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Sanders Stuns Clinton in Michigan; Donald Trump Wins Michigan, Hawaii. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired March 09, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, March 9, 6 a.m. in the East. Mick is in New York. Alisyn and I are coming to you live from the University of Miami. The U. I'm going to do that all morning.

[05:59:56] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, good.

CUOMO: Bernie Sanders pulling off a big victory over Hillary Clinton in the Michigan primary. Clinton also winning big in Mississippi. But just days removed from targeting the Republicans -- that's what Clinton was saying -- now she is in a dogfight and trying to figure out how to match the mood of the country.

CAMEROTA: So on the Republican side, Donald Trump winning contests in Mississippi, Michigan, and Hawaii. We will speak live with Donald Trump in just a few minutes. Stick around for that.

Ted Cruz scoring a win, as well. But Marco Rubio got crushed. So what does that mean for his campaign? We have this race covered the way only CNN can. Let's begin with CNN anchor and human calculator, John Berman, on who won where and the latest delegate count.

Hi, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Alisyn.

Well, this is a surprise of the morning, isn't it, right? Bernie Sanders with the upset win in the state of Michigan. You see 20,000 votes separates them. About 1 percent, 1.5 percent there. A big surprise.

But Hillary Clinton, she had a big win of her own. Look at Mississippi. By more than 140,000 votes, a huge win for her there, which means she got the most delegates last night.

Let's look at the overall delegate math right now. She leads, more than 1,200 delegates for Hillary Clinton, just under 600 for Bernie Sanders. This does include super delegates, but even without super delegates, Hillary Clinton has more than a 200-delegate lead, which she extended last night.

Let's look at the Republican race right now. Donald Trump, he wins in Mississippi. Ted Cruz in second place there. Donald Trump wins in the state of Michigan.

Also Ted Cruz in second place there, edging out John Kasich, who badly wanted a second place finish for better. Ted Cruz, he did pick up his own win. He won the state of Idaho, 45 percent of the vote. Crucially, Marco Rubio below the delegate threshold here, he gets nothing out of Idaho.

And finally, in the wee hours of the morning, we called Hawaii for Donald Trump. He won the caucuses there.

So what does this mean in the delegate math? Donald Trump, he is out in front. He extended his lead, 461 delegates. You can see Ted Cruz at 360. Marco Rubio as of now hasn't picked up any delegates from last night, though that could change. He may get one or two.

Now, this all heads into next Tuesday. A huge voting day. You can see the big winner-take-all states. Florida, 49 delegates. Ohio, John Kasich's home state, 66. Those are both winner-take-all.

The Democratic side, it is all proportional, but again, Florida will be huge: 240 -- 214 delegates there. Also, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio, and North Carolina, as well -- Alisyn, Chris.

CAMEROTA: OK. Thanks so much for that. Well, Bernie Sanders beating Hillary Clinton in the Michigan primary. That is the big headline. How did the underdog pull off this upset. CNN senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is live in Cleveland for us with more. How do you explain this, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, there aren't more states that are more of a perfect economic laboratory, if you will,

And simply put, voters resonated to Bernie Sanders' message on the economy. They responded to his call for a political revolution and more anger. And voters also said that it's perhaps not time for this Democratic race to be over.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (voice-over): A surprise upset over Hillary Clinton in Michigan.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we have done is created the kind of momentum that we need to win.

ZELENY: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders clinching a narrow win, breathing new life into his campaign. In an expected but sweeping victory in the Deep South, Clinton easily taking Mississippi.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to be the president for the struggling and the striving, for people who have a dream.

ZELENY: Expanding her delegate lead after a large turnout of African-American voters. But it's the battleground state of Michigan, Sanders' biggest victory yet, that's keeping the Democratic fight alive.

SANDERS: The political revolution that we are talking about is strong in every part of the country. And frankly, we believe that our strongest areas are yet to happen.

ZELENY: Secretary Clinton projecting an air of confidence at a rally in Detroit just Monday night.

CLINTON: The sooner I could become your nominee, the more I could begin to turn our attention to the Republicans.

ZELENY: But failing to go campaign as aggressively as in other states and looking around the corner to the Republican fight ahead may have distracted her campaign. As Sanders held massive rallies on college campuses across the state...

SANDERS: If you come out to vote here in Michigan on primary day, we're going to win here in Michigan.

ZELENY: His support from younger voters and his economic message paying off in a big way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Now, if you wonder if Bernie Sanders expected this victory, here's a sign he did not. He had given a speech in Miami. He was already back in his hotel room, watching his returns come in with his family, when he found out that he was actually winning in Michigan. So a few hours later, he had to come back to a nearly empty small hotel room to address a few cameras and reporters there.

So Chris and Alisyn, certainly a surprise to Bernie Sanders but an even bigger surprise to Hillary Clinton.

[06:05:18] CUOMO: Well, look, and a nice example for Bernie Sanders of the difference sometimes between where people's heads are and pundits' heads are.

So Jeff, stick around. Let's bring in some other top-notch journalists. We have journalist and author David Gregory; CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston here, as well.

So, David, when we look at this, you had the preference poll show Hillary Clinton somewhere between 12 and 14 points up. But then, the turnout was low. And you saw independents and middle-class people who fall into that disaffected group of voters coming out strong. Do we see that as the tale of the tape?

DAVID GREGORY, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR: I think that's a big part of it. It's enthusiasm. It's also an open primary that allows not just Democrats to come out but independents and others to come out, and that's fueling Sanders.

But I think there's something that's pretty simple here about this environment. You know, we talk in elections about the desire for change. Change elections. This is something that's much more convulsive. There's so much more ferment out there. There's a brokenness to our politics and to government. And there are so many voters who want to see all that simply turned on its head. And I think that's what fuels a lot of what's going on with Bernie Sanders and with Donald Trump.

And here we're talking about the Democrats, you have voters in Michigan who really responded well to his message about how trade takes away jobs from people in the country, particularly in this part of the country. And this is government not delivering for the people it's supposed to serve. And so people are saying, "No. We're not going to take that anymore. We want something really different." And I think that part of the enthusiasm gap is what Clinton is dealing with.

CAMEROTA: So Maeve, that's interesting, because maybe she didn't calibrate the issues quite right. So trade, it turns out, it sounds like eclipsed the auto bailout and even the Flint water crisis.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. She made that surprise visit to Flint, really obviously was setting Michigan in her sights. But she went so hard on that auto bailout attack, and in some ways, that seems like it was out of tune with what voters were most concerned about, which is that the idea that trade is taking away jobs.

And clearly, that has been, you know, Bernie Sanders's message from the beginning. That is his brand. He gets that. He channels that anger. He understands it. And so she may have, you know, mis- calibrated a little bit. And obviously, her advisers were telling Jeff that last night, that perhaps that attack was a little bit awry, didn't go hard enough on the trade issues. She maybe is still getting some of the blame for her husband's policies on that front, and you know, clearly wasn't able to connect in the way that she wanted with those voters.

CUOMO: If you're talking about the studied voter, the auto bailout wouldn't work. Because if they did the research, they would say, "Well, she's really talking about TARP. She's really talking about the bank bill that he hated."

RESTON: Right.

CUOMO: The main auto bailout he voted for it.

RESTON: And we know their history in Michigan.

CUOMO: But that's one voter. Another voter is, David, you could make the point that she didn't get anything wrong. It's that she's not matching the mood of the country. She's not the face of discontent. That's what Bernie Sanders is, and that's playing bigger than people expected it to in Michigan. And the problem for her is Michigan, tell me if I'm wrong, it looks a lot like Ohio.

GREGORY: Yes, no, I think that's right. I mean, look, younger voters. A lot of college towns in Michigan. White working-class men. This is an area of strength for Sanders so far. He's showing that. Not so much for Hillary Clinton. That's also, I think, a warning sign for the general election if -- if she gets that far.

So I think that's exactly right. And again, I think all of this talk about her becoming inevitable again, that she had the nomination wrapped up, there's a lot of people who were very enthusiastically behind Bernie Sanders. Or, to your point, Chris, are still in the mood for big-time change. And they say, "Wait a minute. Not so fast. We're not ready to throw in the towel and just turn to the general election and cast aside our concerns." I think a lot of people view it that way.

CAMEROTA: Jeff, if Michigan is some sort of harbinger of what's to happen in Ohio, we do have some new polls just out nine minutes ago. Here's the new CNN/ORC poll. It shows, at the moment, I mean, again, the pulse has failed us. But here's the snapshot this morning of where Clinton is versus Sanders. She gets 63 percent in Ohio to his 33 percent. Is it possible that Ohio could have a big surprise in store?

ZELENY: There's no doubt that what happened in Michigan last night is going to bleed over here in Ohio. I talked to top Ohio Democrats who are aligned with her campaign, who said, "We don't believe any surveys, any polls going into this. The next week is going to -- on the ground here is going to determine who wins this contest."

But so interesting here, eight years ago Ohio is the place that helped save her, at least for a while, during her primary campaign with Barack Obama. It was the white working-class voters that were going to her side.

[06:05:08] So what her advisers are going to try and do over the next week or so is sort of get some of that back.

But David is absolutely right. The anger and the discontent, and the disruption that is going out there is siding with Bernie Sanders. And you talk to Democrat after Democrat out here in the field who say, "You know what? If Republicans are siding with Donald Trump, all that disruption there, why do we have to fall in line?

And that is also helping Bernie Sanders as well here. So yes, she has a mathematical lead here in pledged delegates. It is hard for Bernie Sanders to catch up to her. But this race is not settled yet. And a big concern for the Clinton campaign here is getting some of those Bernie Sanders supporters over to her side. She's going to be spending a lot of time here in Ohio between now and next Tuesday. And of course, that debate tonight so critical as she tries to still find a message that resonates with these voters.

CUOMO: It happens for another reason, as well. Right? Because look, Trump and Sanders are very different men. I'm not trying to draw an equation there. But he is a very good look. If she is lucky enough to get the nomination, it is a very good test of what she'll face in the general, Maeve. This is a populist message. This is a man who's channeling discontent. She's going to face that animal in another form, if Donald Trump gets the nomination. RESTON: Right. And I mean, she's -- this is all a momentum

game. She has showed a lot of weakness in terms of energizing and exciting those young voters.

I mean, you don't see the kind of fervor at the Democratic rallies that you do at Donald Trump rallies. His people are turning out for him. She's having -- her people are having to drive people to the polls last night. I mean, that is a big problem going into the fall.

And a lot of people will look at these two candidates and say who will be the strongest up against Donald Trump, you know, in a general election?

CAMEROTA: OK, panel, do stick around. We want to talk about what's going to happen on the Republican side, as well.

CUOMO: And I'll tell you, you couldn't plan it any better for you at home. Because what do you want to see after a tight race like this that kind of throws the suppositions on its head? Let's get a look at them. Let's get them to face off. It's going to happen tonight. They have the next debate here in Miami. CNN is going to simulcast the Univision Democratic presidential debate, 9 p.m. Eastern. You'll get to see them fresh off the results.

CAMEROTA: We are geniuses.

Now, on the Republican side, Donald Trump taking home wins in three states. Ted Cruz taking one state out west. And Marco Rubio's campaign, none. Are they in crisis mode after adding zero delegates?

CNN's senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, joins us now with more.

Hi, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Donald Trump, he is en fuego, sizzling like a Trump steak, you might say, coming off a not-so-Super Saturday.

Donald Trump loomed large over Mini Tuesday, winning the two big prizes of the night, Michigan and Mississippi. Also picked up Hawaii. Trump rolled to impressive wins. Both of those two big states responding to criticism that his support was softening after some controversial rhetoric over the last week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Only one person did well tonight, Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: It was another election-night victory lap for Donald Trump, serving up some red meat to the crowd in the form of Trump Steaks, along with Trump Wine and Trump Water. The GOP front-runner laughed off the "stop Trump" forces out to destroy his campaign.

TRUMP: I don't think I've ever had so many horrible, horrible things said about me in one week.

ACOSTA: The super PAC ads bombarding him on the airwaves...

TRUMP: I want to thank the special interests and the lobbyists, because they obviously did something to drive these numbers.

ACOSTA: ... to his top rivals, Ted Cruz...

TRUMP: Lying Ted. He holds the Bible high, and then he goes down and he puts the Bible down, and then he lies.

ACOSTA: ... and Marco Rubio, who failed to slow his momentum.

TRUMP: Hostility works for some people. It doesn't work for everybody.

ACOSTA: John Kasich ended up neck and neck with Cruz for second place in Michigan, bolstering his case that he should stay in this race.

KASICH: The people are beginning to reward a positive campaign. Next week we are going to win the state of Ohio.

ACOSTA: Cruz won Idaho, managing to perform better than Marco Rubio, who had another rough night. The Florida senator is still holding out hope for his home state.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe with all my heart that the winner of the Florida primary next Tuesday will be the nominee of the Republican Party.

As Cruz, again, is making the argument he's the GOP's best candidate to stop Trump.

CRUZ: What Donald Trump wants is he wants us divided. If we are divided, he wins the nomination and Hillary becomes president. If we unite, that ain't going to happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, Marco Rubio will have to recover quickly to start laying the groundwork for winning a comeback victory in his home state of Florida next week. That is when voters from Kasich's home state of Ohio, North Carolina, Missouri, Illinois, also are up for grabs as well.

A Trump sweep next week would all but lock up the nomination. And guys, there is one huge problem with the Trump -- stop Trump movement right now. It's not stopping him. It's not happening.

[06:15:08] CAMEROTA: Yes, that is a misnomer.

ACOSTA: You've got to -- if you want to stop him, you've got to stop him. It has not happened yet.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jim. Great. Thanks so much. CUOMO: Captain Obvious, much better looking in person. I know.

It is what it is, right? So we're going to break down why we saw what happened last night. Three more wins under Trump's belt. What does this mean for Ohio and Florida? The Republican front-runner will join us live in just minutes. Nobody gives a better take on Donald Trump than the man himself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know, if you think about it, every single person that's attacked me has gone down. OK? I don't want to mention names. Let's not mention names. OK? They're out. They're gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: A defiant Donald Trump clinching three more big wins last night and dismissing any speculation that the establishment efforts to stop him are working. And the winner-take-all contests begin next week.

So let's bring back David Gregory and Maeve Reston. We also want to bring in CNN political commentator and senior contributor for "The Daily Caller," Matt Lewis. Great to have all of you here.

David Gregory, let's talk about what happened over the past week. Some people thought that maybe Donald Trump's dominance was slipping a little bit. Last night proved not so.

GREGORY: Not so. I mean, he is still rolling. And he's rolling across the divide. Whether it's independents, Republicans, evangelicals, white working-class. He's doing a lot here.

And even, though, as Matt pointed out a few minutes ago, the delegate math is still, while certainly in his favor, it doesn't mean that he's going to necessarily get over the top by the convention. But he is rolling. And that is the point here.

And all those -- the negativity toward him, all the attacks from Mitt Romney, from others going after his businesses, do seem to miss the point. Which is, one, we can go strength on strength here in terms of rolling in the mud with you.

And, two, that a lot of his supporters are not looking to put all the data points together on whether his positions add up and all the rest.

What Donald Trump is saying is that he wants change, that there is a broken political system, that the government is broken. And that he can change that. And that there's something fundamentally flawed with our democratic system. That's the message that he's sending, and resonating with so many people.

So a lot of this opposition against him just hasn't hit the mark because it's more of a feeling that he's connecting with voters on. And I would add that there's still more time for the opposition to be mounted. I still think it was late and coming in a sustained way. And it has yet to really take hold.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CUOMO: All right. So I'm letting it sink in, because this is very significant. They tried to out-Trump Trump. And people said it was effective, that Marco Rubio had finally shown that you have to punch a bully in the nose.

The result, is this proof that you have to offer something better to beat Donald Trump, that you can't just say, "You're wrong to like Trump, and Trump is not who you think he is."

RESTON: Yes, absolutely. I mean, people are outraged by that suggestion that they should not be supporting him. You talk to voters at his rallies, he is channeling that anger, that anxiety about the economy, the slow growth economy, the fact that all of these people out there are working, you know, two jobs.

He has been able to connect with those people. He's been able to connect on the trade issues, which is why his win in Michigan was so significant. And I think that, you know, this is just -- the idea that you could sweep in here and dump -- hit him in the head with the opposition research book and all of a sudden have that work, it's just not going to happen. I mean, if they were really going to try to do a serious takedown the way they did with Mitt Romney, you needed start this months and months ago. Remember, those Bain attacks destroyed Mitt Romney and his credibility on business. But this is all coming so late, and Donald Trump has such a strong connection with these voters that it's just really not working.

CAMEROTA: Matt, how do you explain what happened with Marco Rubio? That he seems to have got zero delegates last night?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, huge setback, obviously, If you believe in momentum, then Rubio is toast, because he has no momentum.

I don't necessary live believe in momentum, though. I think that Rubio has a really good shot at winning Florida. I don't care what the polls say. I know he's down by double digits. I think it's going to really tighten. He has a really good shot in Florida. All 99 delegates. And then all of a sudden you have momentum.

CUOMO: Well, here's the latest poll. Here's the latest poll. He's down 16. What do you see that I am not seeing in front of my eyes?

LEWIS: Well, I think a couple things. First, polling can be wrong. We saw that in Michigan, where Hillary Clinton, who everybody knew was...

CAMEROTA: We've seen that many times.

CUOMO: That means we -- that means that the preference has to misstate or exaggerate something that will play out in reality. What would that be here in Florida?

LEWIS: Two things come to mind immediately. Obviously, he's the home state senator. A senator has an infrastructure. They have a turnout operation that Rubio won't replicate anywhere else other than Florida. And the other thing would be we have seen a trend where late deciders break towards Rubio and against Trump.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting. We have a poll that suggests that also. This is just out this hour, and this is the new CNN poll, in terms of the people in Florida still deciding, 21 percent have still not made up their minds.

LEWIS: And if they...

CAMEROTA; So if you think that they stand a better chance of going towards Rubio then Trump.

LEWIS: Absolutely. I think a disproportionate number of people, if the patterns, if the trends continue, will break toward Rubio.

And the other thing I'll say is I think Rubio has been playing a lot of games heretofore, playing the expectations game. That's off the table. What we seeing was a candidate who was desperate as was going to go to the voters and admit, "I need you to give me -- like to help me avoid this humiliating loss."

RESTON: He's already making that argument, that a vote for John Kasich and these other states is, you know, a vote for Donald Trump and that people are throwing away their vote. And I actually think that that's maybe not the best strategy for him. Because it does sound a little bit desperate.

[06:25:05] CUOMO: All right. So let's look at why that would be true. Humiliation, being humble can help sometimes.

CAMEROTA: But not humiliated.

CUOMO: But humiliated is different than being humble.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: Same root word, but other than that, it becomes very different. Sixty-six percent in our new numbers show it's time for him to drop out. Which takes us to the original point that Matt made, David.

CAMEROTA: If you lose Florida. If you lose Florida, you should drop out. All right. So this is make or break. But this still goes to Matt's premise. That's not about his weakness. That's about how resolute his support basis is. But who is to say late breakers will go for Rubio and not Cruz here in Florida?

GREGORY I can't say. I don't think any of us really can. But I think Matt makes an important point, which is, look, all of this opposition against Trump, the only way Trump gets stopped is if there's significant parts of the electorate in any state or a collection of states who say, wait a minute, this is wrong.

Now, we know that there's a reservoir of feeling for that. Look at the new "Wall Street Journal" poll that came out this morning that indicates that both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have very high negatives. Very high negatives. These are really flawed candidates, if you look at the general election possibilities.

So there's certainly sentiment out there. And yet, we haven't seen enough momentum for Rubio. And we see that Trump is bringing in disaffected voters who have not voted before.

CAMEROTA: All right. David, Maeve, Matt, thank you very much.

Tomorrow night we want to let you know that all the GOP rivals will face off in the final debate before the all-important Florida and Ohio primaries next week. Jack Tapper will moderate that. The CNN Republican debate, tomorrow night 8:30 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

CUOMO: Now, it always matters to hear from whoever had the big night right after. We have the first interview with Donald Trump coming up. Why does he think he won last night? What does he think the path forward is? What does he think about Marco Rubio? What does he think about Hillary Clinton, next on NEW DAY.

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