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Trump Ignites Firestorm Over Abortion Comment; Authorities Find "Unprecedented Amount of Weapons' in Raid. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 31, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LEMON: -- taking it one step further, though, accusing Trump of damaging the pro-life movement. How will Trump's evolving stance on abortion impact the race?

[07:00:08] Our coverage begins with CNN's Phil Mattingly, live in Milwaukee.

Good morning, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Donald.

Donald Trump has really walked himself into and out of no shortage of politically dangerous situations. Over the course of his campaign so far, perhaps none as fraught with risk as what he's currently dealing with. And he seems to have recognized that, doing something that Donald Trump almost never does: backtracking multiple times.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: This is not something you dodge.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump smack in the center of another controversy, this time abortion. In a town hall with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, the frontrunner stating that women who get abortions should face, quote, "some sort of punishment," if the procedure were to be outlawed.

MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman?

TRUMP: Yes, there has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents, ten years, what?

TRUMP: That I don't know. That I don't know.

MATTHEWS: Why not?

MATTINGLY: The backlash, fast, furious and bipartisan. Trump's rivals on both sides of the abortion issue quick to pounce and reject the notion.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But of course, women shouldn't be punished. I don't think that's an appropriate response, and it's a difficult enough situation than to try to punish somebody.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald's comments, they were unfortunate. They were wrong, and I strongly disagree.

MATTINGLY: Anti-abortion groups and Democratic presidential candidates all lining up to criticize the comments.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): When he was asked whether women should be punished, he said yes, and that is absolutely unacceptable. It is outrageous.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To punish a woman for having an abortion is beyond comprehension.

MATTINGLY: Amid the firestorm, Trump's campaign uncharacteristically backtracking, quickly issuing this statement, attempting to clarify his remarks. Quote, "This issue is unclear and should be put back into the states for determination. Like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."

Within a few hours, another statement, a complete reversal of the first, saying, if abortion were made illegal, quote, "the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. The woman is a victim in this case, as is the life in her womb."

His son coming to his defense, tweeting, "Be fair. Was asked if it was illegal, should there be punishment? Shouldn't there be consequences for breaking laws?"

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Now, these comments come just a day after Donald Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, was charged with misdemeanor simple battery for grabbing a female reporter.

Now, you put those two issues together and you look at the broader numbers, guys. Donald Trump facing 70 percent-plus disapproval ratings across female voters in the United States in a series of polls. These two issues certainly aren't going to help that case, and this all coming just five days before the crucial Wisconsin primary. The latest polling out of this state: Donald Trump, trailing Ted Cruz by nine. So a lot of ground to make up and a lot of damaging issues to try and deal with, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Phil, thank you for all that background.

And here to discuss: CNN commentator and legal analyst, Mel Robbins; and CNN political commentator and former White House political director for Ronald Reagan, Jeffrey Lord. Jeffrey supports Donald Trump. Nice to see both of you this morning.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Aly.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, Jeffrey. I want to start with you. How could Donald Trump have taken a position that is so far outside the mainstream in terms of criminalizing abortion and then criminalizing the women who get them?

LORD: Yes, you know, No. 1, I think he made a mistake, and I think he has corrected his mistake. But you know, I do find it very fascinating. Senator Cruz was in Iowa, I believe, in January 2015. I was just looking at this on Mediaite, and there was a clip from C- SPAN. And he is asked this exact same question, do you punish the women or the doctors, and he dodged.

He did make the good point, however, that the media is never asking President Obama why he voted for the amendment when he was in the Illinois state legislature...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LORD: ... that allowed doctors to take the life of a child that was born during an abortion.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey...

LORD: That was never asked, and he's suggesting a bias. But I'm also...

CAMEROTA: Look, it's complicated, Jeffrey, I think.

LORD: He was asked this exact same question.

CAMEROTA: We hear you.

LORD: He dodged.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I understand, but we're just talking about Donald Trump right now, because that's what happened last night.

LORD: Well, it's the context.

CAMEROTA: It is interesting context. Ted Cruz may have something to answer for, and perhaps President Obama.

However, Donald Trump yesterday had three different positions. First he said, yes, you have to punish the woman. Then he changed it and said, "Well, it's up for states" -- a few hours later, "It's actually for the states to decide." Then he came around to, "Well, actually, if it were banned it would just be the doctors that were punished."

Mel, is this him clarifying or making the issue actually cloudier?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: Alisyn, first of all, with all due respect to Jeffrey, I'm not surprised he's voting for Donald Trump, because Trump's overwhelming support is older white men. The question that I have in the wake of this is what's it going to take to have the other 30 percent of the woman that are not offended by Trump, not just by this, Alisyn, but this is, I think, just the jump the shark moment where every woman in America realizes, "Hey, this is a guy that isn't making a mistake. He's actually saying what he believes."

[07:05:31] Everyone keeps saying, "Oh, it's too bad he doesn't stop and think." I'm really glad he's not stopping and thinking at this point, because at some point every single woman needs to look themselves in the mirror and say, "Is this the kind of person that I really want to be committed to for the next four years, because if a boy were talking like this I sure as heck would not let my daughter date him. So why the hell would I want my country to be represented by him?"

LORD: No. Alisyn...

ROBBINS: So I don't believe this is, you know, a mistake. I believe that this is exactly what he thinks. I believe the fact that he keeps using words like "bimbos" and "fat pigs," and I could go on and on and on...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

ROBBINS: ... with the number of disgusting thing that he has said about women, but enough is enough. I once said he was going to be the Republican frontrunner. I now take it back. I once said the only woman that could stop him is Hillary Clinton. I believe that Trump just killed his own campaign and what's going to stop him is the women of America.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey.

LORD: Well, I mean, I'm startled at the sexism on display here. I mean, what does -- what does my age or my skin color have to do with this? I mean, that's a pretty startling approach to take. But I must say, that's typical of liberalism, where everything is...

ROBBINS: Hardly. It matches the polls, Jeffrey, and you know it.

CAMEROTA: Look, look, but let's not engage in ad hominum attacks of each other. But I do, to Mel's point, Jeffrey, I do want to bring up the polls. Because this does show how all registered female voters feel about Donald Trump in the most recent CNN/ORC poll: 73 percent unfavorable.

I believe we have one that shows how Republican women feel about him, as well. Maybe we can pull that up. Something like 40 -- 40- something percent unfavorable. So Jeffrey, what does he do? I mean, obviously -- well, I shouldn't say obviously. It appears that yesterday's comments won't help. What does he do to win over these...?

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: Well, he does have to...

CAMEROTA: ... he will need to win? LORD: You know, he does have a record with women. I mean, I have to

say this entire Trump organization, he has employed woman after woman after woman and put them in high executive positions and paid them sky-high salaries because he treats them equally. It was a woman who was responsible for the construction of Trump Tower in a day and age when women didn't have those opportunities.

CAMEROTA: OK. But you think that those things -- I mean, those things in his own company, you think, will be big enough statements that women will overlook...

LORD: Well, because...

CAMEROTA: ... what he has said about abortion and other things?

LORD: Aly, when you look at the polls, and we looked at -- I remember it clearly from this summer, abortion was way, way, way, way down the list of issues that were important to women.

CAMEROTA: That's true. I mean, abortion is not in the top three or five of what voters say...

LORD: I mean, this is the media take, to some degree.

CAMEROTA: However he is way outside of the mainstream, because the vast majority of people, according to the latest CNN/ORC poll, in terms of whether they believe abortion should remain legal now, the majority, 82 percent, believe it should remain legal.

Some believe it's in certain circumstances; some believe in all circumstances. But they feel that it should remain legal.

LORD: And -- and Republicans generally have made with the exceptions of the three exceptions there, as Ronald Reagan did, for what, rape, incest and the life of the mother.

CAMEROTA: Sure, but right there, we're pulling up the Republican voters, Jeffrey. And only 21 percent of Republicans feel it should be illegal under all conditions, which is what Donald Trump at first, when he said it was important to ban it...

LORD: Right.

CAMEROTA: ... felt like he was saying.

So Mel, but you know, we've seen this -- we've seen a firestorm before with Donald Trump. Do you think that this is different, Mel, than in previous things that he has said that have gotten attention?

ROBBINS: You know, I really do think it's different. And, you know, Jeffrey's probably going to be surprised if he looks back at everything that I've written about Donald Trump since July of 2015. I was the first commentator to explain his appeal. I was the first person to say that it was over; he'd be the -- the Republican nominee. I have written largely explaining why he had such broad appeal. But I think systematically what's happened, Alisyn, is that his true

colors are coming through over and over and over again. And I agree with Jeffrey on the point that I don't think that this is necessarily about abortion.

Look, women's right to abortion is under attack in this country where you've got 28 states that require waiting periods, 14 states that require women two clinic visits, which make it more expensive, harder to get daycare, you know, if you have kids. So women's right to choose is under attack in this country as it is.

I don't think it's the critical issue. I think the critical issue is his consistent tone when it comes to women. Why is he dragging Heidi

Cruz into his -- his catfight with Ted Cruz? And when Anderson asked him about it at the town hall in Wisconsin, what was his response? "Well, he started it."

And a lot of us feel like the woman in Wisconsin who said the other night on CNN, "I wish you could be more like his sons." Hey, ladies, what you've got to remember is you're not going to be voting for his sons for president. You're stuck with him for the next four years, so listen very closely to what he's actually saying.

[07:10:21] CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, given that what he initially said before he clarified it in the next two statements about banning abortion and criminalizing it for women, do you think that this will hurt his campaign?

LORD: Well, I don't think it was the best thing to say, if that's what you want me to say, yes.

CAMEROTA: No, just going forward, if you think it will hurt his campaign.

LORD: But you know, well, I mean, he's behind in Wisconsin at the moment and maybe he will lose Wisconsin. But I think, you know, this is one of these media dust-ups that will disappear. There are other issues along the way. This is not the most important issue out there, as we know.

So I just think -- I think he is in the mainstream here. He's exactly where Senator Cruz is. He's exactly where most Republicans are.

CAMEROTA: He's not exactly where most Republicans are, Jeffrey. He's -- most Republicans, as I just showed you from the polls, do not believe that it should be -- that abortion should be outlawed and that the women should be criminalized.

LORD: Well, he doesn't believe it either, Aly. I mean, you've seen the statement, so...

ROBBINS: I feel, Alisyn, I feel that a lot of the liberal media really misunderstood and was out of touch with the emotions and the issues that really mattered to the base that is supporting Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

ROBBINS: And that's how they missed the search. And I believe that there's a lot of conservatives that are supporting Donald that are 100 percent out of touch with the way that women expect to be spoken to, with the way that they expect to be respected and that they have been appalled and disgusted...

LORD: But that...

ROBBINS: ... by the behavior that they've seen ramping up, the most senior ranking member of the GOP that's a woman in Congress.

CAMEROTA: Guys, we have to leave it there. There is so much to talk about. Obviously, we'll be dealing with this throughout the program. Jeffrey, Mel, thank you.

LORD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: I appreciate you coming on to discuss this this morning.

ROBBINS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Don.

LEMON: There's some Democrats who are running for president, as well.

CAMEROTA: Are there?

LEMON: Yes. Surprising. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are running neck and neck in Wisconsin ahead of Tuesday's primary. The candidates also focused on an even bigger prize, and that in New York. Can Clinton bring out Bill Clinton as a new poll shows that Clinton has a double-digit lead?

CNN's Joe Johns live in Washington for the very latest for us.

Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Don.

Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders both have strong ties to New York. She's the former senator from that state. And at least for now, the home state advantage appears to go to Hillary Clinton, according to the latest Quinnipiac poll. It shows Hillary Clinton up 12 points over Bernie Sanders in New York.

Important to say both of the Democrats in the race appear to have an edge against Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, as well. In the hypothetical match-up with the Republican frontrunner, Hillary Clinton leading by about 20 points, Bernie Sanders doing even better against Trump by about 24 points.

But when you take a look at the snapshot of the race between the two Democrats in the state of Wisconsin, which votes on Tuesday, it's an entirely different story. A Marquette University poll shows Bernie Sanders with a very narrow lead that's within the margin of error. And Wisconsin is the next big state to vote, followed by Wyoming, then New York, with its huge haul of delegates, 247 delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

Bernie Sanders has been pushing hard to debate Hillary Clinton in New York before the primary there on April 19, and that poll suggests he may have to do something to change the dynamic of the race before the big day -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Joe, thank you very much for that.

Meanwhile, we do have some breaking news for you, this out of India. At least 14 people are dead and dozens more hurt after a bridge that was under construction collapsed. You can see the aftermath here. This happened in a busy commercial area. These are live pictures right now of people trying to deal with the aftermath. This is east of -- this is north of Calcutta in Eastern India. Officials tell CNN 62 people have been pulled out of the rubble with injuries. The Indian army now deployed to help rescue operations. We will continue to update you on this developing story.

LEMON: Obviously, we'll be following that one.

There's also new details emerging this morning about the suspect charged in the foiled terror plot in France. Authorities uncovering a shocking find in a raid of his apartment. CNN senior European correspondent Jim Bittermann live for us in Paris with the very latest.

Hello, Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don.

Yes, in fact, Reda Kriket, when he was picked up last week had in his possession a key to an apartment in a northern region suburb, and when they checked that apartment, they found five Kalashnikovs, bomb-making materials, a machine gun, six handguns -- seven handguns, five false passports, all kinds of things to suggest that he was planning an attack.

The prosecutor said it was an attack that could take place at any moment. But he also had a photo of somebody else, a guy named Barri, Anis Barri, who was picked up in Rotterdam in Holland, and they searched his apartment, and they found 6,000 rounds, according to media reports, 6,000 rounds of ammunition for all that weaponry that Kriket had down in Paris. So they suspect they were plotting something. What they don't know, but it could have been put into action at any time, according to Paris prosecutors -- Alisyn.

[07:15:27] CAMEROTA: Jim, thank you very much for that update out of Paris.

We have some heart-stopping video to show you out of Florida. Skydivers colliding midair and then tumbling to the ground. The wing suit jumper here, this is -- his name's Sebastian Leal. He was knocked unconscious. He fell more than 14,000 feet. His GoPro camera was knocked loose. That's what you just saw spinning out of control there.

Luckily, Leal's reserve chute deployed right before he landed, but he fractured his spine in four places and at the moment, he is paralyzed from the waist down. But he says he's confident he'll walk again and jump again. The other skydiver, we're told, is also OK, survived.

LEMON: I hope that he can walk again, and jump again.

CAMEROTA: They love it. I get enough adrenaline just sitting on this set, just sitting still right here.

LEMON: Yes. But lucky for him. Again, he's still alive, and the reserve chute...

CAMEROTA: Yes. Remarkable.

LEMON: Unbelievable. Good luck to him.

New polls out this morning could signal Republicans are headed for a contested convention in Cleveland. Why is that? Our panel is going to break the numbers down for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:35] LEMON: And we're counting down because it's five days away from the crucial primary in Wisconsin and setting the stage for the next phase of the presidential race.

Here's a new poll. It's out of Wisconsin. It shows Ted Cruz leading Donald Trump by ten points. Can he hold the lead?

Let's bring in now CNN politics executive editor, Mr. Mark Preston, and CNN senior political analyst and senior editor of "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein. Heavy hitters here. Titles in front of their names.

Mark Preston, I'm going to go to you first. A new poll out of Wisconsin shows Ted Cruz holding a 10-point lead over Trump. Cruz's support -- this is the important part -- it has jumped, Mark, from 19 percent support in February to 40 percent support now. If Trump loses Wisconsin, does that tell you that his momentum has stalled?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, here's the problem not only with that poll. Professor Brownstein can probably speak more to this. But the fact is right now, Don, if you look at the numbers and go deep into the numbers, you see that Donald Trump now has lost the lead amongst Republican voters who do not have a high school or rather a college degree. Right? Now that has been really his strongest support, as we've seen through this election cycle so far.

What's interesting about the momentum question is that we're focused on New York after Wyoming. However, there are two contests that occur right before that, one in North Dakota, one in Wyoming. There's 13 delegates on the board in North Dakota, and there are 14 delegates on the board in Wyoming. These are delegates, once they're selected they do not have to dedicate themselves to a candidate. So let's say that Ted Cruz does win in Wyoming. Can you manage the momentum that he could go into those two states, try to pick up those delegates, try to get their commitments.

You've already seen Donald Trump get upset by what's happened in Louisiana as Cruz has made a play on delegates there.

LEMON: Very interesting, as Mark is reading into those numbers, Ron. So what does that say, when he says, you know, about voters who don't have a high school education, that's Donald Trump's core? Is he saying Donald Trump is losing his -- some of his base support?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think if you look inside this Wisconsin poll, it is an important poll because it does sketch out the coalition that could be emerging against Donald Trump in the latter stages of this race.

If you go back to the beginning, you look at the analysis that have been done of all 20 exit polls, in the states that have had exit polls, as Mark suggested, Trump has run less well among women and college graduates to begin with than he has among men and those without college degrees.

What this poll shows is further deterioration among the groups. In the Wisconsin poll he's winning only about one-fifth of women. He's winning only about one-fifth of college graduates in Wisconsin. He is behind not only Cruz but Kasich with both groups, about 20 points behind among women, about 25 points behind among college graduates.

And what that does suggest is that the serial controversies of the last few weeks, really extraordinary period that he had with his answer to Jake Tapper on David Duke right before Super Tuesday has taken a toll on him, particularly with the groups that are most resistant to him to begin with.

Now, whether that's enough to stop him, given how far he is ahead, and given the home-court advantage he has coming up in the New York metropolitan area is another question, but I think there's no doubt that resistance is hardening at a point where, for previous frontrunners, the party had actually been going in the other direction and consolidating.

LEMON: Hey, Mark, we -- read these numbers for me, OK? What's behind these numbers? Because the Wisconsin poll also shows that, among all registered voters, 55 percent would feel very uncomfortable with Trump as president. That's more than any other candidate. So what does that tell you?

PRESTON: Exactly what Ron just said. Because what we're seeing here in the primaries is certainly continuing into the general election.

Listen, at this point now, Donald Trump has to reassess his campaign and have to say to himself, "Do I need to do a 180? Do I need to be more of a populist to everybody and not just trying to reach out to that coalition that has gotten me to this point in the primary election?"

The bottom line is that Donald Trump still is in the pole position to win the Republican primary, but after the Republican primary, it's a whole new election. And if Donald Trump wants to win the general election in November, he has to reach out to voters, independents, those on the edges to win.

And Don, the comments that he made last night regarding women and being penalized for having an abortion is certainly not going to help him.

LEMON: Self-awareness is very important, Mark and Ron. Ron, to you, I should say. It's very important. So does he realize, because if you listen to the Trump spokespeople and if you listen to him, he doesn't think that he's had a bad couple of days. He thinks "The New York Times" interview was great. He thinks that the information is clarified about abortion. He is standing by Lewandowski. So he -- is he even aware of how bad his numbers are and how bad the last couple of days have been for him?

[07:25:13] BROWNSTEIN: I don't think he believes it. I think he's in a dynamic which I call, actually, in a column today, in "The Atlantic," the Trump treadmill, which is that part of -- a key to his success with the voters who are attracted to him is the idea that he will say things that others will not, and he will not back down under pressure. That is proof to them that he is not a typical politician, that he will fight by whatever means necessary to reverse all the trends in American life...

LEMON: That's only appealing to so much of the electorate.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Exactly. That pressures him to constantly double down. But the price are these extraordinarily unfavorable ratings among everybody else.

Even in this Wisconsin poll yesterday in the general election, he's looking at 80 percent roughly unfavorables among women, college graduates, millennials and 88 percent among African-Americans.

So basically, what you're seeing is Trump is deepening his hold on his piece of the Republican Party at the price of narrowing the range of his support not only in the general electorate, but in the last CNN poll, Don, two-thirds of Republicans who are not voting for him said they had an unfavorable opinion of him. That's remarkable within your own party.

So I think part of his problem is that he's looking at these very toxic general election numbers that are making elected officials in the party very uneasy about what it would be, for example, to the Senate. Republicans are defending seven seats in states that Obama carried twice. And I think that adds another head wind to him as he's battling this deterioration, particularly among women and college- educated Republicans.

LEMON: Ron, Mark, thank you very much.

Over to you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. Donald Trump, as we've been discussing under fire from really all sides for his comments on abortion, so what happened inside the headquarters of Planned Parenthood yesterday? We'll find out next.

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