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Sanders Stuns Clinton in Michigan; Donald Trump Has Now Won 15 States; Cruz & Kasich Neck and Neck for Second in Michigan; Rubio Flops on Super Tuesday Part 2; Is Cruz the Only Viable Trump Alternative? Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired March 09, 2016 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your "NEW DAY." It is Wednesday, March 9th; 5:30 in the East.

Mick in New York. We are coming to you live from the University of Miami. The U.

What a stunner on Super Tuesday. Bernie Sanders defying the polls, saying forget it to the pundits, taking Michigan in a crazy close race with Hillary Clinton.

[05:30:00] What a stunner on Super Tuesday. Bernie Sanders defying the polls, saying forget it to the pundits. Taking Michigan in a crazy close race with Hillary Clinton. Monday, the question was whether Clinton would seal the deal. Now, the Clinton camp is wondering what's the deal with middle class and independent voters as they struggle to connect.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So, on the Republican side, Donald Trump winning three states. We will talk to Donald Trump live in our 6:00 hour. Stay tuned for that. Also, Ted Cruz scored a win as well, but Marco Rubio got crushed last night. So what does that mean to the future of his campaign? We have this race covered the way only CNN can, so let's begin with CNN anchor John Berman on who won where and the latest delegate count. Good morning, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Alisyn. You know, what a night it was, and this right here was the biggest surprise. You said it -- Bernie Sanders with the upset victory in Michigan. You can see how close it was. Less than one percent but enough to be a huge moral victory for Bernie Sanders.

But, Hillary Clinton didn't leave with nothing -- no. She won Mississippi and she won huge by more than 140,000 votes. That is a big, big victory and it has a big, big impact. It means that Hillary Clinton actually won more delegate last night. So look at the delegate map. Hillary Clinton with more than 1,200, Bernie Sanders short of 600. This does include super delegates, but even without super delegates, Hillary Clinton extended her lead last night.

Let's look at the Republican side right now. You can see Donald Trump with victories in Mississippi, Ted Cruz in second right there. In the state of Michigan, Donald Trump in first place -- 36 percent of the vote. Again, Ted Cruz edging out John Kasich for second. That is significant. Ted Cruz did notch a victory last night, as well. He won the state of Idaho, you can see, fairly convincing.

Here, importantly, Marco Rubio below 20 percent. That's below the delegate threshold. He gets nothing in Idaho. I want you to look at Hawaii. That's a state we just called a couple of hours ago -- in the wee hours of the morning. Donald Trump prevailed there as well. What does this mean? It means that Donald Trump extended his delegate lead in the Republican race. He now leads Ted Cruz by 101.

Marco Rubio, as of now, didn't pick up a single delegate yesterday. That could change over the next hour. Maybe get one or two from Hawaii, but that's not a lot. As we head into next week, next Tuesday is huge. You can see big winner-take-all states for the Republicans in Florida and Ohio. On the Democratic side it is proportional but Florida looms large there, as well -- guys.

CUOMO: All right, John. Big findings, no question. You've got math, but then you also have the momentum of what happened last night and that's why Bernie Sanders is getting the big eyes this morning because he really shook up the political world by taking the Michigan primary, period.

So, how did all the pollsters and the political prognosticators get this race so wrong? Let's discuss. CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is live in Cleveland with more on that. Tell me what you can tell me?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Chris. Not only was it the biggest delegate win, it was also the biggest symbolic win. It doesn't get more symbolic for Democrats than the state of Michigan -- the home of the auto industry. And really, for the last week or so, this has been a laboratory for the dueling economic messages for both of this Democratic candidates and voters sided with Bernie Sanders in a big surprise to the Clinton campaign.

Now, I am here in Ohio, which is where Sec. Clinton was last night. She didn't stick around to find out the results of the Michigan primary, but before she left this is what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm proud of the campaign that Sen. Sanders and I are running. We have our differences, which you can see when we debate, but I'll tell you what. Those differences pale in comparison to what's happening on the Republican side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: But some Democrats believe she was looking ahead too far to the Republican side and ignoring what was going on in front of her with that Democratic race of her own with Bernie Sanders in Michigan. Now, Sen. Sanders was not exactly expecting this win either. He was in Miami last night. He left long before the results in Michigan were even called. He had to come back and address the cameras. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The political revolution that we are talking about is strong in every part of the country, and frankly, we believe that our strongest areas are yet to happen. We're going to do very, very well on the west coast and other parts of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, mathematically speaking, Sec. Clinton still has a comfortable lead. But politically speaking, this resets the race -- no question. Now, Chris, one top Democratic adviser told me that Sec. Clinton didn't as much underestimate Bernie Sanders as misunderstand the electorate, and that is what is puzzling them as this race goes forward to Florida next week and here in Ohio, as well. A key Democratic moment for this fight with Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton -- Alisyn.

[05:35:16]

CAMEROTA: Absolutely, Jeff. Thanks so much for breaking all of that down for us. So, let's look at the numbers behind the Michigan upset. What went wrong for Hillary Clinton? Christine Romans has a look at the deciding factors in the exit polls. Christine, what are they revealing?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Misunderstood the electorate in Michigan -- Hillary Clinton did. That's exactly how her campaign puts it and that's what the numbers reveal. Let's look at what issues voters said mattered most. Forty-three percent said it's the economy and jobs. And Alisyn, Michigan voters are not feeling great about either of those.

Eighty-one percent of voters say they are worried about the economy in Michigan. Of course, it's all about the auto industry. And at the last Democratic debate here on CNN, Clinton and Sanders really sparred about the auto bailout. That did not help her.

It was their disagreements on trade that really resonated with voters. The majority of voters said trade takes away U.S. jobs, and Bernie Sanders has tapped into that. Fifty-eight percent of those who think that trade takes away American jobs -- they say Bernie Sanders is their guy.

Let's look at the racial breakdown of voters. Among African-American voters, between about a quarter of the voters last night, Hillary Clinton won 65 percent of the vote. Now, that obviously bests Bernie Sanders but it's a much narrower margin than she did in Michigan. There, 90 percent of African-Americans -- 89 percent voted for Hillary -- Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: All right, very different state -- Michigan from Mississippi, obviously, so let's discuss what happened. Let's bring back Jeff Zeleny in here and add to the stew journalist and author David Gregory, CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston. Good to have you all here this morning.

All right, brother Gregory, when you're looking at this a little bit of the headline seems to be oh, she misunderstood the electorate. Is that true, or was this about the difference between potential, that we saw in the preference polls, and turnout?

DAVID GREGORY, JOURNALIST: Well, I think turnout is part of it and I do think, you know -- look, we spent a lot of time looking at the numbers and looking at these states. Let's remember one of the big storylines of this campaign. People are really angry at government. They're dissatisfied with government and the impact it has on their lives.

So if you look at Michigan voters who are unhappy with government, they're dealing with Flint, they're dealing with the auto bailout, but they're also dealing with the impact of trade, as Jeff and others have said. And that impact is something that they look at government and say that's not helping my life, it's hurting my life.

So, I think that Sanders is tapping into that in the same way that Trump is. That's what we have to remember, and I think that's where a lot of the resonance is. People who feel they're on the outside of what the economic system is about in terms of delivering for them.

And, again, I go back to the debate, as was just mentioned. I thought that Hillary Clinton's play on the auto bailout -- that was a knockdown of Sanders in the debate. I got that wrong because it apparently backfired, and his message on trade to those working class, white voterswas much stronger than she had to offer.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, do you agree that the issue of trade eclipse even the Flint water crisis, or is it that Bernie Sanders campaigns differently in Michigan than Hillary Clinton did. He cast a wider net.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: He did. He did campaign more intensively than she did, setting up 13 offices around the state, spending a lot more time there. She, obviously, was looking at those Super Tuesday contests and not getting as much time in Michigan as she expected. But, I really think that auto bailout argument really didn't work for her.

The people in Michigan know their history, they know that he was on the record in support the auto bailout, and she was arguing because he voted a certain way on the Wall Street bailout, and people just didn't buy that there. And it really, again, sort of shows her difficulties, not only with white, working class voters but also independent voters because this, of course, was an open primary as well.

CUOMO: Let's get a contrasting point going. David Gregory, Maeve Reston, they're too smart, Jeff Zeleny. Maybe we're looking at her in too sophisticated a level. What did we hear all day yesterday from the campaign about halfway through the poll opening to the end? Turnout is off, turnout is off. The numbers aren't coming out. We're going to bus people. We're going to drive people. We're trying to get the phone trees going again. Their preference polls may have been spot on, but the get-out-the-vote effort, either organizationally or in terms of mood, wasn't there compared to 2008. And that's why you have this yawning gap in the difference of turnout that we saw between that race and this one.

ZELENY: Well, Chris, that has been an issue all along for the Clinton campaign here. The numbers of Democratic turnout have been down. Of course, Republicans turnout is up because it is such an enthusiastic race, shall we say. But there are concerns inside the Clinton campaign and they say they're Michigan-specific, but there were organizational concerns that they were not ready to get out that vote.

And you're right about the numbers. They were hoping that Wayne County, the city of Detroit, would help them over this edge here, but the reality is Bernie Sanders was winning in college towns and among white voters. So, the demographic profile of Michigan -- the challenge for the Clinton campaign is it's nearly exactly the same as the state of Ohio here -- more than 70 percent white.

[05:40:32] That is the challenge for the Clinton campaign here to spark enthusiasm, and it's one of those head scratchers. They don't know exactly why Democrats aren't as enthused about here. Some say they don't think that she's threatened as much. Some say they haven't tuned into the race as much.

But Bernie Sanders has the drive and the energy of this campaign here. When you attended one of Bernie Sander's rallies there were always the numbers in the thousands. He had 10,000 people at Michigan State, 6,000 people at the University of Michigan, some 6,000 people in Grand Rapids.

Hillary Clinton, in her final rally, had a few hundred people, and what did she say? She said, the sooner you nominate me, I can start taking on Republicans. The reality is she was looking past primary day and it's something she might live to regret.

GREGORY: Yes, I think that's part of it --

CAMEROTA: And -- go ahead, David.

GREGORY: I'm sorry, Alisyn. It's an environmental factor here, which is where's the enthusiasm? There's a lot of coverage. A lot of people thought well, you know, Clinton's got this wrapped up. Even after Nevada, you know, this is kind of hers to lose at this point. And there's a lot of real enthusiastic supporters for Bernie Sanders who say hey, wait a minute, not so fast. Hold the applause. There's more game here and there's an important message that he has to deliver.

RESTON: And they're pumping money into the campaign. This is going to give him so much momentum, again, for those supporters who really hoped that he could bring it to her, even though mathematically it looks very difficult for him.

CUOMO: Very often, one of the bromides is message beats man, or woman, in this case. The mood of the country is obvious, it's palpable, and it's are you with the mood? Are you the agent of the mood or are you something else? And that's going to be a big question for her in all these states.

RESTON: Can she tap into it.

CAMEROTA: OK, panel, please stick around. We have so much more to talk about. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, though, we wanted to let you know, face off tonight in their next debate. It's here in Miami. CNN will simulcast that Univision Democratic presidential debate at 9:00 p.m. eastern. That will be all the more interesting given what happened last night.

CUOMO: I'll tell you. An unusual election in so many ways and one of them is that these debates all wind up coming at these serious flashpoints. Tonight matters. They're coming in right on the heels of Michigan.

CAMEROTA: I know. It's like we planned it.

CUOMO: Yes, we did. How come we can't get anything else right? All right, let's look at the GOP side. Yes, Cruz took Idaho -- that's big. Even more big -- you've got to look at Trump in terms of how wow his numbers were and how wow on the negative side they were for Marco Rubio. Let's bring in CNN senior White House correspondent, the resplendent Jim Acosta, joining us with more. Good morning, my friend.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I don't know if you noticed this. They had the Trump steaks out last night at his victory party so it was a job well done, you might say, for Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

ACOSTA: He was coming off a not so Super Saturday, but he loomed large over mini Tuesday, winning the two big prizes of the night, Michigan, and Mississippi. Trump rolled to impressive wins in both states, responding to criticism that his support was softening after some of those controversial comments that he made over the last week.

The GOP front-runner -- he laughed off the Super PAC ads that are bombarding his campaign, as well as his top two rivals, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, who once again failed to slow his momentum. Here is what Trump had to say last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to thank the special interests and the lobbyists because they obviously did something to drive these numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, John Kasich, he did gain some momentum. He was in a neck-in-neck race for second place in Michigan, bolstering his case that he should stay in this race although he's hurting Marco Rubio a great deal. Ted Cruz picked up first place in Idaho. He managed to perform better overall than Marco Rubio throughout the night.

Marco Rubio had another rough night. He will have to recover quickly to start laying the groundwork for a comeback win in his home state of Florida next week. That is when voters from Kasich's home state of Ohio, Illinois, North Carolina, Missouri are all up for grabs. The storyline yesterday was Trump is struggling. Maybe Trump is slowing down. Now, the storyline is Trump's rolling again.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it has shifted once again.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Jim, thanks so much.

CUOMO: He's struggling. He's struggling to carry all those delegates on his back.

ACOSTA: It's heavy.

CUOMO: That's right. So, in our next hour we are going to talk to the winner of the night, Donald Trump, about his big night. What does it mean and what does it mean going forward?

CAMEROTA: Also just ahead we'll dig into Donald Trump's win -- his three big victories. Is Cruz still the alternative and what is going to happen with Marco Rubio's future? All of that, next.

[05:45:12]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:50:13]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I can get along with people. Look, the bottom line is we have something going that's so good we should grab each other and we should unify the party. And nobody's going to beat us, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump striking a tone of unity after racking up three more big wins last night. He easily won Michigan, Mississippi, and Hawaii. This is a sharp contrast to Marco Rubio who did not win. His campaign may be in free fall. So, here to discuss is David Gregory, Maeve Reston, and we want to bring in CNN political commentator and senior contributor to The Daily Caller, Matt Lewis. Great to have all of you here.

OK, Matt, I'll start with you. It was -- some considered it a tough week for Donald Trump where his dominance was called into question.

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

CAMEROTA: But last night he came roaring back. How do you see it?

LEWIS: Well, in terms of momentum you can't keep him down, right -- in terms of momentum. Donald Trump has his mojo back. I would point out, though, if the paradigm is momentum, Trump is winning. He's the front-runner clearly.

If the paradigm is stopping Donald Trump from getting the 1,237 delegates he needs to be the nominee, last night really not a great night. He gets about 35 percent of the delegates or something like that. He needs to get 50 percent, or more than 50 percent of the delegates to be the nominee. So, if the goal is to stop him from clinching the nomination he has to do better than he did last night.

CUOMO: All right, but you have to look at stopping him from getting the nomination in two ways. One is the math, which is math pulling in. But it's not going to be just about math because let's say he gets to 1,100 and you go into a convention, how do you not give it to the man who has 1,100 delegates when the next person may be at 800- 850?

RESTON: And who are his supporters going to blame when the party elders, ala Romney and others, come in and try to wrest the nomination away from him?

CUOMO: And what does it mean about the power of the negative? They brought it all at him. We've been covering it all week. It was the most, the heaviest, the ugliest barrage of any person in that party that we've seen. Why didn't it work?

RESTON: Because I think that money does not seem to work on Donald Trump with these kinds of attacks. When the anti-Trump forces were getting together and talking about what they would throw at him, they said that people hadn't seen even five percent of the research against him yet, but it's not working. It's not sticking because that's not what his people care about. I think that they can sway some voters at the edges who are undecided Republicans, but it's just not working on the supporters that are going to be with him until the end.

CAMEROTA: Hey, David, let's talk about the rest of the field because they had an interesting night as well. Cruz won Idaho and John Kasich -- he had always said that he was going to do well in Michigan. He came in third but he was virtually tied with Cruz. They got the same amount, in Michigan, of delegates -- I think 17 each. So what do you see for the rest of the field now?

GREGORY: Well, let's start with the most negative and that's Rubio, right? Everybody's having something of a moment except Marco Rubio, and he's the one that the Republican establishment keeps holding up as the one who can beat Trump. So, I think it's increasingly desperate for him. That's the reality. Nothing's going to happen before Florida. He's, obviously, going to put it all on the line in Florida.

But as Matt says, if you look at Kasich, he's wanted to show some strength in the industrial Midwest. Had a little bit of that in Michigan last night. Goes to Ohio, tries to make a play there. Cruz is still consolidating that anti-Trump vote in a way that still has him as the most likely to face Trump one-on-jone. But I think everybody's still struggling a little bit. And, yes, can they stop Trump, and to Chris' point I think that's right, but there's going to be a lot of supporters if he gets to the convention with 1,100 delegates. But the math is the math. You have to have 1,237. Those are the rules. So, whether you have 1,100 or not, you don't have 1,237. And we've seen, even in our recent history, where there's a play for delegations and different moves at the convention based on being short of the numbers, so that will just be a reality.

But I think you keep seeing Trump winning in ways that are really effective. He's bringing in disaffected parts of the Republican Party on trade, on immigration, independent voters. Winning all over the map electorally. It's really striking.

CUOMO: And what are they failing to do, Matt? If you look at it -- one, you never play strength against strength in politics. And if you're going to go personal -- you're going to go ad hominem -- that's what Trump is good at. They're not offering anything better to these disaffected people other than saying hey, you're wrong to like Trump. It's never enough in an election. So, who do you see having a message that can counter it?

LEWIS: Ted Cruz. I think that this is the interesting thing. Ted Cruz is sending signals that he might try to mess things up for Marco Rubio in Florida. Big mistake. He should let Rubio win Florida, thereby depriving Trump of all the winner-take-all delegates. I think 99 delegates in Florida.

But, Ted Cruz could come out of a contested convention. I know it sounds crazy but if the delegates -- you know, the base would feel like if Trump has plurality of delegates but doesn't win the nomination, they're going to have to turn to somebody like Ted Cruz who speaks to the disaffected working class white voters out there and the conservative base, but would be more palatable to a lot of mainstream conservatives.

Ted Cruz, I think, is the only guy left in the race who can channel that anger and frustration. Rubio, I think, may be better in a general election but doesn't have that same connection to the zeitgeist of the moment.

RESTON: And the Cruz campaign is really showing its strength here in these pops in the little states that he's winning, and really his organization and also some of the fervor among some conservatives who are really for him.

CAMEROTA: OK, panel, stick around. Obviously, we'll call upon you throughout the morning. Thanks so much for that.

CUOMO: All right, now. Tomorrow night Trump and his rivals are going to face off in the final debate before the Florida and Ohio primaries next week. Those are winner-take-all. The man, Jake Tapper, moderating the CNN Republican debate tomorrow night, 8:30 eastern, only, of course, on CNN.

CAMEROTA: OK, coming up on NEW DAY we break down Bernie Sander's shocking upset in Michigan. How he pulled it off and what it means for Hillary Clinton's campaign moving forward. And, a very big night for Donald Trump. Donald Trump will join us live to talk about his impressive performance and his expectations moving forward. That's in just a few minutes. Stick around.

[05:56:13]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your new day. It is Wednesday, March 9th, 6:00 in the east. Mic is new New York. Alisyn and I are coming to you live from the University of Miami -- the U. I'm going to do that all morning.

CAMEROTA: Oh, good.

CUOMO: Bernie Sanders pulling off a big victory over Hillary Clinton in the Michigan primary. Clinton also winning big in Mississippi, but just days removed from targeting the Republicans. That's what Clinton was saying.