been a completely unprecedented race, Chris, and the media and pundits look to look at this in the prism of how did it work in 2012? How did it work in 2008?

You know, this was 17-person field and a field that has huge diversity in opinions on the issues. Donald Trump is completely outside of the mainstream on where the party is on a host of issues.

So what we're seeing now is Donald Trump is having an erosion of support as his campaign goes on. If you look at the polls last night, 50 percent of the people in the exit polls who voted said they will be disappointed with Donald Trump as the nominee.

We've never had anything like this before. So what we had a really fractured field in a fractured race and now as it is coming into focus. You know, one of the things that needs to happen is that voters need to be educated on Donald Trump's record when it comes to businesses the fact that he started a subprime mortgage company six months before the mortgage collapse.

CUOMO: True.

MILLER: When people knew there were problems in the housing market he was giving people bad loans. I mean, this is not a good businessman and this is a person looking out for himself and not regular people and that is the case we're going make.

CUOMO: So, the bet is that you are going the attack his past. What you could call his record because he hasn't been in public service. And the hopes of getting people to see him in a different way and coalesce. Galvanize around another candidate. That candidate is going to be Cruz or Rubio in all likelihood.

Jeb Bush is going to have a big say here because Florida is all important for Rubio, as an all-in state. Knowing what you know about his mind and that man, do you believe he's going to come out for Rubio before that primary?

MILLER: You know, look, I'm going to have to let Jeb make those decisions and those announcements for himself.

CUOMO: Come on, give me something, Tim. Give me something.

MILLER: OK, Chris, here's what I'll give you. Here's what I know: number one, Jeb Bush through the entire primary made it explicitly clear he did not think Donald Trump was qualified, had the right temperament to be president, was a conservative. He had a lot of negative things to say --

CUOMO: So did Chris Christie and look where he wound up.

MILLER: And he was the one doing it every minute, dating back to July, he was standing up to him every step of the way.

So, we know that about Jeb. And he's going to have to make an endorsement decision for himself.

What I'm doing and what our Principles PAC is focusing on rye we have to stop Donald Trump. Right now, you guys in the media are trying to anoint him because he's good for business, and the thing is, he doesn't have half of the delegates that have been allotted at this point.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Tim, you go through an entire election cycle not coming at the guy on any of these bases and you are going to blame the media?

MILLER: No, look, I'm not blaming the media.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: -- you just did.

MILLER: -- the media thinks that Donald Trump is good for business. The media is anointing Donald Trump saying he can't be stopped. That's hogwash.

There are three quarters of the delegates have not yet been voted on. Three quarters of the people in the Republican primary have not had their say and of the people who have voted Donald Trump doesn't even have half.

So, this is going to be a long fight. Donald Trump is wrong for the party. The unfavorables are going up as this process goes along. And so, we'll have to see what happens over the course of the next three weeks. But I think there is a lot of material out there that is going to be used against him. And, you know, we get to help you guys out a little with your Donald Trump business. Give you some fodder, some more things to talk about.

CUOMO: Your position is clear. It is always easy to reach me. You know that.

Tim Miller, thank you for being on NEW DAY. I appreciate it.

Alisyn?

MILLER: Thanks for having me, Chris.

CAMEROTA: All right. A successful Super Tuesday for Hillary Clinton. She won seven states but Bernie Sanders won four. So, what's her plan to become the nominee? The Clinton campaign here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)