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Judge Suspends New Role for Ex-President in Brazil; Petraeus Set for Second Benghazi Interview; Dangerous Hail Storm Hits the South; Republican Party in Turmoil to Stop Trump; Graham: Cruz Is Best Hope to Stop Trump; Are the Presidential Candidates Wrong On Jobs; Could Clinton Tap Secy. Perez As Her Running Mate; How Do World Leaders See A Trump Presidency. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 18, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:31:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Chaos in Brazil as a federal judge suspends the appointment of a former president to a cabinet position. Lula da Silva was appointed to serve in the president's cabinet but the judge put that on hold to allow a corruption investigation involving da Silva to proceed. A secretly recorded phone call released this week appears to suggest the appointment was to keep the former president from being prosecuted.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Former CIA director, David Petraeus, will testify for a second time before the House Select Committee on Benghazi. A source saying Petraeus agreed to come back because the last interview ended abruptly and there were still more questions. The closed-door appearance will happen tomorrow on Capitol Hill. Democrats have argued this committee is a political witch hunt against Hillary Clinton.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: A dangerous hail storm wreaking havoc in the south. We've got to show you this (video playing). A driver to navigate ice pellets in Brookhaven, Mississippi. We're told a similar situation was seen in around Dallas. In fact, seven birds, including flamingos, pelicans, and ducks were killed at the Fort Worth Zoo. You can see that -- the size of baseballs. This is a significant nor'easter. It is now targeting the east coast this weekend. That means some snow in our forecast, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Oh, thank you for that warning, Michaela. Well, conservatives hoping to stop Donald Trump now plotting a third party unity ticket. Is it too late with 18 states already under Trump's belt? Joining us now is CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord, and senior advisor to the anti-Trump group, "Our Principles" PAC, Ken Blackwell. He's also the former mayor of Cincinnati and former Ohio treasurer, and Secretary of State. Gentlemen, great to have both of you here.

Ken, let me start with you. Can conservatives put forth a unity ticket that would beat Donald Trump?

KEN BLACKWELL, SENIOR ADVISOR, OUR PRINCIPLES PAC: Well, let me first say this whole nomination process, in the words of Yogi Berra, "ain't over till it's over," and there are many Republican voices yet to be heard. So we're going to run this thing out and we're going to shine a light on Donald Trump's inconsistent record of conservatism and the fact that he has not been a consistent Republican.

Now, we're going to prosecute that case and I think that what it's going to wind up in is an open convention, and that's going to be a process where it's weighed out.

CAMEROTA: Ken, let me just ask you before I get to Jeffrey. Who would that unity ticket be?

BLACKWELL: Well, that is yet to be seen. At the end of the day -- I was in the meeting yesterday. I didn't even want to entertain the notion of a third party, so I stayed away. The unity ticket will be a ticket that will be produced by this process. Now, it could be Ted Cruz and John Kasich. It could be Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. At the end of the day, the convention made up of grassroots Republicans --

CAMEROTA: Wait a minute. How could it be Donald Trump and -- but how could it be Donald Trump and Ted Cruz if the point is to beat Donald Trump?

BLACKWELL: Well, that is the point of those of us who basically believe that Donald Trump is not the one to lead the ticket. But if the people speak, but they don't speak in a decisive voice, meaning that Trump gets 1,237, then that's going to be decided by the delegates at the convention. So, look, that's why I didn't go the meeting. I want to, in fact, beat the Trump the old-fashioned way. That means having more delegates than he does.

CAMEROTA: OK.

BLACKWELL: That gives you a bigger voice at the convention.

CAMEROTA: Yes, OK. Jeffrey, what do you think of --

BLACKWELL: And, I think that can be done.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, they are -- this group of conservatives believes that this can be done. It is not too late. There can be some unity ticket. Maybe it's Cruz and Kasich or maybe it's somebody else than can beat Donald Trump. What do you say, Jeffrey?

[07:35:00]

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Ken is onto something and I've suggested this myself. I believe the unity ticket is Trump and Cruz. Look, what these people are trying to do, in essence, as I understand it, is elect Hillary Clinton, which I have no time for. I'm going to support the Republican nominee, period -- that's it. I mean, there isn't anybody in this original field of 17 candidates, who if they had emerged as the nominee, that I wouldn't have supported.

So, I think we need to just -- Ken is right. We need to play this out and Donald Trump will get the votes or he won't get the votes, but at the moment he's pretty far ahead and history shows that people who get this far ahead, frankly, in either party since John F. Kennedy -- both parties usually wind up winning nominations.

CAMEROTA: His selection, as we've said all morning, is making for a --

BLACKWELL: But, Alisyn --

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Ken.

BLACKWELL: Alisyn, I was just going to say there are a lot of moderating factors. Donald Trump, so far, has basically said I don't want to play with the establishment. I don't need their money. Here's the reality. His net worth is about $4.2 billion. About $3.3 billion is tied up in liquid assets. He cannot finance a general election campaign against Hillary Clinton. He's going to have to open up and negotiate. The art of the deal will be put to a test.

The reality is that he can't win an election if he de-energizes the conservative wing of the Republican conservative party. So, this is not over and the voices of about half of the nation haven't spoken yet. So let's not put this to bed prematurely.

CAMEROTA: OK, so before I get to my next point, Jeffrey, is that true? Does he not have enough money to finance the general election?

LORD: Well, my understanding is he's worth about $10 billion. I'll leave that to Donald Trump to state his financial situation.

CAMEROTA: All right, so let me -- so, the point that I wanted to make was all the strange allegiances and alliances that are developing, including Sen. Lindsey Graham. Senator Lindsey Graham, who himself had run for president and he had been a vocal critic of Ted Cruz. So let me just remind everyone what he had said about Sen. Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If you killed Ted Cruz on the floor of the Senate and the trial was in the Senate, nobody could convict you. If you nominate Trump and Cruz, I think you get the same outcome, you know. Whether it's death by being shot or poisoning, does it really matter? I was asked the hardest question in my political life -- do you agree with Donald Trump that Ted Cruz is the biggest liar in politics? Too close to call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Ken, yesterday Sen. Lindsey Graham announced he is banding together with Ted Cruz. That's how strongly he feels about beating Trump. What do you make of it?

BLACKWELL: Well, look, I remember George Bush called Ronald Reagan's economic plan voodoo economics, and nobody thought that Ronald Reagan would ever choose George Bush as a running mate. The reality is that all of this is coming out in the spin cycle -- in the wash. And I think that the most unifying factors will be one, that seat on the Supreme Court, and two, a defeat of Hillary Clinton.

CAMEROTA: OK.

BLACKWELL: Hillary Clinton is going to be a galvanizing force for Republicans. They'll get it together at the convention.

CAMEROTA: Just a few seconds, Jeffrey. Last word -- go.

LORD: Alisyn, when you and I and Chris were in Las Vegas and I did the morning show with you, I saw Lindsey Graham shortly thereafter -- minutes afterwards. And Lindsey Graham personally told me that he could never support Ted Cruz, and he would, instead, support Donald Trump. So, I'll just leave it at that. What we're hearing is the opposite and I think that says everything you need to know, apparently, about Lindsey Graham.

CAMEROTA: And about Las Vegas. Sometimes things stay in Las Vegas.

LORD: And sometimes they don't.

CAMEROTA: And sometimes they don't. Jeffrey, Ken, thank you. Great to talk to you. Let's go to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn. The presidential hopefuls on both sides of the aisle are criticizing trade deals and job losses, but are they overstating that problem to win votes? Labor Secretary Tom Perez joins us live in the studio. We'll ask him that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: China has taken millions of jobs, thousands of factories. What they've done to us -- it's actually -- I thought about the other day. It's the greatest theft in the history of the world.

BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have lost, since 2001, almost 60,000 factories. Can you imagine that? Sixty-thousand factories, millions of good paying jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Just a look both sides there, and what you hear is somewhat of a unity cry when it comes from what's going on with jobs is that we are in desperate times. Manufacturing jobs are all but gone. Factories gone by the tens of thousands. It really sounds depressing, but is it true? Joining us now is the U.S. Secretary of Labor, Tom Perez.

TOM PEREZ, SECRETARY OF LABOR: Good morning.

CUOMO: It's great to have you, Mr. Secretary.

PEREZ: Great to be here.

CUOMO: So, if you don't know the answer to this, nobody does. What you just heard from both sides of the aisle, what is the reality?

PEREZ: Sure.

CUOMO: Factories, jobs --

PEREZ: Sure.

CUOMO: -- China?

PEREZ: You know, the reality is in the three months before President Obama took office this economy hemorrhaged 2.3 million jobs, and now we've had the longest streak of private sector job growth in our nation's history. Six years in a row, 14.3 million jobs. There were seven jobseekers for every job opening in the depths of the recession -- now there's 1.4 job seekers.

Last year was the best year ever in auto sales and, you know, there's a wind at our back. The unfinished business that was to make sure that the rising tide lifts all the boats, but not the yachts. So, there's a little bit of an Eeyore caucus out there of folks who are doomsayers and they don't exactly give all the facts.

CUOMO: All right, so let's unpack it a little bit.

PEREZ: Sure.

CUOMO: How about the 60,000 factories and the perception that the U.S. used to be the lead manufacturer in the world and now is not?

PEREZ: Well, I'll tell you. You look at manufacturing growth over the last six years. Last year was not a good year and that's because of the strong dollar and the global headwinds. But before that, the first six years of the Obama administration were the best six years we've had since the 90's.

I was just up in Buffalo, New York, my hometown, hollowed out when I was a kid -- a lot of the steel jobs. And I was at the SolarCity plant. It's going to be the largest solar panel manufacturing facility in the western hemisphere. And so, you see that sort of renaissance. Everywhere I go in my jobs, whether it's Ohio, western New York, other places.

[07:45:00]

CUOMO: Exceptions or the rule, because the rebuttal is -- yes, but there's no question that U.S. companies are moving abroad more than they're staying at home.

PEREZ: Well, actually, you talk to U.S. companies and you see the interviews and surveys. U.S. companies are bullish about bringing business home, and they're bullish for a number of reasons. We have the best workforce in the world. Now, with the cost of oil being so low, it makes it -- cost of energy

-- it makes it easier to produce products here. And we have legal stability. We don't have the I.T. theft that you see in China. So, insourcing is really the order of the day and outsourcing is becoming increasingly the word of the past.

CUOMO: Have we lost 60,000 factories?

PEREZ: You know, Donald Trump is an exaggerator in chief.

CUOMO: Bernie said it also. They both used the number.

PEREZ: Well, you know, again, we have had a remarkable evolution in our economy. We certainly lost some manufacturing in the 70's and in the 80's --

CUOMO: Sixty-thousand factories worth?

PEREZ: I don't know that it's 60,000 factories. But you know what? You look at where we are now and where we've come, Chris, and again, places like Buffalo, place likes Ohio. Youngstown, Ohio -- I was in Ohio last week -- they're coming back as well. And the grit and determination of American workers is remarkable and I've seen it in all of my travels.

I always bet on American workers. I don't bet against American workers, and nor does the president. He's always with American workers. That's why his investments in the auto industry, for instance, have helped to catalyze this renaissance in auto sales.

CUOMO: The flip side of being on the way back is that that means that you are not where you want to be, and I think you see that resonating all over the country where people feel that they're not making the money they need to make. That wages aren't going up.

PEREZ: Sure.

CUOMO: Sure, you've got very wealthy doing very well, but underemployment is a continuing drag on the economy. Wages not being up in a real way for -- some say 10, some say 30 years. Isn't that part of the picture as well?

PEREZ: Sure. I mean, there's two things, I think, that are very accurate. One, we've made undeniable progress and two, we have undeniable unfinished business. And that unfinished business is to make sure that the rising tide lifts all the boats and not just the yachts. And for too many people, they're working 50 hours and they're getting their food at the food pantry or they haven't had a meaningful raise in years.

And the thing to keep in mind is this president is all about raising the minimum wage. Making sure that if you work overtime you get extra. Making sure that we're investing in skills so that people can compete for the jobs of today and tomorrow. And the same folks in the Republican Party, for instance, who say we have all these challenges, their remedy is the same trickle-down economics that got us in this mess to begin with.

People say on the Republican side a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for America. I mean, that's unconscionable. Go spend time with the fast-food worker I met in Detroit who slept in her car the night before I met her because she can't make ends meet. Slept in her car with her three kids. So, the remedies that I hear from the Eeyore caucus on the right -- those are the same remedies that are going to get us right back into the trouble we got into in the Bush administration.

CUOMO: So, Secretary, I can't help but note that there is a certain political inflection to these arguments you are making right now. There is speculation that you may find your way into consideration on Hillary Clinton's ticket. Don't shake your head like you haven't heard this before. Is it something you would consider?

PEREZ: You know, I'll tell you what I consider every day and that's I've got 309 days left until the weekend and every single day I'm out there trying to make sure we build shared prosperity. That is my singular focus in this job. This is an unmitigated privilege to be able to help people get back on their feet and help businesses grow, and that's my focus.

CUOMO: Counting days -- is that a sign that you are looking for exit --

PEREZ: No.

CUOMO: -- and, therefore, will not openly deny that you would consider a place on Hillary's ticket?

PEREZ: Well, as Muhammad Ali said, you don't count the days, you make the days count, and those 309 days left -- that's exactly what we're trying to, is make these days count.

CUOMO: And Muhammad Ali was known for giving definitive answers to straight questions. If she were to ask you to consider it, would you consider it?

PEREZ: Oh, please. You know what? I have one focus right now, Chris, and that is my day job. And I love my day job because I meet so many people who are kicked to the side of the road in the recession and are coming back. And I meet other people who aren't yet back, and that's what gets me up at night -- gets me up in the morning, I should say.

CUOMO: Well, certainly this morning you got up for us. Secretary Perez, thank you very much. Appreciate the dedication, and not giving a no -- no no for the Perez about what's going to happen going forward. Secretary, thank you for being with us.

PEREZ: Always a pleasure.

CUOMO: Alisyn --

[07:50:00] CAMEROTA: A no-no. We know those. We know those. Thank you, Chris. Well, Donald Trump has plenty to say about the U.S. relationship with other countries, so how do those countries view Donald Trump? We'll discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:54:14]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am already receiving messages from leaders. I'm having foreign leaders ask if they can endorse me to stop Donald Trump. And I think whoever goes up against Donald Trump better be ready, and I feel I am the best prepared and ready candidate to take him on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Hillary Clinton there at a CNN town hall Sunday, saying foreign leaders already voicing concerns and reservations about Donald Trump. Trade deals, military ties -- so much at stake. How are world leaders seeing the prospects of president Trump? Peter Beinart is a CNN political commentator and an associate professor at City University in the city of New York.

We thought we'd bring you back and you can school us on some things. So many countries around the world sounding off. Some are being a little reserved in their statements, but I'm going to go with Mexico not being so reserved. This is former president Vicente Fox.

[07:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: I declare I'm not going to pay for that f***ing wall. He should pay for it. He's got the money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: The most colorful response, but other Mexican leaders have agreed. How is this going to affect our neighbors to the south and our relationships here?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, the Mexicans are not happy. There have been references by former Mexican presidents that Donald Trump is Hitler. Massive sale of Donald Trump pinatas, both in the United States southwest and in Mexico.

There's going to be a major problem. The U.S. and Mexico have to cooperate on a great number of things -- trade, drug trafficking, undocumented immigration. And the problem in terms of America's reputation in Mexico if Donald Trump were president -- it boggles the mind.

PEREIRA: The Chinese are watching. Obviously, we know what a trade partner they are. This is probably second on the list of where the hits keep on coming. He keeps accusing China of cheating the United States. Look at how they're responding. This is the English state- run newspaper, the Global Times opinion piece yesterday, calling Trump a rich narcissist and inflammatory candidate.

They suggested that he enter the race as a clown to attract more voters' attention. "Even if Trump is simply a false alarm, the impact has already left a dent." That's the question -- is not just how it is being received now by world leaders, but what kind of impact does this have long-term? Is this going to linger?

BEINART: The China editorial was fascinating because one of the struggles that the China and the U.S. have been in for many years is about the legitimacy of democracy. China has tried in various ways to say you know what, democracy's not really all that great. Our form of authoritarian capitalism is stronger. So, they used Donald Trump and his buffoonery as an example of the fact that this is not the best way to choose leaders.

And I think this points to the larger problem, is that if Donald Trump were to be elected -- if he were to continue to act that way he was, it would erode the prestige of our political system.

PEREIRA: Now, here's one that I think a lot of people are trying to figure out -- is this relationship with Russia. Trump has repeatedly called Putin a strong leader despite all sorts of criticism from his opponents. And he's, actually, released this ad. Why don't we play it so you can hear it in his own words well?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Dog barking, laughter)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: And not so much in his own words, but this is put out by the Trump campaign. It's interesting -- a spokesman for Putin put out this response. "We regard it negatively" -- responding to the ad -- "the demonization of Russia and everything connected to Russia is, unfortunately, an obligatory part of an American election campaign." This is a precarious situation at best, given the relationship between the U.S. and Russia.

BEINART: Right, the Russians didn't like this ad, but what's interesting is there has been a little bit of mutual admiration society between Trump and Putin.

PEREIRA: Kind of hard to understand at times, isn't it?

BEINART: Well, yes, although when you think about it Trump always says that he likes strong leaders. He seemed to, at one point in 1990, suggest that the Chinese were right for putting down the Tiananmen massacre, so there's this hint of authoritarianism in the sense that he likes strong leaders even if they break a few eggs in the process. PEREIRA: Last, but not least, we have to look at how the Muslim world is responding and this is obviously a lot of response to him saying that Muslims are no longer welcome in the United States, and even saying he would ban them outright.

This is from Saudi Arabia's royal family, Prince Al-Waleed and he tweets "@realDonaldTrump -- You are a disgrace not only to the GOP but to all America. Withdraw from the U.S. presidential race as you will never win." The reaction from the Muslim world probably no surprise.

BEINART: Extraordinarily negative. There was another tweet from Prince Talal, the richest man in the Arab world -- a Saudi prince who said to Donald Trump you know, you're going after Muslims but I had to bail you out twice when you were bankrupt. So, there's a little bit of an irony her. Donald Trump demonizes Muslims in the United States, but in his business dealings he's actually been often quite reliant on people in the Muslim world, historically.

PEREIRA: It proves this is an issue overall worldwide. We're going to have to address it more here on CNN and we'll talk with you more about it. Peter, always a pleasure.

BEINART: Thank you.

PEREIRA: Thank you so much. Following a lot of stories. Is the stop Trump movement a bust? Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't think you can say that we don't get it. I think you'd have riots.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's time to still prevent a Trump nomination.

GRAHAM: His campaign is built on xenophobia, race-baiting and religious bigotry.

TRUMP: You would have problems like you've never seen before.

REP. PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is more likely to become an open convention than we thought.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:Being president is a serious job.

SANDERS: The American people are prepared to vote strongly against Trump.

CLINTON: I think we've done a really good job. Those who say we haven't are not paying attention.

OBAMA: Mr. Trump will not be president. I have a lot of faith in the American people.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The dangerous drive to Aleppo. Four airstrikes have hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're saying that the plane is in the sky. We can hear it. Everybody out. Let's go, let's go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)